I can understand wanting to boost the adoption of Xiph codecs, but I think
restricting the directory to vorbis streams only will not help this endeavour.
I can imagine it will just piss a lot of people, including myself, and give Xiph
a bad name.
I get very few listeners of my AAC+ stream now since this occured. The
restriction is not an insentive to switch to Ogg Vorbis at all. The incentive
is to switch from Icecast to Shoutcast, which I'm still seriously
considering, but I was waiting and hoping for this fix to be done so the
restriction could be lifted.
This should be bad news for Xiph but it would appear they do not regard usage of
Icecast as an advantage to them.
The only insentive for me and many others is sound quality. If Xiph wants
everyone to use vorbis for streaming then it needs to perform much better at
lower bitrates, and some serious work needs to be done on the codec. The only
work we are seeing released is by independent developers.
Where vorbis performs best is for file storage at higher bitrates. This is what
I use and recommend to everyone who will listen.
And even though it's only the YP that has the restriction, I think it will
give Icecast a reputation of not supporting popular stream formats.
It seems Xiph do not regard any of this important. and that is up to them, but I
hope they will reconsider.
Regards,
Ross.
----- Original Message -----
From: oddsock
To: icecast@xiph.org
Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2006 2:22 PM
Subject: Re: [Icecast] How do I list in YP? icecast2 ices0
it was fixed a long time ago actually. The current YP is now benefitting from
the changes made by me (with help from Karl), and yet despite the requests from
both Karl and I recommending that these streams be allowed again, it falls on
deaf ears. Ultimately it's up to Xiph to decide, although I was hoping that
when the objection "it performs badly so we turned off all non-vorbis
streams" was made, and the "performs badly" part was fixed, that
the decision would be made to return non-vorbis streams. Instead, I've
gotten nothing but silence regarding the matter.
I guess what it boils down to is a fundamental concept of what Icecast is. To
me, it's a simple, free, and open source alternative to other non-free, free
but restrictred, etc streaming media servers. Others believe, I think, that it
is really just a mechanism to boost the adoption of all the xiph codecs. This
was evident from the very beginning when Jack Moffit added support for mp3 back
into icecast2 as a "transition path to vorbis" for broadcasters. I
certainly do understand their points on the matter, however, I do not share
them.
oddsock
On 10/2/06, Ross Levis <ross@stationplaylist.com> wrote:
I thought the YP code was going to be fixed to use less resources so it
could be used with other stream formats. It seems to be taking a long
time.
As it is now, Icecast2 is not a good solution for those wanting to be on
a popular directory. I am forced to recommend using Shoutcast to my
clients so they can get onto a popular directory. I would prefer to
recommend Icecast2.
Ross Levis.
http://www.stationplaylist.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Leo Currie" <leo.currie@gmail.com>
To: < rob@rob-campbell.com>
Cc: <icecast@xiph.org>
Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2006 7:08 AM
Subject: Re: [Icecast] How do I list in YP? icecast2 ices0
The directory at Xiph.org only lists Ogg streams - MP3 streams are
silently ignored.
Leo
On 02/10/06, Rob Campbell <rob@rob-campbell.com> wrote:
> ices.conf:
> <Public>1</Public>
> <!-- The name of you stream, not the name of the song! -->
> <Name>Poohba's Urban Sounds</Name>
> <!-- Genre of your stream, be it rock or pop or whatever -->
> <Genre>RnB</Genre>
>
> icecast.xml
> <directory>
> <yp-url-timeout>15</yp-url-timeout>
> <yp-url>
http://dir.xiph.org/cgi-bin/yp-cgi</yp-url>
> </directory>
> <directory>
> <yp-url-timeout>15</yp-url-timeout>
> <yp-url>
http://www.oddsock.org/cgi-bin/yp-cgi</yp-url>
> </directory>
>
>
> When I look on the YP I don't see it there. Not really sure what
to
> look for so i looked for 'poohba'. I also did a search for all
RnB
> and
> found nothing of mine.
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL:
http://lists.xiph.org/pipermail/icecast/attachments/20061004/31389085/attachment.htm
I only have mp3s and it doesn't make sense to me to change all of them to ogg. My MDA(windows mobile phone) plays mp3s with no problem. It uses them as ringtones. Its more widely used in my circles. Why would I and everyone else want to switch to ogg? What is the benefit? Why the shun on mp3? And I can stream at 64 and 32 which is great for those streams that will get a lot of listeners. This is being done on a cable upload which isn't that impressive and not for commercial use so sound quality isn't "needed" but I could stream higher for special friends if I wanted. But if all of this is and has been available with mp3; why switch? On Wed, 2006-10-04 at 00:03 +1300, Ross Levis wrote:> I can understand wanting to boost the adoption of Xiph codecs, but I > think restricting the directory to vorbis streams only will not help > this endeavour. I can imagine it will just piss a lot of people, > including myself, and give Xiph a bad name. > > I get very few listeners of my AAC+ stream now since this occured. > The restriction is not an insentive to switch to Ogg Vorbis at all. > The incentive is to switch from Icecast to Shoutcast, which I'm still > seriously considering, but I was waiting and hoping for this fix to be > done so the restriction could be lifted. > > This should be bad news for Xiph but it would appear they do not > regard usage of Icecast as an advantage to them. > > The only insentive for me and many others is sound quality. If Xiph > wants everyone to use vorbis for streaming then it needs to > perform much better at lower bitrates, and some serious work needs to > be done on the codec. The only work we are seeing released is by > independent developers. > > Where vorbis performs best is for file storage at higher bitrates. > This is what I use and recommend to everyone who will listen. > > And even though it's only the YP that has the restriction, I think it > will give Icecast a reputation of not supporting popular stream > formats. > > It seems Xiph do not regard any of this important. and that is up to > them, but I hope they will reconsider. > > Regards, > Ross. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: oddsock > To: icecast@xiph.org > Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2006 2:22 PM > Subject: Re: [Icecast] How do I list in YP? icecast2 ices0 > > > it was fixed a long time ago actually. The current YP is now > benefitting from the changes made by me (with help from Karl), > and yet despite the requests from both Karl and I recommending > that these streams be allowed again, it falls on deaf ears. > Ultimately it's up to Xiph to decide, although I was hoping > that when the objection "it performs badly so we turned off > all non-vorbis streams" was made, and the "performs badly" > part was fixed, that the decision would be made to return > non-vorbis streams. Instead, I've gotten nothing but silence > regarding the matter. > > I guess what it boils down to is a fundamental concept of what > Icecast is. To me, it's a simple, free, and open source > alternative to other non-free, free but restrictred, etc > streaming media servers. Others believe, I think, that it is > really just a mechanism to boost the adoption of all the xiph > codecs. This was evident from the very beginning when Jack > Moffit added support for mp3 back into icecast2 as a > "transition path to vorbis" for broadcasters. I certainly do > understand their points on the matter, however, I do not share > them. > > oddsock > > On 10/2/06, Ross Levis <ross@stationplaylist.com> wrote: > I thought the YP code was going to be fixed to use > less resources so it > could be used with other stream formats. It seems to > be taking a long > time. > > As it is now, Icecast2 is not a good solution for > those wanting to be on > a popular directory. I am forced to recommend using > Shoutcast to my > clients so they can get onto a popular directory. I > would prefer to > recommend Icecast2. > > Ross Levis. > http://www.stationplaylist.com > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Leo Currie" <leo.currie@gmail.com> > To: <rob@rob-campbell.com> > Cc: <icecast@xiph.org> > Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2006 7:08 AM > Subject: Re: [Icecast] How do I list in YP? icecast2 > ices0 > > > The directory at Xiph.org only lists Ogg streams - MP3 > streams are > silently ignored. > > Leo > > On 02/10/06, Rob Campbell <rob@rob-campbell.com> > wrote: > > ices.conf: > > <Public>1</Public> > > <!-- The name of you stream, not the name of the > song! --> > > <Name>Poohba's Urban Sounds</Name> > > <!-- Genre of your stream, be it rock or pop or > whatever --> > > <Genre>RnB</Genre> > > > > icecast.xml > > <directory> > > <yp-url-timeout>15</yp-url-timeout> > > > <yp-url>http://dir.xiph.org/cgi-bin/yp-cgi</yp-url> > > </directory> > > <directory> > > <yp-url-timeout>15</yp-url-timeout> > > > <yp-url>http://www.oddsock.org/cgi-bin/yp-cgi</yp-url> > > </directory> > > > > > > When I look on the YP I don't see it there. Not > really sure what to > > look for so i looked for 'poohba'. I also did a > search for all RnB > > and > > found nothing of mine. > _______________________________________________ > Icecast mailing list > Icecast@xiph.org > http://lists.xiph.org/mailman/listinfo/icecast
in any case, the icecast community could use more open YP servers, if they have stable uptime then they could be added to the default icecast config file. --mark On Wed, 04 Oct 2006 00:03:04 +1300, Ross Levis wrote:> I can understand wanting to boost the adoption of Xiph codecs, but I think restricting the directory to vorbis streams only will not help this endeavour. I can imagine it will just piss a lot of people, including myself, and give Xiph a bad name. > > I get very few listeners of my AAC+ stream now since this occured. The restriction is not an insentive to switch to Ogg Vorbis at all. The incentive is to switch from Icecast to Shoutcast, which I'm still seriously considering, but I was waiting and hoping for this fix to be done so the restriction could be lifted. > > This should be bad news for Xiph but it would appear they do not regard usage of Icecast as an advantage to them. > > The only insentive for me and many others is sound quality. If Xiph wants everyone to use vorbis for streaming then it needs to perform much better at lower bitrates, and some serious work needs to be done on the codec. The only work we are seeing released is by independent developers. > > Where vorbis performs best is for file storage at higher bitrates. This is what I use and recommend to everyone who will listen. > > And even though it's only the YP that has the restriction, I think it will give Icecast a reputation of not supporting popular stream formats. > > It seems Xiph do not regard any of this important. and that is up to them, but I hope they will reconsider. > > Regards, > Ross. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: oddsock > To: icecast@xiph.org > Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2006 2:22 PM > Subject: Re: [Icecast] How do I list in YP? icecast2 ices0 > > > it was fixed a long time ago actually. The current YP is now benefitting from the changes made by me (with help from Karl), and yet despite the requests from both Karl and I recommending that these streams be allowed again, it falls on deaf ears. Ultimately it's up to Xiph to decide, although I was hoping that when the objection "it performs badly so we turned off all non-vorbis streams" was made, and the "performs badly" part was fixed, that the decision would be made to return non-vorbis streams. Instead, I've gotten nothing but silence regarding the matter. > > I guess what it boils down to is a fundamental concept of what Icecast is. To me, it's a simple, free, and open source alternative to other non-free, free but restrictred, etc streaming media servers. Others believe, I think, that it is really just a mechanism to boost the adoption of all the xiph codecs. This was evident from the very beginning when Jack Moffit added support for mp3 back into icecast2 as a "transition path to vorbis" for broadcasters. I certainly do understand their points on the matter, however, I do not share them. > > oddsock > > > On 10/2/06, Ross Levis <ross@stationplaylist.com> wrote: > I thought the YP code was going to be fixed to use less resources so it > could be used with other stream formats. It seems to be taking a long > time. > > As it is now, Icecast2 is not a good solution for those wanting to be on > a popular directory. I am forced to recommend using Shoutcast to my > clients so they can get onto a popular directory. I would prefer to > recommend Icecast2. > > Ross Levis. > http://www.stationplaylist.com > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Leo Currie" <leo.currie@gmail.com> > To: < rob@rob-campbell.com> > Cc: <icecast@xiph.org> > Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2006 7:08 AM > Subject: Re: [Icecast] How do I list in YP? icecast2 ices0 > > > The directory at Xiph.org only lists Ogg streams - MP3 streams are > silently ignored. > > Leo > > On 02/10/06, Rob Campbell <rob@rob-campbell.com> wrote: > > ices.conf: > > <Public>1</Public> > > <!-- The name of you stream, not the name of the song! --> > > <Name>Poohba's Urban Sounds</Name> > > <!-- Genre of your stream, be it rock or pop or whatever --> > > <Genre>RnB</Genre> > > > > icecast.xml > > <directory> > > <yp-url-timeout>15</yp-url-timeout> > > <yp-url> http://dir.xiph.org/cgi-bin/yp-cgi</yp-url> > > </directory> > > <directory> > > <yp-url-timeout>15</yp-url-timeout> > > <yp-url> http://www.oddsock.org/cgi-bin/yp-cgi</yp-url> > > </directory> > > > > > > When I look on the YP I don't see it there. Not really sure what to > > look for so i looked for 'poohba'. I also did a search for all RnB > > and > > found nothing of mine.> _______________________________________________ > Icecast mailing list > Icecast@xiph.org > http://lists.xiph.org/mailman/listinfo/icecast
Hi Rob The stream format has nothing to do with your audio files. I probably have 70% MP3's and 30% Ogg Vorbis files, and 1 or 2 WAV files for jingles on my hard drive. I only encode new CD's to Ogg Vorbis. But my station is streaming in AAC+ format, and I have also streamed in Ogg Vorbis format simultaneously. There is no way I would bother streaming in MP3 format. It's 15+ year old technology and not designed for streaming at low bitrates. It sounds like crap at anything below 112k. Whereas 28k AAC+ sounds pretty good in hifi stereo, and this bitrate means it's available to dial-up internet users. Here is my 28k AAC+ world music stream if you are interested. It requires Winamp v5 or Foobar2000 or XMPlay or Screamer or VLC for Mac/Linux http://soulfm.stationplaylist.com/listen.m3u Ross. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rob Campbell" <rob@rob-campbell.com> To: <icecast@xiph.org> Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2006 4:13 AM Subject: Re: [Icecast] How do I list in YP? icecast2 ices0 I only have mp3s and it doesn't make sense to me to change all of them to ogg. My MDA(windows mobile phone) plays mp3s with no problem. It uses them as ringtones. Its more widely used in my circles. Why would I and everyone else want to switch to ogg? What is the benefit? Why the shun on mp3? And I can stream at 64 and 32 which is great for those streams that will get a lot of listeners. This is being done on a cable upload which isn't that impressive and not for commercial use so sound quality isn't "needed" but I could stream higher for special friends if I wanted. But if all of this is and has been available with mp3; why switch? On Wed, 2006-10-04 at 00:03 +1300, Ross Levis wrote:> I can understand wanting to boost the adoption of Xiph codecs, but I > think restricting the directory to vorbis streams only will not help > this endeavour. I can imagine it will just piss a lot of people, > including myself, and give Xiph a bad name. > > I get very few listeners of my AAC+ stream now since this occured. > The restriction is not an insentive to switch to Ogg Vorbis at all. > The incentive is to switch from Icecast to Shoutcast, which I'm still > seriously considering, but I was waiting and hoping for this fix to be > done so the restriction could be lifted. > > This should be bad news for Xiph but it would appear they do not > regard usage of Icecast as an advantage to them. > > The only insentive for me and many others is sound quality. If Xiph > wants everyone to use vorbis for streaming then it needs to > perform much better at lower bitrates, and some serious work needs to > be done on the codec. The only work we are seeing released is by > independent developers. > > Where vorbis performs best is for file storage at higher bitrates. > This is what I use and recommend to everyone who will listen. > > And even though it's only the YP that has the restriction, I think it > will give Icecast a reputation of not supporting popular stream > formats. > > It seems Xiph do not regard any of this important. and that is up to > them, but I hope they will reconsider. > > Regards, > Ross. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: oddsock > To: icecast@xiph.org > Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2006 2:22 PM > Subject: Re: [Icecast] How do I list in YP? icecast2 ices0 > > > it was fixed a long time ago actually. The current YP is now > benefitting from the changes made by me (with help from Karl), > and yet despite the requests from both Karl and I recommending > that these streams be allowed again, it falls on deaf ears. > Ultimately it's up to Xiph to decide, although I was hoping > that when the objection "it performs badly so we turned off > all non-vorbis streams" was made, and the "performs badly" > part was fixed, that the decision would be made to return > non-vorbis streams. Instead, I've gotten nothing but silence > regarding the matter. > > I guess what it boils down to is a fundamental concept of what > Icecast is. To me, it's a simple, free, and open source > alternative to other non-free, free but restrictred, etc > streaming media servers. Others believe, I think, that it is > really just a mechanism to boost the adoption of all the xiph > codecs. This was evident from the very beginning when Jack > Moffit added support for mp3 back into icecast2 as a > "transition path to vorbis" for broadcasters. I certainly do > understand their points on the matter, however, I do not share > them. > > oddsock > > On 10/2/06, Ross Levis <ross@stationplaylist.com> wrote: > I thought the YP code was going to be fixed to use > less resources so it > could be used with other stream formats. It seems to > be taking a long > time. > > As it is now, Icecast2 is not a good solution for > those wanting to be on > a popular directory. I am forced to recommend using > Shoutcast to my > clients so they can get onto a popular directory. I > would prefer to > recommend Icecast2. > > Ross Levis. > http://www.stationplaylist.com > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Leo Currie" <leo.currie@gmail.com> > To: <rob@rob-campbell.com> > Cc: <icecast@xiph.org> > Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2006 7:08 AM > Subject: Re: [Icecast] How do I list in YP? icecast2 > ices0 > > > The directory at Xiph.org only lists Ogg streams - MP3 > streams are > silently ignored. > > Leo > > On 02/10/06, Rob Campbell <rob@rob-campbell.com> > wrote: > > ices.conf: > > <Public>1</Public> > > <!-- The name of you stream, not the name of the > song! --> > > <Name>Poohba's Urban Sounds</Name> > > <!-- Genre of your stream, be it rock or pop or > whatever --> > > <Genre>RnB</Genre> > > > > icecast.xml > > <directory> > > <yp-url-timeout>15</yp-url-timeout> > > > <yp-url>http://dir.xiph.org/cgi-bin/yp-cgi</yp-url> > > </directory> > > <directory> > > <yp-url-timeout>15</yp-url-timeout> > > > <yp-url>http://www.oddsock.org/cgi-bin/yp-cgi</yp-url> > > </directory> > > > > > > When I look on the YP I don't see it there. Not > really sure what to > > look for so i looked for 'poohba'. I also did a > search for all RnB > > and > > found nothing of mine. > _______________________________________________ > Icecast mailing list > Icecast@xiph.org > http://lists.xiph.org/mailman/listinfo/icecast_______________________________________________ Icecast mailing list Icecast@xiph.org http://lists.xiph.org/mailman/listinfo/icecast -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.xiph.org/pipermail/icecast/attachments/20061004/84d6ab9b/attachment.htm