> > Right now, it's essentially a daemon that takes in a data stream and spits > it back out. And does absolutely nothing else. I'm sorry, but past > precedents and the state of streaming technology today dictates that it do > more than that to be considered useful.nothing else ? i've got it to do l0ts ! and i must say , i've had horrible luck w/ the icecast live-streaming clients . icecast2 has ices2 which has been VERY stable for me . so much so that i am willing to switch . this may not be your experience . .> Tell me, in the past year, where exactly HAS icecast gone? Absolutely > no-where. Don't throw this Cathedral and the Bazaar crap around as a > cop-out. If this were a serious project, then the maintainer (if there > even is someone with that hat on) should look for more enthusiastic people > to take icecast2 forward. Because right now, no matter what open-source > ideaology you toss around, icecast2 is stagnant, underdevelopped, and > underpromoted.my throw-ins weren't meant as a cop-out . , rather , my point is that the developers have lives ; exams ; and other responsibilities . C&B bit suggests that you give what you can , if others are enthusiastic , great . . if not , well, the developers have given what they can . who are you to make demands on their time ? if you feel the c0de po0l is stagnant , go elsewhere _ OR , offer some c0de updates> > Put down the crack pipe, dude. My mind is open. I DO use icecast. I DO NOT > want to use shoutcast/live365. As for audio formats, there are abosolutely > no reasons for me to move to OGG, becase icecast2 does not allow me to > provide the same service and experience to my users as streaming mp3s with > icecast 1.x does. > > I WOULD love nothing more than to move to OGG once the adequate server > features are in place, and time allows me to re-encode approx. 5000 tracks > of music. But I'm not going to reduce my useablitiy and server functions > at my disposal for the sake of OGG itself.fyi ; icecast2 on-demand streaming (fileserve) DOES support mp3 , you can see it in work at http://theDV8network.com . _ i use icecast2 because OGG has better sound quality , and i've had better experience w/ ices2 live-streamer . if you are not live re-encoding than you wouldn't have had to go through the 6 week binge i did , setting up the system . but all this is irrelavant , the point is : : (as it says in the README ) _ icecast2 is stable for the services it provides ; and imho , more stable for live re-encoding . <p>> As for "needy/outmoded user bases", you definitely have no finger on the> pulse of reality in the streaming audio world. Right now, OGG is only an > alternative for those who have zero interest in serving streaming music.this may have beEn somewhat harsh , but i'll clarify . i don't think that MP3-support represents a 'neEdy/outm0ded' user base, what i do mean is : make the most of what is freely offered , and if you don't feel that icecast2 serves you , then find something else . but don't come back to this listserv and suggest that the project is misplaced or not useful ! ,so by saying 'needy/outm0ded' i was referring to the authors of this recent rash of ice2 flames . a:/, btw : please stop cluttering this listserv (myself included) with rants about what should and shouldn't be . . --- >8 ---- List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ icecast project homepage: http://www.icecast.org/ To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'icecast-request@xiph.org' containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered.
On Sat, 28 Dec 2002, Adon Irani wrote: | woah do0d . that's a crackp0t theory if i ever heard one ., | | i'll offer an alternate theory . KiSS - keEp it simple sir ; why should | the icecast2 developers be guilt-tripped into repeating icecast's | performance ? Icecast2 is icecast2. I'm talking about it's lack of innovation (ogg streaming! woopdefuckingdoo) as well as it's lack of functionality that doesnt even near icecast 1.x (yp, acls, metadata, web-based admin). Right now, it's essentially a daemon that takes in a data stream and spits it back out. And does absolutely nothing else. I'm sorry, but past precedents and the state of streaming technology today dictates that it do more than that to be considered useful. | _ is it not enough that OGG can have a streaming server that supports it ? | can't that feature base be developed and stabalized prior to prettyin' up | the package w/ features from the original icecast ? | | another question -- who do you think develops these things ?? go read | "Cathedral and the Bazaar" somewhere on the web or in a bo0kstore near you | . . don't expect everything , and you won't have to deal w/ sh*t/rushed | c0de . allow a project to develop into its own niche , and i do believe | strongly that OGG/vorbis does indeed merit the attention . Tell me, in the past year, where exactly HAS icecast gone? Absolutely no-where. Don't throw this Cathedral and the Bazaar crap around as a cop-out. If this were a serious project, then the maintainer (if there even is someone with that hat on) should look for more enthusiastic people to take icecast2 forward. Because right now, no matter what open-source ideaology you toss around, icecast2 is stagnant, underdevelopped, and underpromoted. | and pLease , PLEASE __ open your mind to a world that is bigger than | proprietary technologies , and neEdy/ outmoded user bases . . Put down the crack pipe, dude. My mind is open. I DO use icecast. I DO NOT want to use shoutcast/live365. As for audio formats, there are abosolutely no reasons for me to move to OGG, becase icecast2 does not allow me to provide the same service and experience to my users as streaming mp3s with icecast 1.x does. I WOULD love nothing more than to move to OGG once the adequate server features are in place, and time allows me to re-encode approx. 5000 tracks of music. But I'm not going to reduce my useablitiy and server functions at my disposal for the sake of OGG itself. As for "needy/outmoded user bases", you definitely have no finger on the pulse of reality in the streaming audio world. Right now, OGG is only an alternative for those who have zero interest in serving streaming music. /dale --- >8 ---- List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ icecast project homepage: http://www.icecast.org/ To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'icecast-request@xiph.org' containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered.
Dale Ghent wrote:> Icecast2 is icecast2. I'm talking about it's lack of innovation (ogg > streaming! woopdefuckingdoo) as well as it's lack of functionality that > doesnt even near icecast 1.x (yp, acls, metadata, web-based admin).Apparently, you haven't tried Icecast2-alpha, yet. YP should work on Icecast2's side, but my understanding is that the current directory servers don't support it yet. Or I'm wrong and it works - I really should try this. Metadata works for a long time now, ACLs are missing (but you can get around most issues via tcpwrappers), don't know about web-based admin (either it's there, or will be there soon, plus there's a lot that can be done by the source client). In addition to that, it supports chroot() and ch[g,u]id()ing for additional security. And yes, Vorbis streaming is innovative, you just don't care.> Tell me, in the past year, where exactly HAS icecast gone? Absolutely > no-where. Don't throw this Cathedral and the Bazaar crap around as aIt has gone from something that takes Vorbis and spits it out, while doing not much else, to something useful.> want to use shoutcast/live365. As for audio formats, there are abosolutely > no reasons for me to move to OGG, becase icecast2 does not allow me to > provide the same service and experience to my users as streaming mp3s with > icecast 1.x does.Could you give me some examples? The only thing I personally miss in Icecast2-alpha at this point is to see who's currently listening (It tells only the amount of current listeners the last time I checked. At this point, I know who listened after he/her disconnected fom the log entries). But then I also consider this a minor detail... <p>Moritz --- >8 ---- List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ icecast project homepage: http://www.icecast.org/ To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'icecast-request@xiph.org' containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered.
Behold, gtgbr@gmx.net hath decreed:> Dale Ghent wrote: > > Icecast2 is icecast2. I'm talking about it's lack of innovation (ogg > > streaming! woopdefuckingdoo) as well as it's lack of functionality that > > doesnt even near icecast 1.x (yp, acls, metadata, web-based admin). > > Apparently, you haven't tried Icecast2-alpha, yet.So... we have to try an alpha version of unreleased (an apparently, unmentionable [anywhere but here]) software in order for it to achieve a modicum of the functionality of the previous version of the software, which is now obsolete? Something's rotten in the state of Denmark...>YP should work on > Icecast2's side, but my understanding is that the current directory > servers don't support it yet. Or I'm wrong and it works - I really > should try this. Metadata works for a long time now, ACLs are missing > (but you can get around most issues via tcpwrappers), don't know about > web-based admin (either it's there, or will be there soon, plus there's > a lot that can be done by the source client). In addition to that, it > supports chroot() and ch[g,u]id()ing for additional security. And yes, > Vorbis streaming is innovative, you just don't care.I think his point was Vorbis streaming itself is not all that interesting from the perspective of someone with a collection of mp3s who wants to stream music.> > > Tell me, in the past year, where exactly HAS icecast gone? Absolutely > > no-where. Don't throw this Cathedral and the Bazaar crap around as a > > It has gone from something that takes Vorbis and spits it out, while > doing not much else, to something useful.What does it do? Where is the feature description? Do I have to run it to figure out what it is supposed to do? How am I supposed to even know that icecast2 streams vorbis without searching archives for arguments like this thread? -- prothonotar at tarnation.dyndns.org "Every man is a mob, a chain gang of idiots." - Jonathan Nolan, /Momento Mori/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: part Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 593 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.xiph.org/pipermail/icecast/attachments/20021228/9071cdb2/part.pgp