Le 11/02/2020 ? 14:11, Jonathan Billings a ?crit?:> I've mentioned on this list countless times about how NetworkManager > is actually pretty good for a general server. Automatic link > detection and activation/deactivation, a dispatch service on link > activation/deactivation, support for bringing up secondary interfaces > after a primary goes up, a dbus interface for automation, etc.I just prepared myself to catch up and learn more about NetworkManager. So I opened my big fat "Unix and Linux System Administration Handbook 5th edition", with a text file open on the computer to take extensive notes... ... only to find out that there is only half a page on NetworkManager in this book. Allow me to quote it: "NetworkManager is primarily of use on laptops, since their network enviromment may change frequently. For servers and desktop systems, NetworkManager isn't necessary and may in fact complicate administration. In these environments, it should be ignored or configured out." Hmmmm. -- Microlinux - Solutions informatiques durables 7, place de l'?glise - 30730 Montpezat Site : https://www.microlinux.fr Mail : info at microlinux.fr T?l. : 04 66 63 10 32 Mob. : 06 51 80 12 12
On Thu, 13 Feb 2020 at 11:40, Nicolas Kovacs <info at microlinux.fr> wrote:> Le 11/02/2020 ? 14:11, Jonathan Billings a ?crit : > > I've mentioned on this list countless times about how NetworkManager > > is actually pretty good for a general server. Automatic link > > detection and activation/deactivation, a dispatch service on link > > activation/deactivation, support for bringing up secondary interfaces > > after a primary goes up, a dbus interface for automation, etc. > > I just prepared myself to catch up and learn more about NetworkManager. So > I > opened my big fat "Unix and Linux System Administration Handbook 5th > edition", > with a text file open on the computer to take extensive notes... > > ... only to find out that there is only half a page on NetworkManager in > this > book. Allow me to quote it: > > "NetworkManager is primarily of use on laptops, since their network > enviromment > may change frequently. For servers and desktop systems, NetworkManager > isn't > necessary and may in fact complicate administration. In these > environments, it > should be ignored or configured out." > >The book was published in 2017 which means it was written in late 2016. As much as I love that series of books (I have read them from 1st edition), I do not expect that its comments on parts of Linux in the 3rd edition would be useful now. In the end, the problem is that NetworkManager, FirewallD, and other 'automatic' helpers are 'part' of the OS.. and while it was easy to tear them out in earlier versions.. as time goes on it is not. For a car analogy, it was much easier to convert any 1970 car from automatic back to manual as many parts were left over. Now in this era, you can do so if you pick the right car but for a lot of them it is not going to be easy in any form. I see the same trends in computer OS's with certain tools which were easy to pull out now requiring you to build the whole os from scratch as the part is assumed to be in so many other areas. -- Stephen J Smoogen.
Le 13/02/2020 ? 17:50, Stephen John Smoogen a ?crit?:> In the end, the problem is that NetworkManager, FirewallD, and other > 'automatic' helpers are 'part' of the OS.. and while it was easy to tear > them out in earlier versions.. as time goes on it is not. > > For a car analogy, it was much easier to convert any 1970 car from > automatic back to manual as many parts were left over. Now in this era, you > can do so if you pick the right car but for a lot of them it is not going > to be easy in any form. I see the same trends in computer OS's with certain > tools which were easy to pull out now requiring you to build the whole os > from scratch as the part is assumed to be in so many other areas.I just came to the same conclusion. So it looks like I'll have to catch up and do some RTFM on NetworkManager, FirewallD (which I've replaced by a handcrafted iptables script) and Chrony (replaced by ntpd). Cheers, Niki -- Microlinux - Solutions informatiques durables 7, place de l'?glise - 30730 Montpezat Site : https://www.microlinux.fr Mail : info at microlinux.fr T?l. : 04 66 63 10 32 Mob. : 06 51 80 12 12
On 2020-02-13 10:50, Stephen John Smoogen wrote:> On Thu, 13 Feb 2020 at 11:40, Nicolas Kovacs <info at microlinux.fr> wrote: > >> Le 11/02/2020 ? 14:11, Jonathan Billings a ?crit : >>> I've mentioned on this list countless times about how NetworkManager >>> is actually pretty good for a general server. Automatic link >>> detection and activation/deactivation, a dispatch service on link >>> activation/deactivation, support for bringing up secondary interfaces >>> after a primary goes up, a dbus interface for automation, etc. >> >> I just prepared myself to catch up and learn more about NetworkManager. So >> I >> opened my big fat "Unix and Linux System Administration Handbook 5th >> edition", >> with a text file open on the computer to take extensive notes... >> >> ... only to find out that there is only half a page on NetworkManager in >> this >> book. Allow me to quote it: >> >> "NetworkManager is primarily of use on laptops, since their network >> enviromment >> may change frequently. For servers and desktop systems, NetworkManager >> isn't >> necessary and may in fact complicate administration. In these >> environments, it >> should be ignored or configured out." >> >> > The book was published in 2017 which means it was written in late 2016. As > much as I love that series of books (I have read them from 1st edition), I > do not expect that its comments on parts of Linux in the 3rd edition would > be useful now. > > In the end, the problem is that NetworkManager, FirewallD, and other > 'automatic' helpers are 'part' of the OS.. and while it was easy to tear > them out in earlier versions.. as time goes on it is not.I like the way you called the fact that these "automatic" things are part of OS: the PROBLEM (in case of servers). Every time I see these discussions on Linux lists, I tell myself how happy I am after fleeing servers to different OS (huh, I'll break my plea to not mention it: FreeBSD). Valeri> > For a car analogy, it was much easier to convert any 1970 car from > automatic back to manual as many parts were left over. Now in this era, you > can do so if you pick the right car but for a lot of them it is not going > to be easy in any form. I see the same trends in computer OS's with certain > tools which were easy to pull out now requiring you to build the whole os > from scratch as the part is assumed to be in so many other areas. > > >-- ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Valeri Galtsev Sr System Administrator Department of Astronomy and Astrophysics Kavli Institute for Cosmological Physics University of Chicago Phone: 773-702-4247 ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Le 13/02/2020 ? 17:50, Stephen John Smoogen a ?crit?:> In the end, the problem is that NetworkManager, FirewallD, and other > 'automatic' helpers are 'part' of the OS.. and while it was easy to tear > them out in earlier versions.. as time goes on it is not. > > For a car analogy, it was much easier to convert any 1970 car from > automatic back to manual as many parts were left over. Now in this era, you > can do so if you pick the right car but for a lot of them it is not going > to be easy in any form. I see the same trends in computer OS's with certain > tools which were easy to pull out now requiring you to build the whole os > from scratch as the part is assumed to be in so many other areas.I'm currently in the process of making peace with NetworkManager, FirewallD, etc. and adopting them on my servers. Here's a start : * https://www.microlinux.fr/networkmanager-centos-rhel-1/ Cheers, Niki -- Microlinux - Solutions informatiques durables 7, place de l'?glise - 30730 Montpezat Site : https://www.microlinux.fr Mail : info at microlinux.fr T?l. : 04 66 63 10 32 Mob. : 06 51 80 12 12