Too much temptation to resist, I don't know which one of us is older but I have a feeling it's a "horse race". Like you, I still have a land line, WiFi is too slow and "WiFi security" seems to be an oxymoronic phrase. Why people text (or IM for that matter) anything other than a one-liner is beyond me. Now for the real issue, what happens when Network Manager (Systemd, journald, etc.) breaks? Who is going to fix it? Hiding the complexity in software effectively dumbs us down leaving us helpless when problems surface. Anyone who has worked with Microsoft understands - give me the command prompt any day rather than layers of GUI hiding those possibly cryptic but also possibly useful messages. ----- Original Message ----- From: "m roth" <m.roth at 5-cent.us> To: "CentOS mailing list" <centos at centos.org> Sent: Tuesday, February 14, 2017 10:07:55 AM Subject: Re: [CentOS] CentOS 7, systemd, NetworkMangler, oh, my Johnny Hughes wrote: <snip>> I get it .. but no one needed a hand held cell phone before 1973 and no > one needed a smart phone before 2007. Now, almost everyone has a smart > cell and land lines are dying. Technology moves forward. People want > integrated cloud, container, SDN technology, etc. Used a VCR or > Cassette Player lately?I have no intention of *ever* getting an annoyaphone - I'm online all day at work, before I go to work, and most evenings, in front of a *real* computer. My cell's a flipphone, and I *LOATHE* texts... because the protocol was developed for freakin' pagers, and after a job 20 years ago, I don't EVER want that again. And my land line phone has *much* better voice quality than any cell/mobile.* And yes, I very happily have my VCR, for all the tapes I have, and a good dual cassette deck (OK, I do want to burn them to disk... along with my 200-300 vinyl records...oh, that's right, vinyl's coming back. <g> mark, who's older than a lot of you _______________________________________________ CentOS mailing list CentOS at centos.org https://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
On 02/15/2017 07:34 AM, Leroy Tennison wrote:> Too much temptation to resist, I don't know which one of us is older but I have a feeling it's a "horse race". Like you, I still have a land line, WiFi is too slow and "WiFi security" seems to be an oxymoronic phrase. Why people text (or IM for that matter) anything other than a one-liner is beyond me. > > Now for the real issue, what happens when Network Manager (Systemd, journald, etc.) breaks? Who is going to fix it? Hiding the complexity in software effectively dumbs us down leaving us helpless when problems surface. Anyone who has worked with Microsoft understands - give me the command prompt any day rather than layers of GUI hiding those possibly cryptic but also possibly useful messages. >The people who are going to fix it are people who have RHCE certs and/or computer science degrees who work for the companies running Linux. And I am a few years old myself.> ----- Original Message ----- > From: "m roth" <m.roth at 5-cent.us> > To: "CentOS mailing list" <centos at centos.org> > Sent: Tuesday, February 14, 2017 10:07:55 AM > Subject: Re: [CentOS] CentOS 7, systemd, NetworkMangler, oh, my > > Johnny Hughes wrote: > <snip> >> I get it .. but no one needed a hand held cell phone before 1973 and no >> one needed a smart phone before 2007. Now, almost everyone has a smart >> cell and land lines are dying. Technology moves forward. People want >> integrated cloud, container, SDN technology, etc. Used a VCR or >> Cassette Player lately? > > I have no intention of *ever* getting an annoyaphone - I'm online all day > at work, before I go to work, and most evenings, in front of a *real* > computer. My cell's a flipphone, and I *LOATHE* texts... because the > protocol was developed for freakin' pagers, and after a job 20 years ago, > I don't EVER want that again. > > And my land line phone has *much* better voice quality than any cell/mobile.* > > And yes, I very happily have my VCR, for all the tapes I have, and a good > dual cassette deck (OK, I do want to burn them to disk... along with my > 200-300 vinyl records...oh, that's right, vinyl's coming back. <g> >-------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 198 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: <http://lists.centos.org/pipermail/centos/attachments/20170215/1964a6f3/attachment-0001.sig>
On 02/15/2017 07:41 AM, Johnny Hughes wrote:> On 02/15/2017 07:34 AM, Leroy Tennison wrote: >> Too much temptation to resist, I don't know which one of us is older but I have a feeling it's a "horse race". Like you, I still have a land line, WiFi is too slow and "WiFi security" seems to be an oxymoronic phrase. Why people text (or IM for that matter) anything other than a one-liner is beyond me. >> >> Now for the real issue, what happens when Network Manager (Systemd, journald, etc.) breaks? Who is going to fix it? Hiding the complexity in software effectively dumbs us down leaving us helpless when problems surface. Anyone who has worked with Microsoft understands - give me the command prompt any day rather than layers of GUI hiding those possibly cryptic but also possibly useful messages. >> > > The people who are going to fix it are people who have RHCE certs and/or > computer science degrees who work for the companies running Linux.Thank you for agreeing that systemd is not suitable for use outside of an organization that employs such people. -- Bob Nichols "NOSPAM" is really part of my email address. Do NOT delete it.
On Wed, February 15, 2017 7:34 am, Leroy Tennison wrote:> Too much temptation to resist, I don't know which one of us is older but I > have a feeling it's a "horse race". Like you, I still have a land line, > WiFi is too slow and "WiFi security" seems to be an oxymoronic phrase. > Why people text (or IM for that matter) anything other than a one-liner is > beyond me. > > Now for the real issue, what happens when Network Manager (Systemd, > journald, etc.) breaks? Who is going to fix it? Hiding the complexity in > software effectively dumbs us down leaving us helpless when problems > surface. Anyone who has worked with Microsoft understands - give me the > command prompt any day rather than layers of GUI hiding those possibly > cryptic but also possibly useful messages.Yes, stepping up to CentOS 7 reminded me MacOS Server which I had to help my Professor to maintain. For the most part it (MacOS Server) worked and all was self evident, but when it doesn't you finally have to open their huge doc book just to discover that it merely explains you mostly in pictures how to navigate through their GUI menus. And each of them ended with something like "and you are done". No descriptions of errors and what to do when one occurs. Because of which (unexpected errors) we actually opened documentation. (Then we finally agreed that no matter how huge the book is, documentation does not exist). My start with CentOS 7 to some extent reminded me this MacOS Server experience ;-) No, not ansence of documentation, but the attitude to make everybody use GUI. Exactly as you notice. I bet many users were lost by Linux then... Valeri> > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "m roth" <m.roth at 5-cent.us> > To: "CentOS mailing list" <centos at centos.org> > Sent: Tuesday, February 14, 2017 10:07:55 AM > Subject: Re: [CentOS] CentOS 7, systemd, NetworkMangler, oh, my > > Johnny Hughes wrote: > <snip> >> I get it .. but no one needed a hand held cell phone before 1973 and no >> one needed a smart phone before 2007. Now, almost everyone has a smart >> cell and land lines are dying. Technology moves forward. People want >> integrated cloud, container, SDN technology, etc. Used a VCR or >> Cassette Player lately? > > I have no intention of *ever* getting an annoyaphone - I'm online all day > at work, before I go to work, and most evenings, in front of a *real* > computer. My cell's a flipphone, and I *LOATHE* texts... because the > protocol was developed for freakin' pagers, and after a job 20 years ago, > I don't EVER want that again. > > And my land line phone has *much* better voice quality than any > cell/mobile.* > > And yes, I very happily have my VCR, for all the tapes I have, and a good > dual cassette deck (OK, I do want to burn them to disk... along with my > 200-300 vinyl records...oh, that's right, vinyl's coming back. <g> > > mark, who's older than a lot of you > > _______________________________________________ > CentOS mailing list > CentOS at centos.org > https://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos > _______________________________________________ > CentOS mailing list > CentOS at centos.org > https://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos >++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Valeri Galtsev Sr System Administrator Department of Astronomy and Astrophysics Kavli Institute for Cosmological Physics University of Chicago Phone: 773-702-4247 ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
On Wed, 15 Feb 2017, Valeri Galtsev wrote:> My start with CentOS 7 to some extent reminded me this MacOS Server > experience ;-) No, not ansence of documentation, but the attitude to make > everybody use GUI. Exactly as you notice. I bet many users were lost by > Linux then...Sometimes on this list I get the impression that I've downloaded an entirely different release of CentOS 7 to other people. Exactly what GUI do you ever have to use with CentOS7? systemd all in has caused me remarkably little bother, getting on and doing what it's told. I had some logind glitches, but those were fixable. I configure the lot with puppet, and to be honest found C7 pretty pain free as an upgrade. For various reasons, real happiness didn't arrive until 7.2, but then lots of that was due to nvidia driver behaviours with Gnome3 that I suspect most people don't have to worry about. But complaining that CentOS 7 is GUI driven I find baffling. jh