Folks
I'm sure the Centos team has done a yeoman's job getting Centos7
ready, and that the Redhat team has done marvels in creating rhel7,
but here's a little voice from a personal hobbyist user.
Background:
('ve been maintaining several remote servers since Redhat 6 days,
migrating from that to Whitebox, then Centos, and things have been
running as expected including the current version of Centos6. As an
experiment, I've tried to play with Centos7 on an in-house virtual
machine (VMWare on Win7), and have encountered a collection of
annoyances greater than I've even seen. Below is a note about
them. If someone has some elegant solution, I'd love to try, but
Centos7 is still unusable for me.
1: Firewall changes
The change in firewall technology forced a complete re-do of my
scripts which maintain firewalls, respond to attacks, etc. I think
I've programmed my way around the issues, but it wasn't easy.
2: Apache changes
These were subtle, but again were solved.
3: Service -> systemd
The change from object-oriented view of service: (service httpd
restart) to function-oriented (systemctl restart firewall) seems to
be unnecessary, and counter to the way stuff is generally done in the
modern world. Nonetheless, it was possible to solve that with some
adaptive script programming.
4) Something with Unknown lvalue 'ControlGroup' in section
'Service'
I don't know what to do with this. I constantly get the diagnostic:
[/usr/lib/systemd/system/rtkit-daemon.service:32] Unknown lvalue
'ControlGroup' in section 'Service'
and attempts to browse the internet for solutions come across
barriers that require some paid subscription to view. This is
currently a progress-stopper. The messages I see deal with boinc,
which does not show up on my system using "rpm -qa | grep -i boinc".
5) Sendmail is out, postfix is in.
This is a huge change, since I had lots of scripts that tailored
the Sendmail system for spam protection, dealing with SmartHosts that
required SMTP-AUTH and others required weird configurations,
etc. Whether this is working yet I don't quite know, but it seems
the scripts can accommodate the change.
6) Installation
I have no idea why, when using the net-install, one must explicitly
turn on the network. It seems unnecessary.
7) Lack of 32-bit support
I think I understand this. After all, 32-bit machines may become
"unusable" when the clock overflows, but isn't that a few years
away,
and couldn't some solution be found, even if kludgy? Some of the
32-bit hardware was of very high quality, and still runs
perfectly. I'd hate to spend a few hundred dollars each to replace
all those systems.
8) And more
...
I haven't got a server or desktop running to my satisfaction yet, so
I don't yet know what pitfalls await. Any advice would be appreciated.
David in San Francisco
On 10/31/2014 01:45 AM, david wrote:> Folks > > I'm sure the Centos team has done a yeoman's job getting Centos7 ready, > and that the Redhat team has done marvels in creating rhel7, but here's > a little voice from a personal hobbyist user. > > Background: > ('ve been maintaining several remote servers since Redhat 6 days, > migrating from that to Whitebox, then Centos, and things have been > running as expected including the current version of Centos6. As an > experiment, I've tried to play with Centos7 on an in-house virtual > machine (VMWare on Win7), and have encountered a collection of > annoyances greater than I've even seen. Below is a note about them. If > someone has some elegant solution, I'd love to try, but Centos7 is still > unusable for me. > > 1: Firewall changes > The change in firewall technology forced a complete re-do of my > scripts which maintain firewalls, respond to attacks, etc. I think I've > programmed my way around the issues, but it wasn't easy.I used Shorewall on 5.x and 6.x so on 7.x I just disabled firewalld and installed shorewall. Btw. I haven't even tried to learn firewalld, to confusing and too lite time to waste.> > 2: Apache changes > These were subtle, but again were solved. > > 3: Service -> systemd > The change from object-oriented view of service: (service httpd > restart) to function-oriented (systemctl restart firewall) seems to be > unnecessary, and counter to the way stuff is generally done in the > modern world. Nonetheless, it was possible to solve that with some > adaptive script programming.For me "service httpd restart" works just fine, automatic conversion works like a charm. I do get informed what command was run, but it DOES it's job.> > 4) Something with Unknown lvalue 'ControlGroup' in section 'Service' > I don't know what to do with this. I constantly get the diagnostic: > [/usr/lib/systemd/system/rtkit-daemon.service:32] Unknown lvalue > 'ControlGroup' in section 'Service' > and attempts to browse the internet for solutions come across barriers > that require some paid subscription to view. This is currently a > progress-stopper. The messages I see deal with boinc, which does not > show up on my system using "rpm -qa | grep -i boinc". > > 5) Sendmail is out, postfix is in. > This is a huge change, since I had lots of scripts that tailored the > Sendmail system for spam protection, dealing with SmartHosts that > required SMTP-AUTH and others required weird configurations, etc. > Whether this is working yet I don't quite know, but it seems the scripts > can accommodate the change.I have been using Postfix from 5.x. The fact that you chose to use obsolete (from Red Hat's point of view) software should be on no one but you.> > 6) Installation > I have no idea why, when using the net-install, one must explicitly > turn on the network. It seems unnecessary. > > 7) Lack of 32-bit support > I think I understand this. After all, 32-bit machines may become > "unusable" when the clock overflows, but isn't that a few years away, > and couldn't some solution be found, even if kludgy? Some of the 32-bit > hardware was of very high quality, and still runs perfectly. I'd hate > to spend a few hundred dollars each to replace all those systems. > > 8) And moreI would add idiotic Gnome 3 that does not have right click menu for creating launchers (copying .desktop files from /usr/share/applications? works like a charm but you need to create them manually for every launcher) and inability to place launchers and icons on top panel as infuriating. Gnome extensions from Tweak Tool are very helpful in making Gnome 3 like home. I use about 10 of them. Adding Start Launcher tool is one of them.> ... > > > > I haven't got a server or desktop running to my satisfaction yet, so I > don't yet know what pitfalls await. Any advice would be appreciated. > > David in San Francisco > > _______________________________________________ > CentOS mailing list > CentOS at centos.org > http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos >-- Ljubomir Ljubojevic (Love is in the Air) PL Computers Serbia, Europe Google is the Mother, Google is the Father, and traceroute is your trusty Spiderman... StarOS, Mikrotik and CentOS/RHEL/Linux consultant
On 10/31/2014 01:45 PM, david wrote:> 1: Firewall changes > The change in firewall technology forced a complete re-do of my scripts > which maintain firewalls, respond to attacks, etc. I think I've > programmed my way around the issues, but it wasn't easy.It's trivial to disable firewalld then all your old scripts will work just fine with iptables, just like they always have.> 2: Apache changes > These were subtle, but again were solved.New version of apache, there have always been config changes between versions.> 3: Service -> systemd > The change from object-oriented view of service: (service httpd > restart) to function-oriented (systemctl restart firewall) seems to be > unnecessary, and counter to the way stuff is generally done in the > modern world. Nonetheless, it was possible to solve that with some > adaptive script programming.The service command still works as a wrapper around systemctl. chkconfig won't work, but you probably won't be scripting that anyways. Other than that, I don't like systemd much either, but that topic has been talked to death.> 4) Something with Unknown lvalue 'ControlGroup' in section 'Service' > I don't know what to do with this. I constantly get the diagnostic: > [/usr/lib/systemd/system/rtkit-daemon.service:32] Unknown lvalue > 'ControlGroup' in section 'Service' > and attempts to browse the internet for solutions come across barriers > that require some paid subscription to view. This is currently a > progress-stopper. The messages I see deal with boinc, which does not > show up on my system using "rpm -qa | grep -i boinc".I have no idea bout this. Feel free to check bugzilla, and/or file a bug report.> 5) Sendmail is out, postfix is in. > This is a huge change, since I had lots of scripts that tailored the > Sendmail system for spam protection, dealing with SmartHosts that > required SMTP-AUTH and others required weird configurations, etc. > Whether this is working yet I don't quite know, but it seems the scripts > can accommodate the change.yum remove postfix && yum install sendmail Sendmail is still there, it's just not the default. If you prefer sendmail then by all means use it.> 7) Lack of 32-bit support > I think I understand this. After all, 32-bit machines may become > "unusable" when the clock overflows, but isn't that a few years away, > and couldn't some solution be found, even if kludgy? Some of the 32-bit > hardware was of very high quality, and still runs perfectly. I'd hate > to spend a few hundred dollars each to replace all those systems.I can understand this from RedHat's perspective, CentOS is workign on a 32 bit build, but it takes time. Peter
On Thu, Oct 30, 2014 at 05:45:58PM -0700, david wrote:> Folks > > I'm sure the Centos team has done a yeoman's job getting Centos7 > ready, and that the Redhat team has done marvels in creating rhel7, > but here's a little voice from a personal hobbyist user. > > Background: > ('ve been maintaining several remote servers since Redhat 6 days, > migrating from that to Whitebox, then Centos, and things have been > running as expected including the current version of Centos6. As an > experiment, I've tried to play with Centos7 on an in-house virtual > machine (VMWare on Win7), and have encountered a collection of > annoyances greater than I've even seen. Below is a note about them. > If someone has some elegant solution, I'd love to try, but Centos7 > is still unusable for me. ><snip>> 5) Sendmail is out, postfix is in. > This is a huge change, since I had lots of scripts that tailored > the Sendmail system for spam protection, dealing with SmartHosts > that required SMTP-AUTH and others required weird configurations, > etc. Whether this is working yet I don't quite know, but it seems > the scripts can accommodate the change.FYI, you can install sendmail, it's still available if you want it, it is just no longer the default: yum install sendmail someday when I move my home system (combined workstation, play-on-it system, and server) to EL7 I'll be installing Sendmail, simply because I want to "leverage" all the pain I went through over the years to create my own sendmail.mc file, and don't feel like going thru it again with another MTA.> > 6) Installation > I have no idea why, when using the net-install, one must explicitly > turn on the network. It seems unnecessary.I have quibbles with the new installer, and that's only a small-ish one. I think a "guided" install (like the old Anaconda) is much better because you don't have to guess what should be done next.> > 7) Lack of 32-bit support > I think I understand this. After all, 32-bit machines may become > "unusable" when the clock overflows, but isn't that a few years > away, and couldn't some solution be found, even if kludgy? Some of > the 32-bit hardware was of very high quality, and still runs > perfectly. I'd hate to spend a few hundred dollars each to replace > all those systems.I believe there are people working on this, it's just not yet ready for prime time. It's probably harder than it would have been simply becauase RH did not provide the info/scripts/tools for doing a 32-bit build. <snip> -- ---- Fred Smith -- fredex at fcshome.stoneham.ma.us ----------------------------- The Lord detests the way of the wicked but he loves those who pursue righteousness. ----------------------------- Proverbs 15:9 (niv) -----------------------------
On Thu, Oct 30, 2014 at 05:45:58PM -0700, david wrote:> 1: Firewall changesRemove firewalld; install iptables. Problem solved. This has been discussed ad nauseum on this list recently.> 2: Apache changesNot RedHat specific issues; that's just progress from upstream.> 3: Service -> systemdThis one _is_ nasty; it means you didn't properly use upstart in RH6, but then again who did? We all stuck with standard init scripts :-)> 5) Sendmail is out, postfix is in.Only a default; sendmail is still there to install if you need it.> 7) Lack of 32-bit support > I think I understand this. After all, 32-bit machines may become > "unusable" when the clock overflows, but isn't that a few years away,You've misunderstood kernel support and "type" support. We've had 64bit filesizes for many years on 32bit kernels. Changing time_t to 64bits is independent of the hardware being 32 or 64 bit. Basically, RHEL is Enterprise (the E); very very few enterprises have 32bit machines any more. -- rgds Stephen
On 10/30/2014 07:45 PM, david wrote:> Folks > > I'm sure the Centos team has done a yeoman's job getting Centos7 ready, > and that the Redhat team has done marvels in creating rhel7, but here's > a little voice from a personal hobbyist user. > > Background: > ('ve been maintaining several remote servers since Redhat 6 days, > migrating from that to Whitebox, then Centos, and things have been > running as expected including the current version of Centos6. As an > experiment, I've tried to play with Centos7 on an in-house virtual > machine (VMWare on Win7), and have encountered a collection of > annoyances greater than I've even seen. Below is a note about them. If > someone has some elegant solution, I'd love to try, but Centos7 is still > unusable for me. > > 1: Firewall changes > The change in firewall technology forced a complete re-do of my scripts > which maintain firewalls, respond to attacks, etc. I think I've > programmed my way around the issues, but it wasn't easy. > > 2: Apache changes > These were subtle, but again were solved. > > 3: Service -> systemd > The change from object-oriented view of service: (service httpd > restart) to function-oriented (systemctl restart firewall) seems to be > unnecessary, and counter to the way stuff is generally done in the > modern world. Nonetheless, it was possible to solve that with some > adaptive script programming. > > 4) Something with Unknown lvalue 'ControlGroup' in section 'Service' > I don't know what to do with this. I constantly get the diagnostic: > [/usr/lib/systemd/system/rtkit-daemon.service:32] Unknown lvalue > 'ControlGroup' in section 'Service' > and attempts to browse the internet for solutions come across barriers > that require some paid subscription to view. This is currently a > progress-stopper. The messages I see deal with boinc, which does not > show up on my system using "rpm -qa | grep -i boinc". > > 5) Sendmail is out, postfix is in. > This is a huge change, since I had lots of scripts that tailored the > Sendmail system for spam protection, dealing with SmartHosts that > required SMTP-AUTH and others required weird configurations, etc. > Whether this is working yet I don't quite know, but it seems the scripts > can accommodate the change. > > 6) Installation > I have no idea why, when using the net-install, one must explicitly > turn on the network. It seems unnecessary. > > 7) Lack of 32-bit support > I think I understand this. After all, 32-bit machines may become > "unusable" when the clock overflows, but isn't that a few years away, > and couldn't some solution be found, even if kludgy? Some of the 32-bit > hardware was of very high quality, and still runs perfectly. I'd hate > to spend a few hundred dollars each to replace all those systems. > > 8) And moreNOTE: You can continue to use CentOS-6 until 2020 ... CentOS-7 is an option, not at all required for 6 more years. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 198 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: <http://lists.centos.org/pipermail/centos/attachments/20141031/c20f8785/attachment-0002.sig>
david <david at daku.org> writes:> I'm sure the Centos team has done a yeoman's job getting Centos7 > ready, and that the Redhat team has done marvels in creating rhel7, > but here's a little voice from a personal hobbyist user.I'm not sure why you're voicing these here. Since CentOS matches RHEL bug-for-bug, you'd stand a better chance of getting your voice heard by talking to Red Hat.> If someone has some elegant solution, I'd love to try, but Centos7 is > still unusable for me.Define "unusable". Clearly it's objectively untrue that it's "unusable" because many people are in fact using it.> 1: Firewall changes > The change in firewall technology forced a complete re-do of my > scripts which maintain firewalls, respond to attacks, etc. I think > I've programmed my way around the issues, but it wasn't easy.So...you've already done the work to adapt your current setup.> 2: Apache changes > These were subtle, but again were solved.Not sure what you're referring to here, but again, you've already done the work.> 3: Service -> systemd > The change from object-oriented view of service: (service httpd > restart) to function-oriented (systemctl restart firewall) seems to be > unnecessary, and counter to the way stuff is generally done in the > modern world. Nonetheless, it was possible to solve that with some > adaptive script programming.systemd, like it or not, appears to be the current future of Linux, with essentially every distribution adopting it. I can't say I'm a huge fan of this trend, but it is what it is. And again, you've already done the work.> 4) Something with Unknown lvalue 'ControlGroup' in section 'Service' > I don't know what to do with this. I constantly get the diagnostic: > [/usr/lib/systemd/system/rtkit-daemon.service:32] Unknown lvalue > ControlGroup' in section 'Service' > and attempts to browse the internet for solutions come across > barriers that require some paid subscription to view. This is > currently a progress-stopper. The messages I see deal with boinc, > which does not show up on my system using "rpm -qa | grep -i boinc".A quick glance at https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=999986 makes this look to be primarily a logging issue. Obviously it should get fixed, since it's a bug, but I don't understand why this is a "progress-stopper". Or am I misreading?> 5) Sendmail is out, postfix is in. > This is a huge change, since I had lots of scripts that tailored the > Sendmail system for spam protection, dealing with SmartHosts that > required SMTP-AUTH and others required weird configurations, etc. > Whether this is working yet I don't quite know, but it seems the > scripts can accommodate the change.# yum install sendmail{,-cf,-doc}> 6) Installation > I have no idea why, when using the net-install, one must explicitly > turn on the network. It seems unnecessary.That's a fair point, but presumably one Red Hat would have to answer.> 7) Lack of 32-bit support > I think I understand this. After all, 32-bit machines may become > "unusable" when the clock overflows, but isn't that a few years away, > and couldn't some solution be found, even if kludgy? Some of the > 32-bit hardware was of very high quality, and still runs perfectly. > I'd hate to spend a few hundred dollars each to replace all those > systems.As far as I know, there's no solution to be found. The 32-bit address space is just too small. Wikipedia says that 64-bit processors have been around since 1961, though for most uses (i.e., Intel/AMD) they only became practical starting in 2003, which is still over a decade ago. Practically speaking, at some point you'll inevitably have to replace those systems anyway. Wouldn't you rather do it on a planned schedule than as disaster recovery when something fails? When doing so, you might as well go to 64-bit.> 8) And moreDon't know what this means.> I haven't got a server or desktop running to my satisfaction yet, so I > don't yet know what pitfalls await. Any advice would be appreciated.My advice is to read the documentation.