CentOS - Aug 2009 - Dangerous Software Raid instructions on Wiki

http://wiki.centos.org/HowTos/SoftwareRAIDonCentOS5

has:

dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/sda bs=512 count=64
dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/sdb bs=512 count=64

Will the joker who put in this particular gem without any warnings or a 
clear explanation for those who need a clueby4 with regards to file 
systems please either remove the instructions or add a very clear 
warning that damage to file systems that is not recoverable will result 
if run on the wrong disk(s).

My successor at my previous job has gleefully followed those 
instructions (he seriously needs a clueby4 which is why he bothers to 
actually read HowTos) and on a production box (who wants pop-corn and 
soda? Sorry, the er support conversation will not be on irc) and I think 
this seriously highlights the need for HowTo writers to seriously 
consider their audience as dumb monkeys that just follow whatever you 
tell them to do without thinking if you do not list out things they 
first have to think about or questions they first need to answer.

Christopher

Chan Chung Hang Christopher wrote:
> http://wiki.centos.org/HowTos/SoftwareRAIDonCentOS5
> 
> has:
> 
> dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/sda bs=512 count=64
> dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/sdb bs=512 count=64
> 
> Will the joker who put in this particular gem without any warnings or a 
> clear explanation for those who need a clueby4 with regards to file 
> systems please either remove the instructions or add a very clear 
> warning that damage to file systems that is not recoverable will result 
> if run on the wrong disk(s).
> 
> My successor at my previous job has gleefully followed those 
> instructions (he seriously needs a clueby4 which is why he bothers to 
> actually read HowTos) and on a production box (who wants pop-corn and 
> soda? Sorry, the er support conversation will not be on irc) and I think 
> this seriously highlights the need for HowTo writers to seriously 
> consider their audience as dumb monkeys that just follow whatever you 
> tell them to do without thinking if you do not list out things they 
> first have to think about or questions they first need to answer.
The document's first sentence clearly states the purpose of the document:

"This article addresses the setting up of a software (mdraid) RAID1 at 
install time on systems without a true hardware RAID* controller."

The part being important here is "install time." So I think it's
pretty
clear. Is it the document writer's fault that other didn't read this 
part? I don't think so.

Regards,
Max

On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 10:41:10PM +0800, Chan Chung Hang Christopher
wrote:
> http://wiki.centos.org/HowTos/SoftwareRAIDonCentOS5
> 
> has:
> 
> dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/sda bs=512 count=64
> dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/sdb bs=512 count=64
> 
> Will the joker who put in this particular gem without any warnings or a 
> clear explanation for those who need a clueby4 with regards to file 
> systems please either remove the instructions or add a very clear 
> warning that damage to file systems that is not recoverable will result 
> if run on the wrong disk(s).
> 
> My successor at my previous job has gleefully followed those 
> instructions (he seriously needs a clueby4 which is why he bothers to 
> actually read HowTos) and on a production box (who wants pop-corn and 
> soda? Sorry, the er support conversation will not be on irc) and I think 
> this seriously highlights the need for HowTo writers to seriously 
> consider their audience as dumb monkeys that just follow whatever you 
> tell them to do without thinking if you do not list out things they 
> first have to think about or questions they first need to answer.
> 
> Christopher
Dumb people will find ways to be dumb no matter how much you dumb
things down... :)

Your "successor" could easily have followed the above instructions on
the completely wrong system as well or done something eqaully
destructive with another command in that or other HOWTO's...

Nothing wrong with putting a warning or replacing "sd[ab]" with
something bogus though if the authors like.

Ray

Chan Chung Hang Christopher wrote:
> http://wiki.centos.org/HowTos/SoftwareRAIDonCentOS5
> 
> has:
> 
> dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/sda bs=512 count=64
> dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/sdb bs=512 count=64
> 
> Will the joker who put in this particular gem without any warnings or a 
> clear explanation for those who need a clueby4 with regards to file 
> systems please either remove the instructions or add a very clear 
> warning that damage to file systems that is not recoverable will result 
> if run on the wrong disk(s).
> 
> My successor at my previous job has gleefully followed those 
> instructions (he seriously needs a clueby4 which is why he bothers to 
> actually read HowTos) and on a production box (who wants pop-corn and 
> soda? Sorry, the er support conversation will not be on irc) and I think 
> this seriously highlights the need for HowTo writers to seriously 
> consider their audience as dumb monkeys that just follow whatever you 
> tell them to do without thinking if you do not list out things they 
> first have to think about or questions they first need to answer.
> 
> Christopher
This should be directed to the -docs list, not here.

Thanks

At Wed, 12 Aug 2009 22:41:10 +0800 CentOS mailing list <centos at
centos.org> wrote:
> 
> http://wiki.centos.org/HowTos/SoftwareRAIDonCentOS5
> 
> has:
> 
> dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/sda bs=512 count=64
> dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/sdb bs=512 count=64
> 
> Will the joker who put in this particular gem without any warnings or a 
> clear explanation for those who need a clueby4 with regards to file 
> systems please either remove the instructions or add a very clear 
> warning that damage to file systems that is not recoverable will result 
> if run on the wrong disk(s).
> 
> My successor at my previous job has gleefully followed those 
> instructions (he seriously needs a clueby4 which is why he bothers to 
> actually read HowTos) and on a production box (who wants pop-corn and 
> soda? Sorry, the er support conversation will not be on irc) and I think 
> this seriously highlights the need for HowTo writers to seriously 
> consider their audience as dumb monkeys that just follow whatever you 
> tell them to do without thinking if you do not list out things they 
> first have to think about or questions they first need to answer.
Yes indeed!  Do we need an article titled "dd considered dangerious"?
> 
> Christopher
> _______________________________________________
> CentOS mailing list
> CentOS at centos.org
> http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
> 
>                                            
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Deepwoods Software        -- Download the Model Railroad System
http://www.deepsoft.com/  -- Binaries for Linux and MS-Windows
heller at deepsoft.com       -- http://www.deepsoft.com/ModelRailroadSystem/

Chan Chung Hang Christopher wrote:
> http://wiki.centos.org/HowTos/SoftwareRAIDonCentOS5
> 
> has:
> 
> dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/sda bs=512 count=64
> dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/sdb bs=512 count=64
> 
> Will the joker who put in this particular gem without any warnings or a 
> clear explanation for those who need a clueby4 with regards to file 
> systems please either remove the instructions or add a very clear 
> warning that damage to file systems that is not recoverable will result 
> if run on the wrong disk(s).
> 
> My successor at my previous job has gleefully followed those 
> instructions (he seriously needs a clueby4 which is why he bothers to 
> actually read HowTos) and on a production box (who wants pop-corn and 
> soda? Sorry, the er support conversation will not be on irc) and I think 
> this seriously highlights the need for HowTo writers to seriously 
> consider their audience as dumb monkeys that just follow whatever you 
> tell them to do without thinking if you do not list out things they 
> first have to think about or questions they first need to answer.
Just to make it even clearer and thwart any further damages, I edited 
the page to include:

"This article addresses the setting up of a software (mdraid) RAID1 at 
install time on systems without a true hardware RAID* controller. The 
following dd commands will destroy all information on the disks. If you 
have data on the drives that you need access to, please backup the drives."

If anyone destroys any other production systems, it's their own fault if 
they can't read the guide in the first paragraph and understand.

Now, let this thread die on this list, or take it over to the docs list 
to continue.

Regards,
Max

REPLY-TO: <183c528b0908121238k33c407ah18e4762c48652de4 at mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, 12 Aug 2009 15:38:00 -0400
Brian Mathis <brian.mathis at gmail.com>

>
> It also helps to understand how people read instructions.  When
> they look at a page, they see {big blob of useless introduction
> text}, then they see "Step 1, do this".  They almost always go
> right to Step 1.
>
> I'd bet $100 that everyone reading this thread has done that more
> than once, recently.  It's not good enough to put the warnings so
> far separated from the actual commands.  You might have some
> feelings about how things *should* be done, but you don't get to
> make that decision for people, you just need to know it and work
> within it.
"Code Complete" has an entire section on why variables should only
be declared immediately before they are used.  This is essentially
the same issue in a different guise.
>
> As far as the replies here go, the first one insinuates that the
> person can't follow instructions, the second one calls the person
> dumb, and others say that the person is incompetent, and compares
> their intelligence to that of a bottle.  That IS rude and arrogant
> in my book, and your final sentence only continues with the
> passive-aggressive swiping that goes on too often in IT realms.
>
Well, I find that the real problem is more often the medium, not the
messenger.  The immediacy of E-Mail simply does not promote the
reflective approach required to create effective written
communication.  However, what can be compensated for by body
language when stated in person may project a brusque and
contemptuous tone in writing so that failing to take the necessary
time extracts its cost in needless upset and conflict.

There are a few other things that people should really consider
before they dash off their offhand remarks.  Firstly, it is unwise
to shout at ones watchman, for the next time they see something
suspicious then they may remember the first occasion and hold their
tongue. If somebody senses something is wrong then they should be
civilly treated when they bring it to our attention.  Even if their
concern is the result of their misapprehension this is a sign that
perhaps the information provided needs revisiting and revision.  I
doubt that anyone could reasonably hold up the documentation of most
software as exemplars of clarity and comprehensiveness.

Secondly, not all of us, I speculate that not even most of us, work
in large organisations.  In fact, I would venture to guess that most
people using CentOS are found in small shops or even sole
practitioner sites.  So, railing about how things should be run
given infinite resources and time simply of flies in the face of the
realities surrounding OSS utilisation and is completely useless.

Thirdly, the Net has a surfeit of nannies. If you are not yourself
going to deal with the issue raised then keep silent. If the 'signal
to noise' ratio is bothering you then at least withhold your own
contribution to the noise.

-- 
***          E-Mail is NOT a SECURE channel          ***
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