CentOS - Dec 2006 - [OT] Linux/CentOS Volunteer or PT Work

Hi All,

I'm pretty new to this list and to CentOS, so forgive me if this kind of
thing is shunned.  I have really enjoyed following some threads on this list
and learning what everyone out there is doing with the OS.  I actually got
started on CentOS when researching how to study for the RHCE without forking
out big cash for Red Hat licenses, a donation is coming soon.

Anyway, I'm looking to do some part time Linux work (I'll work cheap,
possibly free for a non-profit) and would like some suggestions on how
others on the list have found odd job work.  My goal with this work is to
get some resume building Linux experience, help me pass the RHCE exam, and
ultimately begin doing contact work or move into a full-time Linux/Unix
position.  I have two years experience administering HP-UX and Sun Solaris
for a University, about 8 years total IT experience, and I've used Linux at
home since 1998 or so; I just need some "real-world" Linux experience.
I
feel confident I can accomplish just about any Linux project using my broad
background of experience and learning a little along the way.

The main problem I see is that I only have 10-15 hours per week to give
this, as I have a full-time IT job as well, so flexibility on time of
day/time of week of work is key.

Thanks,
Nick

PS: Without starting a holy flame war, how do you all feel about the RHCE
exam?  Other preferred exams?  I know exams mean very little in comparison
to experience, but I feel without much "real world" experience on
Linux it
may be a good start at getting the first gig...
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> PS: Without starting a holy flame war, how do you all feel about the 
> RHCE exam?  Other preferred exams?  I know exams mean very little in 
> comparison to experience, but I feel without much "real world" 
> experience on Linux it may be a good start at getting the first gig...
The RHCE exam is the only one that tries to test your mettle via actual 
practical tests. On this count I personally perfer it to the LPI exams 
which can be overcome by a 'brain dump' without any actual work 
experience. That is besides the fact that sometimes the LPI has faulty 
concepts behind some of the questions such as the stupid 'How much swap 
should you have?' of which the LPI correct answer is double your RAM.

You are correct that exams mean very little in comparison to experience. 
The RHCE will cover the basics of administration but real life will 
usually call for more knowledge and skill than what is tested. That goes 
even more strongly for the dumb LPI. Coupled with the fact that to get 
the LPI level 2 certificate actually costs more than trying to get the 
RHCE assuming success on all tests kind of makes it a no brainer.

Then again, with your eight years of experience, do you really think 
that a professional certificate will make a difference? Any reasonable 
manager who understands Unix/Linux should have no problem hiring you on 
that basis.

On 12/5/2006 9:49 PM, Nick Webb wrote:
>
> PS: Without starting a holy flame war, how do you all feel about the
> RHCE exam?  Other preferred exams?  I know exams mean very little in
> comparison to experience, but I feel without much "real world"
> experience on Linux it may be a good start at getting the first gig...
I think the best thing to "get started" is to get some virtual server,
administer it and try not to get somebody break into it. As a boss I'd
rather be interested in you telling me that you've already rescued some
just hacked machine from being further destroyed than showing me some
exam paper, except for the case the company's toilet just ran out of ... :)
ciao - Michael

-- 
Michael Kress, kress at hal.saar.de
http://www.michael-kress.de / http://kress.net
P E N G U I N S   A R E   C O O L

This IS a "holy war" kind of question!  :-)

Most people have strong opinions about this topic and tend to be very black and
white about "this way is the best!".

In the real world, different things impress different employers. Some employers
give a lot of credibility to certifications, some don't.

If you're trying to get a break into a certain niche, every little bit
helps. The RCHE cert does require hands on effort, so it's not looked at as
a "paper certification". Your IT background is pretty decent anyway,
so it's not like you're really starting from scratch. Especially the
Solaris and HP experience is relevant to administering Linux.

Btw, I got started with CentOS for the same reason as you. I wanted to pursue
the RHCE and couldn't afford to fork out the cash for a Redhat license. (Are
you listening Redhat? CentOS is bringing you business because it helps IT people
get experience and eventually certification with your product!)

PG

 -------------- Original message ----------------------
From: "Nick Webb" <webbn at acm.org>
> Hi All,
> 
> I'm pretty new to this list and to CentOS, so forgive me if this kind
of
> thing is shunned.  I have really enjoyed following some threads on this
list
> and learning what everyone out there is doing with the OS.  I actually got
> started on CentOS when researching how to study for the RHCE without
forking
> out big cash for Red Hat licenses, a donation is coming soon.
> 
> Anyway, I'm looking to do some part time Linux work (I'll work
cheap,
> possibly free for a non-profit) and would like some suggestions on how
> others on the list have found odd job work.  My goal with this work is to
> get some resume building Linux experience, help me pass the RHCE exam, and
> ultimately begin doing contact work or move into a full-time Linux/Unix
> position.  I have two years experience administering HP-UX and Sun Solaris
> for a University, about 8 years total IT experience, and I've used
Linux at
> home since 1998 or so; I just need some "real-world" Linux
experience.  I
> feel confident I can accomplish just about any Linux project using my broad
> background of experience and learning a little along the way.
> 
> The main problem I see is that I only have 10-15 hours per week to give
> this, as I have a full-time IT job as well, so flexibility on time of
> day/time of week of work is key.
> 
> Thanks,
> Nick
> 
> PS: Without starting a holy flame war, how do you all feel about the RHCE
> exam?  Other preferred exams?  I know exams mean very little in comparison
> to experience, but I feel without much "real world" experience on
Linux it
> may be a good start at getting the first gig...

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PG,

On 12/6/06, techlists at comcast.net <techlists at comcast.net>
wrote:
>
> If you're trying to get a break into a certain niche, every little bit
> helps. The RCHE cert does require hands on effort, so it's not looked
at as
> a "paper certification". Your IT background is pretty decent
anyway, so it's
> not like you're really starting from scratch. Especially the Solaris
and HP
> experience is relevant to administering Linux.
>
> Btw, I got started with CentOS for the same reason as you. I wanted to
> pursue the RHCE and couldn't afford to fork out the cash for a Redhat
> license. (Are you listening Redhat? CentOS is bringing you business because
> it helps IT people get experience and eventually certification with your
> product!)
>
> PG
>
So did you end up getting your RHCE or did you decide it wasn't work
the trouble for the benefit?

Nick

-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: "Nick Webb" <webbn at acm.org>
> PG,
> 
> >
> 
> So did you end up getting your RHCE or did you decide it wasn't work
> the trouble for the benefit?
> 
> Nick
No, I didn't get it yet, but it's still on my to-do list.

I always get pulled into Windows related projects with my current employer
because my professional experience is more Windows heavy. I would like to get on
a project that involves Redhat, but can't see that happening unless I give
them some kind of justification that I have some level of competence with Linux.

Direct job related experience with Linux, of course, would be the best. But if
you don't have that experience, and you can't get the opportunity to get
it it because you don't have previous experience (the old catch-22), then a
fairly well regarded cert is going to help justify giving you a chance. The cert
on its own probably won't clinch anything for you, but the cert plus other
real world experiences here and there might do the trick.

PG

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techlists at comcast.net wrote:
> This IS a "holy war" kind of question!  :-)
> 
> Most people have strong opinions about this topic and tend to be very black
and white about "this way is the best!".
> 
> In the real world, different things impress different employers. Some
employers give a lot of credibility to certifications, some don't.
> 
> If you're trying to get a break into a certain niche, every little bit
helps. The RCHE cert does require hands on effort, so it's not looked at as
a "paper certification". Your IT background is pretty decent anyway,
so it's not like you're really starting from scratch. Especially the
Solaris and HP experience is relevant to administering Linux.
> 
> Btw, I got started with CentOS for the same reason as you. I wanted to
pursue the RHCE and couldn't afford to fork out the cash for a Redhat
license. (Are you listening Redhat? CentOS is bringing you business because it
helps IT people get experience and eventually certification with your product!)
> 
> PG

I agree with your remarks. My first and only IT job, where I still am
today, was given to me because I was hired to help do a network upgrade
with new Windows PCs. I have an MCSA (Yippie) and was the reason for
initial contact with my company.

My boss is an advocate of open source, and so after my hiring he kept me
from creeping further over into the dark side of things. I'm still in
charge of maintaining the 'Doze clients, but I also assist with admin
duties on the network and dealing with all the servers which are all
Linux with the exception of one 'Doze server, and an AIX box. We
maintain several Red Hat machines, but the rest are CentOS based, which
is how I entered into the CentOS list here.

With that said, I completely agree with PG here. Every employer is
completely different. My employer doesn't really respond a lot to
certifications, particularly my boss. He's more interested in knowing
what I can do for the company. Don't get me wrong, they like to see that
I'm learning things, and recently have paid for a few online classes for
things such as HTML and an upcoming SQL class, but for the most part
they just want the problems to be solved and the network to remain up.

They are more interested in the skills that you can apply in real work
environments, and they absolutely love if an employee takes initiative
and learns on their own time as well. My boss does a wonderful job of
remembering these kinds of things come review time. (I know you're
reading this, and no, I'm not intentionally sucking up.;))

Without sounding like I'm rambling, I think you really have to take each
employer and situation differently. Some managers are paper pushers only
and have no real world experience themselves, and therefor they look at
the paper certs and think the person automatically knows what they are
doing. Whereas, like mine, some don't really care and are more
interested in performance, and what you can do for them to solve problems.

I haven't taken the RHCE yet, but I really do plan on it someday just
for personal satisfaction. I know in my situation it will be taken only
for that, and not because my employer requires it to be taken.

Here's just my opinion from an IT shop that doesn't really look at the
paper. :)

Max



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