CentOS - May 2005 - Installing CentOS on RAID PATA not SATA - A8V

I'm trying to install CentOS 4 on an A8V on the
PATA/Raid drives on the Promise controller.  The
Promise controller is recognized (sata_promise), but
the PATA drives are not recognized.  Base on this
thread

https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=147303

it seems that there is a patch which was merged in
2.6.11 to get pata working.

Any ideas how to proceed?


Thanks in advance

Regards
Bogdan

If you want just ATA/SATA support of single drives, that will work.
The RAID functionality will never work, because it is 100% software-based
(the 16-bit BIOS setup is just for boot-time).

I call this "FRAID" and it is not hardware RAID (it adds *0*
hardware).
Any drivers will be proprietary and not open source, because they
contain RAID code licensed from a 3rd party that is not GPL (and
never will be, because it is the core IP of that 3rd party and the
lifeblood of their business).

There are independent, clean room GPL drivers (ataraid + pdcraid),
but they are likely to corrupt your volume -- especially on newer
FRAID BIOSes that may change the organization.

-----Original Message-----
From: Bogdan Nicolescu <bo2k2 at yahoo.com>
Sent: May 18, 2005 3:31 PM
To: CentOS mailing list <centos at centos.org>
Subject: [CentOS] Installing CentOS  on RAID PATA  not SATA - A8V

I'm trying to install CentOS 4 on an A8V on the
PATA/Raid drives on the Promise controller.  The
Promise controller is recognized (sata_promise), but
the PATA drives are not recognized.  Base on this
thread

https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=147303

it seems that there is a patch which was merged in
2.6.11 to get pata working.

Any ideas how to proceed?


Thanks in advance

Regards
Bogdan


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CentOS at centos.org
http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos


--
Bryan J. Smith   mailto:b.j.smith at ieee.org

--- Chris Mauritz <chrism at imntv.com> wrote:
> Bryan J. Smith <b.j.smith at ieee.org> wrote:
> 
> >If you want just ATA/SATA support of single drives,
> that will work.
> >The RAID functionality will never work, because it
> is 100% software-based
> >(the 16-bit BIOS setup is just for boot-time).
> >
> >I call this "FRAID" and it is not hardware RAID (it
> adds *0* hardware).
> >Any drivers will be proprietary and not open
> source, because they
> >contain RAID code licensed from a 3rd party that is
> not GPL (and
> >never will be, because it is the core IP of that
> 3rd party and the
> >lifeblood of their business).
> >
> >  
> >
> 
> Be very 'FRAID.  8-)  If it was me, I'd figure out
> how to get the drives 
> recognized as plain old ATA drives and then use the
> software RAID 
> striping native to Linux rather than depend on the
> promise card to do 
> anything other than act as an ATA controller.  I
> think the likelihood of 
> roaching the volume while depending on the promise
> software RAID bandaid 
> is probably rather high for no performance payoff
> whatsoever.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> C
> _______________________________________________
> CentOS mailing list
> CentOS at centos.org
> http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
> 
My first attempt at RAID...

Tried a different distribution with the latest kernel,
and indeed the PTA drives on the Promise controller
were recognized but they were recognized as two
separate drives while the controller was in RAID mode
(rather than IDE mode).

Are you saying that even if the drives are recognized,
I will not be able to implement RAID in hardware mode?

Any other options installing CenOS 4 on unsupported hd
controller besides:

a. install CentOS 4 while drive in recognized hd
controller

b. get new kernel 

c. compile/install new kernel (without pulling my hair
out)

d. move drives to unsupported hd controller

e. set controller to IDE mode

f. boot using new kernel (while praying)

g. do software RAID
---------------------------------


TIA
Bogdan

Thanks for the detailed information.  Starting to make
sense.

Bogdan


--- "Bryan J. Smith" <b.j.smith at ieee.org>
wrote:
> On Wed, 2005-05-18 at 20:23 -0700, Bogdan Nicolescu
> wrote:
> > My first attempt at RAID...
> 
> I purposely call it Fake/Free RAID (FRAID) for a
> reason.
> It is a _regular_ ATA controller with *0* extra
> hardware.
> There is a "trick" 16-bit BIOS that can setup some
> RAID
> organization.
> 
> It is _useless_ once a 32/64-bit OS boots.
> 
> > Tried a different distribution with the latest
> kernel,
> > and indeed the PTA drives on the Promise
> controller
> > were recognized but they were recognized as two
> > separate drives while the controller was in RAID
> mode
> > (rather than IDE mode).
> 
> Correct.  Because the system sees the "raw" ATA
> channels.
> There must be a "trick" 32/64-bit driver to match
> the
> "trick" 16-bit BIOS.
> 
> This "trick" 32/64-bit driver contains _all_ of the
> RAID functionality.  *0* is in the hardware, because
> the
> hardware has *0* RAID firmware other than the
> ultra-simple
> stripe/mirror access when the 16-bit BIOS is
> booting.
> 
> About the same 2-3 companies write these drivers,
> and
> _all_ vendors license that code.  Because it is the
> core
> IP of those companies, they will _never_ release it.
> As such, the drivers are _always_ "closed source"
> and
> really only available for Windows.  The few
> companies that 
> do release Linux drivers release kernel
> version-specific
> ones that are binary-only, no source code.
> 
> There is a "clean-room" GPL ATA RAID driver in
> ataraid.c.
> And then interface drivers in hptraid.c, pdcraid.c
> and
> silraid.c, but they _rarely_ work with most "FRAID"
> cards accept for very old ones.  And they are
> _slower_
> than the OS' RAID (NT LDM, Linux LVM/MD, etc...).
> 
> > Are you saying that even if the drives are
> recognized,
> > I will not be able to implement RAID in hardware
> mode?
> 
> There is _no_ "hardware" mode.  The system _always_
> sees
> the drives.  There must be a "trick" driver to
> "hide" the
> drives and make them seem organized.
> 
> A _true_ hardware RAID controller _always_ has
> on-board
> intelligence that directly controls the drives, and
> has
> the RAID firmware on-board.  In those cases, the
> system
> talks to that on-board intelligence (e.g.,
> microcontroller
> or ASIC) and _never_ actually sees the drives. 
> Because
> all of the RAID intelligence is in the firmware, the
> OS
> driver is just a basic block driver, so they are
> GPL.
> 
> Examples of true hardware ATA RAID include Promise
> SuperTrak
> (_not_ the FastTrak), Adaptec 2400A/2800A, some (but
> not
> all) LSI Logic MegaRAID and 3Ware Escalade products.
> 
> These cards cost between $125-$500+.  You will _not_
> find a _true_ hardware RAID controller on a
> mainboard.  ;->
> 
> > Any other options installing CenOS 4 on
> unsupported hd
> > controller besides:
> > a. install CentOS 4 while drive in recognized hd
> > controller
> > b. get new kernel 
> > c. compile/install new kernel (without pulling my
> hair
> > out)
> > d. move drives to unsupported hd controller
> > e. set controller to IDE mode
> > f. boot using new kernel (while praying)
> > g. do software RAID
> 
> Yes, software RAID is typically _faster_ than these
> FRAID cards.
> Why?  Because instead of using the logic of the
> FRAID controller,
> you get the logic of the OS' buffering.  The OS'
> buffering will
> commit writes and interleave reads far better than a
> FRAID
> controller's "trick" driver logic.
> 
> 
> -- 
> Bryan J. Smith                                
> b.j.smith at ieee.org 
>
-----------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Beware of those who define their preference in terms
> of hate of
> another option, and not on the positive merits of
> their selection
> 
> 
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