asterisk users - Nov 2010 - Incoming calls through SS7 for data modem transmissions - possible??

Hello,

We are working on implementing a solution for a medium service provider.
They were previously using a Cisco AS5300 gateway with some PRI trunks to
receive modem calls, then route them out the Internet.

The Telco they were buying the trunks to discovered this configuration and
restricted them due to legal conventions, and stated that in order to
continue doing this, they would have to talk SS7 directly.

We are planning on solving this by placing an Asterisk server with some
TE410 cards talking SS7 to Telco, and another 4 ISDN ports talking to the
AS5300 for the dial-up to complete after authenticating against a RADIUS
server.

My questions is: can we use only Asterisk to complete/terminate the dial-up
connection, removing the AS5300 out of the picture?

Current topology to be set-up:
Telco --> SS7 --> TE410P-AsteriskServer --> ISDN --> AS5300 -->
Internet

Ideal topology:
Telco --> SS7 --> TE410P-AsteriskServer --> Internet


Some posts talk about zapRAS being able to accomplish this, not quite sure
though

Sounds like possible:
http://lists.digium.com/pipermail/asterisk-users/2004-January/026956.html<asterisk-users
at lists.digium.com>

Sounds like not possible:
http://lists.digium.com/pipermail/asterisk-users/2009-November/240202.html


Thanks in advance,


*Jos? Pablo M?ndez
          *
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I am not sure where you are and what legal conventions are involved.

 

Are you saying the Telco (and legal restrictions) say you can?t send calls
to the internet via the AS5300 but you can if Asterisk does it directly?
What is the ?logic? in that?

 

Or are they saying your Telco to Asterisk trunks have to be SS7 controlled? 

 

Or are you concerned about Asterisk handling the TDM to IP conversion in an
adequate manner?

 

I am not sure/aware myself that Asterisk will do a modem to IP conversion.
I think in your example the AS5300 is doing that.

 

What is the Telco?s problem in doing what the customer was doing before?

 

Feel free to correspond directly if you want to.

 

Cary Fitch

 

  _____  

From: asterisk-users-bounces at lists.digium.com
[mailto:asterisk-users-bounces at lists.digium.com] On Behalf Of Jos? Pablo
M?ndez Soto
Sent: Wednesday, November 24, 2010 7:31 PM
To: asterisk-users at lists.digium.com
Subject: [asterisk-users] Incoming calls through SS7 for data
modemtransmissions - possible??

 

Hello,

We are working on implementing a solution for a medium service provider.
They were previously using a Cisco AS5300 gateway with some PRI trunks to
receive modem calls, then route them out the Internet.

The Telco they were buying the trunks to discovered this configuration and
restricted them due to legal conventions, and stated that in order to
continue doing this, they would have to talk SS7 directly.

We are planning on solving this by placing an Asterisk server with some
TE410 cards talking SS7 to Telco, and another 4 ISDN ports talking to the
AS5300 for the dial-up to complete after authenticating against a RADIUS
server.

My questions is: can we use only Asterisk to complete/terminate the dial-up
connection, removing the AS5300 out of the picture?

Current topology to be set-up:
Telco --> SS7 --> TE410P-AsteriskServer --> ISDN --> AS5300 -->
Internet

Ideal topology:
Telco --> SS7 --> TE410P-AsteriskServer --> Internet


Some posts talk about zapRAS being able to accomplish this, not quite sure
though

Sounds like possible:
http://lists.digium.com/pipermail/asterisk-users/2004-January/026956.html
<mailto:asterisk-users at lists.digium.com> 

Sounds like not possible:
http://lists.digium.com/pipermail/asterisk-users/2009-November/240202.html


Thanks in advance,


Jos? Pablo M?ndez
          

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Thanks Cary,

The first topology we are working on should be the best way then.

Asterisk will answer SS7 calls, route them to the ISDN channels to be
terminated by the AS5300 as they were doing before. I think TDM-2-TDM
shouldn't be that much of a problem eh? No further equipment needed?


*Jos? Pablo M?ndez
           *********


2010/11/24 Cary Fitch <caryf at usawide.net>
>  I understand the problem.  You can?t resell PRI connections.
>
>
>
> I don?t think Asterisk can convert TDM to IP.  It does convert TDM to SIP
> which is then sent out over IP.    What you want to do is have it do the
> TDM/Modem conversion without the PRIs and Cisco Gear.
>
>
>
> There used to be a way to do this, and maybe still is but not just with
> Asterisk perhaps.
>
>
>
> I know that Ascend/Lucent TNTs (and I am sure some other equipment)  could
> take TDM trunks, which could be SS7 trunks, and convert them to IP.
>
>
>
> The point in this is that they are SS7 based.  You can take SS7 trunks from
> either the Asterisk box or direct from the Telco and convert them to IP.
>
>
>
> NO PRIs involved.  Yes, more ?telco grade carrier equipment? but no PRIs.
>
>
>
> A lot of this equipment was available by the pound a few years back.
>
>
>
> Cary
>
>
>  ------------------------------
>
> *From:* Jos? Pablo M?ndez Soto [mailto:auxcri at gmail.com]
> *Sent:* Wednesday, November 24, 2010 8:34 PM
> *To:* Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion
> *Cc:* caryf at usawide.net
> *Subject:* Re: [asterisk-users] Incoming calls through SS7 for
> datamodemtransmissions - possible??
>
>
>
> Thanks Cary,
>
> What happens is, the Telco won't allow the small company to resell the
ISDN
> connections, meaning, they bought the trunks and DIDs, then sold dialing
> plans to route incoming calls through the PRIs out the Internet. This is
not
> the issue though. We definitely have to migrate to an SS7 capable platform,
> because that is the only way the Telco allows them to resell the dial-up
> connections (not ISDN), and Asterisk is the current bet.
>
> If we can get Asterisk to pick up those calls via SS7, then authenticate
> them, send them out to the Internet, we would be achieving a %100 usage on
> the Digium cards, because one of them wouldn't be used to talk to the
AS.
>
> Can Asterisk do this?
>
>
> Thanks again,
>
> *Jos? Pablo M?ndez**
>            *
>
>  On Wed, Nov 24, 2010 at 7:59 PM, Cary Fitch <caryf at usawide.net>
wrote:
>
> I am not sure where you are and what legal conventions are involved.
>
>
>
> Are you saying the Telco (and legal restrictions) say you can?t send calls
> to the internet via the AS5300 but you can if Asterisk does it directly?
> What is the ?logic? in that?
>
>
>
> Or are they saying your Telco to Asterisk trunks have to be SS7 controlled?
>
>
>
>
> Or are you concerned about Asterisk handling the TDM to IP conversion in an
> adequate manner?
>
>
>
> I am not sure/aware myself that Asterisk will do a modem to IP conversion.
> I think in your example the AS5300 is doing that.
>
>
>
> What is the Telco?s problem in doing what the customer was doing before?
>
>
>
> Feel free to correspond directly if you want to.
>
>
>
> Cary Fitch
>
>
>  ------------------------------
>
> *From:* asterisk-users-bounces at lists.digium.com [mailto:
> asterisk-users-bounces at lists.digium.com] *On Behalf Of *Jos? Pablo
M?ndez
> Soto
> *Sent:* Wednesday, November 24, 2010 7:31 PM
> *To:* asterisk-users at lists.digium.com
> *Subject:* [asterisk-users] Incoming calls through SS7 for data
> modemtransmissions - possible??
>
>
>
> Hello,
>
> We are working on implementing a solution for a medium service provider.
> They were previously using a Cisco AS5300 gateway with some PRI trunks to
> receive modem calls, then route them out the Internet.
>
> The Telco they were buying the trunks to discovered this configuration and
> restricted them due to legal conventions, and stated that in order to
> continue doing this, they would have to talk SS7 directly.
>
> We are planning on solving this by placing an Asterisk server with some
> TE410 cards talking SS7 to Telco, and another 4 ISDN ports talking to the
> AS5300 for the dial-up to complete after authenticating against a RADIUS
> server.
>
> My questions is: can we use only Asterisk to complete/terminate the dial-up
> connection, removing the AS5300 out of the picture?
>
> Current topology to be set-up:
> Telco --> SS7 --> TE410P-AsteriskServer --> ISDN --> AS5300
--> Internet
>
> Ideal topology:
> Telco --> SS7 --> TE410P-AsteriskServer --> Internet
>
>
> Some posts talk about zapRAS being able to accomplish this, not quite sure
> though
>
> Sounds like possible:
>
http://lists.digium.com/pipermail/asterisk-users/2004-January/026956.html<asterisk-users
at lists.digium.com>
>
> Sounds like not possible:
> http://lists.digium.com/pipermail/asterisk-users/2009-November/240202.html
>
>
> Thanks in advance,
>
>
> *Jos? Pablo M?ndez**
>           *
>
>
> --
> _____________________________________________________________________
> -- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com --
> New to Asterisk? Join us for a live introductory webinar every Thurs:
>               http://www.asterisk.org/hello
>
> asterisk-users mailing list
> To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
>   http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
>
>
>
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Thank you Horacio and Cary.

We will try receiving SS7, routing via SIP, answering on the AS5300, then
looping back to itself (out PRI, in PRI ports) in order to invoke the modem
termination. This way we may be able to spare the TDM cards in Asterisk and
reuse the E1 ports installed in the gateway.

Best regards,

*Jos? Pablo M?ndez
           *********


2010/11/24 Horacio J. Pe?a <horape at compendium.com.ar>
> Hola!
>
> ZapRAS seems to work only with ISDN calls. "This command is not for
use
> with
> analog lines; it does not provide a modem emulator."
> (http://www.voip-info.org/wiki/view/Asterisk+cmd+ZapRAS)
>
> You need something doing the modulation. It seems that iaxmodem is your
> best
> bet, and you'll have to make a good bunch of work on it to be able to
use
> as you
> want to.
>
> If your client has the cisco gateways, I'd suggest you to keep them.
They
> are
> very reliable and tested, and with MICA cards they have not a high resale
> value,
> so you'll probably end with them as paperweights unless you happen to
have
> some
> stack of C549 cards to repurpose them.
>
> Saludos,
> H
>
> On Wed, Nov 24, 2010 at 07:58:37PM -0600, Jos? Pablo M?ndez Soto wrote:
> >    Hello,
> >    We are working on implementing a solution for a medium service
> >    provider. They were previously using a Cisco AS5300 gateway with
some
> >    PRI trunks to receive modem calls, then route them out the
Internet.
> >    The Telco they were buying the trunks from, discovered this
> >    configuration and restricted them due to legal conventions, and
stated
> >    that in order to continue doing this, they would have to talk SS7
> >    directly.
> >    We are planning on solving this by placing an Asterisk server with
> some
> >    TE410 cards talking SS7 to Telco, and another 4 ISDN ports talking
to
> >    the AS5300 for the dial-up to complete after authenticating against
a
> >    RADIUS server.
> >    My questions is: can we use only Asterisk to complete/terminate the
> >    dial-up connection, removing the AS5300 out of the picture? We
would
> >    probably need a PPP channel configuration to link the modem
connection
> >    with the Internet.
> >    Current topology to be set-up:
> >    Telco --> SS7 --> TE410P-AsteriskServer --> ISDN -->
AS5300 -->
> >    Internet
> >    Ideal topology:
> >    Telco --> SS7 --> TE410P-AsteriskServer --> Internet
> >    Some posts talk about zapRAS being able to accomplish this, not
quite
> >    sure though
> >    Sounds like possible:
> >    [1]
> http://lists.digium.com/pipermail/asterisk-users/2004-January/026956
> >    .html
> >    [2]
> http://lists.digium.com/pipermail/asterisk-users/2009-November/24021
> >    8.html
> >    Sounds like not possible:
> >    [3]
> http://lists.digium.com/pipermail/asterisk-users/2009-November/24020
> >    2.html
> >    Thanks in advance,
> >    Jos? Pablo M?ndez
> >
> > References
> >
> >    1. mailto:asterisk-users at lists.digium.com
> >    2.
> http://lists.digium.com/pipermail/asterisk-users/2009-November/240218.html
> >    3.
> http://lists.digium.com/pipermail/asterisk-users/2009-November/240202.html
>
> > --
> > _____________________________________________________________________
> > -- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com --
> >
> > asterisk-ss7 mailing list
> > To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
> >    http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-ss7
>
>
> --
> Horacio J. Pe?a
> horape at compendium.com.ar
> horape at uninet.edu
>
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Just out of curiosity, what country are you in?

I agree with the others in this thread, this seems very bizzare that the
telco requires you to do SS7 for dialup connections.  I would ask them for
specifics about the "legal" issues with what you are doing - it sounds
to me
like they are just trying to upsell you on a more expensive product.

I am in Canada and we run exactly the configuration you are currently
doing... we still have dialup internet customers that dial into AS5300's via
PRI's.  Our telco has a PRI product gear specifically for this use... they
call it 'ISP-PRI' I'm not entirely sure what the restriction is on
it.... I
have also just kind of assumed that it is inbound calls only, but I've never
tried making outbound calls on them.  I do know they 25-30% cheaper than our
regular voice PRIs though.

--
Matt


2010/11/24 Jos? Pablo M?ndez Soto <auxcri at gmail.com>
> Hello,
>
> We are working on implementing a solution for a medium service provider.
> They were previously using a Cisco AS5300 gateway with some PRI trunks to
> receive modem calls, then route them out the Internet.
>
> The Telco they were buying the trunks to discovered this configuration and
> restricted them due to legal conventions, and stated that in order to
> continue doing this, they would have to talk SS7 directly.
>
>
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