asterisk users - Aug 2005 - Features you'd like to see in a GUI?

Sherwood,

Your intentions are noble and your desire to build this, fullfills an
immediate need for business.

If your intention is just to build a GUI for Asterisk, read no further.
If your desire is to build something more purposeful, your best bet
would be to see the existing commercial GUI/HostedPBX offerings like
Pbxware and Switchware from bicomsystems.com 
( http://www.bicomsystems.com) 
and Thirdlane Technologies (http://www.thirdlane.com/opensource.htm) and
the Open Source software like AMP and try to emulate (or preferably
improve upon) them.

My suggestion is to create a "VOIP Business in a Box System" that has
inter-alia following list of modules:

1) GUI To configure Administer Asterisk Extensions across many servers
2) Postpaid and Prepaid Billing modules with realtime call progress
detection and call cut-off
3)CRM Module for customers to register and provide their information for
recurring billing.
4)Web based conference room management module
5)Web based click to dial and callback module

Many of these modules are already available on Open Source like
SugarCRM, AsreskiCC etc., and Asterisk@home CD contains AMP and SugarCRM
at this time, besides other Open Source utilities like PhpMyAdmin.

Here is the bottomline:
----------------------
The real need is for a commercially deployable solution that can create
a business, without too many additions to it.

Bicom Systems has promised for too long that their Pbxware and
Switchware can fullfill this need to create a business, but they never
deliverd their promise. PBXware and Switchware have been a total and
expensive disappointment to me and for the few who invested in them.

The story is similar with Thirdlane Technologies who promised a good
Asterisk Management Interface but they have not been able to deliver a
mature GUI to manage Asterisk, let alone deploying a Hosted PBX.

AMP fullfills this promise partially and I am impressed with it's
richness of features, to create a Open Source Hosted PBX where you don't
need to bill the customer.

AreskiCC Provides a module to run a Calling Card Business but not as a
Hosted PBX .

AMP Gives a nice Gui and can be used as a Corporate PBX but not as a
Commercial Hosted PBX as it does not have a billing system.

In summary a system that is a blend of AMP + AreskiCC + SugarCRM would
be a good mix of ingredients to build what I would call a "Business in a
Box" solution. There is money to make in such solutions.

The Business in a box solution could be any one of the following, with
the ingredient modules being varied.

1)Asterisk Calling Card Business in a Box
2)Asterisk Call Center Business in a Box
3)Asterisk Business Messaging Business in a Box
4)Asterisk Hosted Telephone and PBX business in a Box
  Etc etc.

My .02 cents on this.

Seshu Kanuri

-----Original Message-----
From: asterisk-users-bounces@lists.digium.com
[mailto:asterisk-users-bounces@lists.digium.com] On Behalf Of Sherwood
McGowan
Sent: Thursday, August 04, 2005 9:02 AM
To: 'Matt Florell'; 'Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial
Discussion'
Subject: RE: [Asterisk-Users] Features you'd like to see in a GUI?


->Is this going to be a configuration utility or an end-user utility?

Both, there will eventually be functionality for per-user permissions,
however right now this is for the administrator to add/remove
"accounts"
in SIP and IAX, eventually other trunks, voicemail configurations, per
user configuration of options, etc...think Asterisk @ Home's combination
of tools, all in one place. 

Perhaps it would be better to show what's going on already, here's what
I have currently working in my employer's system (an ITSP):

Editing of individual extensions/trunks in SIP and IAX Voicemail Account
/ Option Editing CDR Searching Provisioning File Editing for devices
User configuration editing (extra table setup for Account options)
Account Management (Using SIP for end user accounts, interface merges
voicemail, sip, provisioning, and user options on one page) System
Statistics (concurrent calls, channels, memory usage, load, etc...)

Current future plans:
Specific SIP/IAX Channel Information
Allowing dropping of a channel (this is due to the occasional need for
dropping hung channels, which can really rack up fees on a system) SIP
PRUNE REALTIME PEER <number> SIP SHOW PEER <number> [load] The above
two
options for IAX as well.
Voicemail Greetings webinterface (not hard, just not finished yet)
Voicemail Webinterface (really fairly easy, just not done)
Extensions.conf editing Logging Interface Log viewing & Management


As you can see, this is a fairly indepth project. Until I actually had
to use Asterisk on a large scale (1000+ concurrent users), I hadn't
thought of a lot of these features. The more I use it the more I come
across little things that would be really useful. Thanks to Digium for
offering the commandline option "asterisk -rx commandtoexecute"!

Aside from these planned features, are there any other arcane options
that you'd like to see? I'm definitely trying to get as many of the CLI
commands implemented in one way or another, as many users don't want to
sit in the CLI and watch verbose output, while admins such as myself
need to be able to watch progression of calls.

Thanks again,
Sherwood McGowan
ARTCP Developer


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Seshu,
You're exactly right, and this is exactly what we're planning. The
company I
work for is planning to release the hostedpbx product shortly, and  we'd
definitely want these functions in the system. Thanks for your suggestions,
most definitely.

Yes, we're creating a complete distro too, so that the mysql databases are
setup to the spec that would be required for ARTCP and *RT to use all the
functions we have in both systems. I'll keep you guys posted, there's
going
to be some Sourceforge projects soon for both of them.



->-----Original Message-----
->From: asterisk-users-bounces@lists.digium.com 
->[mailto:asterisk-users-bounces@lists.digium.com] On Behalf Of 
->Kanuri, Seshu (Company IT)
->Sent: Thursday, August 04, 2005 10:34 AM
->To: Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion
->Subject: RE: [Asterisk-Users] Features you'd like to see in a GUI?
->
->Sherwood,
->
->Your intentions are noble and your desire to build this, 
->fullfills an immediate need for business.
->
->If your intention is just to build a GUI for Asterisk, read 
->no further.
->If your desire is to build something more purposeful, your 
->best bet would be to see the existing commercial 
->GUI/HostedPBX offerings like Pbxware and Switchware from 
->bicomsystems.com ( http://www.bicomsystems.com) and Thirdlane 
->Technologies (http://www.thirdlane.com/opensource.htm) and 
->the Open Source software like AMP and try to emulate (or 
->preferably improve upon) them.
->
->My suggestion is to create a "VOIP Business in a Box System" 
->that has inter-alia following list of modules:
->
->1) GUI To configure Administer Asterisk Extensions across many servers
->2) Postpaid and Prepaid Billing modules with realtime call 
->progress detection and call cut-off 3)CRM Module for 
->customers to register and provide their information for 
->recurring billing.
->4)Web based conference room management module 5)Web based 
->click to dial and callback module
->
->Many of these modules are already available on Open Source 
->like SugarCRM, AsreskiCC etc., and Asterisk@home CD contains 
->AMP and SugarCRM at this time, besides other Open Source 
->utilities like PhpMyAdmin.
->
->Here is the bottomline:
->----------------------
->The real need is for a commercially deployable solution that 
->can create a business, without too many additions to it.
->
->Bicom Systems has promised for too long that their Pbxware 
->and Switchware can fullfill this need to create a business, 
->but they never deliverd their promise. PBXware and Switchware 
->have been a total and expensive disappointment to me and for 
->the few who invested in them.
->
->The story is similar with Thirdlane Technologies who promised 
->a good Asterisk Management Interface but they have not been 
->able to deliver a mature GUI to manage Asterisk, let alone 
->deploying a Hosted PBX.
->
->AMP fullfills this promise partially and I am impressed with 
->it's richness of features, to create a Open Source Hosted PBX 
->where you don't need to bill the customer.
->
->AreskiCC Provides a module to run a Calling Card Business but 
->not as a Hosted PBX .
->
->AMP Gives a nice Gui and can be used as a Corporate PBX but 
->not as a Commercial Hosted PBX as it does not have a billing system.
->
->In summary a system that is a blend of AMP + AreskiCC + 
->SugarCRM would be a good mix of ingredients to build what I 
->would call a "Business in a Box" solution. There is money to 
->make in such solutions.
->
->The Business in a box solution could be any one of the 
->following, with the ingredient modules being varied.
->
->1)Asterisk Calling Card Business in a Box 2)Asterisk Call 
->Center Business in a Box 3)Asterisk Business Messaging 
->Business in a Box 4)Asterisk Hosted Telephone and PBX 
->business in a Box
->  Etc etc.
->
->My .02 cents on this.
->
->Seshu Kanuri
->
->-----Original Message-----
->From: asterisk-users-bounces@lists.digium.com
->[mailto:asterisk-users-bounces@lists.digium.com] On Behalf Of 
->Sherwood McGowan
->Sent: Thursday, August 04, 2005 9:02 AM
->To: 'Matt Florell'; 'Asterisk Users Mailing List - 
->Non-Commercial Discussion'
->Subject: RE: [Asterisk-Users] Features you'd like to see in a GUI?
->
->
->->Is this going to be a configuration utility or an end-user utility?
->
->Both, there will eventually be functionality for per-user 
->permissions, however right now this is for the administrator 
->to add/remove "accounts"
->in SIP and IAX, eventually other trunks, voicemail 
->configurations, per user configuration of options, 
->etc...think Asterisk @ Home's combination of tools, all in one place. 
->
->Perhaps it would be better to show what's going on already, 
->here's what I have currently working in my employer's system 
->(an ITSP):
->
->Editing of individual extensions/trunks in SIP and IAX 
->Voicemail Account / Option Editing CDR Searching Provisioning 
->File Editing for devices User configuration editing (extra 
->table setup for Account options) Account Management (Using 
->SIP for end user accounts, interface merges voicemail, sip, 
->provisioning, and user options on one page) System Statistics 
->(concurrent calls, channels, memory usage, load, etc...)
->
->Current future plans:
->Specific SIP/IAX Channel Information
->Allowing dropping of a channel (this is due to the occasional 
->need for dropping hung channels, which can really rack up 
->fees on a system) SIP PRUNE REALTIME PEER <number> SIP SHOW 
->PEER <number> [load] The above two options for IAX as well.
->Voicemail Greetings webinterface (not hard, just not finished 
->yet) Voicemail Webinterface (really fairly easy, just not 
->done) Extensions.conf editing Logging Interface Log viewing & 
->Management
->
->
->As you can see, this is a fairly indepth project. Until I 
->actually had to use Asterisk on a large scale (1000+ 
->concurrent users), I hadn't thought of a lot of these 
->features. The more I use it the more I come across little 
->things that would be really useful. Thanks to Digium for 
->offering the commandline option "asterisk -rx commandtoexecute"!
->
->Aside from these planned features, are there any other arcane 
->options that you'd like to see? I'm definitely trying to get 
->as many of the CLI commands implemented in one way or 
->another, as many users don't want to sit in the CLI and watch 
->verbose output, while admins such as myself need to be able 
->to watch progression of calls.
->
->Thanks again,
->Sherwood McGowan
->ARTCP Developer
->
->
->_______________________________________________
->Asterisk-Users mailing list
->Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com
->http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
->To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
->   http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
->--------------------------------------------------------
->
->NOTICE: If received in error, please destroy and notify 
->sender.  Sender does not waive confidentiality or privilege, 
->and use is prohibited.
->_______________________________________________
->Asterisk-Users mailing list
->Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com
->http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
->To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
->   http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
->

Oh and, yes, we have the ability to manage multiple servers from one gui
site. We currently have multiple "switches" running on different
machines
for regional control of customers in our VOIP system.

Thanks again,
Sherwood

->-----Original Message-----
->From: asterisk-users-bounces@lists.digium.com 
->[mailto:asterisk-users-bounces@lists.digium.com] On Behalf Of 
->Kanuri, Seshu (Company IT)
->Sent: Thursday, August 04, 2005 10:34 AM
->To: Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion
->Subject: RE: [Asterisk-Users] Features you'd like to see in a GUI?
->
->Sherwood,
->
->Your intentions are noble and your desire to build this, 
->fullfills an immediate need for business.
->
->If your intention is just to build a GUI for Asterisk, read 
->no further.
->If your desire is to build something more purposeful, your 
->best bet would be to see the existing commercial 
->GUI/HostedPBX offerings like Pbxware and Switchware from 
->bicomsystems.com ( http://www.bicomsystems.com) and Thirdlane 
->Technologies (http://www.thirdlane.com/opensource.htm) and 
->the Open Source software like AMP and try to emulate (or 
->preferably improve upon) them.
->
->My suggestion is to create a "VOIP Business in a Box System" 
->that has inter-alia following list of modules:
->
->1) GUI To configure Administer Asterisk Extensions across many servers
->2) Postpaid and Prepaid Billing modules with realtime call 
->progress detection and call cut-off 3)CRM Module for 
->customers to register and provide their information for 
->recurring billing.
->4)Web based conference room management module 5)Web based 
->click to dial and callback module
->
->Many of these modules are already available on Open Source 
->like SugarCRM, AsreskiCC etc., and Asterisk@home CD contains 
->AMP and SugarCRM at this time, besides other Open Source 
->utilities like PhpMyAdmin.
->
->Here is the bottomline:
->----------------------
->The real need is for a commercially deployable solution that 
->can create a business, without too many additions to it.
->
->Bicom Systems has promised for too long that their Pbxware 
->and Switchware can fullfill this need to create a business, 
->but they never deliverd their promise. PBXware and Switchware 
->have been a total and expensive disappointment to me and for 
->the few who invested in them.
->
->The story is similar with Thirdlane Technologies who promised 
->a good Asterisk Management Interface but they have not been 
->able to deliver a mature GUI to manage Asterisk, let alone 
->deploying a Hosted PBX.
->
->AMP fullfills this promise partially and I am impressed with 
->it's richness of features, to create a Open Source Hosted PBX 
->where you don't need to bill the customer.
->
->AreskiCC Provides a module to run a Calling Card Business but 
->not as a Hosted PBX .
->
->AMP Gives a nice Gui and can be used as a Corporate PBX but 
->not as a Commercial Hosted PBX as it does not have a billing system.
->
->In summary a system that is a blend of AMP + AreskiCC + 
->SugarCRM would be a good mix of ingredients to build what I 
->would call a "Business in a Box" solution. There is money to 
->make in such solutions.
->
->The Business in a box solution could be any one of the 
->following, with the ingredient modules being varied.
->
->1)Asterisk Calling Card Business in a Box 2)Asterisk Call 
->Center Business in a Box 3)Asterisk Business Messaging 
->Business in a Box 4)Asterisk Hosted Telephone and PBX 
->business in a Box
->  Etc etc.
->
->My .02 cents on this.
->
->Seshu Kanuri
->
->-----Original Message-----
->From: asterisk-users-bounces@lists.digium.com
->[mailto:asterisk-users-bounces@lists.digium.com] On Behalf Of 
->Sherwood McGowan
->Sent: Thursday, August 04, 2005 9:02 AM
->To: 'Matt Florell'; 'Asterisk Users Mailing List - 
->Non-Commercial Discussion'
->Subject: RE: [Asterisk-Users] Features you'd like to see in a GUI?
->
->
->->Is this going to be a configuration utility or an end-user utility?
->
->Both, there will eventually be functionality for per-user 
->permissions, however right now this is for the administrator 
->to add/remove "accounts"
->in SIP and IAX, eventually other trunks, voicemail 
->configurations, per user configuration of options, 
->etc...think Asterisk @ Home's combination of tools, all in one place. 
->
->Perhaps it would be better to show what's going on already, 
->here's what I have currently working in my employer's system 
->(an ITSP):
->
->Editing of individual extensions/trunks in SIP and IAX 
->Voicemail Account / Option Editing CDR Searching Provisioning 
->File Editing for devices User configuration editing (extra 
->table setup for Account options) Account Management (Using 
->SIP for end user accounts, interface merges voicemail, sip, 
->provisioning, and user options on one page) System Statistics 
->(concurrent calls, channels, memory usage, load, etc...)
->
->Current future plans:
->Specific SIP/IAX Channel Information
->Allowing dropping of a channel (this is due to the occasional 
->need for dropping hung channels, which can really rack up 
->fees on a system) SIP PRUNE REALTIME PEER <number> SIP SHOW 
->PEER <number> [load] The above two options for IAX as well.
->Voicemail Greetings webinterface (not hard, just not finished 
->yet) Voicemail Webinterface (really fairly easy, just not 
->done) Extensions.conf editing Logging Interface Log viewing & 
->Management
->
->
->As you can see, this is a fairly indepth project. Until I 
->actually had to use Asterisk on a large scale (1000+ 
->concurrent users), I hadn't thought of a lot of these 
->features. The more I use it the more I come across little 
->things that would be really useful. Thanks to Digium for 
->offering the commandline option "asterisk -rx commandtoexecute"!
->
->Aside from these planned features, are there any other arcane 
->options that you'd like to see? I'm definitely trying to get 
->as many of the CLI commands implemented in one way or 
->another, as many users don't want to sit in the CLI and watch 
->verbose output, while admins such as myself need to be able 
->to watch progression of calls.
->
->Thanks again,
->Sherwood McGowan
->ARTCP Developer
->
->
->_______________________________________________
->Asterisk-Users mailing list
->Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com
->http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
->To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
->   http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
->--------------------------------------------------------
->
->NOTICE: If received in error, please destroy and notify 
->sender.  Sender does not waive confidentiality or privilege, 
->and use is prohibited.
->_______________________________________________
->Asterisk-Users mailing list
->Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com
->http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
->To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
->   http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
->

> If your intention is just to build a GUI for Asterisk, read no
> further.
> If your desire is to build something more purposeful, your best bet
> would be to see the existing commercial GUI/HostedPBX offerings like
> Pbxware and Switchware from bicomsystems.com
> ( http://www.bicomsystems.com)
> and Thirdlane Technologies (http://www.thirdlane.com/opensource.htm)
> and
> the Open Source software like AMP and try to emulate (or preferably
> improve upon) them.
>
> My suggestion is to create a "VOIP Business in a Box System" that
has
> inter-alia following list of modules:
>
> 1) GUI To configure Administer Asterisk Extensions across many servers
> 2) Postpaid and Prepaid Billing modules with realtime call progress
> detection and call cut-off
> 3)CRM Module for customers to register and provide their information
> for
> recurring billing.
> 4)Web based conference room management module
> 5)Web based click to dial and callback module
>
> Many of these modules are already available on Open Source like
> SugarCRM, AsreskiCC etc., and Asterisk@home CD contains AMP and
> SugarCRM
> at this time, besides other Open Source utilities like PhpMyAdmin.
>
> Here is the bottomline:
> ----------------------
> The real need is for a commercially deployable solution that can
> create
> a business, without too many additions to it.
>
> Bicom Systems has promised for too long that their Pbxware and
> Switchware can fullfill this need to create a business, but they never
> deliverd their promise. PBXware and Switchware have been a total and
> expensive disappointment to me and for the few who invested in them.

I would not normally reply on a post like this, but since you are publicly
expressing your opinion on products and services that we offer, I must
defend our years of work.

We have PBXware and SWITCHware deployed at many locations around the globe -
all working just fine. The combination of SWITCHware and other applications
(Billing, CMS, Products & Services Database, Media Proxy, SER, Cluster
servers etc) form what we call "Telco in a BOX". We have deployed such
solutions in North America, Europe and shortly Asia. Our clients are small
to medium and some of largest blue chip corporate companies in the world and
even Chip Manufacturers. Our distributors include approved Digium
distributors
and have been deploying our products with no major issues.

As for "expensive disappointment" ... What is expensive ?
If you mean a small switch costing several thousands or complete solutions
costing several hundred of thousands. Take your pick  ...

In addition, our clients we deal on regular basis do not "disappear".
Each
and every client is looked after by us. They do not, "install" the
software
try it and then come back after several weeks/months and start the install
process all over again... That is not a workable model for anyone.

Our "installed" clients certainly do not try to look into our source
code
and then say "it is not working".

As for putting "Business in a BOX"  and any of the many other projects
together of which this list has had to endure from you in the past 24
months, we wish you the best of luck and trust that they neither have proved
too expensive or disappointing to discourage you further.



Senad Jordanovic
www.bicomsystems.com

Senad,

I don't want to take this conversation much further and send a laundry
list of issues we faced with Switchware to this forum, and the myriads
of bugs we have wrestled with in the past 18 months, as that list is too
long and this forum is not for that purpose. 
>In addition, our clients we deal on regular basis do 
> not "disappear". Each and every client is looked after by us. 
> They do not, "install" the software try it and then come back 
> after several weeks/months and start the install process all 
> over again... That is not a workable model for anyone.
The answer to your above comments is already known to you and it is
already mentioned in Para-1. As you already knew, the two install
efforts by me, one in September-October 2004 and  One in
November-December 2004 have failed to install a working software. On
several occasions when I have reverted back to you on giving me a
working version, your answer ( as well as Stephen Wingfield's ) was that
Bicom don't have one ready. 

Infact, as I remember this correctly, Switchware was taken out of your
product list due to these issues. Moreover is it ethical or legitimate
to sell a software that has to be installed only by your technical team
and works only on a specific hardware for a given network card and for a
given IP. You don't even have a tarball to download and install till
today, let alone a CD image?. This is not the way products are sold,
where everything is closed, even the features of Asterisk that are
available otherwise.
> Our "installed" clients certainly do not try to look 
> into our source code and then say "it is not working".
I don't understand what you mean by looking into your source code, but
if you mean that "once Switchware is installed, live with what Bicom
allows you to do with Asterisk, and dont ask questions like 'Why Cannot
I use  4 Digit extensions' or 'Why cant I use ASTCC with Switchware'
or
'Why cannot I create more than X number of channels'" or millions
of
other such questions, my answer is that this is totally out of line with
the purpose of Asterisk as an Open Source software and if Digium knew
what is going on, probably you are going to have legal issues as far as
the GPL of the code is concerned, in the same way Sysmaster did with
their SM7000 products.

Your Channel Locking and per channel pricing poilicy I am sure will put
Oracle and Larry Ellsion to shame.

I feel that Bicom should have spent more time making Switchware or
PBXware work cleanly, rather than spending most of the time in
copyprotecting and closed sourcing Asterisk so that if the customer has
to move the installation to another server, they have to call you for a
new license code and pay you for the installation, rather than doing it
himself. 

This is against the open source philosophy we are all trying to benefit
from.

Seshu Kanuri

-----Original Message-----
From: asterisk-users-bounces@lists.digium.com
[mailto:asterisk-users-bounces@lists.digium.com] On Behalf Of Senad J
Sent: Thursday, August 04, 2005 12:47 PM
To: Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion
Subject: RE: [Asterisk-Users] Features you'd like to see in a GUI?
> If your intention is just to build a GUI for Asterisk, read no 
> further.
> If your desire is to build something more purposeful, your best bet 
> would be to see the existing commercial GUI/HostedPBX offerings like 
> Pbxware and Switchware from bicomsystems.com ( 
> http://www.bicomsystems.com) and Thirdlane Technologies 
> (http://www.thirdlane.com/opensource.htm)
> and
> the Open Source software like AMP and try to emulate (or preferably 
> improve upon) them.
>
> My suggestion is to create a "VOIP Business in a Box System" that
has
> inter-alia following list of modules:
>
> 1) GUI To configure Administer Asterisk Extensions across many servers
> 2) Postpaid and Prepaid Billing modules with realtime call progress 
> detection and call cut-off 3)CRM Module for customers to register and 
> provide their information for recurring billing.
> 4)Web based conference room management module 5)Web based click to 
> dial and callback module
>
> Many of these modules are already available on Open Source like 
> SugarCRM, AsreskiCC etc., and Asterisk@home CD contains AMP and 
> SugarCRM at this time, besides other Open Source utilities like 
> PhpMyAdmin.
>
> Here is the bottomline:
> ----------------------
> The real need is for a commercially deployable solution that can 
> create a business, without too many additions to it.
>
> Bicom Systems has promised for too long that their Pbxware and 
> Switchware can fullfill this need to create a business, but they never
> deliverd their promise. PBXware and Switchware have been a total and 
> expensive disappointment to me and for the few who invested in them.

I would not normally reply on a post like this, but since you are
publicly expressing your opinion on products and services that we offer,
I must defend our years of work.

We have PBXware and SWITCHware deployed at many locations around the
globe - all working just fine. The combination of SWITCHware and other
applications (Billing, CMS, Products & Services Database, Media Proxy,
SER, Cluster servers etc) form what we call "Telco in a BOX". We have
deployed such solutions in North America, Europe and shortly Asia. Our
clients are small to medium and some of largest blue chip corporate
companies in the world and even Chip Manufacturers. Our distributors
include approved Digium distributors and have been deploying our
products with no major issues.

As for "expensive disappointment" ... What is expensive ?
If you mean a small switch costing several thousands or complete
solutions costing several hundred of thousands. Take your pick  ...

In addition, our clients we deal on regular basis do not "disappear".
Each and every client is looked after by us. They do not, "install"
the
software try it and then come back after several weeks/months and start
the install process all over again... That is not a workable model for
anyone.

Our "installed" clients certainly do not try to look into our source
code and then say "it is not working".

As for putting "Business in a BOX"  and any of the many other projects
together of which this list has had to endure from you in the past 24
months, we wish you the best of luck and trust that they neither have
proved too expensive or disappointing to discourage you further.



Senad Jordanovic
www.bicomsystems.com

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As this thread has come into the open, my suggestion is to get at least
5 references for Swithware and 5 references for Pbxware from Bicom
Systems, and speak to all of them and decide which way to go.

I can probably give a couple of references you can speak to, besides
myself on the usability of Pbxware and Switchware.

Seshu Kanuri


-----Original Message-----
From: asterisk-users-bounces@lists.digium.com
[mailto:asterisk-users-bounces@lists.digium.com] On Behalf Of
asterisk@txpe.net
Sent: Thursday, August 04, 2005 1:58 PM
To: Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion
Subject: RE: [Asterisk-Users] Features you'd like to see in a GUI?

Considering I'm in the market to outfit 5 offices with an integrated
phone system, I'm interested in hearing a response from Bicom on these
topics.  I like the "look" of PBXware.  I may be interested in getting
more technical details.  I like the Bicom business model better than the
Fonality business model.

One major issue for me as the end user is that I already have 5 Polycom
phones.  Does PBWware support Polycom phones yet?


At 12:34 PM 8/4/2005, you wrote:
>Senad,
>
>I don't want to take this conversation much further and send a laundry
>list of issues we faced with Switchware to this forum, and the myriads
>of bugs we have wrestled with in the past 18 months, as that list is
too
>long and this forum is not for that purpose.
>
> >In addition, our clients we deal on regular basis do
> > not "disappear". Each and every client is looked after by
us.
> > They do not, "install" the software try it and then come
back
> > after several weeks/months and start the install process all
> > over again... That is not a workable model for anyone.
>
>The answer to your above comments is already known to you and it is
>already mentioned in Para-1. As you already knew, the two install
>efforts by me, one in September-October 2004 and  One in
>November-December 2004 have failed to install a working software. On
>several occasions when I have reverted back to you on giving me a
>working version, your answer ( as well as Stephen Wingfield's ) was
that
>Bicom don't have one ready.
>
>Infact, as I remember this correctly, Switchware was taken out of your
>product list due to these issues. Moreover is it ethical or legitimate
>to sell a software that has to be installed only by your technical team
>and works only on a specific hardware for a given network card and for
a
>given IP. You don't even have a tarball to download and install till
>today, let alone a CD image?. This is not the way products are sold,
>where everything is closed, even the features of Asterisk that are
>available otherwise.
>
> > Our "installed" clients certainly do not try to look
> > into our source code and then say "it is not working".
>
>I don't understand what you mean by looking into your source code, but
>if you mean that "once Switchware is installed, live with what Bicom
>allows you to do with Asterisk, and dont ask questions like 'Why Cannot
>I use  4 Digit extensions' or 'Why cant I use ASTCC with
Switchware' or
>'Why cannot I create more than X number of channels'" or
millions of
>other such questions, my answer is that this is totally out of line
with
>the purpose of Asterisk as an Open Source software and if Digium knew
>what is going on, probably you are going to have legal issues as far as
>the GPL of the code is concerned, in the same way Sysmaster did with
>their SM7000 products.
>
>Your Channel Locking and per channel pricing poilicy I am sure will put
>Oracle and Larry Ellsion to shame.
>
>I feel that Bicom should have spent more time making Switchware or
>PBXware work cleanly, rather than spending most of the time in
>copyprotecting and closed sourcing Asterisk so that if the customer has
>to move the installation to another server, they have to call you for a
>new license code and pay you for the installation, rather than doing it
>himself.
>
>This is against the open source philosophy we are all trying to benefit
>from.
>
>Seshu Kanuri
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I have to agree, in a world where ip telephony is emerging as a next
generation pbx system, you have to expect that companies will offer it
on their terms.  Unhappy customers go with the territory, but in a
business sense bicom is only trying to support their product the best
that they can.

After all, this is open source, all of us have to support it, make
suggestions, and do what we can to further the technology.  

If someone does not like the product, they can go somewhere else, it's a
free country.  This list however, is not a place to take out your anger
because you are not happy.

I have seen corporations invest over 50K in products, and an up
scratching it for something else. Anyone seen the latest voipsupply
sales on cisco equipment, what do you think caused that?

I have spent a lot of money myself on things in which I was not happy
with the outcome, including products from Cisco and many others, but I
have not tried to publically bash the companies.  After all, they do
need to pay their expenses and such.  I can say that what I have learned
has proven to be an important skill, one which will only be beneficial
in the future.

Sounds like someone expects too much...

This list is a valuable resource for all of us who wish to use voice
over ip telephony to both further our knowledge and experise, and use
these skills to benefit ourselves, and our clients.

If everyone was unhappy with products in the market, there would be no
new innovations.

Personally, I think if a person has a problem, they should either do
something to correct it by creating something better, or keep their
offensive opionions to themselves.

Just my 2 cents...

Regards,
Greg

-----Original Message-----
From: asterisk-users-bounces@lists.digium.com
[mailto:asterisk-users-bounces@lists.digium.com] On Behalf Of Kanuri,
Seshu (Company IT)
Sent: Thursday, August 04, 2005 1:35 PM
To: Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion
Subject: RE: [Asterisk-Users] Features you'd like to see in a GUI?

Senad,

I don't want to take this conversation much further and send a laundry
list of issues we faced with Switchware to this forum, and the myriads
of bugs we have wrestled with in the past 18 months, as that list is too
long and this forum is not for that purpose. 
>In addition, our clients we deal on regular basis do  not
"disappear".
>Each and every client is looked after by us.
> They do not, "install" the software try it and then come back 
after
>several weeks/months and start the install process all  over again... 
>That is not a workable model for anyone.
The answer to your above comments is already known to you and it is
already mentioned in Para-1. As you already knew, the two install
efforts by me, one in September-October 2004 and  One in
November-December 2004 have failed to install a working software. On
several occasions when I have reverted back to you on giving me a
working version, your answer ( as well as Stephen Wingfield's ) was that
Bicom don't have one ready. 

Infact, as I remember this correctly, Switchware was taken out of your
product list due to these issues. Moreover is it ethical or legitimate
to sell a software that has to be installed only by your technical team
and works only on a specific hardware for a given network card and for a
given IP. You don't even have a tarball to download and install till
today, let alone a CD image?. This is not the way products are sold,
where everything is closed, even the features of Asterisk that are
available otherwise.
> Our "installed" clients certainly do not try to look into our
source
> code and then say "it is not working".
I don't understand what you mean by looking into your source code, but
if you mean that "once Switchware is installed, live with what Bicom
allows you to do with Asterisk, and dont ask questions like 'Why Cannot
I use  4 Digit extensions' or 'Why cant I use ASTCC with Switchware'
or
'Why cannot I create more than X number of channels'" or millions
of
other such questions, my answer is that this is totally out of line with
the purpose of Asterisk as an Open Source software and if Digium knew
what is going on, probably you are going to have legal issues as far as
the GPL of the code is concerned, in the same way Sysmaster did with
their SM7000 products.

Your Channel Locking and per channel pricing poilicy I am sure will put
Oracle and Larry Ellsion to shame.

I feel that Bicom should have spent more time making Switchware or
PBXware work cleanly, rather than spending most of the time in
copyprotecting and closed sourcing Asterisk so that if the customer has
to move the installation to another server, they have to call you for a
new license code and pay you for the installation, rather than doing it
himself. 

This is against the open source philosophy we are all trying to benefit
from.

Seshu Kanuri

-----Original Message-----
From: asterisk-users-bounces@lists.digium.com
[mailto:asterisk-users-bounces@lists.digium.com] On Behalf Of Senad J
Sent: Thursday, August 04, 2005 12:47 PM
To: Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion
Subject: RE: [Asterisk-Users] Features you'd like to see in a GUI?
> If your intention is just to build a GUI for Asterisk, read no 
> further.
> If your desire is to build something more purposeful, your best bet 
> would be to see the existing commercial GUI/HostedPBX offerings like 
> Pbxware and Switchware from bicomsystems.com (
> http://www.bicomsystems.com) and Thirdlane Technologies
> (http://www.thirdlane.com/opensource.htm)
> and
> the Open Source software like AMP and try to emulate (or preferably 
> improve upon) them.
>
> My suggestion is to create a "VOIP Business in a Box System" that
has
> inter-alia following list of modules:
>
> 1) GUI To configure Administer Asterisk Extensions across many servers
> 2) Postpaid and Prepaid Billing modules with realtime call progress 
> detection and call cut-off 3)CRM Module for customers to register and 
> provide their information for recurring billing.
> 4)Web based conference room management module 5)Web based click to 
> dial and callback module
>
> Many of these modules are already available on Open Source like 
> SugarCRM, AsreskiCC etc., and Asterisk@home CD contains AMP and 
> SugarCRM at this time, besides other Open Source utilities like 
> PhpMyAdmin.
>
> Here is the bottomline:
> ----------------------
> The real need is for a commercially deployable solution that can 
> create a business, without too many additions to it.
>
> Bicom Systems has promised for too long that their Pbxware and 
> Switchware can fullfill this need to create a business, but they never
> deliverd their promise. PBXware and Switchware have been a total and 
> expensive disappointment to me and for the few who invested in them.

I would not normally reply on a post like this, but since you are
publicly expressing your opinion on products and services that we offer,
I must defend our years of work.

We have PBXware and SWITCHware deployed at many locations around the
globe - all working just fine. The combination of SWITCHware and other
applications (Billing, CMS, Products & Services Database, Media Proxy,
SER, Cluster servers etc) form what we call "Telco in a BOX". We have
deployed such solutions in North America, Europe and shortly Asia. Our
clients are small to medium and some of largest blue chip corporate
companies in the world and even Chip Manufacturers. Our distributors
include approved Digium distributors and have been deploying our
products with no major issues.

As for "expensive disappointment" ... What is expensive ?
If you mean a small switch costing several thousands or complete
solutions costing several hundred of thousands. Take your pick  ...

In addition, our clients we deal on regular basis do not "disappear".
Each and every client is looked after by us. They do not, "install"
the
software try it and then come back after several weeks/months and start
the install process all over again... That is not a workable model for
anyone.

Our "installed" clients certainly do not try to look into our source
code and then say "it is not working".

As for putting "Business in a BOX"  and any of the many other projects
together of which this list has had to endure from you in the past 24
months, we wish you the best of luck and trust that they neither have
proved too expensive or disappointing to discourage you further.



Senad Jordanovic
www.bicomsystems.com

_______________________________________________
Asterisk-Users mailing list
Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com
http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
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   http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
--------------------------------------------------------

NOTICE: If received in error, please destroy and notify sender.  Sender
does not waive confidentiality or privilege, and use is prohibited.
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