asterisk users - Nov 2003 - The Minimum Cost of Setting up an Asterisk Phone System?

Everyone--

Here's a cost analysis, rather crude and inspecific, of using Asterisk
to implement a phone system. I'm really quite naive and new to all this,
so I'd appreciate any corrections, tips, pointers, etc, from those in
the community, who have far greater experience, knowledge, skill, etc.
than I. Am I forgetting something important? Am I way off in my
estimates?


The Minimum Cost of setting up an Asterisk Phone system:

Fundamental Building Blocks: 

1. No more phones serviced than one computer can handle.
2. Computer = self-built or whatever, approx. $500 
3. OS = Linux. $0
4. Phones.
   Cheap Touch-tone phones: $30 each (Estimate at what I can get
     at Walmart, quantity one purchases. No digital readout, no
     programmable features. 
   Voip Phones $250 estimated per-phone average cost. Realize that
     costs can vary widely here!
5. Channel Banks. Looking at what's available on Ebay, I estimate you
   should be able to pick up a fully loaded, 24-channel FXS/FXO bank for
   $650 average. Low = $200  High = $4500. I have no way of telling
   which channel banks are compatible with asterisk. Assume that they
   are.
6. Digium cards:  FXO card = about $100. FXS card = $125. 
                  4 port FXS=$300. Prices approx. See their web site
                                   for exact prices.
                  quad span T1 (96 lines total) $1500
                  Single span T1 (24 lines) $500
7. Wiring. Cost of Wiring is not calculated. Assume that the premises
           is wired, with patch panels, closets, etc., already in place.
8. UPS, power supplies, etc: Not specifically included in the estimates.

9. Used equipment can be cheaper, but: if you need a lot, you may not
necessarily be able to wait around for everything you need to show up on
ebay. And what you get may not be what you wanted, etc. 


Scenarios: 

2x4 system:
            Computer: $500
            2 FXO   : $200
            1 4-FXS : $300
            4 phones: $120
            --------------
            Total:  : $1120     cost/phone = $280

2x8 system:
            Computer: $500
            2 FXO   : $200
            2 4-FXS : $600
            8 phones: $240
            --------------
            Total:  : $1540     cost/phone = $192.25

96 line system ( FXS/FXO mix 88/8)
            Computer : $ 500
            QspanT1  : $1500
            4 ChanBks: $2600
            88 phones: $2640  
            ----------------
            Total:  : $7240     cost/phone = $82.27

192 line system (FXS/FXO mix 176/16)
            Computer : $ 500
            2 QspT1  : $3000
            8 ChanBks: $5200
            176phones: $5280  
            ----------------
            Total:  : $13980     cost/phone = $79.43

Voip 2 x 4 System using gnophone on desk computers, already networked:
            Computer : $ 500
            2 FXO    : $ 200
            4 gnophones: $ 0  
            ----------------
            Total:  : $700     cost/phone = $175

Voip 2 x 4 System using VOIP phone:
            Computer : $ 500
            2 FXO    : $ 200
            4 VOIPs  : $1000 
            ----------------
            Total:  : $1700     cost/phone = $425

Voip 2 x 8 System using gnophones on existing systems on existing
network:
            Computer : $ 500
            2 FXO    : $ 200
            8 gnophones: $ 0  
            ----------------
            Total:  : $700     cost/phone = $87.50

Voip 2 x 8 System using Voip phones:
            Computer : $ 500
            2 FXO    : $ 200
            8 VOIPs  : $2000
            ----------------
            Total:  : $2700     cost/phone = $337.50


Voip 24 x 192 Phones, using gnophone on existing comps & network:
            Computer : $ 500
            1spanT1  : $ 500
            1 ChanBnk: $ 650
            192 gnoph: $   0
            ----------------
            Total:  : $1650     cost/phone = $10.18

Voip 24 x 192 phones, using Voip Phones:
            Computer : $  500
            1spanT1  : $  500
            1 ChanBnk: $  650
            192 gnoph: $48000
            switch/hubs: $ ?
            ----------------
            Total:  : $49650+     cost/phone = $258.59+


The fantastically low prices of using gnophones on existing systems is
only available IF: 
             1. Your desktops are all running linux
             2. Your sound cards are compatible with linux/gnophone
       (for me, the sound cards/systems seem to be the
        stumblingblock/hurdle to get past!)

Cheap $30 phones are an option, but you will not get:
    Intercom capability
    Message waiting capability
    CallerID type stuff.

Gnophones may or may not provide intercom, I haven't gotten that far as
to find out.

VOIP phones are expensive, but MAY provide intercom, and other fancy
feature, if Asterisk will allow them. It's not clear yet to me that
Asterisk will allow intercom. Looks like you might get message waiting.

Also, the decision to put large numbers of Voip phones on an already
busy data network, or to put in a separate Voip network, will affect the
prices.

murf



-- 
Steve Murphy <murf@e-tools.com>
Electronic Tools Company
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>The fantastically low prices of using gnophones on existing systems is
>only available IF: 
>             1. Your desktops are all running linux
>             2. Your sound cards are compatible with linux/gnophone
>       (for me, the sound cards/systems seem to be the
>        stumblingblock/hurdle to get past!)
Soft phones won't/shouldn't replace normal desk phones, imo.

On Wednesday 05 November 2003 15:03, Steve Murphy wrote:
> Fundamental Building Blocks:
>
> 1. No more phones serviced than one computer can handle.
Actually, that's incorrect.  Asterisk can be clustered, with routing
between multiple machines accomplished with IAX over Ethernet.

Everything else looks good, though.

-Tilghman

On Wed, Nov 05, 2003 at 02:03:55PM -0700, Steve Murphy
wrote:
> Everyone--
> 
> Here's a cost analysis, rather crude and inspecific, of using Asterisk
> to implement a phone system. I'm really quite naive and new to all
this,
> so I'd appreciate any corrections, tips, pointers, etc, from those in
> the community, who have far greater experience, knowledge, skill, etc.
> than I. Am I forgetting something important? Am I way off in my
> estimates?
> 
> 
> The Minimum Cost of setting up an Asterisk Phone system:
> 
> Fundamental Building Blocks: 
> 
> 1. No more phones serviced than one computer can handle.
> 2. Computer = self-built or whatever, approx. $500 
> 3. OS = Linux. $0
> 4. Phones.
>    Cheap Touch-tone phones: $30 each (Estimate at what I can get
>      at Walmart, quantity one purchases. No digital readout, no
>      programmable features. 
>    Voip Phones $250 estimated per-phone average cost. Realize that
>      costs can vary widely here!
$65 for Grandstream?
> 5. Channel Banks. Looking at what's available on Ebay, I estimate you
>    should be able to pick up a fully loaded, 24-channel FXS/FXO bank for
>    $650 average. Low = $200  High = $4500. I have no way of telling
>    which channel banks are compatible with asterisk. Assume that they
>    are.
> 6. Digium cards:  FXO card = about $100. FXS card = $125. 
>                   4 port FXS=$300. Prices approx. See their web site
>                                    for exact prices.
>                   quad span T1 (96 lines total) $1500
>                   Single span T1 (24 lines) $500
> 7. Wiring. Cost of Wiring is not calculated. Assume that the premises
>            is wired, with patch panels, closets, etc., already in place.
> 8. UPS, power supplies, etc: Not specifically included in the estimates.
> 
> 9. Used equipment can be cheaper, but: if you need a lot, you may not
> necessarily be able to wait around for everything you need to show up on
> ebay. And what you get may not be what you wanted, etc. 
10. Time

11. Expertise (will save you heaps of time)
> 
> Scenarios: 
> 
> 2x4 system:
>             Computer: $500
>             2 FXO   : $200
>             1 4-FXS : $300
>             4 phones: $120
>             --------------
>             Total:  : $1120     cost/phone = $280
> 
> 2x8 system:
>             Computer: $500
>             2 FXO   : $200
>             2 4-FXS : $600
>             8 phones: $240
>             --------------
>             Total:  : $1540     cost/phone = $192.25
> 
> 96 line system ( FXS/FXO mix 88/8)
>             Computer : $ 500
>             QspanT1  : $1500
>             4 ChanBks: $2600
>             88 phones: $2640  
>             ----------------
>             Total:  : $7240     cost/phone = $82.27
> 
> 192 line system (FXS/FXO mix 176/16)
>             Computer : $ 500
>             2 QspT1  : $3000
>             8 ChanBks: $5200
>             176phones: $5280  
>             ----------------
>             Total:  : $13980     cost/phone = $79.43
> 
> Voip 2 x 4 System using gnophone on desk computers, already networked:
>             Computer : $ 500
>             2 FXO    : $ 200
>             4 gnophones: $ 0  
>             ----------------
>             Total:  : $700     cost/phone = $175
> 
> Voip 2 x 4 System using VOIP phone:
>             Computer : $ 500
>             2 FXO    : $ 200
>             4 VOIPs  : $1000 
>             ----------------
>             Total:  : $1700     cost/phone = $425
> 
> Voip 2 x 8 System using gnophones on existing systems on existing
> network:
>             Computer : $ 500
>             2 FXO    : $ 200
>             8 gnophones: $ 0  
>             ----------------
>             Total:  : $700     cost/phone = $87.50
> 
> Voip 2 x 8 System using Voip phones:
>             Computer : $ 500
>             2 FXO    : $ 200
>             8 VOIPs  : $2000
>             ----------------
>             Total:  : $2700     cost/phone = $337.50
> 
> 
> Voip 24 x 192 Phones, using gnophone on existing comps & network:
>             Computer : $ 500
>             1spanT1  : $ 500
>             1 ChanBnk: $ 650
>             192 gnoph: $   0
>             ----------------
>             Total:  : $1650     cost/phone = $10.18
Voip 24 x 192 phones, using Grandstream Voip Phones:
            Computer : $  500
            1spanT1  : $  500
            1 ChanBnk: $  650
            192 GS100: $13440
            switch/hubs: $ ?
            ----------------
            Total:  : $15090+     cost/phone = $78.59+
> 
> 
> The fantastically low prices of using gnophones on existing systems is
> only available IF: 
>              1. Your desktops are all running linux
>              2. Your sound cards are compatible with linux/gnophone
>        (for me, the sound cards/systems seem to be the
>         stumblingblock/hurdle to get past!)
Maybe X-ten X-lite or X-Pro for windows is good too.
> Cheap $30 phones are an option, but you will not get:
>     Intercom capability
>     Message waiting capability
I think you can do stutter tone with TDM400 or channel bank?
>     CallerID type stuff.
Probably distinctive ring for internal/external at least is possible with TDM400
or
channel bank.
 
> Gnophones may or may not provide intercom, I haven't gotten that far as
> to find out.
> 
> VOIP phones are expensive, but MAY provide intercom, and other fancy
> feature, if Asterisk will allow them. It's not clear yet to me that
> Asterisk will allow intercom. Looks like you might get message waiting.
> 
> Also, the decision to put large numbers of Voip phones on an already
> busy data network, or to put in a separate Voip network, will affect the
> prices.
Thanks for this thread I think many will find it useful.

cheers,
Woody

>Here's a cost analysis, rather crude and inspecific, of using Asterisk
>to implement a phone system. I'm really quite naive and new to all this,
>so I'd appreciate any corrections, tips, pointers, etc, from those in
>the community, who have far greater experience, knowledge, skill, etc.
>than I. Am I forgetting something important? Am I way off in my
>estimates?
>
For what it's worth, here's what we actually paid for our system:

    1) CPU: Salvaged from spare parts, estimated cost to purchase:   $500
          Asus A7V133, 900MHz, 256MB,60GB
    2) Two Nics                                                         
                          $50
    3) Digium T100P                                                      
                    $495
    4) 20 GS Budgetone @$65                                             
           $1300
    5) Adtran TSU600 Channel Bank (e-bay + patience)                   
   $99
    6)  2 Dual FXO plugins for TSU  @$100  (used)                        
  $200
    7)   1 Dual FXS Plug in for TSU @$100   (used)                       
   $100
    8)  Asterisk and Linux                                             
                         $0
    9) APC Smart-UPS 700 (used)                                        
              $60

             Total:                                                      
                           $2804        $140/Phone (including phones)
                                                                         
                                                 $75/phone (not 
including phones)

Obviously, this is a bit unrealistic for many of you, since there is no 
cost for the networking infrastructure and wiring.  This already existed 
on our site and in fact is provided by our University.  We also have a 
lot of computer and electronics expertise in our lab, which really 
helps.  By the way, the cost was less than 1/2 the estimate for Analog 
PBX hardware from an outside vendor (no installation) and less than 1/3 
of the quote offered for a system with less functionality from the 
University - and we would have had no control over the system and would 
have been charged an addition $5/month per voice mailbox, even if though 
we had to buy all the hardware! Finally, and this is a real plug for *, 
one of our scientists splits his time between Buffalo and Nova Scotia. I 
was able to place an extension at his Nova Scotia office for exactly
"0"
extra cost!  Our University IT department wasn't even able to quote us 
on that functionality.

Stephen R. Besch

On Wed, 2003-11-05 at 15:03, Steve Murphy wrote:
> Everyone--
> 
> Here's a cost analysis, rather crude and inspecific, of using Asterisk
> to implement a phone system. I'm really quite naive and new to all
this,
> so I'd appreciate any corrections, tips, pointers, etc, from those in
> the community, who have far greater experience, knowledge, skill, etc.
> than I. Am I forgetting something important? Am I way off in my
> estimates?
> 
> 
> The Minimum Cost of setting up an Asterisk Phone system:
> 
> Fundamental Building Blocks: 
> 
> 1. No more phones serviced than one computer can handle.
> 2. Computer = self-built or whatever, approx. $500 
> 3. OS = Linux. $0
> 4. Phones.
>    Cheap Touch-tone phones: $30 each (Estimate at what I can get
>      at Walmart, quantity one purchases. No digital readout, no
>      programmable features. 
I originally picked up this AT&T 957 phone at Office Max for $30.
Currently the links from froogle show many people offering it for around
$30, and one for $20. (http://tinyurl.com/twyi) Speaker phone, CallerID,
callerid memory, and directory dialing. 
>    Voip Phones $250 estimated per-phone average cost. Realize that
>      costs can vary widely here!
> 5. Channel Banks. Looking at what's available on Ebay, I estimate you
>    should be able to pick up a fully loaded, 24-channel FXS/FXO bank for
>    $650 average. Low = $200  High = $4500. I have no way of telling
>    which channel banks are compatible with asterisk. Assume that they
>    are.
> 6. Digium cards:  FXO card = about $100. FXS card = $125. 
>                   4 port FXS=$300. Prices approx. See their web site
>                                    for exact prices.
>                   quad span T1 (96 lines total) $1500
>                   Single span T1 (24 lines) $500
> 7. Wiring. Cost of Wiring is not calculated. Assume that the premises
>            is wired, with patch panels, closets, etc., already in place.
> 8. UPS, power supplies, etc: Not specifically included in the estimates.
> 
> 9. Used equipment can be cheaper, but: if you need a lot, you may not
> necessarily be able to wait around for everything you need to show up on
> ebay. And what you get may not be what you wanted, etc. 
> 
> 
> Scenarios: 
> 2x8 system:
>             Computer: $500
>             2 FXO   : $200
>             2 4-FXS : $600
>             8 phones: $240
>             --------------
>             Total:  : $1540     cost/phone = $192.25
This option may not work in one PC as you have more than 2 Zapata cards.
You will find it difficult to make the cards sit on their own IRQ, then
you will deal with 4 x 1000 interupts a second on the machine. Not to
mention you will be at the end of your potential expansion in a single
machine. You would find it almost the same price to switch to a T100P
and a channel bank with FXO and FXS ports. This would alleviate
headaches of IRQs, and future expansion is probably just a matter of
plugging in more phones.
> 96 line system ( FXS/FXO mix 88/8)
>             Computer : $ 500
>             QspanT1  : $1500
>             4 ChanBks: $2600
>             88 phones: $2640  
>             ----------------
>             Total:  : $7240     cost/phone = $82.27
> 
> 192 line system (FXS/FXO mix 176/16)
>             Computer : $ 500
>             2 QspT1  : $3000
>             8 ChanBks: $5200
>             176phones: $5280  
>             ----------------
>             Total:  : $13980     cost/phone = $79.43
I have a small problem with the above 2 examples in that they assume you
can get by with 11 users to a phone line. I think this is not normally
possible unless you are dealing as a telco serving residential lines
that don't have dialup internet users. I also don't feel that a $500
computer can sustain 8 T1s of traffic today. Maybe in a year the prices
will have fallen enough so that a $500 PC is adequate. 

I suspect the examples above should be stated more likely as a 
96 line system (FXS/FXO mix 72/T1 or PRI 3 users per line)
	Computer  : $ 500
	QspanT1   : $1500
	3 ChanBks : $1950
	72 Phones : $2160
	-----------------
	Total:    : $6110	costs/phone = $ 84.86

192 line system (FXS/FXO mix 168/T1 or PRI ~7 users per line)
	Computer  : $1000   Needs more power
	2 QspT1   : $3000
	7 ChanBks : $4550
	168 phones: $5040
	-----------------
	Total:    :$13590	costs/phone = $80.89

These also have the potential to save money month after month by having
subscribed to a T1 or PRI link and having more phone lines available for
the employees.
> Voip 24 x 192 Phones, using gnophone on existing comps & network:
>             Computer : $ 500
>             1spanT1  : $ 500
>             1 ChanBnk: $ 650
>             192 gnoph: $   0
>             ----------------
>             Total:  : $1650     cost/phone = $10.18
> 
> Voip 24 x 192 phones, using Voip Phones:
>             Computer : $  500
>             1spanT1  : $  500
>             1 ChanBnk: $  650
>             192 gnoph: $48000
>             switch/hubs: $ ?
>             ----------------
>             Total:  : $49650+     cost/phone = $258.59+
These also have problems. At the point you put 24 lines in a system, you
really should be getting T1 or PRI service. When you do that you remove
the channel bank from each of those examples above.
24x192 gnophones drops to a total of $1000, and cost/phone of $5.20
24x192 hardphones drops to $49000 with a cost/phone at $255.20

As has been mentioned you could get some other models of phones that go
for less than $250 each. Not to mention at the 192 mark there will be
some nice price point drops. 

> Cheap $30 phones are an option, but you will not get:
>     Intercom capability
So far this isn't an option with any of the asterisk systems unless you
use an overhead/loudspeaker solution.
>     Message waiting capability
>     CallerID type stuff.
Both of these are possible, Note features listed above regarding the ATT
957.
> Gnophones may or may not provide intercom, I haven't gotten that far as
> to find out.
I think the closest it supports would be an autoanswer.
> VOIP phones are expensive, but MAY provide intercom, and other fancy
> feature, if Asterisk will allow them. It's not clear yet to me that
> Asterisk will allow intercom. Looks like you might get message waiting.
So far it isn't a question of whether or not asterisk will let you, but
if the VoIP protocol supports this function. So far I think we have
determined that it isn't supported but in th SCCP protocol. Maybe this
should be looked at for IAX2 inclusion and for when someone implements a
full on IAX2 hardphone. I'm betting it wouldn't be too hard to embed the
IAXIE(sp?) into a phone like the ATT 957 and have a relay trip the
speaker phone button when you wanted intercom. 

-- 
Steven Critchfield  <critch@basesys.com>