Dear R people,
This message is not a message for help, so strictly off-topic, but I
wanted to reach as many users of R as possible. Please excuse the fact
that it is off-topic.
I use Linux, and the distribution I use is the German based commercial
distribution SuSE. SuSE prides itself on trying to be a comprehensive
distribution of free software. However, they do not include R (or for that
matter ESS) in their distribution. I have written to them a couple of
times about this, to the address feedback at suse.de, which seems to be the
appropriate one. Albrecht Gebhardt, who maintains the SuSE rpms for R and
ESS (contained in the CRAN archives) has also written several times.
Neither of us have ever received a reply.
Now I know that not everyone uses R on a Linux platform, let alone uses
SuSE, but what I feel is that if everyone who uses R on SuSE, and feels
that it should be included in the distribution, writes to SuSE, it will
probably have some effect. Even if you don't use SuSE or even use Linux,
but if you feel that R is good enough to be included, then there is
nothing stopping you from writing, obviously. However, I am mainly asking
people who use SuSE to consider writing.
So, to summarise, if you use SuSE and feel R and/or ESS should be included
in the distribution, consider writing directly to SuSE. Whether or not you
do write to SuSE, let me know if you would like to sign (in an email
sense) a joint letter to SuSE. I thought that it might be a good idea to
send a joint letter to SuSE, with email addresses attached, from everyone
who was interested in R becoming part of the standard SuSE distribution.
If you have read this far, at this point you may be wondering, why bother?
Well, SuSE Linux is the most widely used version of Linux in Europe and is
extensively used elsewhere. The spread of Linux itself is growing. I think
that if R is included in the SuSE distribution, then this may increase R's
dissemination. Not everyone (even those who use Splus) is aware of R's
existence, and there are probably many people who would find a developed
statistical analysis package such as R useful, but cannot afford the
commercial statistical packages. For example, I have heard that TeX/LaTeX
is now being more widely used outside academic environments than ever
before in its history, due to the fact that it is included in most
standard distributions of Linux. A book has even been written called
`Latex for Linux'. Of all the major distributions of Linux, the only one
that tries to be as comprehensive as SuSE is Debian, and I don't use
Debian and am not that familiar with it. It may already include R and ESS
for all I know. So, there seems little point in talking to most of the
other major distributions about this.
I include a sample of the kind of joint letter that I was thinking of
sending SuSE.
Please let me know if you have comments/corrections about the joint
letter, or anything else in this message. Please email me at
faheem at email.unc.edu
Sincerely, Faheem Mitha
Dept of Statistics
Univ. of North Carolina at Chapel Hill
*************************************************************************
Dear SuSE Team,
I am writing to you about the free statistical analysis package R, and the
associated package ESS (Emacs Speaks Statistics), which is a elisp package
that provides a nice interface between Emacs and a number of other
statistical packages, including R and Splus.
R is somewhat similar to Splus version 3. It is actively developed by
people around the world, and has recently reached version 1.0.0,
reflecting the belief of the developers that it has reached a state of
maturity and is ready for wide-spread usage.
We, the undersigned, feel that R and ESS would be a valuable addition to
the excellent and comprehensive SuSE distribution. The SuSE distribution
already contains similar packages. For example, you include Scilab, which
is similar to the commercial package Matlab.
There are already SuSE rpms for R and ESS available on CRAN (Comprehensive
R Archive Network) (COMMENT: include a URL?), which are provided by
Albrecht Gebhardt. You could use these to assist you in integrating R and
ESS into the SuSE distribution.
Sincerely,
(Signatures).
****************************************************************************
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Albrecht Gebhardt
2000-Mar-18 22:00 UTC
[R] Re: including R in the SuSE Linux distribution
It seems we had already success: Today I found a "rstatist" package mentioned on the german SuSE website in the "News" section for the upcoming version 6.4 of SuSE Linux: http://www.suse.de/en/produkte/susesoft/linux/new_in_64.html As the package description at http://www.suse.de/en/produkte/susesoft/linux/Pakete/paket_rstatist.html indicates, it should be more or less equivalent to my R-base rpm. But no ESS included. Available end of march / begin of april. This information is currently only available on www.suse.de and not on www.suse.com. Albrecht ...................................................................... | Albrecht Gebhardt Tel.: (++43 463) 2700/832 | | Institut fuer Mathematik Fax : (++43 463) 2700/834 | | Universitaet Klagenfurt mailto:albrecht.gebhardt at uni-klu.ac.at | | Villacher Str. 161 http://www-stat.uni-klu.ac.at/~agebhard | | A-9020 Klagenfurt, Austria | `--------------------------------------------------------------------' -.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.- r-help mailing list -- Read http://www.ci.tuwien.ac.at/~hornik/R/R-FAQ.html Send "info", "help", or "[un]subscribe" (in the "body", not the subject !) To: r-help-request at stat.math.ethz.ch _._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._
On Sat, 18 Mar 2000, Faheem Mitha wrote: [snip]> > So, to summarise, if you use SuSE and feel R and/or ESS should be included > in the distribution, consider writing directly to SuSE. Whether or not you > do write to SuSE, let me know if you would like to sign (in an email > sense) a joint letter to SuSE. I thought that it might be a good idea to > send a joint letter to SuSE, with email addresses attached, from everyone > who was interested in R becoming part of the standard SuSE distribution. >While sympathising in general with the point I am not sure whether asking the Linux distributors to bundle every bit of potentially useful software in their distos is right. Where do they stop? Even CDs have their limits. Both Linux and R move and develop very rapidly. While it is relatively easy to update R (say) by just replacing the RPMs and maybe the libraries, updating Linux is something that most people only do when they really have to. As a RedHat user I am still on 5.2 purely because it works. Perhaps I need to update to 6.1 but then 6.2 is just round the corner.... So I leave well alone. When I change disto version I do a complete re-install on a fresh disk so I can go back to the old version if necessary (eg I had a big problem with pppd in RH5.2 that meant that I couldn't access my email). What perhaps is needed from the distos is for them to point to CRAN (for R, for example) and to help if required in compiling the RPMs or whatever for *all* their Linux versions. This may relieve some of the load on the R team and enable the user to keep up to date with whatever disto version they have. This will have the benefit to the distos of enabling their users of all versions to access the latest version of R. Just a thought. John -.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.- r-help mailing list -- Read http://www.ci.tuwien.ac.at/~hornik/R/R-FAQ.html Send "info", "help", or "[un]subscribe" (in the "body", not the subject !) To: r-help-request at stat.math.ethz.ch _._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._
On 18-Mar-00 Faheem Mitha wrote:> Dear R people, > [snip] > I use Linux, and the distribution I use is the German based commercial > distribution SuSE. SuSE prides itself on trying to be a comprehensive > distribution of free software. However, they do not include R (or for > that matter ESS) in their distribution. I have written to them a > couple of times about this, to the address feedback at suse.de, which > seems to be the appropriate one. Albrecht Gebhardt, who maintains the > SuSE rpms for R and ESS (contained in the CRAN archives) has also > written several times. Neither of us have ever received a reply.[snip] I have a lot of sympathy with Faheem Mitha's original message (excerpt above). However, maybe a comment or two is in order. For each major Linux distribution (such as SuSE, Red Hat, Debian) there are people associated with putting the distribution together who are "maintainers" for that distribution of each package. Not "maintainer" in the sense of being responsible for development of the software, but responsible for ensuring (and making any necessary minor changes so as to ensure) that the package will compile within that Linux distribution, and that any necessary libraries will be present, compatible, and correctly used; for taking account of distribution-specific peculiarities such as just _where_ in the directory tree different parts should go; etc.; for making sure that none of this clashes with the rest of what goes out on the distribution; and for keeping al this up-to-date as the software package evolves in the hands of its developers. I might hazard a guess that SuSE do not have in their team someone who does this -- or would do it -- for R, as the reason why R does not go out on the SuSE CDs. I did not know that Albrecht Gebhardt had been making RPMs for SuSE (though apparently independently of the SuSE team). Maybe, assuming his packaging could be SuSE-approved, this would be the simplest way to get R into SuSE. Meanwhile, however, as a user of both R, and of SuSE Linux since SuSE-5.1 of 1997, I have never encountered difficulties compiling R on SuSE from the sources; and this is almost as convenient a way to go (except that you have to download the R source instead of finding it on a CD). It also offers you more flexibility in where in your directory tree you put R, as well as add-ons like CODA. However, since I subscribe to the SuSE mailing-list, I could send a mail and see if there's a reply, though Albrecht's message indicates that steps are already being taken. What SuSE, apparently, really need is someone who will do for SuSE what Albrecht has already done in CRAN. Finally, thanks to all of you -- the R developers, and Albrecht and any other people giving similar benefit to the community -- for all that you do to develop and disseminate R. Ted. -------------------------------------------------------------------- E-Mail: (Ted Harding) <Ted.Harding at nessie.mcc.ac.uk> Date: 19-Mar-00 Time: 11:28:55 ------------------------------ XFMail ------------------------------ -.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.- r-help mailing list -- Read http://www.ci.tuwien.ac.at/~hornik/R/R-FAQ.html Send "info", "help", or "[un]subscribe" (in the "body", not the subject !) To: r-help-request at stat.math.ethz.ch _._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._
Hi John. At 12:03 am 19/03/2000 +0000, you wrote:>On Sat, 18 Mar 2000, Faheem Mitha wrote: >[snip] >> So, to summarise, if you use SuSE and feel R and/or ESS should be included >> in the distribution, consider writing directly to SuSE ... >While sympathising in general with the point I am not sure whether asking >the Linux distributors to bundle every bit of potentially useful software >in their distos is right. Where do they stop? Even CDs have their >limits. > >Both Linux and R move and develop very rapidly. While it is relatively >easy to update R (say) by just replacing the RPMs and maybe the libraries, >updating Linux is something that most people only do when they really have >to ...Can't agree with you more with regards to the fact there is only 640MB still on a CD. We use SuSE here at our college in Australia (it probably represents 20% of the Linux usage in Australia against 60% Redhat) but we made the choice to go with SuSE (after been a Slackware campus since early 90's) because of the RPM's and type of *scientific* software that just works. We still have Fortran programmers here ;-) right through to people doing stats and parallel processing work. This is preceisely the sort of encouragment and info the SuSE crowd need! I don't see that a good stats package is any different to having a good database package (like mySQL), and good programming languages and support that work first go!! I'm sure gamer's would use the same logic ;-) Anyway I'm sure the delightful people at SuSE were just waiting for a "real" version (1.0.0) to put it on ;-). After all, even Albrecht Gebhardt in Austria only posted his RPM's a couple of weeks ago (I was there within minutes!). I think that's enough ranting/raving for one monday morning! Cheers. Chris --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Prof Chris Russell Education Development & Research Manager PO Box 5608 Maroochydore BC Queensland, 4558 Australia Ph: +61 7 5479 0744 Fax: +61 7 5479 5611 http://www.qins.edu.au/ chris at qins.edu.au -.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.- r-help mailing list -- Read http://www.ci.tuwien.ac.at/~hornik/R/R-FAQ.html Send "info", "help", or "[un]subscribe" (in the "body", not the subject !) To: r-help-request at stat.math.ethz.ch _._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._