Hello all,
We are ready to spend more than 10.000 euros to help Xen to support Windows
2000
I have the right number?
Less or more than 10.000 euros (20.000 euros?)?
Regards,
Antoine N.
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Pete Taphouse
2004-Dec-09 11:54 UTC
Re: [Xen-devel] "Bounties" on XEN to Windows2000 support
Hi,> We are ready to spend more than 10.000 euros to help Xen to support Windows > 2000 > > I have the right number? > Less or more than 10.000 euros (20.000 euros?)?I asked a Microsoft sales guy about ports of Windows and got this quote forwarded from the Microsoft Research guys in Cambridge <snip> "The XenoXP work is not currently under active development. Whilst there is no *technical* reason that it can''t be done (and it would actually be much easier with the new Xen hypervisor interface), there are many tricky political/legal issues. Basically it comes down to the fact that Windows activation is based on hardware signatures. Running over an open-source virtual machine this is not a meaningful thing to do. To get XP working over Xen I basically had to bypass the activation mechanisms. I know of no easy technical enforcement mechanism to prevent on copy of XP being run an arbitrary number of times. Obviously this would be a breach of the Windows license... We did spend some time with lawyers investigating ways to release XenoXP to the academic research community, but nothing came of it. The obvious direction for VirtualServer to evolve is towards paravirtualization. I believe that there will soon be an MS virtualization product which allows Windows to run very efficiently, and furthermore it will be a *supported* hardware configuration for Windows. Basically, from my own point of view there''s not much more research in completing XenoXP and too many awkward business issues to sort out." </snip> Cheers, -- Peter Taphouse Bytemark Hosting http://www.bytemark-hosting.co.uk tel. +44 (0) 845 004 3 004 ------------------------------------------------------- SF email is sponsored by - The IT Product Guide Read honest & candid reviews on hundreds of IT Products from real users. Discover which products truly live up to the hype. Start reading now. http://productguide.itmanagersjournal.com/ _______________________________________________ Xen-devel mailing list Xen-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/xen-devel
Jan Kundrát
2004-Dec-09 12:42 UTC
Re: [Xen-devel] "Bounties" on XEN to Windows2000 support
> Basically it comes down to the fact that Windows activation is based on > hardware signatures. Running over an open-source virtual machine this > is not a meaningful thing to do. To get XP working over Xen I basically > had to bypass the activation mechanisms. I know of no easy technical > enforcement mechanism to prevent on copy of XP being run an arbitrary > number of times."corporate key" -> no activation at all. if you work for big company and are deploying winXP boxes, you don''t activate them...> Obviously this would be a breach of the Windows license... > > We did spend some time with lawyers investigating ways to release XenoXP > to the academic research community, but nothing came of it. > > The obvious direction for VirtualServer to evolve is towards > paravirtualization. I believe that there will soon be an MS > virtualization product which allows Windows to run very efficiently, and > furthermore it will be a *supported* hardware configuration for Windows.... and you''ll have to pay them for it, of course. I have doubts if they would support running non-MS OSes on the top of it. ------------------------------------------------------- SF email is sponsored by - The IT Product Guide Read honest & candid reviews on hundreds of IT Products from real users. Discover which products truly live up to the hype. Start reading now. http://productguide.itmanagersjournal.com/ _______________________________________________ Xen-devel mailing list Xen-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/xen-devel
Dave Feustel
2004-Dec-09 12:45 UTC
Re: [Xen-devel] "Bounties" on XEN to Windows2000 support
On Thursday 09 December 2004 06:54, Pete Taphouse wrote:> paravirtualizationWhat is this? Thanks, Dave Feustel ------------------------------------------------------- SF email is sponsored by - The IT Product Guide Read honest & candid reviews on hundreds of IT Products from real users. Discover which products truly live up to the hype. Start reading now. http://productguide.itmanagersjournal.com/ _______________________________________________ Xen-devel mailing list Xen-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/xen-devel
Matt Piechota
2004-Dec-09 14:07 UTC
Re: [Xen-devel] "Bounties" on XEN to Windows2000 support
On Thu, 9 Dec 2004, [ISO-8859-1] Jan Kundrát wrote:>> The obvious direction for VirtualServer to evolve is towards >> paravirtualization. I believe that there will soon be an MS >> virtualization product which allows Windows to run very efficiently, >> and furthermore it will be a *supported* hardware configuration for >> Windows. > > ... and you''ll have to pay them for it, of course. I have doubts if they > would support running non-MS OSes on the top of it.Exactly. Microsoft isn''t going to pay someone to develop XP for Xen when they can sell you their own product. Even if you offer to foot the bill, they''re still going to see it as cutting into Virtual Server sales. BTW: Anyone know what happened to www.fsmware.com? I was all ready to start working with FreeBSD and Xen and the website disappears (it pings, but response from the http server). -- Matt Piechota Key Available from pgp.mit.edu PGP Key fingerprint = FC90 4D65 2F8A 38E9 D1A8 FABB 7AE8 C194 5EC8 9CAD
Eric S. Johansson
2004-Dec-09 14:22 UTC
Re: [Xen-devel] "Bounties" on XEN to Windows2000 support
Pete Taphouse wrote:> Basically it comes down to the fact that Windows activation is based on > hardware signatures. Running over an open-source virtual machine this > is not a meaningful thing to do. To get XP working over Xen I basically > had to bypass the activation mechanisms. I know of no easy technical > enforcement mechanism to prevent on copy of XP being run an arbitrary > number of times.did you discuss the possibility of simple USB security fobs? as the base for the activation key? These devices are readily available for lockware and it seems to me this could be easily adapted to this application. Think of it as a fundraiser for the xen project. ---eric -- "Part of the problem with the Wal-Mart business model is that it requires more poverty in order to grow." http://www.salon.com/mwt/feature/2004/11/22/wal_mart/print.html ------------------------------------------------------- SF email is sponsored by - The IT Product Guide Read honest & candid reviews on hundreds of IT Products from real users. Discover which products truly live up to the hype. Start reading now. http://productguide.itmanagersjournal.com/ _______________________________________________ Xen-devel mailing list Xen-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/xen-devel
Antoine NIVARD
2004-Dec-09 14:39 UTC
Re: [Xen-devel] "Bounties" on XEN to Windows2000 support
I asked about Xen support with Linux like the host OS and Windows the guest
OS
On the host system, Linux/Xen can not give virtual networking card, video
card, disk space, etc. ?
like Vmware?
cheers,
Antoine N.
>> Basically it comes down to the fact that Windows activation is based on
>> hardware signatures. Running over an open-source virtual machine this
>> is not a meaningful thing to do. To get XP working over Xen I
basically
>> had to bypass the activation mechanisms. I know of no easy technical
>> enforcement mechanism to prevent on copy of XP being run an arbitrary
>> number of times.
> did you discuss the possibility of simple USB security fobs? as the base
> for the activation key? These devices are readily available for
> lockware and it seems to me this could be easily adapted to this
> application. Think of it as a fundraiser for the xen project.
-------------------------------------------------------
SF email is sponsored by - The IT Product Guide
Read honest & candid reviews on hundreds of IT Products from real users.
Discover which products truly live up to the hype. Start reading now.
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Keir Fraser
2004-Dec-09 15:57 UTC
Re: [Xen-devel] "Bounties" on XEN to Windows2000 support
> > I asked about Xen support with Linux like the host OS and Windows the guest > OS > > > On the host system, Linux/Xen can not give virtual networking card, video > card, disk space, etc. ? > like Vmware? > > cheers, > Antoine N.Next-gen CPUs (Intel VT, AMD Pacifica) will have assistance for virtualisation -- with this help it will be much easier to do VMware-style full virtualisation (*not* trivial by any means, but it will avoid the need for binary rewriting). We hope to support Windows guests when these features become available. However, at this time the release schedules for VT/Pacifica aren''t public knowledge. It is *extremely* unlikely that a paravirtualised Windows guest will be created for Xen 2.0, let alone be publicly released. -- Keir ------------------------------------------------------- SF email is sponsored by - The IT Product Guide Read honest & candid reviews on hundreds of IT Products from real users. Discover which products truly live up to the hype. Start reading now. http://productguide.itmanagersjournal.com/ _______________________________________________ Xen-devel mailing list Xen-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/xen-devel
jean-paul.pigache@bull.net
2004-Dec-09 16:38 UTC
Re: [Xen-devel] "Bounties" on XEN to Windows2000 support
Hi all,
Next-gen CPUs (Intel VT, AMD Pacifica) will have hardware extensions for
virtualisation of the CPUs but they will not help for virtualization of IOs.
This will make possible to run a Windows as a guest O.S. but without any
virtualization of IOs. Correct ?
Jean-Paul P.
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Today''s Topics:
1. "Bounties" on XEN to Windows2000 support (Antoine NIVARD)
2. Re: "Bounties" on XEN to Windows2000 support (Pete Taphouse)
3.
=?iso-8859-1?Q?R=E9f=2E_=3A_Re=3A_[Xen-devel]_=22Bounties=22_on_XEN_to?
Windows2000 support (Antoine NIVARD)
4. Re: "Bounties" on XEN to Windows2000 support
(=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jan_Kundr=E1t?=)
5. Re: "Bounties" on XEN to Windows2000 support (Matt Piechota)
6. Xen source code for IA-64 (jean-paul.pigache@bull.net)
7. Re: "Bounties" on XEN to Windows2000 support (Eric S. Johansson)
8. Re: =?iso-8859-1?q?R=E9f=2E_=3A_Re=3A_=5BXen-devel=5D?
"Bounties" on XEN to Windows2000 support (Wesley Parish)
9. Re: Xen source code for IA-64 (Mark Williamson)
10. Re: "Bounties" on XEN to Windows2000 support (Antoine NIVARD)
11. Re: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?R=E9f.?= : Re: [Xen-devel]
"Bounties" on XEN to Windows2000 support (Tim Freeman)
12. RE: xen problem with save/restore (Ian Pratt)
13. RE: xen problem with save/restore (Paul Larson)
14. Re: "Bounties" on XEN to Windows2000 support (Keir Fraser)
--__--__--
Message: 1
To: xen-devel <xen-devel@lists.sourceforge.net>
From: "Antoine NIVARD" <anivard@macif.fr>
Date: Thu, 9 Dec 2004 09:52:01 +0100
Subject: [Xen-devel] "Bounties" on XEN to Windows2000 support
Hello all,
We are ready to spend more than 10.000 euros to help Xen to support
Windows
2000
I have the right number?
Less or more than 10.000 euros (20.000 euros?)?
Regards,
Antoine N.
--__--__--
Message: 2
Date: Thu, 09 Dec 2004 11:54:54 +0000
From: Pete Taphouse <pete@bytemark.co.uk>
To: xen-devel <xen-devel@lists.sourceforge.net>
Subject: Re: [Xen-devel] "Bounties" on XEN to Windows2000 support
Hi,
> We are ready to spend more than 10.000 euros to help Xen to support
Windows> 2000
>
> I have the right number?
> Less or more than 10.000 euros (20.000 euros?)?
I asked a Microsoft sales guy about ports of Windows and got this quote
forwarded from the Microsoft Research guys in Cambridge
<snip>
"The XenoXP work is not currently under active development. Whilst
there is no *technical* reason that it can''t be done (and it would
actually be much easier with the new Xen hypervisor interface), there
are many tricky political/legal issues.
Basically it comes down to the fact that Windows activation is based on
hardware signatures. Running over an open-source virtual machine this
is not a meaningful thing to do. To get XP working over Xen I basically
had to bypass the activation mechanisms. I know of no easy technical
enforcement mechanism to prevent on copy of XP being run an arbitrary
number of times.
Obviously this would be a breach of the Windows license...
We did spend some time with lawyers investigating ways to release XenoXP
to the academic research community, but nothing came of it.
The obvious direction for VirtualServer to evolve is towards
paravirtualization. I believe that there will soon be an MS
virtualization product which allows Windows to run very efficiently, and
furthermore it will be a *supported* hardware configuration for Windows.
Basically, from my own point of view there''s not much more research in
completing XenoXP and too many awkward business issues to sort out."
</snip>
Cheers,
--
Peter Taphouse
Bytemark Hosting
http://www.bytemark-hosting.co.uk
tel. +44 (0) 845 004 3 004
--__--__--
Message: 3
To: xen-devel <xen-devel@lists.sourceforge.net>
From: "Antoine NIVARD" <anivard@macif.fr>
Date: Thu, 9 Dec 2004 13:14:44 +0100
Subject: [Xen-devel]
=?iso-8859-1?Q?R=E9f=2E_=3A_Re=3A_[Xen-devel]_=22Bounties=22_on_XEN_to?
Windows2000 support
>> We are ready to spend more than 10.000 euros to help Xen to support
Windows>> 2000
>I asked a Microsoft sales guy about ports of Windows and got this quote
>forwarded from the Microsoft Research guys in Cambridge
>"The XenoXP work is not currently under active development. Whilst
>there is no *technical* reason that it can''t be done (and it would
Ok great
>actually be much easier with the new Xen hypervisor interface), there
>are many tricky political/legal issues.
I don''t understand than VMWARE (ESX)[1] can do it, and XenoXP can not.
For example (under a guest Virtual Vmware) the networking card is an AMD
PCNET, video card, etc.
We need to create specials drivers for Xen?
why Xen can''t do that?
Legal issue? developpement under NDA?
regards,
Antoine N.
[1] http://www.vmware.com/products/server/esx_specs.html
NDA: Non "Disclosur" Agrement
--__--__--
Message: 4
Date: Thu, 09 Dec 2004 13:42:47 +0100
From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jan_Kundr=E1t?= <jan.kundrat@fzu.cz>
To: Pete Taphouse <pete@bytemark.co.uk>
CC: xen-devel <xen-devel@lists.sourceforge.net>
Subject: Re: [Xen-devel] "Bounties" on XEN to Windows2000 support
> Basically it comes down to the fact that Windows activation is based on
> hardware signatures. Running over an open-source virtual machine this
> is not a meaningful thing to do. To get XP working over Xen I basically
> had to bypass the activation mechanisms. I know of no easy technical
> enforcement mechanism to prevent on copy of XP being run an arbitrary
> number of times.
"corporate key" -> no activation at all. if you work for big
company and
are deploying winXP boxes, you don''t activate them...
> Obviously this would be a breach of the Windows license...
>
> We did spend some time with lawyers investigating ways to release XenoXP
> to the academic research community, but nothing came of it.
>
> The obvious direction for VirtualServer to evolve is towards
> paravirtualization. I believe that there will soon be an MS
> virtualization product which allows Windows to run very efficiently, and
> furthermore it will be a *supported* hardware configuration for Windows.
... and you''ll have to pay them for it, of course. I have doubts if
they
would support running non-MS OSes on the top of it.
--__--__--
Message: 5
Date: Thu, 9 Dec 2004 09:07:29 -0500 (EST)
From: Matt Piechota <piechota@argolis.org>
To: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jan_Kundr=E1t?= <jan.kundrat@fzu.cz>
cc: Pete Taphouse <pete@bytemark.co.uk>,
xen-devel <xen-devel@lists.sourceforge.net>
Subject: Re: [Xen-devel] "Bounties" on XEN to Windows2000 support
This message is in MIME format. The first part should be readable text,
while the remaining parts are likely unreadable without MIME-aware
tools.
--0-1901446085-1102601249=:85095
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE
On Thu, 9 Dec 2004, [ISO-8859-1] Jan Kundr=E1t wrote:
>> The obvious direction for VirtualServer to evolve is towards=20
>> paravirtualization. I believe that there will soon be an MS=20
>> virtualization product which allows Windows to run very efficiently,=20
>> and furthermore it will be a *supported* hardware configuration for=20
>> Windows.
>
> ... and you''ll have to pay them for it, of course. I have doubts
if
they=20> would support running non-MS OSes on the top of it.
Exactly. Microsoft isn''t going to pay someone to develop XP for Xen
when=20
they can sell you their own product. Even if you offer to foot the bill,=20
they''re still going to see it as cutting into Virtual Server sales.
BTW: Anyone know what happened to www.fsmware.com? I was all ready to=20
start working with FreeBSD and Xen and the website disappears (it
pings,=20
but response from the http server).
--=20
Matt Piechota
Key Available from pgp.mit.edu
PGP Key fingerprint =3D FC90 4D65 2F8A 38E9 D1A8 FABB 7AE8 C194 5EC8 9CAD
--0-1901446085-1102601249=:85095--
--__--__--
Message: 6
To: xen-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
From: jean-paul.pigache@bull.net
Date: Thu, 9 Dec 2004 15:21:55 +0100
Subject: [Xen-devel] Xen source code for IA-64
This is a multipart message in MIME format.
--=_alternative 004EBFC0C1256F65_Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="us-ascii"
Hi Xen people,
I can read in the Xen 3.0 Roadmap that "A port to IA64 is making good
progress".
I have found nothing about IA-64 support in the
"bk://xen.bkbits.net/xeno-unstable.bk" repository.
Could you tell if an advanced version for IA-64 is available and where the
source files can downloaded from ?
Regards
Jean-Paul Pigache
--=_alternative 004EBFC0C1256F65_Content-Type: text/html;
charset="us-ascii"
<br><font size=2 face="Arial">Hi Xen people,</font>
<br>
<br><font size=2 face="Arial">I can read in the Xen 3.0
Roadmap that
"A port to IA64 is making good progress".</font>
<br><font size=2 face="Arial">I have found nothing about
IA-64 support in
the </font><font size=3 face="Times New
Roman">"bk://xen.bkbits.net/xeno-unstable.bk"</font><font
size=2
face="Arial"> repository.</font>
<br><font size=2 face="Arial">Could you tell if an
advanced version for
IA-64 is available and where the source files can downloaded from ?</font>
<br>
<br><font size=2 face="Arial">Regards</font>
<br><font size=2 face="Arial">Jean-Paul
Pigache</font>
<br>
--=_alternative 004EBFC0C1256F65_=--
--__--__--
Message: 7
Date: Thu, 09 Dec 2004 09:22:04 -0500
From: "Eric S. Johansson" <esj@harvee.org>
To: Pete Taphouse <pete@bytemark.co.uk>
Cc: xen-devel <xen-devel@lists.sourceforge.net>
Subject: Re: [Xen-devel] "Bounties" on XEN to Windows2000 support
Pete Taphouse wrote:
> Basically it comes down to the fact that Windows activation is based on
> hardware signatures. Running over an open-source virtual machine this
> is not a meaningful thing to do. To get XP working over Xen I basically
> had to bypass the activation mechanisms. I know of no easy technical
> enforcement mechanism to prevent on copy of XP being run an arbitrary
> number of times.
did you discuss the possibility of simple USB security fobs? as the base
for the activation key? These devices are readily available for
lockware and it seems to me this could be easily adapted to this
application. Think of it as a fundraiser for the xen project.
---eric
--
"Part of the problem with the Wal-Mart business model is that it
requires more poverty in order to grow."
http://www.salon.com/mwt/feature/2004/11/22/wal_mart/print.html
--__--__--
Message: 8
Date: Fri, 10 Dec 2004 03:28:05 +1300
From: Wesley Parish <wes.parish@paradise.net.nz>
Subject: Re: [Xen-devel]
=?iso-8859-1?q?R=E9f=2E_=3A_Re=3A_=5BXen-devel=5D? "Bounties" on XEN
to Windows2000 support
To: xen-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
On Fri, 10 Dec 2004 01:14, Antoine NIVARD wrote:> >> We are ready to spend more than 10.000 euros to help Xen to
support
>
> Windows
>
> >> 2000
> >
> >I asked a Microsoft sales guy about ports of Windows and got this quote
> >forwarded from the Microsoft Research guys in Cambridge
> >
> >"The XenoXP work is not currently under active development.
Whilst
> >there is no *technical* reason that it can''t be done (and it
would
>
> Ok great
>
> >actually be much easier with the new Xen hypervisor interface), there
> >are many tricky political/legal issues.
>
> I don''t understand than VMWARE (ESX)[1] can do it, and XenoXP can
not.
It''s the GPL. Microsoft gets cancer just from thinking about it. Or
Pacman -
it''s not often you see a Microsoft employee turn up to his General
Practitioner seeking medical assistance for a severe case of Pacman.
Chemotherapy doesn''t appear to affect Pacman; neither does radiation
therapy. ;)>
> For example (under a guest Virtual Vmware) the networking card is an AMD
> PCNET, video card, etc.
>
> We need to create specials drivers for Xen?
> why Xen can''t do that?
> Legal issue? developpement under NDA?
It''s actually a deep-seated psychological issue. Microsoft lawyers
have a
deep-seated inferiority complex, as do most of the Microsoft programmers,
and
this is triggered into a full-blown attack of paranoia at the thought
there
is other software out there that people may actually prefer to use instead
of
Microsoft''s Own. It reduces said Microsoft lawyers to tears at the
very
thought that there is freely available source code which they are unable
to
legally sequester.
Unfortunately it is next to impossible to get a Microsoftie (as they are
colloquially known) to acknowledge this psychological issue, thus it is
currently not amenable to treatment. It is also impossible to get them to
consider such treatment as an upgrade of the neuropsychological firmware,
as
this sets up conflicts, because firmware is logically owned by the firm,
and
may only be upgraded at the firm''s pleasure.
;)>
>
>
> regards,
> Antoine N.
>
>
> [1] http://www.vmware.com/products/server/esx_specs.html
> NDA: Non "Disclosur" Agrement
>
<snip>
--
Wesley Parish
* * *
Clinersterton beademung - in all of love. RIP James Blish
* * *
Mau e ki, "He aha te mea nui?"
You ask, "What is the most important thing?"
Maku e ki, "He tangata, he tangata, he tangata."
I reply, "It is people, it is people, it is people."
--__--__--
Message: 9
From: Mark Williamson <maw48@cantab.net>
To: xen-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [Xen-devel] Xen source code for IA-64
Date: Thu, 9 Dec 2004 14:26:24 +0000
Cc: jean-paul.pigache@bull.net
There''s preliminary IA-64 support in xen/arch/ia64. I''m not
sure if any
patches to the Linux kernel are required to run on top of Xen/IA-64 but
they
don''t appear to be in the tree.
Last I heard, Xen/IA-64 can boot a single dom0 kernel successfully.
Cheers,
Mark
On Thursday 09 December 2004 14:21, jean-paul.pigache@bull.net
wrote:> Hi Xen people,
>
> I can read in the Xen 3.0 Roadmap that "A port to IA64 is making good
> progress".
> I have found nothing about IA-64 support in the
> "bk://xen.bkbits.net/xeno-unstable.bk" repository. Could you tell
if an
> advanced version for IA-64 is available and where the source files can
> downloaded from ?
>
> Regards
> Jean-Paul Pigache
--__--__--
Message: 10
Subject: Re: [Xen-devel] "Bounties" on XEN to Windows2000 support
To: xen-devel <xen-devel@lists.sourceforge.net>
From: "Antoine NIVARD" <anivard@macif.fr>
Date: Thu, 9 Dec 2004 15:39:27 +0100
I asked about Xen support with Linux like the host OS and Windows the
guest
OS
On the host system, Linux/Xen can not give virtual networking card, video
card, disk space, etc. ?
like Vmware?
cheers,
Antoine N.
>> Basically it comes down to the fact that Windows activation is based on
>> hardware signatures. Running over an open-source virtual machine this
>> is not a meaningful thing to do. To get XP working over Xen I
basically>> had to bypass the activation mechanisms. I know of no easy technical
>> enforcement mechanism to prevent on copy of XP being run an arbitrary
>> number of times.
> did you discuss the possibility of simple USB security fobs? as the base
> for the activation key? These devices are readily available for
> lockware and it seems to me this could be easily adapted to this
> application. Think of it as a fundraiser for the xen project.
--__--__--
Message: 11
Date: Thu, 9 Dec 2004 09:10:53 -0600
From: Tim Freeman <tfreeman@mcs.anl.gov>
To: "Antoine NIVARD" <anivard@macif.fr>
Cc: xen-devel <xen-devel@lists.sourceforge.net>
Subject: Re: [Xen-devel] =?ISO-8859-1?Q?R=E9f.?= : Re: [Xen-devel]
"Bounties" on XEN to Windows2000 support
On Thu, 9 Dec 2004 13:14:44 +0100
"Antoine NIVARD" <anivard@macif.fr> wrote:
>
>
> >> We are ready to spend more than 10.000 euros to help Xen to
support
> Windows
> >> 2000
>
> >I asked a Microsoft sales guy about ports of Windows and got this quote
> >forwarded from the Microsoft Research guys in Cambridge
>
> >"The XenoXP work is not currently under active development.
Whilst
> >there is no *technical* reason that it can''t be done (and it
would
> Ok great
>
> >actually be much easier with the new Xen hypervisor interface), there
> >are many tricky political/legal issues.
> I don''t understand than VMWARE (ESX)[1] can do it, and XenoXP can
not.
VMware products do not need to port the OS kernel to run Windows; this
is different than just providing special I/O drivers.
http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/Research/SRG/netos/xen/architecture.html
>
> For example (under a guest Virtual Vmware) the networking card is an AMD
> PCNET, video card, etc.
>
> We need to create specials drivers for Xen?
> why Xen can''t do that?
> Legal issue? developpement under NDA?
>
>
>
> regards,
> Antoine N.
>
>
> [1] http://www.vmware.com/products/server/esx_specs.html
> NDA: Non "Disclosur" Agrement
>
>
>
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------
> SF email is sponsored by - The IT Product Guide
> Read honest & candid reviews on hundreds of IT Products from real
users.
> Discover which products truly live up to the hype. Start reading now.
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>
--__--__--
Message: 12
Subject: RE: [Xen-devel] xen problem with save/restore
Date: Thu, 9 Dec 2004 15:47:06 -0000
From: "Ian Pratt" <m+Ian.Pratt@cl.cam.ac.uk>
To: "Paul Larson" <plars@linuxtestproject.org>,
"Keir Fraser" <Keir.Fraser@cl.cam.ac.uk>
Cc: "xen-devel" <xen-devel@lists.sourceforge.net>
> > The latest 2.0-testing and unstable trees only differ in that a new
> > ''blktap'' driver was added to the unstable tree,
which is not even=20
> > built by default. It really looks to be impossible that you=20
> could be=20
> > seeing different behaviour between the two repositories. :-/
> I see, I was running a diff of the trees a while ago and I=20
> see what you mean. However, it has been very easy to=20
> reproduce this under testing, but on unstable, it never=20
> failed for me even once. So, I installed gcc
> 3.2 and tried compiling testing with that, and it works now,=20
> no crash!=20
> So it looks like it is a compiler issue after all.
Which compiler from which distro were you using before? I''d like to get
to the bottom of this as other people have seen the same problem. We''d
be grateful if you could confirm that building with the other compiler
causes the bug.
Thanks,
Ian
--__--__--
Message: 13
Subject: RE: [Xen-devel] xen problem with save/restore
From: Paul Larson <plars@linuxtestproject.org>
To: Ian Pratt <m+Ian.Pratt@cl.cam.ac.uk>
Cc: Keir Fraser <Keir.Fraser@cl.cam.ac.uk>,
xen-devel <xen-devel@lists.sourceforge.net>
Date: Thu, 09 Dec 2004 15:56:37 -0600
On Thu, 2004-12-09 at 09:47, Ian Pratt wrote:> Which compiler from which distro were you using before? I''d like
to get
> to the bottom of this as other people have seen the same problem.
We''d
> be grateful if you could confirm that building with the other compiler
> causes the bug.
gcc version 3.3.4 (Debian 1:3.3.4-13) -> Bug with 2.0-testing
gcc version 3.2.3 (Debian) -> No bug with 2.0-testing
I can also try 3.4 pretty easily later today if you''d like
Thanks,
Paul Larson
--__--__--
Message: 14
To: "Antoine NIVARD" <anivard@macif.fr>
cc: xen-devel <xen-devel@lists.sourceforge.net>
Subject: Re: [Xen-devel] "Bounties" on XEN to Windows2000 support
Date: Thu, 09 Dec 2004 15:57:10 +0000
From: Keir Fraser <Keir.Fraser@cl.cam.ac.uk>
>
> I asked about Xen support with Linux like the host OS and Windows the
guest> OS
>
>
> On the host system, Linux/Xen can not give virtual networking card,
video> card, disk space, etc. ?
> like Vmware?
>
> cheers,
> Antoine N.
Next-gen CPUs (Intel VT, AMD Pacifica) will have assistance for
virtualisation -- with this help it will be much easier to do
VMware-style full virtualisation (*not* trivial by any means, but it
will avoid the need for binary rewriting).
We hope to support Windows guests when these features become
available. However, at this time the release schedules for VT/Pacifica
aren''t public knowledge.
It is *extremely* unlikely that a paravirtualised Windows guest will
be created for Xen 2.0, let alone be publicly released.
-- Keir
--__--__--
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End of Xen-devel Digest
jean-paul.pigache@bull.net
2004-Dec-09 16:51 UTC
Re: [Xen-devel] "Bounties" on XEN to Windows2000 support
Hi all, Next-gen CPUs (Intel VT, AMD Pacifica) will have hardware extensions for virtualisation of the CPUs but they will not help for virtualization of IOs. This will make possible to run a Windows as a guest O.S. but without any virtualization of IOs. Correct ? Jean-Paul P.
Keir Fraser
2004-Dec-09 16:57 UTC
Re: [Xen-devel] "Bounties" on XEN to Windows2000 support
> Hi all, > > Next-gen CPUs (Intel VT, AMD Pacifica) will have hardware extensions for > virtualisation of the CPUs but they will not help for virtualization of IOs. > This will make possible to run a Windows as a guest O.S. but without any > virtualization of IOs. Correct ?Yes, virtualisation of some standard hardware devices (e.g., basic NIC, IDE, ...) needs to be done in software. -- Keir ------------------------------------------------------- SF email is sponsored by - The IT Product Guide Read honest & candid reviews on hundreds of IT Products from real users. Discover which products truly live up to the hype. Start reading now. http://productguide.itmanagersjournal.com/ _______________________________________________ Xen-devel mailing list Xen-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/xen-devel
Mark Williamson
2004-Dec-09 17:46 UTC
Re: [Xen-devel] "Bounties" on XEN to Windows2000 support
> > paravirtualization > > What is this?Paravirtualisation is where the virtual machine monitor doesn''t provide the illusion of real hardware but of a new virtual platform that''s better suited to virtualisation (In Xen''s case, the Xen <-> guest OS interface is the new virtual platform). On an architecture like x86, which is difficult to virtualise, this makes it possible to produce simpler and higher performance virtual machine monitors *But* it requires modifications to the guest OS. Contrast this to Full Virtualisation solutions (like VMWare) where the Guest OS believes it is running on a real physical machine, with real world hardware devices. This gives good support for unmodified OSs but it''s harder to do and incurs some performance penalty. HTH, Mark ------------------------------------------------------- SF email is sponsored by - The IT Product Guide Read honest & candid reviews on hundreds of IT Products from real users. Discover which products truly live up to the hype. Start reading now. http://productguide.itmanagersjournal.com/ _______________________________________________ Xen-devel mailing list Xen-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/xen-devel