Hi lists, I''m new in this list even though I''ve been playing with Xen a lot in these last days. Give me a warm welcome please. :) Just a couple of questions to make me better understand the structure of Xen. During the installation, is the kernel used by guest in para virtualization mode the one shipped into the guest''s media or the one running on the host machine? Is it the same also after installation? TIA, Jan _______________________________________________ Xen-users mailing list Xen-users@lists.xensource.com http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users
On 12/19/06, Jan Kalcic <jandot@googlemail.com> wrote:> I''m new in this list even though I''ve been playing with Xen a lot in > these last days. Give me a warm welcome please. :)You''re welcome, still, please read some docs before asking questions here that are obviously well documented. It''s also not a bad idea to try things first before asking the list (with the exception that you really have no idea where to start ), and then ask a questions about a concrete problem with a thing you want to do but that does not work.> During the installation, is the kernel used by guest in para > virtualization mode the one shipped into the guest''s media > or the one > running on the host machine? Is it the same also after installation?It depends very much on which dom0 distribution you install and how you install. In most cases, you don''t install xen paravirtual guests from the distribution install cd as if you do a bare metal install as most cd''s don''t provide a xen kernel, this is simply not possible. (you should really read at least some of the docs available on how to install paravirtual guests, then this should be clear quite fast). The kernel used is the one provided by your xen packages lying around in /boot of the Dom0 system. It doesn''t have to be the one _running_ on the dom0 machine, but in general it is _available_ on the dom0 machine. You do this kind of thing when installing in hvm mode. Don''t mix them up. Fedora is a bit different - it''s install scripts (virt.install/virt-manager) install the kernel into the guests block device, and boot the system via pygrub - there the kernek is inside the domu. Henning _______________________________________________ Xen-users mailing list Xen-users@lists.xensource.com http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users
On Tue, 19 Dec 2006 15:16:18 +0100 "Henning Sprang" <henning_sprang@gmx.de> wrote:> You''re welcome, still, please read some docs before asking questions > here that are obviously well documented.I''ve been trying to figure out this stuff for a while now, and I can state with absolute certainty that there are NO well documented issues :-). There may be things that seem well documented to people who were into Xen at the start of the conversation, but to anyone starting from scratch, it is a lot like speaking only English and trying to understand two guys having a conversation in Dutch next door - it sounds kind of like English, but you can''t actually make out any of the words. Anyone wanting to work on improving the docs can take a look at my ever evolving web page with my discoveries in sorta chronological order to get an idea about what confuses a total Xen novice: http://home.att.net/~Tom.Horsley/xen-fci.html _______________________________________________ Xen-users mailing list Xen-users@lists.xensource.com http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users
On 12/20/06, Tom Horsley <tomhorsley@adelphia.net> wrote:> [...] > I''ve been trying to figure out this stuff for a while now, and I > can state with absolute certainty that there are NO well documented > issues :-).You are right, sort-of... _______________________________________________ Xen-users mailing list Xen-users@lists.xensource.com http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users
Christopher G. Stach II
2006-Dec-20 03:57 UTC
Re: [Xen-users] which kernel does guest use?
Tom Horsley wrote:> On Tue, 19 Dec 2006 15:16:18 +0100 > "Henning Sprang" <henning_sprang@gmx.de> wrote: > >> You''re welcome, still, please read some docs before asking questions >> here that are obviously well documented. > > I''ve been trying to figure out this stuff for a while now, and I > can state with absolute certainty that there are NO well documented > issues :-). > > There may be things that seem well documented to people who were > into Xen at the start of the conversation, but to anyone > starting from scratch, it is a lot like speaking only English > and trying to understand two guys having a conversation in Dutch > next door - it sounds kind of like English, but you can''t actually > make out any of the words.So, what you''re saying is that the documentation is fine, but the audience is retarded? -- Christopher G. Stach II _______________________________________________ Xen-users mailing list Xen-users@lists.xensource.com http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users
On 19 Dec 2006 at 18:14, Tom Horsley wrote:> On Tue, 19 Dec 2006 15:16:18 +0100 > "Henning Sprang" <henning_sprang@gmx.de> wrote: > > > You''re welcome, still, please read some docs before asking questions > > here that are obviously well documented. > > I''ve been trying to figure out this stuff for a while now, and I > can state with absolute certainty that there are NO well documented > issues :-).But (I hope you''ll agree): XEN uses the kernel to boot a VM that was specified in either the configuration file or command line. We''d expect people to read that much documentation before asking which kernel will be used. Another part of the documentation says that an unmodified kernel won''t work for paravirtualization. That answers at least one further question.> > There may be things that seem well documented to people who were > into Xen at the start of the conversation, but to anyone > starting from scratch, it is a lot like speaking only English > and trying to understand two guys having a conversation in Dutch > next door - it sounds kind of like English, but you can''t actually > make out any of the words.I agree that the documentation of XEN still is quite poor. Maybe because it was a research project. Ulrich> > Anyone wanting to work on improving the docs can take a look at my > ever evolving web page with my discoveries in sorta chronological > order to get an idea about what confuses a total Xen novice: > > http://home.att.net/~Tom.Horsley/xen-fci.html-- Ulrich Windl Novell Certified Linux Professional _______________________________________________ Xen-users mailing list Xen-users@lists.xensource.com http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users
On Tue, Dec 19, 2006 at 06:14:37PM -0500, Tom Horsley wrote:> On Tue, 19 Dec 2006 15:16:18 +0100 > "Henning Sprang" <henning_sprang@gmx.de> wrote: > > > You''re welcome, still, please read some docs before asking questions > > here that are obviously well documented. > > I''ve been trying to figure out this stuff for a while now, and I > can state with absolute certainty that there are NO well documented > issues :-). > > There may be things that seem well documented to people who were > into Xen at the start of the conversation, but to anyone > starting from scratch, it is a lot like speaking only English > and trying to understand two guys having a conversation in Dutch > next door - it sounds kind of like English, but you can''t actually > make out any of the words. > > Anyone wanting to work on improving the docs can take a look at my > ever evolving web page with my discoveries in sorta chronological > order to get an idea about what confuses a total Xen novice: > > http://home.att.net/~Tom.Horsley/xen-fci.htmlThanks for posting that link / document. I''ve probably come across everyone of those issues at one point or another in working with Xen. Trouble is that like most of the team working on Xen in Fedora, I''m now soo familiar with code that the solutions/workarounds are second nature - thus it is not always obvious to us which areas needs more work / better documentation. So feedback like this is always invaluable :-) Some of the technical issues will be addressed in new Xen 3.0.4 and/or Fedora 7 - the ''Error -22 Invalid argument'' message in particular has been banished! Others such as geetting suspend / resume / power management working with Xen are pretty much intractable for now - KVM is the best hope in that area, since Linux is the hypervisor for KVM, all existing stuff like that should just work. When working on the documentation / release notes we''ll also try to cover many more of the issues your doc has highlighted as unclear. Regards, Dan. -- |=- Red Hat, Engineering, Emerging Technologies, Boston. +1 978 392 2496 -=| |=- Perl modules: http://search.cpan.org/~danberr/ -=| |=- Projects: http://freshmeat.net/~danielpb/ -=| |=- GnuPG: 7D3B9505 F3C9 553F A1DA 4AC2 5648 23C1 B3DF F742 7D3B 9505 -=| _______________________________________________ Xen-users mailing list Xen-users@lists.xensource.com http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users
Ulrich Windl wrote:> On 19 Dec 2006 at 18:14, Tom Horsley wrote: > > >> On Tue, 19 Dec 2006 15:16:18 +0100 >> "Henning Sprang" <henning_sprang@gmx.de> wrote: >> >> >>> You''re welcome, still, please read some docs before asking questions >>> here that are obviously well documented. >>> >> I''ve been trying to figure out this stuff for a while now, and I >> can state with absolute certainty that there are NO well documented >> issues :-). >> > >That''s exaclty what I''d though before posting here.> But (I hope you''ll agree): XEN uses the kernel to boot a VM that was specified in > either the configuration file or command line. We''d expect people to read that > much documentation before asking which kernel will be used. > > Another part of the documentation says that an unmodified kernel won''t work for > paravirtualization. That answers at least one further question. > >I agree. Documentation talks about what you say but the answer to my question is not written on doc. Just because I ask an "explanation". As I said, I read carefully the documentation but I couldn''t clearly understand that concept. I''ve just asked to better understand what I couldn''t really get by myself about this new world (at least for me) of Xen. That''s it. I eventually managed to install both full and paravirtualized machines on my system, I played with file disk and whatever. Right now I run a virtual/virtual cluster and I did everything from scratch. Thank documentation! So, let me say that this is not the case of "RTFM". Let me add a note. Honestly, I like when people want to know, people ask and I''m happy when I can give an advice which let someone else learns something new. Obvioulsy, I don''t like when people ask something written on the "homepage" or in the FAQ but I don''t behave like "you''re lazy, you''re stupid, you can''t even read!!". People is allow to not understand and I can''t see the fact that someone has to be scared of posting in mailing lists. "Did I really read all the documentation?? Did I really check on google?? Did I spent at least two nights before posting?? Will they think I have to be restarted??" Nothing personal guys, but I like saying what I think. I''d take it easier and when someone ask something really stupid, I just smile. :) Jan>> There may be things that seem well documented to people who were >> into Xen at the start of the conversation, but to anyone >> starting from scratch, it is a lot like speaking only English >> and trying to understand two guys having a conversation in Dutch >> next door - it sounds kind of like English, but you can''t actually >> make out any of the words. >> > > I agree that the documentation of XEN still is quite poor. Maybe because it was a > research project. > > Ulrich > > >> Anyone wanting to work on improving the docs can take a look at my >> ever evolving web page with my discoveries in sorta chronological >> order to get an idea about what confuses a total Xen novice: >> >> http://home.att.net/~Tom.Horsley/xen-fci.html >> > -- > Ulrich Windl > Novell Certified Linux Professional > > > > _______________________________________________ > Xen-users mailing list > Xen-users@lists.xensource.com > http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users > >_______________________________________________ Xen-users mailing list Xen-users@lists.xensource.com http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users
On 12/20/06, Jan Kalcic <jandot@googlemail.com> wrote:> [...] > but I don''t behave like "you''re lazy, > you''re stupid, you can''t even read!!".I''m sorry when what I said sounded like this. I don''t want to have that attitude, I do myself sometimes ask "stupid sounding" questions or forget to google or look at the archive properly. But maybe sometimes it comes through, wehn from *my* point of view it seems like somebody else did not look in the docs... Apologies, Henning _______________________________________________ Xen-users mailing list Xen-users@lists.xensource.com http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users
Christopher G. Stach II
2006-Dec-20 17:19 UTC
Re: [Xen-users] which kernel does guest use?
Jan Kalcic wrote:> I agree. Documentation talks about what you say but the answer to my > question is not written on doc. Just because I ask an "explanation". > As I said, I read carefully the documentation but I couldn''t clearly > understand that concept. I''ve just asked to better understand what I > couldn''t really get by myself about this new world (at least for me) of > Xen. That''s it. I eventually managed to install both full and > paravirtualized machines on my system, I played with file disk and > whatever. Right now I run a virtual/virtual cluster and I did everything > from scratch. Thank documentation! So, let me say that this is not the > case of "RTFM".Regardless, the original questions were: During the installation, is the kernel used by guest in para virtualization mode the one shipped into the guest''s media or the one running on the host machine? Is it the same also after installation? Given the possibility of language barrier, I tried to make as much sense out of that as possible. What I came up with was: RTFM. The structure of Xen, how it works, and what the kernels do is explained multiple times in multiple places in the Xen docs. It''s also all over the net, easily found by google. If you don''t at least understand the basics, you haven''t done your homework. -- Christopher G. Stach II _______________________________________________ Xen-users mailing list Xen-users@lists.xensource.com http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users