On 30/11/2014, 9:56 AM, F?bio Magalh?es wrote:> My bad, r-help messages indeed have the unsubscribe header set. Also, > at least for Gmail a "Precedence: bulk" should be set in order to this > mechanism to work, as Henrik pointed out. > > Currently the raw headers set precedence to "list". I don't know the > technical differences of list and bulk, so maybe switching from one to > the other can impose some tradeoffs.It would break everyone's filters that currently work, to help Gmail's filters that don't work. Seems like a pretty bad tradeoff to me. Why don't you complain to Google about Gmail? Duncan Murdoch> > So I see three possibilities: leave as it is now, switch precedence to > "bulk" if it doesn't interfere on list behavior and have at least a > small unsubscribe button on some email clients or add an unsubscribe > link to footer. > > #! F?bio > > > On Sun, Nov 30, 2014 at 12:30 PM, Ranjan Maitra > <maitra.mbox.ignored at inbox.com> wrote: >> I agree with this sentiment and suggestion. I can not see much of a downside to it, with the exception that most of these "unsophisticated" users will probably not even bother reading it. But then we would all be back in the current situation, not worse. >> >> Ranjan >> >> On Sat, 29 Nov 2014 21:58:23 -0500 listserve <tomuxiong at gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> Any mailing list which respects its recipients makes unsubscribing as >>> easy as possible. If users are having trouble doing so, it's clearly not >>> easy enough. >>> >>> I think putting a directly link in every message is certainly the right >>> thing to do. >>> >>> On 11/29/2014 09:14 PM, Rolf Turner wrote: >>>> On 30/11/14 14:16, John Sorkin wrote: >>>>> I don't see a link that is labeled "unsubscribe". >>>> >>>> <SNIP> >>>> >>>>>> On Nov 29, 2014, at 7:35 PM, Jeff Newmiller <jdnewmil at dcn.davis.CA.us> >>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> In what way would that be unlike the link that is already there? >>>> >>>> <SNIP> >>>> >>>>>> On November 29, 2014 4:09:29 PM PST, John Sorkin >>>>> <jsorkin at grecc.umaryland.edu> wrote: >>>>>>>> Requests like this appear from time to time. Would it make sense to >>>>>>> add a link to the bottom of the email messages generated by the mail >>>>>>> program that is labeled and goes directly to the unsubscribe page? >>>> >>>> Well, there is no "unsubscribe" page as such. The link given, i.e. >>>> >>>> https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help >>>> >>>> takes you to the primary help page. That provides a link to a (password >>>> protected) page where you can handle all matters pertaining to your >>>> r-help subscription, including unsubscribing. >>>> >>>> I suppose that it might be possible to provide a link taking one >>>> directly to this second page, but: >>>> >>>> (1) It would add clutter (I'm sure we don't want to delete the link to >>>> the primary help page). >>>> >>>> (2) The password protection might get complicated; I don't know about >>>> such matters. >>>> >>>> (3) I don't think we want to waste time and resources helping people who >>>> are too stupid and illiterate to find their way to the unsubscribe >>>> facility on the basis of what is already provided. They shouldn't be >>>> R users in the first place. One needs at least two grey cells to rub >>>> together to deal with R. >>>> >>>> cheers, >>>> >>>> Rolf Turner >>>> >>> >>> ______________________________________________ >>> R-help at r-project.org mailing list >>> https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help >>> PLEASE do read the posting guide http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html >>> and provide commented, minimal, self-contained, reproducible code. >>> >> >> >> -- >> Important Notice: This mailbox is ignored: e-mails are set to be deleted on receipt. Please respond to the mailing list if appropriate. For those needing to send personal or professional e-mail, please use appropriate addresses. >> >> ____________________________________________________________ >> FREE 3D EARTH SCREENSAVER - Watch the Earth right on your desktop! >> >> ______________________________________________ >> R-help at r-project.org mailing list >> https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help >> PLEASE do read the posting guide http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html >> and provide commented, minimal, self-contained, reproducible code. > > ______________________________________________ > R-help at r-project.org mailing list > https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help > PLEASE do read the posting guide http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html > and provide commented, minimal, self-contained, reproducible code. >
Duncan, You are right, I've assumed precedence wouldn't break anything, but looking a little more into this issue it seems some people use filters based on this header and Gmail seems to be the only client that needs bulk precedence set to make unsubscribe link work. I think the question boils down to putting an unsubscribe link on footer or not. #! F?bio On Sun, Nov 30, 2014 at 1:20 PM, Duncan Murdoch <murdoch.duncan at gmail.com> wrote:> On 30/11/2014, 9:56 AM, F?bio Magalh?es wrote: >> My bad, r-help messages indeed have the unsubscribe header set. Also, >> at least for Gmail a "Precedence: bulk" should be set in order to this >> mechanism to work, as Henrik pointed out. >> >> Currently the raw headers set precedence to "list". I don't know the >> technical differences of list and bulk, so maybe switching from one to >> the other can impose some tradeoffs. > > It would break everyone's filters that currently work, to help Gmail's > filters that don't work. Seems like a pretty bad tradeoff to me. > > Why don't you complain to Google about Gmail? > > Duncan Murdoch > >> >> So I see three possibilities: leave as it is now, switch precedence to >> "bulk" if it doesn't interfere on list behavior and have at least a >> small unsubscribe button on some email clients or add an unsubscribe >> link to footer. >> >> #! F?bio >> >> >> On Sun, Nov 30, 2014 at 12:30 PM, Ranjan Maitra >> <maitra.mbox.ignored at inbox.com> wrote: >>> I agree with this sentiment and suggestion. I can not see much of a downside to it, with the exception that most of these "unsophisticated" users will probably not even bother reading it. But then we would all be back in the current situation, not worse. >>> >>> Ranjan >>> >>> On Sat, 29 Nov 2014 21:58:23 -0500 listserve <tomuxiong at gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>>> Any mailing list which respects its recipients makes unsubscribing as >>>> easy as possible. If users are having trouble doing so, it's clearly not >>>> easy enough. >>>> >>>> I think putting a directly link in every message is certainly the right >>>> thing to do. >>>> >>>> On 11/29/2014 09:14 PM, Rolf Turner wrote: >>>>> On 30/11/14 14:16, John Sorkin wrote: >>>>>> I don't see a link that is labeled "unsubscribe". >>>>> >>>>> <SNIP> >>>>> >>>>>>> On Nov 29, 2014, at 7:35 PM, Jeff Newmiller <jdnewmil at dcn.davis.CA.us> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> In what way would that be unlike the link that is already there? >>>>> >>>>> <SNIP> >>>>> >>>>>>> On November 29, 2014 4:09:29 PM PST, John Sorkin >>>>>> <jsorkin at grecc.umaryland.edu> wrote: >>>>>>>>> Requests like this appear from time to time. Would it make sense to >>>>>>>> add a link to the bottom of the email messages generated by the mail >>>>>>>> program that is labeled and goes directly to the unsubscribe page? >>>>> >>>>> Well, there is no "unsubscribe" page as such. The link given, i.e. >>>>> >>>>> https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help >>>>> >>>>> takes you to the primary help page. That provides a link to a (password >>>>> protected) page where you can handle all matters pertaining to your >>>>> r-help subscription, including unsubscribing. >>>>> >>>>> I suppose that it might be possible to provide a link taking one >>>>> directly to this second page, but: >>>>> >>>>> (1) It would add clutter (I'm sure we don't want to delete the link to >>>>> the primary help page). >>>>> >>>>> (2) The password protection might get complicated; I don't know about >>>>> such matters. >>>>> >>>>> (3) I don't think we want to waste time and resources helping people who >>>>> are too stupid and illiterate to find their way to the unsubscribe >>>>> facility on the basis of what is already provided. They shouldn't be >>>>> R users in the first place. One needs at least two grey cells to rub >>>>> together to deal with R. >>>>> >>>>> cheers, >>>>> >>>>> Rolf Turner >>>>> >>>> >>>> ______________________________________________ >>>> R-help at r-project.org mailing list >>>> https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help >>>> PLEASE do read the posting guide http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html >>>> and provide commented, minimal, self-contained, reproducible code. >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Important Notice: This mailbox is ignored: e-mails are set to be deleted on receipt. Please respond to the mailing list if appropriate. For those needing to send personal or professional e-mail, please use appropriate addresses. >>> >>> ____________________________________________________________ >>> FREE 3D EARTH SCREENSAVER - Watch the Earth right on your desktop! >>> >>> ______________________________________________ >>> R-help at r-project.org mailing list >>> https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help >>> PLEASE do read the posting guide http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html >>> and provide commented, minimal, self-contained, reproducible code. >> >> ______________________________________________ >> R-help at r-project.org mailing list >> https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help >> PLEASE do read the posting guide http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html >> and provide commented, minimal, self-contained, reproducible code. >> >
> On 30 Nov 2014, at 16:51 , F?bio Magalh?es <fmagalhaes at gmail.com> wrote: > > Duncan, > > You are right, I've assumed precedence wouldn't break anything, but > looking a little more into this issue it seems some people use filters > based on this header and Gmail seems to be the only client that needs > bulk precedence set to make unsubscribe link work. > > I think the question boils down to putting an unsubscribe link on footer or not.Yes, I see two main issues (a) would people actually take the hint, whatever we put in the footer? (b) there's a limit to how much claptrap everyone else want to see in each and every post However, what about just doing something like> ______________________________________________ > R-help at r-project.org mailing list. ADMINISTRATIVE INTERFACE (INCL. UNSUBSCRIPTION) AT > https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help > PLEASE do read the posting guide http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html > and provide commented, minimal, self-contained, reproducible code.(Not actually using all-caps of course) -pd -- Peter Dalgaard, Professor, Center for Statistics, Copenhagen Business School Solbjerg Plads 3, 2000 Frederiksberg, Denmark Phone: (+45)38153501 Email: pd.mes at cbs.dk Priv: PDalgd at gmail.com