>> > - Most listeners will have to upgrade to a new client or >> > install a plugin. >> >> I don't see a way around this in the general case, until Ogg is so >> widely used that it would be a bad business idea not to support it. I > >Completely agree. I know it's a chicken-and-egg thing, and I am >competely sympathetic--it's just the "Welcome to the 21st Century" >attitude of the previous poster that irked me. Things are not so >cut-and-dried for those of us trying to make our audio accessible >to as many people as possible, with the minimum hassle and >maximum quality.I'm attempting to start up a new radio, and my opinion is that when most people hear the sound quality of Ogg Vorbis, they won't mind upgrading (especially modem users used to crappy 24Kbps MP3 streams). However, that attitude just may kill me. ;P>> That said, we are hoping to have RealPlayer auto-update support in the >> near future. [snip] > >I just returned from OSCON, and went to a talk by an engineer from >RealNetworks. She talked about how simple it was to integrate Ogg >Vorbis support into the Helix Server / Producer framework, which >you can now download and build from CVS. Of course they were plugging >their semi-open platform, and sadly hadn't even thought about taking >the next step to stream it, or receive it in their client--only >static encoding to files right now. Your name actually came up when >I asked her about streaming, although I wasn't clear what she thought >you were doing in this regard.Dude, if RealPlayer gets Icecast2/Vorbis support, that's just one more step in the right direction. Most people don't use WinAmp, but WiMP, Real, or iTunes (which is unfortunate). If you guys at Xiph can get WiMP to accept Icecast2 streams somehow, then I'll really be rejoicing. ^_^>And WRT WinAMP 3--maybe I'm just getting lucky. If I hack my icecast >2 server to emit "application/x-ogg" as the mime type, it seems to >play back fine without locking up. But I realize WinAMP 3 should and >will go the way of the dodo. I'm just not sure how to tell folks in >the interim "Downgrade to WinAMP 2.91."How about because WinAmp 2.91 *isn't* a downgrade? The only thing that WinAmp 3 has over 2.91 is the skinning interface. WA2 has some features that were never bothered to be ported to WA3, and what extra features were in WA3 were added in with WA 2.90>Thanks, Jack. Keep up the great work. Ogg deserves to take over-- >the quality of our low-bitrate (~50Kbps forced VBR) test stream is >nothing short of stunning.See? ;) I'm hoping that's what kind of reaction listeners will have.>Matt- Chris --- >8 ---- List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ icecast project homepage: http://www.icecast.org/ To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'icecast-request@xiph.org' containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered.
I think when the real-time cbr encoding issues are sorted Vorbis (this is my experience with oddcast dsp, winamp and icecast 2 win32, big cpu hog) will start gaining more ground, also I think it will also gain more ground when it starts getting implemented into the more mainstream software and hardware products. For the most part vbr mp3 (btw, provide mp3's for downloads as vbr.. Better quality for filesize than cbr) is more than suitable, however where I think Vorbis should be focused on is the lower bitrate area because quite frankly like I said mp3 is more than suitable for anything greater than 160kbps, but at lower bitrates Vorbis thoroughly thrashes all except RealAudio at low bitrates, but then.. Nobody likes Real's player so no one will use that anytime soon. (I mean in regards to small broadcasters) Streaming stuff is where its at, like Icecast, Shoutcast etc and getting the best possible quality out of the limited bandwidth available. That's where OGG Vorbis really shines and beats the crap out of MP3, WMA etc. How long it takes to reach mainstream, I have no idea.. When perhaps the majority of hardware players support OGG Vorbis playback and stuff like Shoutcast supports Vorbis, then it will probably happen. (lets face facts, the majority of small broadcasters are ignorant of icecast and like all human beings are innately lazy, therefore they'll stick with shoutcast.. So until shoutcast and its dsp supports vorbis they'll be broadcasting in mp3 only) Mark <p>-----Original Message----- From: owner-icecast@xiph.org [mailto:owner-icecast@xiph.org] On Behalf Of Brandon Sent: 14 July 2003 21:50 To: icecast@xiph.org Subject: [icecast] OT: OGG in the mainstream <p>Just curious.... how longs do you guys think it will be before OGG is a mainstream format....meaning as widley accepted and supported as mp3, wma, ect ect? Just wondering because I just added an MP3 music store to my radio station (www.FightForRock.com), and while I do broadcast in OGG (and several other formats) I chose to sell music in MP3 formatbased on it being the best supported compressed audio format. I am toying with the idea of sellign OGG versions too. Brandon --- >8 ---- List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ icecast project homepage: http://www.icecast.org/ To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'icecast-request@xiph.org' containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered. <p><p><p>--- >8 ---- List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ icecast project homepage: http://www.icecast.org/ To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'icecast-request@xiph.org' containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered.
Just curious.... how longs do you guys think it will be before OGG is a mainstream format....meaning as widley accepted and supported as mp3, wma, ect ect? Just wondering because I just added an MP3 music store to my radio station (www.FightForRock.com), and while I do broadcast in OGG (and several other formats) I chose to sell music in MP3 formatbased on it being the best supported compressed audio format. I am toying with the idea of sellign OGG versions too. Brandon --- >8 ---- List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ icecast project homepage: http://www.icecast.org/ To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'icecast-request@xiph.org' containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered.