Speex dev - Aug 2004 - reommended settings for low bitrate voicecom codec ?

Hello,

HawkVoice doesn't have a 6.3kbps codec for CELP, it has a 4.5kbps CELP codec
and I do not believe it is being used by TeamSpeak.  The 6.4kbps CELP being
used in TeamSpeak, to which you are referring I believe comes from Lernout &
Hauspie's LHACM.ACM file which it appears you are redistributing (I assume
TeamSpeak has a license and permission to do this).  The only people I
thought had this license was Microsoft for Netmeeting 3.
>From my experience, the Speex codec is much better than the 4.5kbps CELP
codec in HawkVoice, and on par with various L&H CELP codecs.  It is tricky
to implement though, and if you don't do it right - it won't sound
correct.

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-speex-dev@xiph.org [mailto:owner-speex-dev@xiph.org] On Behalf
Of Peter Kirk
Sent: Monday, May 12, 2003 3:27 PM
To: speex-dev@xiph.org
Subject: [speex-dev] reommended settings for low bitrate voicecom codec ?

Hello,

the voice-communication TeamSpeak (www.teamspeak.org) is currently testing a

version that supports speex codecs. The quality for high bitrates is quite 
good.
BUT, the low-bandwidth speex codecs that are currently used arent very good.

<p>What I did to find this out:
I comprared a speex AVB with 6.3 KBit/sec (total, overhead for packets and 
stuff included) and the 6.3 Kbit/sec Celp Codec vom hawkvoice (
 http://www.hawksoft.com/hawkvoice) and the result is quite favorable for 
hawkvoice.
I cant believe that this is *normal* speex behavior, please correct me if
that 
hawkvoice thing just performs better on that bandwidth.

Now for my question:

Could you please tell me what options are best for what codec bandwidth ? Im

figuring something is wrong since speex sounds worse than hawkvoice on the 
low bandwidth...I would appreciate if youd post the *recommended* settings 
for 5, 10, 15 and 20 KBit narrowband AVB speex (used in a voicecom that 
shouldnt take too many cpu cylces of the game).

Please excuse my bad english and thanks in advance for helping
Peter
 -- 
Many people are unenthusiastic about their work.

--- >8 ----
List archives:  http://www.xiph.org/archives/
Ogg project homepage: http://www.xiph.org/ogg/
To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to
'speex-dev-request@xiph.org'
containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body.  No subject is
needed.
Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered.

<p>--- >8 ----
List archives:  http://www.xiph.org/archives/
Ogg project homepage: http://www.xiph.org/ogg/
To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to
'speex-dev-request@xiph.org'
containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body.  No subject is
needed.
Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered.

Hello,

the voice-communication TeamSpeak (www.teamspeak.org) is currently testing a 
version that supports speex codecs. The quality for high bitrates is quite 
good.
BUT, the low-bandwidth speex codecs that are currently used arent very good. 

What I did to find this out:
I comprared a speex AVB with 6.3 KBit/sec (total, overhead for packets and 
stuff included) and the 6.3 Kbit/sec Celp Codec vom hawkvoice (
 http://www.hawksoft.com/hawkvoice) and the result is quite favorable for 
hawkvoice.
I cant believe that this is *normal* speex behavior, please correct me if that 
hawkvoice thing just performs better on that bandwidth.

Now for my question:

Could you please tell me what options are best for what codec bandwidth ? Im 
figuring something is wrong since speex sounds worse than hawkvoice on the 
low bandwidth...I would appreciate if youd post the *recommended* settings 
for 5, 10, 15 and 20 KBit narrowband AVB speex (used in a voicecom that 
shouldnt take too many cpu cylces of the game).

Please excuse my bad english and thanks in advance for helping
Peter
 -- 
Many people are unenthusiastic about their work.

--- >8 ----
List archives:  http://www.xiph.org/archives/
Ogg project homepage: http://www.xiph.org/ogg/
To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to
'speex-dev-request@xiph.org'
containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body.  No subject is
needed.
Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered.

> What I did to find this out:
> I comprared a speex AVB with 6.3 KBit/sec (total, overhead for packets and 
> stuff included) and the 6.3 Kbit/sec Celp Codec vom hawkvoice (
>  http://www.hawksoft.com/hawkvoice) and the result is quite favorable for 
> hawkvoice.
> I cant believe that this is *normal* speex behavior, please correct me if
that
> hawkvoice thing just performs better on that bandwidth.
First, what do you mean by AVB (average bit-rate?)? Also, when you say
6.3 kbps with overhead how much of that is the Speex bandwidth (helps me
get an idea of the expected quality). 
> Could you please tell me what options are best for what codec bandwidth ?
Im
> figuring something is wrong since speex sounds worse than hawkvoice on the 
> low bandwidth...I would appreciate if youd post the *recommended* settings 
> for 5, 10, 15 and 20 KBit narrowband AVB speex (used in a voicecom that 
> shouldnt take too many cpu cylces of the game).
First, in the decoder make sure that you turn perceptual enhancement
*on* (it is off by default when using the libspeex API). To do that:
int tmp=1;
speex_decoder_ctl(decoder_state, SPEEX_SET_ENH, &tmp);

For the rest, all you need to do is decide whether you want constant
bit-rate or variable bit-rate and whether you want discontinuous
transmission (DTX). You might also want to play with the "complexity"
value, but the default is usually OK.

        Jean-Marc


-- 
Jean-Marc Valin, M.Sc.A.
LABORIUS (http://www.gel.usherb.ca/laborius)
Université de Sherbrooke, Québec, Canada

<p>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: signature.asc
Type: application/pgp-signature
Size: 190 bytes
Desc: Ceci est une partie de message numériquement signée
Url :
http://lists.xiph.org/pipermail/speex-dev/attachments/20030512/0ae7c678/signature.pgp

Am Dienstag, 13. Mai 2003 04:00 schrieb Jean-Marc Valin:
> > What I did to find this out:
> > I comprared a speex AVB with 6.3 KBit/sec (total, overhead for packets
> > and stuff included) and the 6.3 Kbit/sec Celp Codec vom hawkvoice (
> >  http://www.hawksoft.com/hawkvoice) and the result is quite favorable
for
> > hawkvoice.
> > I cant believe that this is *normal* speex behavior, please correct me
if
> > that hawkvoice thing just performs better on that bandwidth.
>
> First, what do you mean by AVB (average bit-rate?)? Also, when you say
> 6.3 kbps with overhead how much of that is the Speex bandwidth (helps me
> get an idea of the expected quality).
Ok, now you are asking internal stuff, Im only a tester that wants to do some 
*research* to take load off the developer(s). But I asked about this stuff 
and I know this:
yes, perceptual enhancement is ON.
yes, constant bitrate is being used
no, dtx is not used, as teamspeak has its own discontinuity detection and 
doesnt send voice streams at all then.

About the *real* (without overhead) bitrate speex is set to I can only guess 
for the 6.3 speex...I know for a fact that the 4.5 kbps speex codec teamspeak 
also has in the testclient is realy the lowest speex setting (2.15 kbps) - 
Doing some maths and asuming same overhead on both bandwidth settings 4.0 
kbps for the speex 6.3 codec used in teamspeak...Id love to hear some tips on 
how to improve its quality :o). If anybody experienced in this needs to try 
it out Im confident I could get you a test-client for this purpose.
> > Could you please tell me what options are best for what codec
bandwidth ?
> > Im figuring something is wrong since speex sounds worse than hawkvoice
on
> > the low bandwidth...I would appreciate if youd post the *recommended*
> > settings for 5, 10, 15 and 20 KBit narrowband AVB speex (used in a
> > voicecom that shouldnt take too many cpu cylces of the game).
>
> First, in the decoder make sure that you turn perceptual enhancement
> *on* (it is off by default when using the libspeex API). To do that:
> int tmp=1;
> speex_decoder_ctl(decoder_state, SPEEX_SET_ENH, &tmp);
>
> For the rest, all you need to do is decide whether you want constant
> bit-rate or variable bit-rate and whether you want discontinuous
> transmission (DTX). You might also want to play with the
"complexity"
> value, but the default is usually OK.
>
> 	Jean-Marc

-- 
The meek don't want it.

--- >8 ----
List archives:  http://www.xiph.org/archives/
Ogg project homepage: http://www.xiph.org/ogg/
To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to
'speex-dev-request@xiph.org'
containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body.  No subject is
needed.
Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered.

hi speexies,

i work at an application in which i read from /audio/dsp, encode it 
using speex and send it away. can anybody give me a hint or a piece of 
code which explains how realtime (or with low latency) audio input works 
on linux to get good results in combination with speex.

thanks in advance, adolf

--- >8 ----
List archives:  http://www.xiph.org/archives/
Ogg project homepage: http://www.xiph.org/ogg/
To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to
'speex-dev-request@xiph.org'
containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body.  No subject is
needed.
Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered.

Am Dienstag, 13. Mai 2003 03:22 schrieb Allen Drennan:
> Hello,
>
> HawkVoice doesn't have a 6.3kbps codec for CELP, it has a 4.5kbps CELP
> codec and I do not believe it is being used by TeamSpeak.  The 6.4kbps CELP
> being used in TeamSpeak, to which you are referring I believe comes from
> Lernout & Hauspie's LHACM.ACM file which it appears you are
redistributing
> (I assume TeamSpeak has a license and permission to do this).  The only
> people I thought had this license was Microsoft for Netmeeting 3.
Well,

im very sure teamspeak only uses hawkvoice codecs currently. It might very 
well be that the 4.5 kbps Cepl from HawkVoice comes to be 6.3 with the 
overhead...
>
> From my experience, the Speex codec is much better than the 4.5kbps CELP
> codec in HawkVoice, and on par with various L&H CELP codecs.  It is
tricky
> to implement though, and if you don't do it right - it won't sound
correct.
So, then (as teamspeak currently doesnt use L&H) speex should sound better
not
worse ? What might there be wrong ? 
> --- >8 ----
> List archives:  http://www.xiph.org/archives/
> Ogg project homepage: http://www.xiph.org/ogg/
> To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to
> 'speex-dev-request@xiph.org' containing only the word
'unsubscribe' in the
> body.  No subject is needed. Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be
> ignored/filtered.

-- 
Shick's Law:
	There is no problem a good miracle can't solve.

--- >8 ----
List archives:  http://www.xiph.org/archives/
Ogg project homepage: http://www.xiph.org/ogg/
To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to
'speex-dev-request@xiph.org'
containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body.  No subject is
needed.
Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered.