Stefan Kanthak via llvm-dev
2020-Aug-20 18:45 UTC
[llvm-dev] Clang is a resource hog, the installers for Windows miss quite some files, and are defect!
Hi @ll, BUGS #1 & #2: ~~~~~~~~~~~~~ The installer LLVM-10.0.0-win64.exe dumps the following DUPLICATE files in "C:\Program Files\LLVM\bin", WASTING about 500MB disk space, which is nearly a third of the disk space occupied by the whole package: | DIR "C:\Program Files\LLVM\bin" /O:-S ... | 25.03.2020 12:15 83.258.880 clang-cl.exe | 25.03.2020 12:03 83.258.880 clang.exe | 25.03.2020 12:15 83.258.880 clang++.exe | 25.03.2020 12:15 83.258.880 clang-cpp.exe ... | 25.03.2020 12:15 57.812.480 lld-link.exe | 25.03.2020 12:05 57.812.480 lld.exe | 25.03.2020 12:15 57.812.480 ld.lld.exe | 25.03.2020 12:15 57.812.480 ld64.lld.exe | 25.03.2020 12:15 57.812.480 wasm-ld.exe ... | 25.03.2020 12:15 18.182.144 llvm-ranlib.exe | 25.03.2020 12:15 18.182.144 llvm-lib.exe | 25.03.2020 12:00 18.182.144 llvm-ar.exe | | FC.exe "C:\Program Files\LLVM\bin\clang.exe" "C:\Program Files\LLVM\bin\clang-cl.exe" | Vergleichen der Dateien C:\PROGRAM FILES\LLVM\BIN\clang.exe und C:\PROGRAM FILES \LLVM\BIN\CLANG-CL.EXE | FC: Keine Unterschiede gefunden | | FSUTIL.exe Hardlink List "C:\Program Files\LLVM\bin\clang.exe" | \Program Files\LLVM\bin\clang.exe ... Dito for LLVM-10.0.0-win32.exe: | DIR "C:\Program Files (x86)\LLVM\bin" /O:-S ... | 25.03.2020 11:21 77.862.912 clang-cpp.exe | 25.03.2020 11:21 77.862.912 clang-cl.exe | 25.03.2020 11:21 77.862.912 clang++.exe | 25.03.2020 11:13 77.862.912 clang.exe ... | 25.03.2020 11:22 54.811.648 ld.lld.exe | 25.03.2020 11:22 54.811.648 ld64.lld.exe | 25.03.2020 11:15 54.811.648 lld.exe | 25.03.2020 11:22 54.811.648 lld-link.exe | 25.03.2020 11:22 54.811.648 wasm-ld.exe ... | 25.03.2020 11:21 17.346.560 llvm-ranlib.exe | 25.03.2020 11:10 17.346.560 llvm-ar.exe | 25.03.2020 11:21 17.346.560 llvm-lib.exe Ever heard of hardlinks? NTFS supports them since its introduction nearly 30 years ago, and Windows NT provides an API to create them since 24 years. BUGS #3 & #4: ~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Although the compiler/linker/... installed with both packages are able to produce 32-bit as well as 64-bit executables, 32-bit executables can't be linked with the 64-bit package, and vice versa: each package contains only the clang_rt.*.lib for its own architecture. The libraries for 32-bit targets are missing in LLVM-10.0.0-win64.exe, and vice versa. | DIR "C:\Program Files\LLVM\lib\clang\10.0.0\lib\windows\*-i386.lib" ... | Datei nicht gefunden ... | DIR "C:\Program Files (x86)\LLVM\lib\clang\10.0.0\lib\windows\*-x86_64.lib" ... | Datei nicht gefunden BUG #5: ~~~~~~~ Poor souls who want to install the 64-bit package after/aside the 32-bit package (or vice versa) are greeted with the following BOGUS message from the installers: ______________________________________________________ | Installation von LLVM |¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯ | ^ | /!\ LLVM is already installed. | ¯¯¯ | Do you want to install the old version before | installing the new one? | | [ Ja ] [ Nein ] [ Abbrechen ] | ¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯ Also note the denglish kauderwelsch: the title bar and the buttons are localized, but the message text isn't. NOT AMUSED Stefan Kanthak
David Blaikie via llvm-dev
2020-Aug-20 22:24 UTC
[llvm-dev] Clang is a resource hog, the installers for Windows miss quite some files, and are defect!
Please ease up on the all-caps/shouting and sarcasm. It's not suitable in this forum. Yes, people on the project have likely heard of hard links. Perhaps there are practical reasons they're not suitable here, or someone hasn't had the time, etc - perhaps you could contribute patches/support for this? As for the x86/x64 - while clang itself is a cross compiler, yeah, I'm not sure any of the distributions include multiple target runtime support (though, yeah, being able to install them side-by-side, either as modules to the same installation, or at least both full installations separately) On Thu, Aug 20, 2020 at 11:49 AM Stefan Kanthak via llvm-dev <llvm-dev at lists.llvm.org> wrote:> > Hi @ll, > > BUGS #1 & #2: > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > The installer LLVM-10.0.0-win64.exe dumps the following DUPLICATE files > in "C:\Program Files\LLVM\bin", WASTING about 500MB disk space, which is > nearly a third of the disk space occupied by the whole package: > > | DIR "C:\Program Files\LLVM\bin" /O:-S > ... > | 25.03.2020 12:15 83.258.880 clang-cl.exe > | 25.03.2020 12:03 83.258.880 clang.exe > | 25.03.2020 12:15 83.258.880 clang++.exe > | 25.03.2020 12:15 83.258.880 clang-cpp.exe > ... > | 25.03.2020 12:15 57.812.480 lld-link.exe > | 25.03.2020 12:05 57.812.480 lld.exe > | 25.03.2020 12:15 57.812.480 ld.lld.exe > | 25.03.2020 12:15 57.812.480 ld64.lld.exe > | 25.03.2020 12:15 57.812.480 wasm-ld.exe > ... > | 25.03.2020 12:15 18.182.144 llvm-ranlib.exe > | 25.03.2020 12:15 18.182.144 llvm-lib.exe > | 25.03.2020 12:00 18.182.144 llvm-ar.exe > | > | FC.exe "C:\Program Files\LLVM\bin\clang.exe" "C:\Program Files\LLVM\bin\clang-cl.exe" > | Vergleichen der Dateien C:\PROGRAM FILES\LLVM\BIN\clang.exe und C:\PROGRAM FILES > \LLVM\BIN\CLANG-CL.EXE > | FC: Keine Unterschiede gefunden > | > | FSUTIL.exe Hardlink List "C:\Program Files\LLVM\bin\clang.exe" > | \Program Files\LLVM\bin\clang.exe > ... > > > Dito for LLVM-10.0.0-win32.exe: > > | DIR "C:\Program Files (x86)\LLVM\bin" /O:-S > ... > | 25.03.2020 11:21 77.862.912 clang-cpp.exe > | 25.03.2020 11:21 77.862.912 clang-cl.exe > | 25.03.2020 11:21 77.862.912 clang++.exe > | 25.03.2020 11:13 77.862.912 clang.exe > ... > | 25.03.2020 11:22 54.811.648 ld.lld.exe > | 25.03.2020 11:22 54.811.648 ld64.lld.exe > | 25.03.2020 11:15 54.811.648 lld.exe > | 25.03.2020 11:22 54.811.648 lld-link.exe > | 25.03.2020 11:22 54.811.648 wasm-ld.exe > ... > | 25.03.2020 11:21 17.346.560 llvm-ranlib.exe > | 25.03.2020 11:10 17.346.560 llvm-ar.exe > | 25.03.2020 11:21 17.346.560 llvm-lib.exe > > Ever heard of hardlinks? > NTFS supports them since its introduction nearly 30 years ago, and > Windows NT provides an API to create them since 24 years. > > > BUGS #3 & #4: > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > Although the compiler/linker/... installed with both packages are able > to produce 32-bit as well as 64-bit executables, 32-bit executables > can't be linked with the 64-bit package, and vice versa: each package > contains only the clang_rt.*.lib for its own architecture. > > The libraries for 32-bit targets are missing in LLVM-10.0.0-win64.exe, > and vice versa. > > | DIR "C:\Program Files\LLVM\lib\clang\10.0.0\lib\windows\*-i386.lib" > ... > | Datei nicht gefunden > ... > | DIR "C:\Program Files (x86)\LLVM\lib\clang\10.0.0\lib\windows\*-x86_64.lib" > ... > | Datei nicht gefunden > > > BUG #5: > ~~~~~~~ > > Poor souls who want to install the 64-bit package after/aside the > 32-bit package (or vice versa) are greeted with the following BOGUS > message from the installers: > ______________________________________________________ > | Installation von LLVM > |¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯ > | ^ > | /!\ LLVM is already installed. > | ¯¯¯ > | Do you want to install the old version before > | installing the new one? > | > | [ Ja ] [ Nein ] [ Abbrechen ] > | > ¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯ > Also note the denglish kauderwelsch: the title bar and the buttons > are localized, but the message text isn't. > > > NOT AMUSED > Stefan Kanthak > > _______________________________________________ > LLVM Developers mailing list > llvm-dev at lists.llvm.org > https://lists.llvm.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/llvm-dev
Stefan Kanthak via llvm-dev
2020-Aug-20 23:11 UTC
[llvm-dev] Clang is a resource hog, the installers for Windows miss quite some files, and are defect!
"David Blaikie" <dblaikie at gmail.com> wrote:> Please ease up on the all-caps/shouting and sarcasm.I'm easy: the LLVM project writes LLVM in caps, Windows' FC.exe prints the filenames C:\PROGRAM FILES\LLVM\BIN\clang.exe and C:\PROGRAM FILES\LLVM\BIN\CLANG-CL.EXE in caps, ...> It's not suitable in this forum.I don't wear a suit, and this is a mailing llist! If you are but not interested in bug reports.> Yes, people on the project have likely heard of hard links. Perhaps > there are practical reasons they're not suitable here, or someone > hasn't had the time, etc - perhaps you could contribute > patches/support for this?I don't use LLVM. And I especially don't use vulnerable crap like executable installers.> As for the x86/x64 - while clang itself is a cross compiler, yeah, I'm > not sure any of the distributions include multiple target runtime > support (though, yeah, being able to install them side-by-side, either > as modules to the same installation, or at least both full > installations separately)BUG #6: ~~~~~~ The second installation overwrites the start menu shortcuts and registry information of the first installation. BUG #7: ~~~~~~ A side-by-side installation of LLVM-10.0.0-win32.exe and LLVM-10.0.0-win64.exe wastes another 1.5GB instead of just some 28 MB for the libraries clang_rt.*-{i386,x86_64}.lib That's a very lovely and tiny factor of 50 (in words: FIFTY). still not amused Stefan On Thu, Aug 20, 2020 at 11:49 AM Stefan Kanthak via llvm-dev <llvm-dev at lists.llvm.org> wrote:> > Hi @ll, > > BUGS #1 & #2: > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > The installer LLVM-10.0.0-win64.exe dumps the following DUPLICATE files > in "C:\Program Files\LLVM\bin", WASTING about 500MB disk space, which is > nearly a third of the disk space occupied by the whole package: > > | DIR "C:\Program Files\LLVM\bin" /O:-S > ... > | 25.03.2020 12:15 83.258.880 clang-cl.exe > | 25.03.2020 12:03 83.258.880 clang.exe > | 25.03.2020 12:15 83.258.880 clang++.exe > | 25.03.2020 12:15 83.258.880 clang-cpp.exe > ... > | 25.03.2020 12:15 57.812.480 lld-link.exe > | 25.03.2020 12:05 57.812.480 lld.exe > | 25.03.2020 12:15 57.812.480 ld.lld.exe > | 25.03.2020 12:15 57.812.480 ld64.lld.exe > | 25.03.2020 12:15 57.812.480 wasm-ld.exe > ... > | 25.03.2020 12:15 18.182.144 llvm-ranlib.exe > | 25.03.2020 12:15 18.182.144 llvm-lib.exe > | 25.03.2020 12:00 18.182.144 llvm-ar.exe > | > | FC.exe "C:\Program Files\LLVM\bin\clang.exe" "C:\Program Files\LLVM\bin\clang-cl.exe" > | Vergleichen der Dateien C:\PROGRAM FILES\LLVM\BIN\clang.exe und C:\PROGRAM FILES > \LLVM\BIN\CLANG-CL.EXE > | FC: Keine Unterschiede gefunden > | > | FSUTIL.exe Hardlink List "C:\Program Files\LLVM\bin\clang.exe" > | \Program Files\LLVM\bin\clang.exe > ... > > > Dito for LLVM-10.0.0-win32.exe: > > | DIR "C:\Program Files (x86)\LLVM\bin" /O:-S > ... > | 25.03.2020 11:21 77.862.912 clang-cpp.exe > | 25.03.2020 11:21 77.862.912 clang-cl.exe > | 25.03.2020 11:21 77.862.912 clang++.exe > | 25.03.2020 11:13 77.862.912 clang.exe > ... > | 25.03.2020 11:22 54.811.648 ld.lld.exe > | 25.03.2020 11:22 54.811.648 ld64.lld.exe > | 25.03.2020 11:15 54.811.648 lld.exe > | 25.03.2020 11:22 54.811.648 lld-link.exe > | 25.03.2020 11:22 54.811.648 wasm-ld.exe > ... > | 25.03.2020 11:21 17.346.560 llvm-ranlib.exe > | 25.03.2020 11:10 17.346.560 llvm-ar.exe > | 25.03.2020 11:21 17.346.560 llvm-lib.exe > > Ever heard of hardlinks? > NTFS supports them since its introduction nearly 30 years ago, and > Windows NT provides an API to create them since 24 years. > > > BUGS #3 & #4: > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > Although the compiler/linker/... installed with both packages are able > to produce 32-bit as well as 64-bit executables, 32-bit executables > can't be linked with the 64-bit package, and vice versa: each package > contains only the clang_rt.*.lib for its own architecture. > > The libraries for 32-bit targets are missing in LLVM-10.0.0-win64.exe, > and vice versa. > > | DIR "C:\Program Files\LLVM\lib\clang\10.0.0\lib\windows\*-i386.lib" > ... > | Datei nicht gefunden > ... > | DIR "C:\Program Files (x86)\LLVM\lib\clang\10.0.0\lib\windows\*-x86_64.lib" > ... > | Datei nicht gefunden > > > BUG #5: > ~~~~~~~ > > Poor souls who want to install the 64-bit package after/aside the > 32-bit package (or vice versa) are greeted with the following BOGUS > message from the installers: > ______________________________________________________ > | Installation von LLVM > |¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯ > | ^ > | /!\ LLVM is already installed. > | ¯¯¯ > | Do you want to install the old version before > | installing the new one? > | > | [ Ja ] [ Nein ] [ Abbrechen ] > | > ¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯ > Also note the denglish kauderwelsch: the title bar and the buttons > are localized, but the message text isn't. > > > NOT AMUSED > Stefan Kanthak > > _______________________________________________ > LLVM Developers mailing list > llvm-dev at lists.llvm.org > https://lists.llvm.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/llvm-dev
Michael Kruse via llvm-dev
2020-Aug-21 03:49 UTC
[llvm-dev] Clang is a resource hog, the installers for Windows miss quite some files, and are defect!
I think David is not referring to the capitalization of file names, but to "DUPLICATE", "WASTING", "NOT AMUSED", "BOGUS" etc. It should be possible to report problems in a professional manner. Please remember that the project is made available by volunteers for free. We also have a dedicated bug tracker: bugs.llvm.org. Am Do., 20. Aug. 2020 um 13:49 Uhr schrieb Stefan Kanthak via llvm-dev < llvm-dev at lists.llvm.org>:> BUGS #1 & #2: > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >On UNIX systems, these are symlinks. There are multiple potential equivalents to symlinks on Windows systems, the one matching UNIX systems the closest is relatively new and requires either Administrator rights or developer mode turned on.Typically tools ported from a UNIX environment to Windows just copy the file instead symlinking to avoid dealing with issues such as when the installing on a non-NTFS file system (FAT, network drive, etc), so does LLVM ( https://github.com/llvm/llvm-project/blob/master/llvm/cmake/modules/LLVMInstallSymlink.cmake ). Since mass storage is cheap, there isn't a lot of motivation to save to invest time to save some space. However, you are free to invest that time yourself and submit patches.> BUG #5: > ~~~~~~~ > > Poor souls who want to install the 64-bit package after/aside the > 32-bit package (or vice versa) are greeted with the following BOGUS > message from the installers: > ______________________________________________________ > | Installation von LLVM > |¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯ > | ^ > | /!\ LLVM is already installed. > | ¯¯¯ > | Do you want to install the old version before > | installing the new one? > | > | [ Ja ] [ Nein ] [ Abbrechen ] > | > ¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯ > Also note the denglish kauderwelsch: the title bar and the buttons > are localized, but the message text isn't. > >The button labels and message box title are provided by the Operating System / Nullsoft Install System. LLVM itself does not do any localization itself. I'd be more concerned that if offers to "install the old version" (rather than uninstall it). My guess this warning is a functionality provided by the Nullsoft Install System that assumes that software only needs to be installed once on the system. I wouldn't call it bogus, you may indeed not want to keep an older version installed at the same time. Michael -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.llvm.org/pipermail/llvm-dev/attachments/20200820/dc9f4b83/attachment.html>
Stefan Kanthak via llvm-dev
2020-Aug-21 12:23 UTC
[llvm-dev] Clang is a resource hog, the installers for Windows miss quite some files, and are defect!
"Michael Kruse" <llvmdev at meinersbur.de> wrote:> I think David is not referring to the capitalization of file names, but to > "DUPLICATE", "WASTING", "NOT AMUSED", "BOGUS" etc.I EMPHASIZE in the only way possible with plain text.> It should be possible to report problems in a professional manner.It should also be possible to handle problem reports in a professional manner!> Please remember that the project is made available by volunteers > for free. We also have a dedicated bug tracker: bugs.llvm.org.You are free to enter the bugs I pointed out there. I don't use LLVM, so don't expect me to jump throught loops to report obvious bugs.> Am Do., 20. Aug. 2020 um 13:49 Uhr schrieb Stefan Kanthak via llvm-dev <llvm-dev at lists.llvm.org>: > >> BUGS #1 & #2: >> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >> > > On UNIX systems, these are symlinks.UNIX and Windows are quite different.> There are multiple potential equivalents to symlinks on Windows systems, > the one matching UNIX systems the closest is relatively new and requires > either Administrator rights or developer mode turned on.Hardlinks don't. And they are available on both systems.> Typically tools ported from a UNIX environment to Windows just copy the > file instead symlinking to avoid dealing with issues such as when the > installing on a non-NTFS file system (FAT, network drive, etc),Do you really want to tell that the installer LLVM uses on Windows was ported from UNIX? REALITY CHECK, please! The default installation goes into %ProgramFiles%\LLVM, which is located on NTFS.> so does LLVM (https://github.com/llvm/llvm-project/blob/master/llvm/cmake/modules/LLVMInstallSymlink.cmake ).> Since mass storage is cheap, there isn't a lot of motivation to save to > invest time to save some space. However, you are free to invest that time > yourself and submit patches.I'm even free not to use LLVM at all, but nevertheless see and report its bugs and deficiencies here: be professional and fix them>> BUG #5: >> ~~~~~~~ >> >> Poor souls who want to install the 64-bit package after/aside the >> 32-bit package (or vice versa) are greeted with the following BOGUS >> message from the installers: >> ______________________________________________________ >> | Installation von LLVM >> |¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯ >> | ^ >> | /!\ LLVM is already installed. >> | ¯¯¯ >> | Do you want to install the old version before >> | installing the new one? >> | >> | [ Ja ] [ Nein ] [ Abbrechen ] >> | >> ¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯ >> Also note the denglish kauderwelsch: the title bar and the buttons >> are localized, but the message text isn't. >> >> > The button labels and message box title are provided by the Operating > System / Nullsoft Install System.To use this obviously defective "install system" is then a rather poor choice.> LLVM itself does not do any localization itself. > I'd be more concerned that if offers to "install the old version" > (rather than uninstall it).This seems to be a typo. I'd rather be concerned about the OLD version here, which might be ANY other version, older, newer, or the same, but just for the other processor architecture of the target OS! Do you consider such misleading messages appropriate for a product developed by professionals?> My guess this warning is a functionality provided by the Nullsoft Install > System that assumes that software only needs to be installed once on the > system. I wouldn't call it bogus, you may indeed not want to keep an older > version installed at the same time.Most obviously this "install system" was the wrong choice for LLVM. BUG #8: ~~~~~~~ The defective installer creates a shortcut "Uninstall LLVM" in the start menu, violating the MINIMUM requirements of the now 25 year old "Designed for Windows guidelines". JFTR: Windows ships with two builtin installers (SetupAPI and Windows Installer), there's no need to use a defective 3rd party product at all. Stefan
Joerg Sonnenberger via llvm-dev
2020-Aug-23 16:36 UTC
[llvm-dev] Clang is a resource hog, the installers for Windows miss quite some files, and are defect!
On Thu, Aug 20, 2020 at 08:45:33PM +0200, Stefan Kanthak via llvm-dev wrote:> Ever heard of hardlinks?Ever heard of voluntary projects? The Windows installer is provided best-effort by some people to reduce the barrier of entrace for Windows users. It is certainly not paid work. Your patronizing tone is not going to make anyone work on improving things. You don't provide any fixes either. At best, your mails are going to get ignored by those interested in the installer, if don't just come to taking the conclusion that the effort is not appreciated and going to remove them in first place. I would really suggest you to take a class on how to provide positive feedback. Otherwise, I would kindly request that you just leave behind this community and don't come back. The interactions with your mails have so far been far more harmful than any value they provided. Please don't bother with a reply. Not amused, Joerg
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