llvm dev - Oct 2015 - RFC: Introducing an LLVM Community Code of Conduct

> Also, the problem with enumerating all the inacceptable behaviour is
> that the text tends to become TL;DR. Which means permanent discomfort: I
> never fully read the rules, so I'm never fully sure that I'm not
> violating the CoC, nor am I sure whether others violate it.
> 
> In terms of size and complexity, the proposed CoC is shorter than the
> typical bulletin board CoC, so it's not bad; however, it think it could
> be made more compact.
Compactness is a definite virtue. I remember attending a very successful
series of science-fiction conventions years ago, where the only formally 
stated conduct policy was "You kill it, you eat it."  More extensive
elaboration was deemed to be too prone to over-interpretation by people
trying to get away with stuff, without actually providing useful guidance.

As a year-round 95% online community, rather than a weekend convention
with dozens of physically present staff, LLVM probably does need something
a bit more detailed, but if the basic statement can't be reduced to a 
screenful or so then it's too much.
--paulr

The "No Code of Conduct" ( https://github.com/domgetter/NCoC ) version
of this is "This project adheres to No Code of Conduct. We are all adults.
We accept everyone's contributions. Nothing else matters."

I'm not advocating something like this, but I tend to agree with the
sentiment that Django-style codes of conduct over-define and
over-"legalize".

The FreeBSD CoC is, IMHO, much better in this respect (
https://www.freebsd.org/internal/code-of-conduct.html ).

Michael


-----Original Message-----
From: llvm-dev [mailto:llvm-dev-bounces at lists.llvm.org] On Behalf Of
Robinson, Paul via llvm-dev
Sent: Tuesday, October 13, 2015 18:43
To: llvm-dev at lists.llvm.org
Subject: Re: [llvm-dev] RFC: Introducing an LLVM Community Code of Conduct
> Also, the problem with enumerating all the inacceptable behaviour is 
> that the text tends to become TL;DR. Which means permanent discomfort: 
> I never fully read the rules, so I'm never fully sure that I'm not 
> violating the CoC, nor am I sure whether others violate it.
> 
> In terms of size and complexity, the proposed CoC is shorter than the 
> typical bulletin board CoC, so it's not bad; however, it think it 
> could be made more compact.
Compactness is a definite virtue. I remember attending a very successful series
of science-fiction conventions years ago, where the only formally stated conduct
policy was "You kill it, you eat it."  More extensive elaboration was
deemed to be too prone to over-interpretation by people trying to get away with
stuff, without actually providing useful guidance.

As a year-round 95% online community, rather than a weekend convention with
dozens of physically present staff, LLVM probably does need something a bit more
detailed, but if the basic statement can't be reduced to a screenful or so
then it's too much.
--paulr

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On 13 October 2015 at 17:16, Kuperstein, Michael M via llvm-dev
<llvm-dev at lists.llvm.org> wrote:
> The FreeBSD CoC is, IMHO, much better in this respect (
https://www.freebsd.org/internal/code-of-conduct.html ).
Nice! This is so succinct and beautiful!

It doesn't need an overseeing foundation to take opaque decisions, and
focus on what's really important: the code.

I particularly like "Do not make it personal. Do not take it
personally.". It means *so* much in such a short sentence.

cheers,
--renato

PS: note, no bias on the discrimination list. Though, they still use
"race"... no one's perfect. :)

I like the NCoC approach, actually.  I think the community can manage 
itself quite well.  Echoing a prior response---if this community really 
needs a set of rules, then it has already deteriorated.  We are not 
there and it doesn't look like we are going in that direction.

The FreeBSD CoC also looks reasonable, and if any CoC is needed, I find 
this one more appealing.

-Krzysztof


On 10/13/2015 11:16 AM, Kuperstein, Michael M via llvm-dev
wrote:
> The "No Code of Conduct" ( https://github.com/domgetter/NCoC )
version of this is "This project adheres to No Code of Conduct. We are all
adults. We accept everyone's contributions. Nothing else matters."
>
> I'm not advocating something like this, but I tend to agree with the
sentiment that Django-style codes of conduct over-define and
over-"legalize".
>
> The FreeBSD CoC is, IMHO, much better in this respect (
https://www.freebsd.org/internal/code-of-conduct.html ).
>
> Michael
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: llvm-dev [mailto:llvm-dev-bounces at lists.llvm.org] On Behalf Of
Robinson, Paul via llvm-dev
> Sent: Tuesday, October 13, 2015 18:43
> To: llvm-dev at lists.llvm.org
> Subject: Re: [llvm-dev] RFC: Introducing an LLVM Community Code of Conduct
>
>> Also, the problem with enumerating all the inacceptable behaviour is
>> that the text tends to become TL;DR. Which means permanent discomfort:
>> I never fully read the rules, so I'm never fully sure that I'm
not
>> violating the CoC, nor am I sure whether others violate it.
>>
>> In terms of size and complexity, the proposed CoC is shorter than the
>> typical bulletin board CoC, so it's not bad; however, it think it
>> could be made more compact.
>
> Compactness is a definite virtue. I remember attending a very successful
series of science-fiction conventions years ago, where the only formally stated
conduct policy was "You kill it, you eat it."  More extensive
elaboration was deemed to be too prone to over-interpretation by people trying
to get away with stuff, without actually providing useful guidance.
>
> As a year-round 95% online community, rather than a weekend convention with
dozens of physically present staff, LLVM probably does need something a bit more
detailed, but if the basic statement can't be reduced to a screenful or so
then it's too much.
> --paulr
>
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