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-----Original Message-----
From: centos-request at centos.org
Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2008 12:00:07
To:centos at centos.org
Subject: CentOS Digest, Vol 38, Issue 15
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Today's Topics:
1. RE: Re: Recommendations for a ?real RAID" 1 card on Centos
box (Therese Trudeau)
2. RE: Recommendations for a ?real RAID" 1 card on Centos box
(Therese Trudeau)
3. RE: Recommendations for a ?real RAID" 1 card on Centos box
(Therese Trudeau)
4. Re: Recommendations for a ?real RAID" 1 card on Centos box
(Toby Bluhm)
5. Re: Recommendations for a ?real RAID" 1 card on Centos box
(John Plemons)
6. Re: Recommendations for a ?real RAID" 1 card on Centos box
(Ross S. W. Walker)
7. RE: Recommendations for a ?real RAID" 1 card on Centos box
(Therese Trudeau)
8. Re: Recommendations for a ?real RAID" 1 card on Centos box
(Toby Bluhm)
9. Re: Recommendations for a ?real RAID" 1 card on Centos box
(Ross S. W. Walker)
10. Re: Recommendations for a ?real RAID" 1 card on Centos box
(Tom Brown)
11. RE: Recommendations for a ?real RAID" 1 card on Centos box
(Therese Trudeau)
12. RE: Recommendations for a ?real RAID" 1 card on Centos box
(Therese Trudeau)
13. RE: Recommendations for a ?real RAID" 1 card on Centos box
(Therese Trudeau)
14. RE: Recommendations for a ?real RAID" 1 card on Centos box
(Therese Trudeau)
15. Re: Recommendations for a ?real RAID" 1 card on Centos box
(Tom Brown)
16. RE: Recommendations for a "real RAID" 1 card on Centos box
(Ross S. W. Walker)
17. RE: Recommendations for a "real RAID" 1 card on Centos box
(Therese Trudeau)
18. RE: Recommendations for a ?real RAID" 1 card on Centos box
(Therese Trudeau)
19. RE: Recommendations for a "real RAID" 1 card on Centos box
(Ross S. W. Walker)
20. RE: Recommendations for a ?real RAID" 1 card on Centos box
(Therese Trudeau)
21. Re: Recommendations for a ?real RAID" 1 card on Centos box
(Toby Bluhm)
22. RE: Recommendations for a "real RAID" 1 card on Centos box
(Ross S. W. Walker)
23. RE: Recommendations for a "real RAID" 1 card on Centos box
(Ross S. W. Walker)
24. Re: Recommendations for a ?real RAID" 1 card on Centos box
(Toby Bluhm)
25. Re: evince on centos5.1 (Peter Farrell)
26. RE: Recommendations for a "real RAID" 1 card on Centos box
(Therese Trudeau)
27. Re: MySQL 4.1 on Centos 5 ? (Peter Farrell)
28. RE: Recommendations for a ?real RAID" 1 card on Centos box
(Therese Trudeau)
29. Re: Recommendations for a ?real RAID" 1 card on Centos box
(Les Mikesell)
30. Re: MySQL 4.1 on Centos 5 ? (Niki Kovacs)
31. Re: Recommendations for a ?real RAID" 1 card on Centos box
(Toby Bluhm)
32. Re: Recommendations for a ?real RAID" 1 card on Centos box
(John R Pierce)
33. Re: Recommendations for a "real RAID" 1 card on Centos box
(Les Mikesell)
34. Re: MySQL 4.1 on Centos 5 ? (Fajar Priyanto)
35. Re: evince on centos5.1 (Anne Wilson)
36. RE: Recommendations for a "real RAID" 1 card on Centos box
(Therese Trudeau)
37. RE: Recommendations for a ?real RAID" 1 card on Centos box
(Therese Trudeau)
38. Re: Recommendations for a ?ard on Centos box (Scott Silva)
39. RE: Recommendations for a ?real RAID" 1 card on Centos box
(Therese Trudeau)
40. RE: Recommendations for a "real RAID" 1 card on Centos box
(Therese Trudeau)
41. Re: Recommendations for a ?card on Centos box (Scott Silva)
42. Re: MySQL 4.1 on Centos 5 ? (Niki Kovacs)
43. Re: Recommendations for a ?ard on Centos box (Scott Silva)
44. RE: Recommendations for a ?real RAID" 1 card on Centos box
(Therese Trudeau)
45. Open extra ports on firewall? (Niki Kovacs)
46. Re: Recommendations for a "real RAID" 1 card on Centos box
(Les Mikesell)
47. Re: Recommendations for a "real RAID" 1 card on Centos box
(Scott Silva)
48. Re: Open extra ports on firewall? (Alan Bartlett)
49. RE: Re: Recommendations for a ?card on Centos box
(Therese Trudeau)
50. RE: Re: Recommendations for a ?ard on Centos box (Therese Trudeau)
51. Re: Open extra ports on firewall? (Alex White)
52. RE: Recommendations for a "real RAID" 1 card on Centos box
(Ross S. W. Walker)
53. RE: Recommendations for a "real RAID" 1 card on Centos box
(Therese Trudeau)
54. Re: Open extra ports on firewall? (Niki Kovacs)
55. Re: Re: Recommendations for a ?card on Centos box (Les Mikesell)
56. Re: Re: 10Gbit ethernet (Chris Payne)
57. Re: Recommendations for a "real RAID" 1 card on Centos box
(Les Mikesell)
58. RE: Recommendations for a "real RAID" 1 card on Centos box
(Ross S. W. Walker)
59. Forward local5.* to remote syslog-ng server (Sean Carolan)
60. RE: Recommendations for a "real RAID" 1 card on Centos box
(Dennis McLeod)
61. Re: Re: Recommendations for a "real RAID" 1 card on Centos
box (Les Mikesell)
62. RE: Re: Recommendations for a ?card on Centos box (Dennis McLeod)
63. RE: Recommendations for a "real RAID" 1 card on Centos box
(Therese Trudeau)
64. Re: Forward local5.* to remote syslog-ng server (Sean Carolan)
65. Re: Recommendations for a ?card on Centos box (Scott Silva)
66. Re: Recommendations for a "real RAID" 1 card on Centos box
(Les Mikesell)
67. RE: Recommendations for a "real RAID" 1 card on Centos box
(Ross S. W. Walker)
68. RE: Recommendations for a "real RAID" 1 card on Centos box
(Therese Trudeau)
69. RE: Recommendations for a "real RAID" 1 card on Centos box
(Therese Trudeau)
70. RE: Recommendations for a "real RAID" 1 card on Centos box
(Ross S. W. Walker)
71. Re: Recommendations for a "real RAID" 1 card on Centos box
(Les Mikesell)
72. Re: Recommendations for a ?real RAID" 1 card on Centos box
(Les Mikesell)
73. Re: ext3 errors (md device related?) (Les Mikesell)
74. Thunderbird: can't seem to install french spell checker
(Niki Kovacs)
75. MSG for Barry (Christopher E)
76. Re: Gnome desktop, workspaces and windows (James B. Byrne)
77. RE: ext3 errors (md device related?) (Ross S. W. Walker)
78. Re: Open extra ports on firewall? (Robert Spangler)
79. Re: php 4/5 dependency question (Rogelio)
80. Re: ext3 errors (md device related?) (Nicolas KOWALSKI)
81. Re: ext3 errors (md device related?) (Les Mikesell)
82. Re: Good version control package? (Amos Shapira)
83. Re: evince on centos5.1 (MHR)
84. Re: ext3 errors (md device related?) (Les Mikesell)
85. Re: Overland Arcvault 12 and sequential/random settings
(Scott R. Ehrlich)
86. Re: Migrate Outlook Express mail to Thunderbird? (mouss)
87. Re: Migrate Outlook Express mail to Thunderbird? (Bill Campbell)
88. Re: Forward local5.* to remote syslog-ng server (Sean Carolan)
89. Incremental backups? (Scott R. Ehrlich)
90. Re: Incremental backups? (Fajar Priyanto)
91. Re: Incremental backups? (Les Mikesell)
92. Re: Open extra ports on firewall? (Niki Kovacs)
93. Re: Incremental backups? (Mogens Kjaer)
94. Firefox 3 (Niki Kovacs)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 08:37:34 -0400
From: Therese Trudeau <mswotr at hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: [CentOS] Re: Recommendations for a ?real RAID" 1 card on
Centos box
To: CentOS mailing list <centos at centos.org>
Message-ID: <BAY114-W22EE454074ED065BC675CBCF0A0 at phx.gbl>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252"
> Adaptec makes both true HW raid and re-sells fakeraid cards. I guess they
> wanted a piece of both pies. But 3ware only makes HW raid cards AFAIK.
How well do you think the adaptecSATA raid cards stack up against the Areca
and 3ware RAID cards? I'm going to buy two raid cards over the weekend.
_________________________________________________________________
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------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 08:55:43 -0400
From: Therese Trudeau <mswotr at hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: [CentOS] Recommendations for a ?real RAID" 1 card on
Centos box
To: CentOS mailing list <centos at centos.org>
Message-ID: <BAY114-W12EDA65146D8C94471CADCCF0A0 at phx.gbl>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252"
>> You can turn on write back caching if you have a UPS as well
>> (provided your UPS is wired into your system for a graceful shutdown)
>
> Hopefully you have a redundant PS unit. Having a UPS is not going to
> help if your PS fails.
That's a very good point never thought of that. Acrtually this RAID 1 setup
I'm planning
is for my desktop machine, problem is is's not built like a server so there
is not the traditional
slid in bay for a second PS as do many 1 and 2u rack servers have. Unless there
is some
specialty product available that somehow fits in to a tower case.
Could you reccomend a redundant PS for a desktop machine (if they exist)?
_________________________________________________________________
Connect and share in new ways with Windows Live.
http://www.windowslive.com/share.html?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_Wave2_sharelife_012008
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 09:08:39 -0400
From: Therese Trudeau <mswotr at hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: [CentOS] Recommendations for a ?real RAID" 1 card on
Centos box
To: CentOS mailing list <centos at centos.org>
Message-ID: <BAY114-W3649DEFC4C59300C5F1551CF0A0 at phx.gbl>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252"
>>> You can turn on write back caching if you have a UPS as well
>>> (provided your UPS is wired into your system for a graceful
shutdown)
>>>
>>
>> Hopefully you have a redundant PS unit. Having a UPS is not going to
>> help if your PS fails.
>>
>>
>
> redundant power supplies connected to redundant UPS's. I've seen
more
> UPS failures than I've ever had failed PSUs on proper server grade
hardware.
This might be getting a bit elaborate for a desktop machine. I really want RAID
because
I'm tired every couple years of hard drive crashes and having to start from
scratch and
spending a week setting up new drives and getting my design software back on
line and trying
to recover data.
What do you think of alternative back up systems, such as a tape backup with
bare metal restore software? I'd go that route instead if I could fine a
solution which
would allow me to restore to different hardware, i.e. if my motherboard dies
and I need to buy a different brand or model MB. I know Storix back up software
has this capability - I use storix on my Linux server with RAID 1. @ home I
have
one Linux and one Windows desktop machine.
_________________________________________________________________
Connect and share in new ways with Windows Live.
http://www.windowslive.com/share.html?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_Wave2_sharelife_012008
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 09:08:42 -0400
From: Toby Bluhm <tkb at MidwestInstruments.com>
Subject: Re: [CentOS] Recommendations for a ?real RAID" 1 card on
Centos box
To: CentOS mailing list <centos at centos.org>
Message-ID: <47DA78DA.5050302 at MidwestInstruments.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed
Therese Trudeau wrote:>>> You can turn on write back caching if you have a UPS as well
>>> (provided your UPS is wired into your system for a graceful
shutdown)
>>>
>> Hopefully you have a redundant PS unit. Having a UPS is not going to
>> help if your PS fails.
>>
>
> That's a very good point never thought of that. Acrtually this RAID 1
setup I'm planning
> is for my desktop machine, problem is is's not built like a server so
there is not the traditional
> slid in bay for a second PS as do many 1 and 2u rack servers have. Unless
there is some
> specialty product available that somehow fits in to a tower case.
>
> Could you reccomend a redundant PS for a desktop machine (if they exist)?
>
>
The whole system needs to be designed for dual supplies. You can't just
plop down two power supplies in parallel without some circuitry that
attempts to monitor & balance them out.
I'm curious - why does your desktop needs so much redundancy ?
--
Toby Bluhm
Alltech Medical Systems America, Inc.
30825 Aurora Road Suite 100
Solon Ohio 44139
440-424-2240
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 09:23:40 -0400
From: John Plemons <john at mavin.com>
Subject: Re: [CentOS] Recommendations for a ?real RAID" 1 card on
Centos box
To: CentOS mailing list <centos at centos.org>
Message-ID: <47DA7C5C.2030403 at mavin.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed
Once you get a handle on what you are after check back with me, I have a
bunch of Raid controllers I picked up from a systems dealer who went out
of business. Some LSI's ICP, ICP says they are an Adaptec company and a
couple of other off brands... May be able to save you a few bucks, all
are new, oem style...
john
Therese Trudeau wrote:> Hi,
>
> I'm considering setting up my Centos Desktop machine for RAID 1. I
read a lot of good info at this
site:http://linuxmafia.com/faq/Hardware/sata.html#intel-vitesse about
differences in fakeraid and real raid cards.
>
> The hardware I plan on installing this RAID card into is an Intel DP35DP
motherboard with the Intel E4500 dual core processor, and I have two Mator 500
gig SATA hard drives.
>
> Can anyone recommend a good ?real raid? card for my Linux? What I am
looking for is to plug in a RAID controller card out of the box, and without
having to load any drivers onto my Centos 5.1 box, have the Real hardware RAID
card automatically do all the work, mirror my hard drive onto the second backup
drive and do all the work for me.
>
> Do such cards exist? If so which model /manufacturers do you recommend?
Any experiences/info/insights on hardware RAID cards good or bad on centos boxes
would be appreciated.
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Climb to the top of the charts! Play the word scramble challenge with star
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>
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> CentOS mailing list
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>
>
>
------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 09:29:26 -0400
From: "Ross S. W. Walker" <rwalker at medallion.com>
Subject: Re: [CentOS] Recommendations for a ?real RAID" 1 card on
Centos box
To: <centos at centos.org>
Message-ID:
<E2BB8074E5500C42984D980D4BD78EF901FB0006 at MFG-NYC-EXCH2.mfg.prv>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Therese,
You are definitely making your life more difficult then is needed for a desktop
machine.
You said you have 4 hard disks. Make a software RAID1 out of the first two. Make
a software RAID1 out of the second two and your good to go.
You can use dump/restore to backup the logical volumes on the second
RAID set to an LV on the first.
No need for bare metal restore. Just need to get some working Linux distro to be
able to read your files.
Going HW RAID for your desktop is going to get in the way of you getting things
going and if your HW RAID card fails then what? Your drives will only work with
another identical HW RAID card.
-Ross
----- Original Message -----
From: centos-bounces at centos.org <centos-bounces at centos.org>
To: CentOS mailing list <centos at centos.org>
Sent: Fri Mar 14 09:08:39 2008
Subject: RE: [CentOS] Recommendations for a ???real RAID" 1 card on Centos
box
>>> You can turn on write back caching if you have a UPS as well
>>> (provided your UPS is wired into your system for a graceful
shutdown)
>>>
>>
>> Hopefully you have a redundant PS unit. Having a UPS is not going to
>> help if your PS fails.
>>
>>
>
> redundant power supplies connected to redundant UPS's. I've seen
more
> UPS failures than I've ever had failed PSUs on proper server grade
hardware.
This might be getting a bit elaborate for a desktop machine. I really want RAID
because
I'm tired every couple years of hard drive crashes and having to start from
scratch and
spending a week setting up new drives and getting my design software back on
line and trying
to recover data.
What do you think of alternative back up systems, such as a tape backup with
bare metal restore software? I'd go that route instead if I could fine a
solution which
would allow me to restore to different hardware, i.e. if my motherboard dies
and I need to buy a different brand or model MB. I know Storix back up software
has this capability - I use storix on my Linux server with RAID 1. @ home I
have
one Linux and one Windows desktop machine.
_________________________________________________________________
Connect and share in new ways with Windows Live.
http://www.windowslive.com/share.html?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_Wave2_sharelife_012008_______________________________________________
CentOS mailing list
CentOS at centos.org
http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
______________________________________________________________________
This e-mail, and any attachments thereto, is intended only for use by
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------------------------------
Message: 7
Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 09:31:00 -0400
From: Therese Trudeau <mswotr at hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: [CentOS] Recommendations for a ?real RAID" 1 card on
Centos box
To: CentOS mailing list <centos at centos.org>
Message-ID: <BAY114-W5A6664E4F2A69987CE2DCCF0A0 at phx.gbl>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252"
> That is true, buy high quality stuff up front for fewer problems down
> the road. Not a sure bet, but a better one. In the half dozen systems
> I've been running at home for the past several years none of them
> have suffered a hardware failure of any kind(fortunately). I've been
> running PC Power and Cooling power supplies for about 9 years now,
> really high quality PSUs(last one I bought was about 4 years ago, can't
> speak for their quality now).
So for a top quality power supply for a mission critical desktop machine, which
brand(s) would you reccomend? One of the towers I have is a Thermaltake
Xaser 3 with lots of room, and I just bought a new Antec Sonata III tower
with a 500 watt PS.
> So BBU is certainly a nice thing to have but at least in my
> experience isn't absolutely critical.
Then for a Mission critical desktop machine, if you had to make
a choice, would you go with a good quality UPS and/or redundant
power supplies, or a BBU instead?
> Of course for absolutely critical things I don't use server-based
> RAID anyways. Multiple redundant controllers, multiple redundant
> paths(to both the disks and to the hosts), is the way to go(assuming
> your application(s) aren't built to be able to run on something
> like a distributed file system). I've seen that some of the
> latest HP servers have dual ported SAS disks, which sounds pretty
> neat. I assume they still only have one controller though.
As an alternative to RAID1 for a mission critical desktop machine @
home, what would you reccomend? Maybe a bare metal restore solution
able to restore to different hardware, (i.e. if a motherboard dies and drive
crashes due to power spike or some catastrophe, I'm screwed
if I can't find the exact same make - model)?
_________________________________________________________________
Connect and share in new ways with Windows Live.
http://www.windowslive.com/share.html?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_Wave2_sharelife_012008
------------------------------
Message: 8
Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 09:34:16 -0400
From: Toby Bluhm <tkb at MidwestInstruments.com>
Subject: Re: [CentOS] Recommendations for a ?real RAID" 1 card on
Centos box
To: CentOS mailing list <centos at centos.org>
Message-ID: <47DA7ED8.5040505 at MidwestInstruments.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed
Toby Bluhm wrote:> Therese Trudeau wrote:
>>>> You can turn on write back caching if you have a UPS as well
>>>> (provided your UPS is wired into your system for a graceful
shutdown)
>>>>
>>> Hopefully you have a redundant PS unit. Having a UPS is not going
to
>>> help if your PS fails.
>>>
>>
>> That's a very good point never thought of that. Acrtually this
RAID
>> 1 setup I'm planning
>> is for my desktop machine, problem is is's not built like a server
so
>> there is not the traditional slid in bay for a second PS as do many 1
>> and 2u rack servers have. Unless there is some
>> specialty product available that somehow fits in to a tower case.
>> Could you reccomend a redundant PS for a desktop machine (if they
>> exist)?
>>
>>
>
> The whole system needs to be designed for dual supplies. You can't
> just plop down two power supplies in parallel without some circuitry
> that attempts to monitor & balance them out.
>
>
> I'm curious - why does your desktop needs so much redundancy ?
>
>
Just for fun, the first hit on a google for "redundant atx power
supply"
http://www.directron.com/tc400r8.html
Seems you can just plop one into your std atx chassis . . .
--
Toby Bluhm
Alltech Medical Systems America, Inc.
30825 Aurora Road Suite 100
Solon Ohio 44139
440-424-2240
------------------------------
Message: 9
Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 09:34:37 -0400
From: "Ross S. W. Walker" <rwalker at medallion.com>
Subject: Re: [CentOS] Recommendations for a ?real RAID" 1 card on
Centos box
To: <centos at centos.org>
Message-ID:
<E2BB8074E5500C42984D980D4BD78EF901FB0007 at MFG-NYC-EXCH2.mfg.prv>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
This is getting OT and you are going to end up spending more on redundancy then
if you just called Dell and ordered another computer.
----- Original Message -----
From: centos-bounces at centos.org <centos-bounces at centos.org>
To: CentOS mailing list <centos at centos.org>
Sent: Fri Mar 14 09:31:00 2008
Subject: RE: [CentOS] Recommendations for a ???real RAID" 1 card on Centos
box
> That is true, buy high quality stuff up front for fewer problems down
> the road. Not a sure bet, but a better one. In the half dozen systems
> I've been running at home for the past several years none of them
> have suffered a hardware failure of any kind(fortunately). I've been
> running PC Power and Cooling power supplies for about 9 years now,
> really high quality PSUs(last one I bought was about 4 years ago, can't
> speak for their quality now).
So for a top quality power supply for a mission critical desktop machine, which
brand(s) would you reccomend? One of the towers I have is a Thermaltake
Xaser 3 with lots of room, and I just bought a new Antec Sonata III tower
with a 500 watt PS.
> So BBU is certainly a nice thing to have but at least in my
> experience isn't absolutely critical.
Then for a Mission critical desktop machine, if you had to make
a choice, would you go with a good quality UPS and/or redundant
power supplies, or a BBU instead?
> Of course for absolutely critical things I don't use server-based
> RAID anyways. Multiple redundant controllers, multiple redundant
> paths(to both the disks and to the hosts), is the way to go(assuming
> your application(s) aren't built to be able to run on something
> like a distributed file system). I've seen that some of the
> latest HP servers have dual ported SAS disks, which sounds pretty
> neat. I assume they still only have one controller though.
As an alternative to RAID1 for a mission critical desktop machine @
home, what would you reccomend? Maybe a bare metal restore solution
able to restore to different hardware, (i.e. if a motherboard dies and drive
crashes due to power spike or some catastrophe, I'm screwed
if I can't find the exact same make - model)?
_________________________________________________________________
Connect and share in new ways with Windows Live.
http://www.windowslive.com/share.html?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_Wave2_sharelife_012008_______________________________________________
CentOS mailing list
CentOS at centos.org
http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
______________________________________________________________________
This e-mail, and any attachments thereto, is intended only for use by
the addressee(s) named herein and may contain legally privileged
and/or confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient
of this e-mail, you are hereby notified that any dissemination,
distribution or copying of this e-mail, and any attachments thereto,
is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error,
please immediately notify the sender and permanently delete the
original and any copy or printout thereof.
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------------------------------
Message: 10
Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 13:41:59 +0000
From: Tom Brown <tom at ng23.net>
Subject: Re: [CentOS] Recommendations for a ?real RAID" 1 card on
Centos box
To: CentOS mailing list <centos at centos.org>
Message-ID: <47DA80A7.5080104 at ng23.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed
>>
>>
>
> Just for fun, the first hit on a google for "redundant atx power
supply"
>
> http://www.directron.com/tc400r8.html
>
>
> Seems you can just plop one into your std atx chassis . . .
>
>
i have never understood how something with a single feed can be termed
'redundant'
------------------------------
Message: 11
Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 09:47:14 -0400
From: Therese Trudeau <mswotr at hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: [CentOS] Recommendations for a ?real RAID" 1 card on
Centos box
To: CentOS mailing list <centos at centos.org>
Message-ID: <BAY114-W31EB0A7A6C8BD15782798CCF0A0 at phx.gbl>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252"
>> That's a very good point never thought of that. Acrtually this
RAID 1 setup I'm planning
>> is for my desktop machine, problem is is's not built like a server
so there is not the traditional
>> slid in bay for a second PS as do many 1 and 2u rack servers have.
Unless there is some
>> specialty product available that somehow fits in to a tower case.
>>
>> Could you reccomend a redundant PS for a desktop machine (if they
exist)?
>>
>>
>
> The whole system needs to be designed for dual supplies. You can't just
> plop down two power supplies in parallel without some circuitry that
> attempts to monitor & balance them out.
Yes I realize that thanks, just wondered if there was some new product combo out
there for existing towers, i.e. dual power supplies with controller boards,
from your comment I assume there is not.
I'd be willing to migrate all of my hardware, i.e. motherboard, monitor card
etc,
to a new case, if I could find a case which includes a controller card for the
power supplies, or
a case that comes complete with such.
> I'm curious - why does your desktop needs so much redundancy ?
Because I use the desktop machines about ten hours a day, I work out of home,
doing graphic design, web design, uploading files to server, managing server,
etc. The home
desktop machines are just as mission critical as the server I upload to is.
Maybe more so,
because if there is a problem server side, I need remote access to it 24/7.
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Message: 12
Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 09:55:44 -0400
From: Therese Trudeau <mswotr at hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: [CentOS] Recommendations for a ?real RAID" 1 card on
Centos box
To: CentOS mailing list <centos at centos.org>
Message-ID: <BAY114-W357210198F301E2C649D5BCF0A0 at phx.gbl>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252"
>>>>> You can turn on write back caching if you have a UPS as
well
>>>>> (provided your UPS is wired into your system for a
graceful shutdown)
>>>>>
>>>> Hopefully you have a redundant PS unit. Having a UPS is not
going to
>>>> help if your PS fails.
>>>>
>>>
>>> That's a very good point never thought of that. Acrtually this
RAID
>>> 1 setup I'm planning
>>> is for my desktop machine, problem is is's not built like a
server so
>>> there is not the traditional slid in bay for a second PS as do many
1
>>> and 2u rack servers have. Unless there is some
>>> specialty product available that somehow fits in to a tower case.
>>> Could you reccomend a redundant PS for a desktop machine (if they
>>> exist)?
>>>
>>>
>>
>> The whole system needs to be designed for dual supplies. You can't
>> just plop down two power supplies in parallel without some circuitry
>> that attempts to monitor & balance them out.
>>
>>
>> I'm curious - why does your desktop needs so much redundancy ?
>>
>>
>
> Just for fun, the first hit on a google for "redundant atx power
supply"
>
> http://www.directron.com/tc400r8.html
>
>
> Seems you can just plop one into your std atx chassis . . .
Hey thank's that's pretty cool, I'll check it out!
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------------------------------
Message: 13
Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 10:00:21 -0400
From: Therese Trudeau <mswotr at hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: [CentOS] Recommendations for a ?real RAID" 1 card on
Centos box
To: CentOS mailing list <centos at centos.org>
Message-ID: <BAY114-W32020BA21B13113448BC31CF0A0 at phx.gbl>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252"
>> Just for fun, the first hit on a google for "redundant atx power
supply"
>>
>> http://www.directron.com/tc400r8.html
>>
>>
>> Seems you can just plop one into your std atx chassis . . .
>>
>>
>
> i have never understood how something with a single feed can be termed
> 'redundant'
Yeah, that PS appears to have only one outlet (unless i'm not seeing it in
the photo),
most redundant PS's have seperaate outlets for a Y power cable one for each
supply.
Guess it's not that redundant.
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Message: 14
Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 10:07:11 -0400
From: Therese Trudeau <mswotr at hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: [CentOS] Recommendations for a ?real RAID" 1 card on
Centos box
To: CentOS mailing list <centos at centos.org>
Message-ID: <BAY114-W142FACC4D9DD53193DBDA3CF0A0 at phx.gbl>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252"
> This is getting OT and you are going to end up spending more on redundancy
then if you just called Dell and ordered another computer.
I agree with you in that it's cheaper to buy another home computer than to
design a system with redundancy.
However that new conputer I would order from Dell probabally would not have the
redundancy I need in a
a workstation, and I would just end up back where I started anyway.
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Message: 15
Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 14:09:02 +0000
From: Tom Brown <tom at ng23.net>
Subject: Re: [CentOS] Recommendations for a ?real RAID" 1 card on
Centos box
To: CentOS mailing list <centos at centos.org>
Message-ID: <47DA86FE.1030808 at ng23.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed
> Yeah, that PS appears to have only one outlet (unless i'm not seeing it
in the photo),
> most redundant PS's have seperaate outlets for a Y power cable one for
each supply.
> Guess it's not that redundant.
>
yes - although i would never use a Y cable - Dual PSU's need 2 feeds
from seperate PDU's
------------------------------
Message: 16
Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 10:12:44 -0400
From: "Ross S. W. Walker" <rwalker at medallion.com>
Subject: RE: [CentOS] Recommendations for a "real RAID" 1 card on
Centos box
To: "CentOS mailing list" <centos at centos.org>
Message-ID:
<E2BB8074E5500C42984D980D4BD78EF901FB0008 at MFG-NYC-EXCH2.mfg.prv>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Therese Trudeau wrote:>
> > This is getting OT and you are going to end up spending
> > more on redundancy then if you just called Dell and ordered
> > another computer.
>
> I agree with you in that it's cheaper to buy another home
> computer than to design a system with redundancy.
> However that new conputer I would order from Dell probabally
> would not have the redundancy I need in a
> a workstation, and I would just end up back where I started anyway.
I think you missed my point. If workstation A fails, call Dell and
have another one overnighted, or call Dell today and order a second
workstation to have as a backup or act as a secondary workstation.
Their Vostros line is cheap (in appearance, components and price),
but is functional, performs well and did I say cheap already, so
you can get 2 for the price of 1 highly redundant system.
-Ross
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Message: 17
Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 10:20:38 -0400
From: Therese Trudeau <mswotr at hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: [CentOS] Recommendations for a "real RAID" 1 card on
Centos box
To: CentOS mailing list <centos at centos.org>
Message-ID: <BAY114-W4977506C529F51F720FD83CF0A0 at phx.gbl>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>>> This is getting OT and you are going to end up spending
>>> more on redundancy then if you just called Dell and ordered
>>> another computer.
>>
>> I agree with you in that it's cheaper to buy another home
>> computer than to design a system with redundancy.
>> However that new conputer I would order from Dell probabally
>> would not have the redundancy I need in a
>> a workstation, and I would just end up back where I started anyway.
>
> I think you missed my point. If workstation A fails, call Dell and
> have another one overnighted, or call Dell today and order a second
> workstation to have as a backup or act as a secondary workstation.
>
> Their Vostros line is cheap (in appearance, components and price),
> but is functional, performs well and did I say cheap already, so
> you can get 2 for the price of 1 highly redundant system.
Ah I got it now thanks.
Does the Vostros come with either a bare metal restore tape backup system or
RAID
( which is required for my situation)?
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Message: 18
Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 10:33:29 -0400
From: Therese Trudeau <mswotr at hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: [CentOS] Recommendations for a ?real RAID" 1 card on
Centos box
To: CentOS mailing list <centos at centos.org>
Message-ID: <BAY114-W25EE830C984F925CBCCFCECF0A0 at phx.gbl>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252"
> You are definitely making your life more difficult then is needed for a
desktop machine.
>
> You said you have 4 hard disks. Make a software RAID1 out of the first two.
Make a software RAID1 out of the second two and your good to go.
>
> You can use dump/restore to backup the logical volumes on the second
> RAID set to an LV on the first.
>
> No need for bare metal restore. Just need to get some working Linux distro
to be able to read your files.
>
> Going HW RAID for your desktop is going to get in the way of you getting
things going and if your HW RAID card fails then what? Your drives will only
work with another identical HW RAID card.
>
> -Ross
That makes total sense Ross, I think I may end up going with software raid and
investing in a good hot swap redundant power supply
that would fit into an ATX case, combined with a good UPS.
That brings up a last question on possiblity of either a 3ware or acrea RAID 1
cards. I'm wondering how long I would be able to order
a replacement RAID card from either of 3ware or areea. Anyone know if 3ware or
acrea stock identical replacement cards for their SATA 4 port raid cards
for several years out? Do they stock past the three year warranty period?
_________________________________________________________________
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Message: 19
Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 10:37:57 -0400
From: "Ross S. W. Walker" <rwalker at medallion.com>
Subject: RE: [CentOS] Recommendations for a "real RAID" 1 card on
Centos box
To: "CentOS mailing list" <centos at centos.org>
Message-ID:
<E2BB8074E5500C42984D980D4BD78EF901FB000A at MFG-NYC-EXCH2.mfg.prv>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Therese Trudeau wrote:> >>> This is getting OT and you are going to end up spending
> >>> more on redundancy then if you just called Dell and ordered
> >>> another computer.
> >>
> >> I agree with you in that it's cheaper to buy another home
> >> computer than to design a system with redundancy.
> >> However that new conputer I would order from Dell probabally
> >> would not have the redundancy I need in a
> >> a workstation, and I would just end up back where I started
anyway.
> >
> > I think you missed my point. If workstation A fails, call Dell and
> > have another one overnighted, or call Dell today and order a second
> > workstation to have as a backup or act as a secondary workstation.
> >
> > Their Vostros line is cheap (in appearance, components and price),
> > but is functional, performs well and did I say cheap already, so
> > you can get 2 for the price of 1 highly redundant system.
>
> Ah I got it now thanks.
>
> Does the Vostros come with either a bare metal restore tape
> backup system or RAID
> ( which is required for my situation)?
They will sell you the moon if you want, but let me give you
some practical advice. You seem like you are running your own
consulting business, so this advice will not only save you
time, but money which is key when running your own business.
Buy your computers with NO hardware RAID, your not setting
up high performance database systems for hundreds of users
here. Get systems with 2 identical internal 250GB SATA
drives and setup software RAID1 on them. Get an external
USB/Firewire drive, you can even get those in RAID1 too
and have automated dump scripts backup your data to it.
Install your Linux distro with common reproduceable options
using standard repos and document it.
Here's how I would setup the internal hard drives, can be
done easily through anaconda even with kickstart.
/dev/sda1 - 100MB RAID
/dev/sda2 - Rest of Disk RAID
/dev/sdb1 - 100MB RAID
/dev/sdb2 - Rest of Disk RAID
/dev/md0 - /dev/sda1 /dev/sdb1 RAID1, ext3, /boot
/dev/md1 - /dev/sda2 /dev/sdb2 RAID1, LVM
VG CentOS - PV /dev/md1
LV root - VG CentOS, 16GB, ext3, /
LV swap - VG CentOS, 4GB, swap
LV home - VG CentOS, 32GB, ext3, /home
LV work - VG CentOS, 64GB, ext3, /work
If the system crashes you can move your USB drive over to
the other system and restore there, and/or have rsync keep
the other system identical to the first. Setup NIS/NFS or
whatever to share the data/authentication information.
This setup will be more cost effective and faster then
what you are currently planning.
-Ross
______________________________________________________________________
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Message: 20
Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 10:42:40 -0400
From: Therese Trudeau <mswotr at hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: [CentOS] Recommendations for a ?real RAID" 1 card on
Centos box
To: CentOS mailing list <centos at centos.org>
Message-ID: <BAY114-W1708824BC4760B9383955ECF0A0 at phx.gbl>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252"
> Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 10:33:29 -0400
>
>
>> You are definitely making your life more difficult then is needed for a
desktop machine.
>>
>> You said you have 4 hard disks. Make a software RAID1 out of the first
two. Make a software RAID1 out of the second two and your good to go.
>>
>> You can use dump/restore to backup the logical volumes on the second
>> RAID set to an LV on the first.
>>
>> No need for bare metal restore. Just need to get some working Linux
distro to be able to read your files.
>>
>> Going HW RAID for your desktop is going to get in the way of you
getting things going and if your HW RAID card fails then what? Your drives will
only work with another identical HW RAID card.
>>
>> -Ross
>
> That makes total sense Ross, I think I may end up going with software raid
and investing in a good hot swap redundant power supply
> that would fit into an ATX case, combined with a good UPS.
>
> That brings up a last question on possiblity of either a 3ware or acrea
RAID 1 cards. I'm wondering how long I would be able to order
> a replacement RAID card from either of 3ware or areea. Anyone know if
3ware or acrea stock identical replacement cards for their SATA 4 port raid
cards
> for several years out? Do they stock past the three year warranty period?
ACTUALLY I totally forgot. I absoluteluy can not use software raid. Because I
use Adobe products. Adobe products do not install
well on software raid systems, and tend to crash on software raid beacuse of
their activation process. If I go raid, I absolutely need a hardware raid
which is entirely transparent to the operating system, at least as far as adobe
products are concerned.
_________________________________________________________________
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Message: 21
Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 10:47:31 -0400
From: Toby Bluhm <tkb at MidwestInstruments.com>
Subject: Re: [CentOS] Recommendations for a ?real RAID" 1 card on
Centos box
To: CentOS mailing list <centos at centos.org>
Message-ID: <47DA9003.20308 at MidwestInstruments.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed
Tom Brown wrote:>
>> Yeah, that PS appears to have only one outlet (unless i'm not
seeing
>> it in the photo),
>> most redundant PS's have seperaate outlets for a Y power cable one
>> for each supply.
>> Guess it's not that redundant.
>>
>
> yes - although i would never use a Y cable - Dual PSU's need 2 feeds
> from seperate PDU's
>
Unless you have another source of AC power or want to use two UPS, then
it's not important.
--
Toby Bluhm
Alltech Medical Systems America, Inc.
30825 Aurora Road Suite 100
Solon Ohio 44139
440-424-2240
------------------------------
Message: 22
Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 10:48:21 -0400
From: "Ross S. W. Walker" <rwalker at medallion.com>
Subject: RE: [CentOS] Recommendations for a "real RAID" 1 card on
Centos box
To: "CentOS mailing list" <centos at centos.org>
Message-ID:
<E2BB8074E5500C42984D980D4BD78EF901FB000B at MFG-NYC-EXCH2.mfg.prv>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Therese Trudeau wrote:>
> > You are definitely making your life more difficult then is needed
> > for a desktop machine.
> >
> > You said you have 4 hard disks. Make a software RAID1 out of the
> > first two. Make a software RAID1 out of the second two and your
> > good to go.
> >
> > You can use dump/restore to backup the logical volumes on the second
> > RAID set to an LV on the first.
> >
> > No need for bare metal restore. Just need to get some working Linux
> > distro to be able to read your files.
> >
> > Going HW RAID for your desktop is going to get in the way of you
> > getting things going and if your HW RAID card fails then what? Your
> > drives will only work with another identical HW RAID card.
> >
> > -Ross
>
> That makes total sense Ross, I think I may end up going with software
> raid and investing in a good hot swap redundant power supply that
> would fit into an ATX case, combined with a good UPS.
>
> That brings up a last question on possiblity of either a 3ware or
> acrea RAID 1 cards. I'm wondering how long I would be able to order
> a replacement RAID card from either of 3ware or areea. Anyone know
> if 3ware or acrea stock identical replacement cards for their SATA
> 4 port raid cards for several years out? Do they stock past the
> three year warranty period?
The problem with this is if you buy the previous generation card
because it's cheap and vendors stop selling it then you may be
SOL.
-Ross
______________________________________________________________________
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Message: 23
Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 10:53:39 -0400
From: "Ross S. W. Walker" <rwalker at medallion.com>
Subject: RE: [CentOS] Recommendations for a "real RAID" 1 card on
Centos box
To: "CentOS mailing list" <centos at centos.org>
Message-ID:
<E2BB8074E5500C42984D980D4BD78EF901FB000C at MFG-NYC-EXCH2.mfg.prv>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Therese Trudeau wrote:> > Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 10:33:29 -0400
> >
> >
> >> You are definitely making your life more difficult then is
> >> needed for a desktop machine.
> >>
> >> You said you have 4 hard disks. Make a software RAID1 out
> >> of the first two. Make a software RAID1 out of the second two
> >> and your good to go.
> >>
> >> You can use dump/restore to backup the logical volumes on
> >> the second
> >> RAID set to an LV on the first.
> >>
> >> No need for bare metal restore. Just need to get some
> >> working Linux distro to be able to read your files.
> >>
> >> Going HW RAID for your desktop is going to get in the way
> >> of you getting things going and if your HW RAID card fails
> >> then what? Your drives will only work with another identical
> >> HW RAID card.
> >>
> >> -Ross
> >
> > That makes total sense Ross, I think I may end up going
> > with software raid and investing in a good hot swap redundant
> > power supply
> > that would fit into an ATX case, combined with a good UPS.
> >
> > That brings up a last question on possiblity of either a
> > 3ware or acrea RAID 1 cards. I'm wondering how long I would
> > be able to order
> > a replacement RAID card from either of 3ware or areea.
> > Anyone know if 3ware or acrea stock identical replacement
> > cards for their SATA 4 port raid cards
> > for several years out? Do they stock past the three year
> > warranty period?
>
> ACTUALLY I totally forgot. I absoluteluy can not use
> software raid. Because I use Adobe products. Adobe products
> do not install
> well on software raid systems, and tend to crash on software
> raid beacuse of their activation process. If I go raid, I
> absolutely need a hardware raid
> which is entirely transparent to the operating system, at
> least as far as adobe products are concerned.
What Adobe products do you use under Linux? I did not know
that Adobe offered products outside of Reader and Flash
for Linux.
Besides, where did you read that Adobe products don't
work on RAID systems?
The RAID part will be well hidden under the Logical Volume
Manager even if the first is true.
RAID1 can speed up sequential read speed, as a well
designed RAID implementation can stripe the read requests
across both spindles (and dm-raid does that!).
-Ross
______________________________________________________________________
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Message: 24
Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 10:59:33 -0400
From: Toby Bluhm <tkb at MidwestInstruments.com>
Subject: Re: [CentOS] Recommendations for a ?real RAID" 1 card on
Centos box
To: CentOS mailing list <centos at centos.org>
Message-ID: <47DA92D5.5020909 at MidwestInstruments.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed
Therese Trudeau wrote:>> Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 10:33:29 -0400
>>
>>
> ACTUALLY I totally forgot. I absoluteluy can not use software raid.
Because I use Adobe products. Adobe products do not install
> well on software raid systems, and tend to crash on software raid beacuse
of their activation process. If I go raid, I absolutely need a hardware raid
> which is entirely transparent to the operating system, at least as far as
adobe products are concerned.
>
The stuff I found about that issue seemed to be on Windows. Are you dual
booting this box?
--
Toby Bluhm
Alltech Medical Systems America, Inc.
30825 Aurora Road Suite 100
Solon Ohio 44139
440-424-2240
------------------------------
Message: 25
Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 15:14:17 +0000
From: "Peter Farrell" <peter.d.farrell at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [CentOS] evince on centos5.1
To: "CentOS mailing list" <centos at centos.org>
Message-ID:
<edb3d60f0803140814u141be50ds6b28db0ac04f95d4 at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
I see everyone's point about acrobat reader - but I run 50+ machines
of Cent 4.5 and run remote desktops on all of them - I think the
latest (8.*) version of Adobe Acrobat is miles and miles better than
the bloated pig we used to have to use. I don't have issues with it
remotely either. I find it quick and stable. (but I tend to only view
text based reports) I haven't used evince on my setup but I have used
kpdf remotely with no issues as well.
-Peter
-Cardiff - UK
On 14/03/2008, Niki Kovacs <contact at kikinovak.net>
wrote:> William L. Maltby a ??crit :
>
>
> >>
> >> Is there an alternative?
> > I use Adobe's acroread. Works very well. But don't get the
8.* series -
> > it's broken in printer interface and is a little bloated do to a
not yet
> > really useful voice reader capability.
>
>
> I'm using CentOS 5.1 for all our desktops in public libraries around
> here. People around here handle various PDF's all the time. Most of
the
> components are lightweight, since we have some older hardware: minimal
> cholesterol-free base system, XFCE desktop, ... and applications with a
> possibly small footprint.
>
> Acroread sure handles PDF well, and the browser plugin comes in handy
> too. On the downside, it's closed source, weighs several dozen
MB's and
> has the bad habit of "phoning home". So I just decided to do
without,
> and rely on Evince and maybe xpdf (following a hint of R. Herring on
> this list). It's a bit like deciding to feed sanely, without
cholesterol
> or genetically modified food. In the long run, you're better off.
>
> cheers,
>
>
> Niki
>
> _______________________________________________
> CentOS mailing list
> CentOS at centos.org
> http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
>
------------------------------
Message: 26
Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 11:22:25 -0400
From: Therese Trudeau <mswotr at hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: [CentOS] Recommendations for a "real RAID" 1 card on
Centos box
To: CentOS mailing list <centos at centos.org>
Message-ID: <BAY114-W7E1B1E194F2FC8C603B3FCF0A0 at phx.gbl>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>>> That brings up a last question on possiblity of either a
>>> 3ware or acrea RAID 1 cards. I'm wondering how long I would
>>> be able to order
>>> a replacement RAID card from either of 3ware or areea.
>>> Anyone know if 3ware or acrea stock identical replacement
>>> cards for their SATA 4 port raid cards
>>> for several years out? Do they stock past the three year
>>> warranty period?
>>
>> ACTUALLY I totally forgot. I absoluteluy can not use
>> software raid. Because I use Adobe products. Adobe products
>> do not install
>> well on software raid systems, and tend to crash on software
>> raid beacuse of their activation process. If I go raid, I
>> absolutely need a hardware raid
>> which is entirely transparent to the operating system, at
>> least as far as adobe products are concerned.
>
> What Adobe products do you use under Linux? I did not know
> that Adobe offered products outside of Reader and Flash
> for Linux.
>
> Besides, where did you read that Adobe products don't
> work on RAID systems?
>
> The RAID part will be well hidden under the Logical Volume
> Manager even if the first is true.
>
> RAID1 can speed up sequential read speed, as a well
> designed RAID implementation can stripe the read requests
> across both spindles (and dm-raid does that!).
Ah I figured someone would ask that. I use pretty much all major adobe
products, Photoshop,
Illustrator, Flash, just about the entire suite.
I have two home workstation machines.
One is Centos, and one is Windows (the one I use Adobe on). I'd prefer if
possible
to have the same type of RAID cards on both machines, because easier to
manage and if I ever decide to sell or give away one machine, I can pull
the raid card and use it as a backup.
>From experience I have learned that Photoshop will not install on software
raid on my W2K machine - I tried it
two years ago, could not get it to install, and after a few days trying to get
it to work, called
Adobe tech support and at that time the tech support person told me
that their products don't run on software raid because they don't want
people having
multiple copies of one license on a second drive (unless it's for their
second copy allowance for a laptop or second machine owned by same person,
and only one or the other - the laptop or second desktop are run at the same
time -
my second copy is on a laptop ).
Also I may at some time migrate my adobe products to the
Linux machine and run Adobe on WINE on the Linux box. Google
just started working with the folks over @ WINE, and they want
to make it so all adobe products run flawlessly on Linux - WINE, not just
photoshop and illustrator. Today some adobe products run on wine well, some
don't,
in a few years they all will run well on a linux box using WINE. I'm not
sure
about running adobe using software raid on a linux box and WINE - never tried
it, but going with
hareware raid on the linux box eliminates another possible unknown.
_________________________________________________________________
Connect and share in new ways with Windows Live.
http://www.windowslive.com/share.html?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_Wave2_sharelife_012008
------------------------------
Message: 27
Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 15:23:24 +0000
From: "Peter Farrell" <peter.d.farrell at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [CentOS] MySQL 4.1 on Centos 5 ?
To: "CentOS mailing list" <centos at centos.org>
Message-ID:
<edb3d60f0803140823n4cae059ara98f3746cb743bd3 at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Compile it man! Set the flags so everything goes under
/usr/local/mysql. What's the big deal? What was that about 'making my
server dirty'? That's crazy talk. We've got similar apps that hook
together tomcat, rmi and mysql 4.1 - we can't change versions for a
variety of reasons - but when I added new servers - I justed rsync'd
over the same version from another another machine. It's compiled for
the same arch - and it's all self-contained.
-Peter
-Cardiff, UK
On 14/03/2008, Niki Kovacs <contact at kikinovak.net>
wrote:> Fajar Priyanto a ??crit :
>
> >
> > Installing an old mysql into the latest centos is not the best way
either.
> > Why not installing the whole database into the new mysql? Unless
it's using
> > functions that are not available/compatible with mysql5, it will work
OK.
> >
>
> Wrong. I'm running a public library management software that requires
> MySQL 4 and will not run on MySQL 5. The MySQL documentation also states
> that some functions in MySQL 5 are *not* backwards-compatible.
>
> cheers,
>
>
> Niki
>
> _______________________________________________
> CentOS mailing list
> CentOS at centos.org
> http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
>
------------------------------
Message: 28
Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 11:29:03 -0400
From: Therese Trudeau <mswotr at hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: [CentOS] Recommendations for a ?real RAID" 1 card on
Centos box
To: CentOS mailing list <centos at centos.org>
Message-ID: <BAY114-W26601364F586C989469244CF0A0 at phx.gbl>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252"
>> ACTUALLY I totally forgot. I absoluteluy can not use software raid.
Because I use Adobe products. Adobe products do not install
>> well on software raid systems, and tend to crash on software raid
beacuse of their activation process. If I go raid, I absolutely need a hardware
raid
>> which is entirely transparent to the operating system, at least as far
as adobe products are concerned.
>>
>
> The stuff I found about that issue seemed to be on Windows. Are you dual
> booting this box?
No, read this:
http://by114w.bay114.mail.live.com/mail/ReadMessageLight.aspx?Aux=14%7c0%7c8CA53FEB6F84AE0%7c&FolderID=00000000-0000-0000-0000-000000000001&InboxSortAscending=False&InboxSortBy=Date&ReadMessageId=7c63352d-9f07-476b-b568-56a3b3aeb8c8&n=562513198
my previous thread...
_________________________________________________________________
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http://biggestloser.msn.com/
------------------------------
Message: 29
Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 10:34:10 -0500
From: Les Mikesell <lesmikesell at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [CentOS] Recommendations for a ?real RAID" 1 card on
Centos box
To: CentOS mailing list <centos at centos.org>
Message-ID: <47DA9AF2.9010403 at gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed
Tom Brown wrote:
>>
>> Just for fun, the first hit on a google for "redundant atx power
supply"
>>
>> http://www.directron.com/tc400r8.html
>>
>>
>> Seems you can just plop one into your std atx chassis . . .
>>
>>
>
> i have never understood how something with a single feed can be termed
> 'redundant'
>
Yes, that doesn't make sense, even aside from the fact that the
connected UPS is about as likely to fail as the PS itself. One of the
big values of having dual power supplies with two power cords is that
you can move the plugs from one outlet to another while it is still
running (e.g. to replace the UPS, move to a new location while connected
to a small UPS, or just to move the cord to a different outlet).
--
Les Mikesell
lesmikesell at gmail.com
------------------------------
Message: 30
Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 16:40:14 +0100
From: Niki Kovacs <contact at kikinovak.net>
Subject: Re: [CentOS] MySQL 4.1 on Centos 5 ?
To: CentOS mailing list <centos at centos.org>
Message-ID: <47DA9C5E.4040709 at kikinovak.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Peter Farrell a ?crit :> Compile it man! Set the flags so everything goes under
> /usr/local/mysql. What's the big deal?
Ermmmm... I think you wanted to reply to someone else. Because I share
your viewpoint.
Cheers,
Niki
------------------------------
Message: 31
Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 11:46:27 -0400
From: Toby Bluhm <tkb at MidwestInstruments.com>
Subject: Re: [CentOS] Recommendations for a ?real RAID" 1 card on
Centos box
To: CentOS mailing list <centos at centos.org>
Message-ID: <47DA9DD3.3070209 at MidwestInstruments.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed
Therese Trudeau wrote:>>> ACTUALLY I totally forgot. I absoluteluy can not use software
raid. Because I use Adobe products. Adobe products do not install
>>> well on software raid systems, and tend to crash on software raid
beacuse of their activation process. If I go raid, I absolutely need a hardware
raid
>>> which is entirely transparent to the operating system, at least as
far as adobe products are concerned.
>>>
>>>
>> The stuff I found about that issue seemed to be on Windows. Are you
dual
>> booting this box?
>>
>
> No, read this:
http://by114w.bay114.mail.live.com/mail/ReadMessageLight.aspx?Aux=14%7c0%7c8CA53FEB6F84AE0%7c&FolderID=00000000-0000-0000-0000-000000000001&InboxSortAscending=False&InboxSortBy=Date&ReadMessageId=7c63352d-9f07-476b-b568-56a3b3aeb8c8&n=562513198
>
> my previous thread...
>
Sorry, I can't access your Windows Live Hotmail inbox . . .
--
Toby Bluhm
Alltech Medical Systems America, Inc.
30825 Aurora Road Suite 100
Solon Ohio 44139
440-424-2240
------------------------------
Message: 32
Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 08:48:51 -0700
From: John R Pierce <pierce at hogranch.com>
Subject: Re: [CentOS] Recommendations for a ?real RAID" 1 card on
Centos box
To: CentOS mailing list <centos at centos.org>
Message-ID: <47DA9E63.6030502 at hogranch.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed
Therese Trudeau wrote:> What do you think of alternative back up systems, such as a tape
> backup with
> bare metal restore software? I'd go that route instead if I could fine
a solution which
> would allow me to restore to different hardware, i.e. if my motherboard
dies
> and I need to buy a different brand or model MB. I know Storix back up
software
> has this capability - I use storix on my Linux server with RAID 1. @ home
I have
> one Linux and one Windows desktop machine.
>
raid is no substitute for backup, raid is strictly for maintaining 24/7
uptime in the face of hardware failures, which is total overkill for
your desktop.
Skip RAID entirely.... Instead, get some external USB drives. on the
linux machine, use 'dump' or 'tar' or whatever in a script to
make
backups, on the windows machine, get and use Acronis DiskImage, which
has a bare metal restore from a bootable CD-R you can build.
build the windows system so the c: 'system' drive is only about 30-40GB,
plenty big enough for the OS plus all your mainstream applications
(adobe, etc), and use a D: drive for /all/ your data, including your
user account profile. this way the bare metal restore only has to
restore said C:, and you can use incremental datafile oriented backup
techniques for the D: 'data' drive.
do much the same with linux, a modest / and a seperate /home
------------------------------
Message: 33
Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 10:54:55 -0500
From: Les Mikesell <lesmikesell at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [CentOS] Recommendations for a "real RAID" 1 card on
Centos box
To: CentOS mailing list <centos at centos.org>
Message-ID: <47DA9FCF.60800 at gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Therese Trudeau wrote:>
> I have two home workstation machines.
> One is Centos, and one is Windows (the one I use Adobe on). I'd prefer
if possible
> to have the same type of RAID cards on both machines, because easier to
> manage and if I ever decide to sell or give away one machine, I can pull
> the raid card and use it as a backup.
I've always considered this a huge advantage of software raid1. Even if
everything on a machine melts except for one drive, you can recover
the data from it and you don't need a special controller to do it. On
windows, you need the server versions to do mirroring, though.
If you can tolerate losing an hour's work or so, you could just schedule
rsync commands to keep copies updated on another (perhaps external)
drive or to another machine on the network - or get a Mac with it's
'time machine' backup. This approach is actually safer than RAID alone,
since operator or software errors will wipe out your mirrored copy
instantly as well with RAID.
--
Les Mikesell
lesmikesell at gmail.com
------------------------------
Message: 34
Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 22:56:54 +0700
From: Fajar Priyanto <fajarpri at cbn.net.id>
Subject: Re: [CentOS] MySQL 4.1 on Centos 5 ?
To: centos at centos.org
Message-ID: <200803142256.54443.fajarpri at cbn.net.id>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
On Friday 14 March 2008 12:12:45 Niki Kovacs wrote:> Fajar Priyanto a ?crit :
> > Installing an old mysql into the latest centos is not the best way
> > either. Why not installing the whole database into the new mysql?
Unless
> > it's using functions that are not available/compatible with
mysql5, it
> > will work OK.
>
> Wrong. I'm running a public library management software that requires
> MySQL 4 and will not run on MySQL 5. The MySQL documentation also states
> that some functions in MySQL 5 are *not* backwards-compatible.
>From what I've seen all these years, most of the time php and mysql
bundled
applications such as phpnuke, mambo, joomla, etc they all state: use
mysql 'at least' version blabla. So the newer the mysql
'usually' the better.
It's the whole different thing regarding backward compatibility. Of course
it's a pointless bad habit installing a web program that clearly
states 'require at least mysql 5.x.x' into mysql 4.x.x :)
May I know the name of the library management program? KOHA?
--
Fajar Priyanto | Reg'd Linux User #327841 | Linux tutorial
http://linux2.arinet.org
22:55:50 up 44 min, 2.6.22-14-generic GNU/Linux
Let's use OpenOffice. http://www.openoffice.org
The real challenge of teaching is getting your students motivated to learn.
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------------------------------
Message: 35
Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 15:58:20 +0000
From: Anne Wilson <cannewilson at googlemail.com>
Subject: Re: [CentOS] evince on centos5.1
To: CentOS mailing list <centos at centos.org>
Message-ID: <200803141558.20449.cannewilson at googlemail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
On Friday 14 March 2008 15:14, Peter Farrell wrote:> I see everyone's point about acrobat reader - but I run 50+ machines
> of Cent 4.5 and run remote desktops on all of them - I think the
> latest (8.*) version of Adobe Acrobat is miles and miles better than
> the bloated pig we used to have to use. I don't have issues with it
> remotely either. I find it quick and stable. (but I tend to only view
> text based reports) I haven't used evince on my setup but I have used
> kpdf remotely with no issues as well.
I have not felt the need for Acrobat for a long time. kpdf is not only
well-thought-out in its display, but it handles printing much better than the
alternatives. At least, that's my impression. I've not found anything
yet
that it can't handle, which I can't say for either evince of xpdf.
Anne
------------------------------
Message: 36
Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 12:00:02 -0400
From: Therese Trudeau <mswotr at hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: [CentOS] Recommendations for a "real RAID" 1 card on
Centos box
To: CentOS mailing list <centos at centos.org>
Message-ID: <BAY114-W3988E729BCF6C5909E2D43CF0A0 at phx.gbl>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>>> You are definitely making your life more difficult then is needed
>>> for a desktop machine.
>>>
>>> You said you have 4 hard disks. Make a software RAID1 out of the
>>> first two. Make a software RAID1 out of the second two and your
>>> good to go.
>>>
>>> You can use dump/restore to backup the logical volumes on the
second
>>> RAID set to an LV on the first.
>>>
>>> No need for bare metal restore. Just need to get some working Linux
>>> distro to be able to read your files.
>>>
>>> Going HW RAID for your desktop is going to get in the way of you
>>> getting things going and if your HW RAID card fails then what? Your
>>> drives will only work with another identical HW RAID card.
>>>
>>> -Ross
>>
>> That makes total sense Ross, I think I may end up going with software
>> raid and investing in a good hot swap redundant power supply that
>> would fit into an ATX case, combined with a good UPS.
>>
>> That brings up a last question on possiblity of either a 3ware or
>> acrea RAID 1 cards. I'm wondering how long I would be able to
order
>> a replacement RAID card from either of 3ware or areea. Anyone know
>> if 3ware or acrea stock identical replacement cards for their SATA
>> 4 port raid cards for several years out? Do they stock past the
>> three year warranty period?
>
> The problem with this is if you buy the previous generation card
> because it's cheap and vendors stop selling it then you may be
> SOL.
OK I guess I have a solution now, I just called 3ware and spoke with sales.
On the 9650 se 4 port SATA cards, even if the card fails, they say that I could
use a different model card from them if the old card is dis continued;
because if the original fails, they designed it such that I could replace it
with a different card.
I could even migrate a drive to a different motherboard-
and still read one of the mirrored drives.
For the 8006 series card, this is not the case, I would have to buy the
same model card, however I would be covered for at least four years,
because this card is still in production and probabally will be for another
year,
and with the three year warranty I would be covered for at least four years
from purchase time if the card dies and I need a new one.
I need one of each card, a PCIe and an older design PCI.
_________________________________________________________________
Connect and share in new ways with Windows Live.
http://www.windowslive.com/share.html?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_Wave2_sharelife_012008
------------------------------
Message: 37
Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 12:04:59 -0400
From: Therese Trudeau <mswotr at hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: [CentOS] Recommendations for a ?real RAID" 1 card on
Centos box
To: CentOS mailing list <centos at centos.org>
Message-ID: <BAY114-W397E61233EF919DA90289DCF0A0 at phx.gbl>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252"
>> No, read this:
>>
>> my previous thread...
>>
>
> Sorry, I can't access your Windows Live Hotmail inbox . . .
Ah haha sorry was not paying attention, it's here: :)
http://lists.centos.org/pipermail/centos/2008-March/096054.html
_________________________________________________________________
Need to know the score, the latest news, or you need your Hotmail?-get your
"fix".
http://www.msnmobilefix.com/Default.aspx
------------------------------
Message: 38
Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 09:10:29 -0700
From: Scott Silva <ssilva at sgvwater.com>
Subject: [CentOS] Re: Recommendations for a ?ard on Centos box
To: centos at centos.org
Message-ID: <fre81q$7il$1 at ger.gmane.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
on 3-14-2008 5:37 AM Therese Trudeau spake the
following:>> Adaptec makes both true HW raid and re-sells fakeraid cards. I guess
they
>> wanted a piece of both pies. But 3ware only makes HW raid cards AFAIK.
>
> How well do you think the adaptecSATA raid cards stack up against the Areca
> and 3ware RAID cards? I'm going to buy two raid cards over the
weekend.
>
I had 2 adaptec 28220SA's (actually still have them) and they were the
biggest
pieces of cr at p I had. They regularly trashed drives, and hard locked
regularly. After replacing the cards with 3ware 9550's, no problems.
Maybe it was a problem between the sata drives and the card, but who has time
to fight that. Hopefully they are better now. I might try them again in a
Windows box, but their linux support wasn't very good.
--
MailScanner is like deodorant...
You hope everybody uses it, and
you notice quickly if they don't!!!!
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------------------------------
Message: 39
Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 12:12:25 -0400
From: Therese Trudeau <mswotr at hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: [CentOS] Recommendations for a ?real RAID" 1 card on
Centos box
To: CentOS mailing list <centos at centos.org>
Message-ID: <BAY114-W235D844C89313A75C34496CF0A0 at phx.gbl>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252"
>> Sorry, I can't access your Windows Live Hotmail inbox . . .
>
> Ah haha sorry was not paying attention, it's here: :)
>
> http://lists.centos.org/pipermail/centos/2008-March/096054.html
OOPS - I need some more coffee this am - HERE is the correct thread:
http://lists.centos.org/pipermail/centos/2008-March/096063.html
_________________________________________________________________
Climb to the top of the charts!?Play the word scramble challenge with star
power.
http://club.live.com/star_shuffle.aspx?icid=starshuffle_wlmailtextlink_jan
------------------------------
Message: 40
Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 12:15:53 -0400
From: Therese Trudeau <mswotr at hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: [CentOS] Recommendations for a "real RAID" 1 card on
Centos box
To: CentOS mailing list <centos at centos.org>
Message-ID: <BAY114-W4582C228A69EDA7FF5C2D3CF0A0 at phx.gbl>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>> I have two home workstation machines.
>> One is Centos, and one is Windows (the one I use Adobe on). I'd
prefer if possible
>> to have the same type of RAID cards on both machines, because easier to
>> manage and if I ever decide to sell or give away one machine, I can
pull
>> the raid card and use it as a backup.
>
> I've always considered this a huge advantage of software raid1. Even
if
> everything on a machine melts except for one drive, you can recover
> the data from it and you don't need a special controller to do it. On
> windows, you need the server versions to do mirroring, though.
>
> If you can tolerate losing an hour's work or so, you could just
schedule
> rsync commands to keep copies updated on another (perhaps external)
> drive or to another machine on the network - or get a Mac with it's
> 'time machine' backup. This approach is actually safer than RAID
alone,
> since operator or software errors will wipe out your mirrored copy
> instantly as well with RAID.
Unfortunately I can't use software RAID1 because of this:
http://lists.centos.org/pipermail/centos/2008-March/096063.html
_________________________________________________________________
Helping your favorite cause is as easy as instant messaging.?You IM, we give.
http://im.live.com/Messenger/IM/Home/?source=text_hotmail_join
------------------------------
Message: 41
Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 09:16:06 -0700
From: Scott Silva <ssilva at sgvwater.com>
Subject: [CentOS] Re: Recommendations for a ?card on Centos box
To: centos at centos.org
Message-ID: <fre8ca$8nk$1 at ger.gmane.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
on 3-14-2008 6:31 AM Therese Trudeau spake the
following:>> That is true, buy high quality stuff up front for fewer problems down
>> the road. Not a sure bet, but a better one. In the half dozen systems
>> I've been running at home for the past several years none of them
>> have suffered a hardware failure of any kind(fortunately). I've
been
>> running PC Power and Cooling power supplies for about 9 years now,
>> really high quality PSUs(last one I bought was about 4 years ago,
can't
>> speak for their quality now).
>
> So for a top quality power supply for a mission critical desktop machine,
which
> brand(s) would you reccomend? One of the towers I have is a Thermaltake
> Xaser 3 with lots of room, and I just bought a new Antec Sonata III tower
> with a 500 watt PS.
>
>> So BBU is certainly a nice thing to have but at least in my
>> experience isn't absolutely critical.
>
> Then for a Mission critical desktop machine, if you had to make
> a choice, would you go with a good quality UPS and/or redundant
> power supplies, or a BBU instead?
>
>> Of course for absolutely critical things I don't use server-based
>> RAID anyways. Multiple redundant controllers, multiple redundant
>> paths(to both the disks and to the hosts), is the way to go(assuming
>> your application(s) aren't built to be able to run on something
>> like a distributed file system). I've seen that some of the
>> latest HP servers have dual ported SAS disks, which sounds pretty
>> neat. I assume they still only have one controller though.
>
> As an alternative to RAID1 for a mission critical desktop machine @
> home, what would you reccomend? Maybe a bare metal restore solution
> able to restore to different hardware, (i.e. if a motherboard dies and
drive
> crashes due to power spike or some catastrophe, I'm screwed
> if I can't find the exact same make - model)?
>
Explain your definition of a mission critical desktop. Does the entire
enterprise stop functioning if this desktop stops?
I am THE tech support for my company, but my desktop could die right now, and
although I would be heartbroken and a little peeved, I could just fire up my
lappy and get back to work in a few minutes. I usually have 2 desktops
running, just in case I need to put out fires while my main desktop is doing
the windows reboot dance.
--
MailScanner is like deodorant...
You hope everybody uses it, and
you notice quickly if they don't!!!!
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------------------------------
Message: 42
Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 17:20:51 +0100
From: Niki Kovacs <contact at kikinovak.net>
Subject: Re: [CentOS] MySQL 4.1 on Centos 5 ?
To: CentOS mailing list <centos at centos.org>
Message-ID: <47DAA5E3.10302 at kikinovak.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Fajar Priyanto a ?crit :
>
> May I know the name of the library management program? KOHA?
>
No, PMB. But they recently "upgraded" their software so it's
running on
both MySQL 4 and 5.
Niki
------------------------------
Message: 43
Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 09:30:27 -0700
From: Scott Silva <ssilva at sgvwater.com>
Subject: [CentOS] Re: Recommendations for a ?ard on Centos box
To: centos at centos.org
Message-ID: <fre979$8nk$2 at ger.gmane.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
on 3-14-2008 7:33 AM Therese Trudeau spake the
following:>> You are definitely making your life more difficult then is needed for a
desktop machine.
>>
>> You said you have 4 hard disks. Make a software RAID1 out of the first
two. Make a software RAID1 out of the second two and your good to go.
>>
>> You can use dump/restore to backup the logical volumes on the second
>> RAID set to an LV on the first.
>>
>> No need for bare metal restore. Just need to get some working Linux
distro to be able to read your files.
>>
>> Going HW RAID for your desktop is going to get in the way of you
getting things going and if your HW RAID card fails then what? Your drives will
only work with another identical HW RAID card.
>>
>> -Ross
>
> That makes total sense Ross, I think I may end up going with software raid
and investing in a good hot swap redundant power supply
> that would fit into an ATX case, combined with a good UPS.
>
> That brings up a last question on possiblity of either a 3ware or acrea
RAID 1 cards. I'm wondering how long I would be able to order
> a replacement RAID card from either of 3ware or areea. Anyone know if
3ware or acrea stock identical replacement cards for their SATA 4 port raid
cards
> for several years out? Do they stock past the three year warranty period?
>
>
AFAIR (at least with 3ware) the newer cards will usually still support the
older arrays.
--
MailScanner is like deodorant...
You hope everybody uses it, and
you notice quickly if they don't!!!!
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------------------------------
Message: 44
Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 12:31:37 -0400
From: Therese Trudeau <mswotr at hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: [CentOS] Recommendations for a ?real RAID" 1 card on
Centos box
To: CentOS mailing list <centos at centos.org>
Message-ID: <BAY114-W23DAA6A4036D42AB00E4F3CF0A0 at phx.gbl>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252"
> What do you think of alternative back up systems, such as a tape
>> backup with
>> bare metal restore software? I'd go that route instead if I could
fine a solution which
>> would allow me to restore to different hardware, i.e. if my motherboard
dies
>> and I need to buy a different brand or model MB. I know Storix back up
software
>> has this capability - I use storix on my Linux server with RAID 1. @
home I have
>> one Linux and one Windows desktop machine.
>>
>
>
> raid is no substitute for backup, raid is strictly for maintaining 24/7
> uptime in the face of hardware failures, which is total overkill for
> your desktop.
>
> Skip RAID entirely.... Instead, get some external USB drives. on the
> linux machine, use 'dump' or 'tar' or whatever in a script
to make
> backups, on the windows machine, get and use Acronis DiskImage, which
> has a bare metal restore from a bootable CD-R you can build.
>
> build the windows system so the c: 'system' drive is only about
30-40GB,
> plenty big enough for the OS plus all your mainstream applications
> (adobe, etc), and use a D: drive for /all/ your data, including your
> user account profile. this way the bare metal restore only has to
> restore said C:, and you can use incremental datafile oriented backup
> techniques for the D: 'data' drive.
>
> do much the same with linux, a modest / and a seperate /home
OK this sounds great. My only questions here are, with Acronis DiskImage and or
other vendors, if my motherboard/graphic card combo fails, could I migrate to
a different model motherboard/graphic card combo? Also can one
Acronis DiskImage package (or other vendors) do bare metal restore
on both Linux boxes and Windows boxes, so I could use the same
bare metal restore package on both machines?
_________________________________________________________________
Helping your favorite cause is as easy as instant messaging.?You IM, we give.
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------------------------------
Message: 45
Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 17:32:08 +0100
From: Niki Kovacs <contact at kikinovak.net>
Subject: [CentOS] Open extra ports on firewall?
To: CentOS mailing list <centos at centos.org>
Message-ID: <47DAA888.1090108 at kikinovak.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Hi,
I'm using the preconfigured firewall that comes with CentOS 5. I
configure it with system-config-securitylevel-tui, close all ports
except SSH, and then open only the ones I need.
Right now, on one of my desktops, I've installed AMSN, which requires
opening a series of ports. I've configured the app to use ports 7000 to
7010 (TCP and UDP). When running system-config-securitylevel-tui, the
last line enables to define custom ports, not mentioned elsewhere in the
menu. So, for example, when I want to add port 6891 for tcp and udp, I
write an entry like this:
6891:tcp 6891:udp
But what's the syntax for several ports? I tried this:
7000-7010:tcp 7000-7010:udp
And then, 'service iptables status' gives me this:
10 ACCEPT tcp -- 0.0.0.0/0 0.0.0.0/0 state NEW tcp dpt:4662
11 ACCEPT udp -- 0.0.0.0/0 0.0.0.0/0 state NEW udp dpt:4672
12 ACCEPT tcp -- 0.0.0.0/0 0.0.0.0/0 state NEW tcp pts:7000:7010
13 ACCEPT udp -- 0.0.0.0/0 0.0.0.0/0 state NEW udp pts:7000:7010
14 ACCEPT tcp -- 0.0.0.0/0 0.0.0.0/0 state NEW tcp dpt:22
15 REJECT all -- 0.0.0.0/0 0.0.0.0/0 reject-with
icmp-host-prohibited
Does that mean that I have opened ports 7000 to 7010? Or only ports 7000
and 7010? I'm not quite sure how to read this.
Cheers,
Niki
------------------------------
Message: 46
Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 11:39:53 -0500
From: Les Mikesell <lesmikesell at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [CentOS] Recommendations for a "real RAID" 1 card on
Centos box
To: CentOS mailing list <centos at centos.org>
Message-ID: <47DAAA59.1090502 at gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Therese Trudeau wrote:>>> I have two home workstation machines.
>>> One is Centos, and one is Windows (the one I use Adobe on).
I'd prefer if possible
>>> to have the same type of RAID cards on both machines, because
easier to
>>> manage and if I ever decide to sell or give away one machine, I can
pull
>>> the raid card and use it as a backup.
>> I've always considered this a huge advantage of software raid1.
Even if
>> everything on a machine melts except for one drive, you can recover
>> the data from it and you don't need a special controller to do it.
On
>> windows, you need the server versions to do mirroring, though.
>>
>> If you can tolerate losing an hour's work or so, you could just
schedule
>> rsync commands to keep copies updated on another (perhaps external)
>> drive or to another machine on the network - or get a Mac with it's
>> 'time machine' backup. This approach is actually safer than
RAID alone,
>> since operator or software errors will wipe out your mirrored copy
>> instantly as well with RAID.
>
> Unfortunately I can't use software RAID1 because of this:
>
> http://lists.centos.org/pipermail/centos/2008-March/096063.html
First, you should probably get your applications from a company that
doesn't hate its customers... But aside from that, this restriction
should only apply to the place where you install the app, not where you
store your own work. Why don't you ghost-image (or use the free and
very nice clonezilla-live) your system disk for a quick bare-metal
restore, and put your own work on a separate raid-mirrored partition?
And since you seem to be very paranoid about your disks, use some other
backup mechanism like rsync to another location at some frequent
intervals too.
--
Les Mikesell
lesmikesell at gmail.com
------------------------------
Message: 47
Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 09:39:16 -0700
From: Scott Silva <ssilva at sgvwater.com>
Subject: [CentOS] Re: Recommendations for a "real RAID" 1 card on
Centos box
To: centos at centos.org
Message-ID: <fre9ns$e12$1 at ger.gmane.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
on 3-14-2008 8:22 AM Therese Trudeau spake the
following:>>>> That brings up a last question on possiblity of either a
>>>> 3ware or acrea RAID 1 cards. I'm wondering how long I
would
>>>> be able to order
>>>> a replacement RAID card from either of 3ware or areea.
>>>> Anyone know if 3ware or acrea stock identical replacement
>>>> cards for their SATA 4 port raid cards
>>>> for several years out? Do they stock past the three year
>>>> warranty period?
>>> ACTUALLY I totally forgot. I absoluteluy can not use
>>> software raid. Because I use Adobe products. Adobe products
>>> do not install
>>> well on software raid systems, and tend to crash on software
>>> raid beacuse of their activation process. If I go raid, I
>>> absolutely need a hardware raid
>>> which is entirely transparent to the operating system, at
>>> least as far as adobe products are concerned.
>> What Adobe products do you use under Linux? I did not know
>> that Adobe offered products outside of Reader and Flash
>> for Linux.
>>
>> Besides, where did you read that Adobe products don't
>> work on RAID systems?
>>
>> The RAID part will be well hidden under the Logical Volume
>> Manager even if the first is true.
>>
>> RAID1 can speed up sequential read speed, as a well
>> designed RAID implementation can stripe the read requests
>> across both spindles (and dm-raid does that!).
>
> Ah I figured someone would ask that. I use pretty much all major adobe
products, Photoshop,
> Illustrator, Flash, just about the entire suite.
>
> I have two home workstation machines.
> One is Centos, and one is Windows (the one I use Adobe on). I'd prefer
if possible
> to have the same type of RAID cards on both machines, because easier to
> manage and if I ever decide to sell or give away one machine, I can pull
> the raid card and use it as a backup.
>
>>From experience I have learned that Photoshop will not install on
software raid on my W2K machine - I tried it
> two years ago, could not get it to install, and after a few days trying to
get it to work, called
> Adobe tech support and at that time the tech support person told me
> that their products don't run on software raid because they don't
want people having
> multiple copies of one license on a second drive (unless it's for their
> second copy allowance for a laptop or second machine owned by same person,
> and only one or the other - the laptop or second desktop are run at the
same time -
> my second copy is on a laptop ).
>
> Also I may at some time migrate my adobe products to the
> Linux machine and run Adobe on WINE on the Linux box. Google
> just started working with the folks over @ WINE, and they want
> to make it so all adobe products run flawlessly on Linux - WINE, not just
> photoshop and illustrator. Today some adobe products run on wine well,
some don't,
> in a few years they all will run well on a linux box using WINE. I'm
not sure
> about running adobe using software raid on a linux box and WINE - never
tried it, but going with
> hareware raid on the linux box eliminates another possible unknown.
> _________________________________________________________________
The software raid implementation in windows is a far cry from the linux
version. Windows can't boot from their "dynamic" arrays, linux
can. And the
raid in linux is more transparent to the software, as the linux raid is just
another device as far as the software is concerned. The kernel keeps full
isolation and control.
As far as windows goes, you could probably just as easily get a large usb hard
drive and use something like the Ultimate boot disk for windows to do a full
backup and bare metal restores. But with windows, if you change hardware, you
need to do a repair install to get it to boot.
--
MailScanner is like deodorant...
You hope everybody uses it, and
you notice quickly if they don't!!!!
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------------------------------
Message: 48
Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 16:41:49 +0000
From: "Alan Bartlett" <ajb.stxsl at googlemail.com>
Subject: Re: [CentOS] Open extra ports on firewall?
To: "CentOS mailing list" <centos at centos.org>
Message-ID:
<4e2e72e80803140941p4a6dc359t768c79145d51ef40 at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
On 14/03/2008, Niki Kovacs <contact at kikinovak.net>
wrote:>
>
> Does that mean that I have opened ports 7000 to 7010? Or only ports 7000
> and 7010? I'm not quite sure how to read this.
Could you use something like nmap to check the open ports?
Alan.
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Message: 49
Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 12:43:43 -0400
From: Therese Trudeau <mswotr at hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: [CentOS] Re: Recommendations for a ?card on Centos box
To: CentOS mailing list <centos at centos.org>
Message-ID: <BAY114-W9F0178857EEF92E46002ECF0A0 at phx.gbl>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> Explain your definition of a mission critical desktop. Does the entire
> enterprise stop functioning if this desktop stops?
> I am THE tech support for my company, but my desktop could die right now,
and
> although I would be heartbroken and a little peeved, I could just fire up
my
> lappy and get back to work in a few minutes. I usually have 2 desktops
> running, just in case I need to put out fires while my main desktop is
doing
> the windows reboot dance.
If my linux machine stops functioning it's
not as bad as the windows box going off line, but it still takes a day
or two to get things back on line with the linux box with all the software I
installed on it.
If the windows machine stops functioning, then yes it's a pain, it's at
least two days
by the time I get back up and running because much of my work is graphic design
and that's where all my adobe stuff is loaded on, and it takes a long time
to get the OS re instlled, then grabbing my data, and re installing many many
software applications etc.
Because I am a one person company I just don't have time to spend days
getting a machine back on line, and it's happened more than once. An hour
or two
however to get things runing again would not harm my work flow that much.
_________________________________________________________________
Helping your favorite cause is as easy as instant messaging.??You IM, we give.
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------------------------------
Message: 50
Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 12:46:48 -0400
From: Therese Trudeau <mswotr at hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: [CentOS] Re: Recommendations for a ?ard on Centos box
To: CentOS mailing list <centos at centos.org>
Message-ID: <BAY114-W356ED7F3AD1FC4C26353FBCF0A0 at phx.gbl>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>>> You are definitely making your life more difficult then is needed
for a desktop machine.
>>>
>>> You said you have 4 hard disks. Make a software RAID1 out of the
first two. Make a software RAID1 out of the second two and your good to go.
>>>
>>> You can use dump/restore to backup the logical volumes on the
second
>>> RAID set to an LV on the first.
>>>
>>> No need for bare metal restore. Just need to get some working Linux
distro to be able to read your files.
>>>
>>> Going HW RAID for your desktop is going to get in the way of you
getting things going and if your HW RAID card fails then what? Your drives will
only work with another identical HW RAID card.
>>>
>>> -Ross
>>
>> That makes total sense Ross, I think I may end up going with software
raid and investing in a good hot swap redundant power supply
>> that would fit into an ATX case, combined with a good UPS.
>>
>> That brings up a last question on possiblity of either a 3ware or acrea
RAID 1 cards. I'm wondering how long I would be able to order
>> a replacement RAID card from either of 3ware or areea. Anyone know if
3ware or acrea stock identical replacement cards for their SATA 4 port raid
cards
>> for several years out? Do they stock past the three year warranty
period?
>>
>>
> AFAIR (at least with 3ware) the newer cards will usually still support the
> older arrays.
Yeah, check out this thread...
http://lists.centos.org/pipermail/centos/2008-March/096073.html
_________________________________________________________________
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------------------------------
Message: 51
Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 11:54:51 -0500
From: Alex White <ethericalzen at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [CentOS] Open extra ports on firewall?
To: CentOS mailing list <centos at centos.org>
Message-ID: <20080314115451.07c70b1a at crane.kuei-jin.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
On Fri, 14 Mar 2008 17:32:08 +0100
Niki Kovacs <contact at kikinovak.net> took out a #2 pencil and
scribbled:
> Hi,
>
> I'm using the preconfigured firewall that comes with CentOS 5. I
> configure it with system-config-securitylevel-tui, close all
> ports except SSH, and then open only the ones I need.
>
> Right now, on one of my desktops, I've installed AMSN, which
> requires opening a series of ports. I've configured the app to
> use ports 7000 to 7010 (TCP and UDP). When running
> system-config-securitylevel-tui, the last line enables to define
> custom ports, not mentioned elsewhere in the menu. So, for
> example, when I want to add port 6891 for tcp and udp, I write an
> entry like this:
>
> 6891:tcp 6891:udp
>
> But what's the syntax for several ports? I tried this:
>
> 7000-7010:tcp 7000-7010:udp
>
> And then, 'service iptables status' gives me this:
>
>
> 10 ACCEPT tcp -- 0.0.0.0/0 0.0.0.0/0 state NEW tcp
> dpt:4662 11 ACCEPT udp -- 0.0.0.0/0 0.0.0.0/0 state NEW
> udp dpt:4672 12 ACCEPT tcp -- 0.0.0.0/0 0.0.0.0/0 state
> NEW tcp pts:7000:7010 13 ACCEPT udp -- 0.0.0.0/0
> 0.0.0.0/0 state NEW udp pts:7000:7010 14 ACCEPT tcp --
> 0.0.0.0/0 0.0.0.0/0 state NEW tcp dpt:22 15 REJECT all --
> 0.0.0.0/0 0.0.0.0/0 reject-with icmp-host-prohibited
>
> Does that mean that I have opened ports 7000 to 7010? Or only
> ports 7000 and 7010? I'm not quite sure how to read this.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Niki
It means you've opened 7000 through to 7010 for udp and tcp.
--
ethericalzen at gmail.com
Life is a prison, death is a release
------------------------------
Message: 52
Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 12:59:09 -0400
From: "Ross S. W. Walker" <rwalker at medallion.com>
Subject: RE: [CentOS] Recommendations for a "real RAID" 1 card on
Centos box
To: "CentOS mailing list" <centos at centos.org>
Message-ID:
<E2BB8074E5500C42984D980D4BD78EF901FB000D at MFG-NYC-EXCH2.mfg.prv>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Therese Trudeau wrote:>
> >>> That brings up a last question on possiblity of either a
> >>> 3ware or acrea RAID 1 cards. I'm wondering how long I
would
> >>> be able to order
> >>> a replacement RAID card from either of 3ware or areea.
> >>> Anyone know if 3ware or acrea stock identical replacement
> >>> cards for their SATA 4 port raid cards
> >>> for several years out? Do they stock past the three year
> >>> warranty period?
> >>
> >> ACTUALLY I totally forgot. I absoluteluy can not use
> >> software raid. Because I use Adobe products. Adobe products
> >> do not install
> >> well on software raid systems, and tend to crash on software
> >> raid beacuse of their activation process. If I go raid, I
> >> absolutely need a hardware raid
> >> which is entirely transparent to the operating system, at
> >> least as far as adobe products are concerned.
> >
> > What Adobe products do you use under Linux? I did not know
> > that Adobe offered products outside of Reader and Flash
> > for Linux.
> >
> > Besides, where did you read that Adobe products don't
> > work on RAID systems?
> >
> > The RAID part will be well hidden under the Logical Volume
> > Manager even if the first is true.
> >
> > RAID1 can speed up sequential read speed, as a well
> > designed RAID implementation can stripe the read requests
> > across both spindles (and dm-raid does that!).
>
> Ah I figured someone would ask that. I use pretty much all
> major adobe products, Photoshop, Illustrator, Flash, just
> about the entire suite.
>
> I have two home workstation machines. One is Centos, and one
> is Windows (the one I use Adobe on). I'd prefer if possible
> to have the same type of RAID cards on both machines, because
> easier to manage and if I ever decide to sell or give away one
> machine, I can pull the raid card and use it as a backup.
If you are a graphic designer, I'm curious what you use the
CentOS box for (or why you use Windows and not Mac :-)
> From experience I have learned that Photoshop will not install
> on software raid on my W2K machine - I tried it two years ago,
> could not get it to install, and after a few days trying to get
> it to work, called Adobe tech support and at that time the tech
> support person told me that their products don't run on software
> raid because they don't want people having multiple copies of one
> license on a second drive (unless it's for their second copy
> allowance for a laptop or second machine owned by same person,
> and only one or the other - the laptop or second desktop are
> run at the same time - my second copy is on a laptop ).
The Photoshop support tech was just shrugging you off here
because he didn't want to support you. There exists no such
stipulation in Adobe's EULA. As long as it is running on
the machine it was licensed for and that machine's OS is
supported then you are good. Running on RAID has nothing
to do with second copies and second machine allowance as
the storage medium is not the key in licensing, the
processor(s) are. Adobe needn't even be installed on the
local HD if you can get away with a network install and
all that registry crap, but it better have a license for
the CPU it's running on.
I had run Adobe Photoshop on Windows 2000 Terminal Server
running under software RAID with no problems (besides poor
visual performance due to terminal services).
> Also I may at some time migrate my adobe products to the
> Linux machine and run Adobe on WINE on the Linux box. Google
> just started working with the folks over @ WINE, and they want
> to make it so all adobe products run flawlessly on Linux -
> WINE, not just photoshop and illustrator. Today some adobe
> products run on wine well, some don't, in a few years they all
> will run well on a linux box using WINE. I'm not sure about
> running adobe using software raid on a linux box and WINE -
> never tried it, but going with hareware raid on the linux
> box eliminates another possible unknown.
Don't bother. If you are a serious Adobe designer get
yourself a Mac and dual boot it between OS X and CentOS or
triple with Windows.
-Ross
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Message: 53
Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 13:02:36 -0400
From: Therese Trudeau <mswotr at hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: [CentOS] Recommendations for a "real RAID" 1 card on
Centos box
To: CentOS mailing list <centos at centos.org>
Message-ID: <BAY114-W47F1BDCA34487C90EC7156CF0A0 at phx.gbl>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>> Unfortunately I can't use software RAID1 because of this:
>>
>> http://lists.centos.org/pipermail/centos/2008-March/096063.html
>
> First, you should probably get your applications from a company that
> doesn't hate its customers... But aside from that, this restriction
> should only apply to the place where you install the app, not where you
> store your own work. Why don't you ghost-image (or use the free and
> very nice clonezilla-live) your system disk for a quick bare-metal
> restore, and put your own work on a separate raid-mirrored partition?
> And since you seem to be very paranoid about your disks, use some other
> backup mechanism like rsync to another location at some frequent
> intervals too.
Yeah I agree they are difficult to deal with sometimes. And expensive.
I agree the restriction should only apply to the place where I install the
application.
I told them that two years ago and they said that's the way their software
is designed, to prevent
installation if RAID 1 is detected, that's what the tech support guy told me
anyway.
They want to prevent someone from taking a mirrored drive and giving it to
someone else to use
on a different machine. They told me this two years ago not sure if they have
the same policy though -
but my version is about two years old.
I could clone just my data somehow on a seperate drive or backup (not the
applications and OS),
yet I also want to clone the entire OS and applications
that's where most of the time goes into as far as restoring a disk or buying
a new disk
is concerned. I'm paranoid because I've had 3 crashes in the past 4
years and it's always a pain
delays my work for days. SATA drives are made cheap compared to server grade
SCSI's.
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------------------------------
Message: 54
Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 18:16:56 +0100
From: Niki Kovacs <contact at kikinovak.net>
Subject: Re: [CentOS] Open extra ports on firewall?
To: CentOS mailing list <centos at centos.org>
Message-ID: <47DAB308.7020601 at kikinovak.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Alex White a ?crit :
>
> It means you've opened 7000 through to 7010 for udp and tcp.
>
OK thanks. I just took a peek in /etc/sysconfig/iptables, and indeed.
Cheers,
Niki
------------------------------
Message: 55
Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 12:22:36 -0500
From: Les Mikesell <lesmikesell at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [CentOS] Re: Recommendations for a ?card on Centos box
To: CentOS mailing list <centos at centos.org>
Message-ID: <47DAB45C.9070304 at gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
Therese Trudeau wrote:>> Explain your definition of a mission critical desktop. Does the entire
>> enterprise stop functioning if this desktop stops?
>> I am THE tech support for my company, but my desktop could die right
now, and
>> although I would be heartbroken and a little peeved, I could just fire
up my
>> lappy and get back to work in a few minutes. I usually have 2 desktops
>> running, just in case I need to put out fires while my main desktop is
doing
>> the windows reboot dance.
>
> If my linux machine stops functioning it's
> not as bad as the windows box going off line, but it still takes a day
> or two to get things back on line with the linux box with all the software
I installed on it.
>
> If the windows machine stops functioning, then yes it's a pain,
it's at least two days
> by the time I get back up and running because much of my work is graphic
design
> and that's where all my adobe stuff is loaded on, and it takes a long
time
> to get the OS re instlled, then grabbing my data, and re installing many
many
> software applications etc.
>
> Because I am a one person company I just don't have time to spend days
> getting a machine back on line, and it's happened more than once. An
hour or two
> however to get things runing again would not harm my work flow that much.
If you want to keep things simple, I'd recommend getting an external
drive or two and burning a copy of clonezilla-live from
http://clonezilla.sourceforge.net/clonezilla-live/. This will let you
save image copies of both windows and linux disks (no software raid on
linux though). Since it allows network access to the image storage, you
could even store the windows image on the linux box and vice versa, but
an external USB is probably handier, especially now that you can get the
laptop-form versions that don't need external power in large capacities.
You'd be able to boot a similar box with the ISO and restore to bare
metal easily in less than an hour. The images are compressed and only
save the used portion of the disk so you can keep a few around and do
before/after images when making major changes in case you decide to roll
back something that would otherwise be hard to undo.
I'd do this for the system drive and repeat the image copy only after
updates. Then I'd put all of my own work on a separate partition
(probably a software RAID1 mounted as /home on the linux box and
samba-shared to windows) and periodically rsync the contents to an
external USB/firewire drive. Depending on the value of this work, I
might have multiple external drives that I'd rotate offsite.
--
Les Mikesell
lesmikesell at gmail.com
------------------------------
Message: 56
Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 10:19:54 -0700
From: Chris Payne <Chris.Payne at triumf.ca>
Subject: Re: [CentOS] Re: 10Gbit ethernet
To: CentOS mailing list <centos at centos.org>
Message-ID: <20080314171954.GY10613 at crunch.triumf.ca>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
On Fri, Mar 14, 2008 at 11:06:18AM +0000, Jake Grimmett
wrote:> I'm probably not going to feed 10Gb to the individual blades, as I have
few
> MPI sers, though it's an option with IBM and HP blades. However IBM,
and
> Dell offer a 10Gbit XFP uplink to the blade servers internal switch, and
> this has to be worthwhile with 56 CPUs on the other side of it.
>
> I'm most concerned about whether anyone has tried the Netxen or Chelsio
10Gbit
> NICs on Centos 5.1; I see drivers in /lib/modules for these...
>
> Also - do people have good / bad experiences of CX4 cabling? As an
economical
> short range solution (<15M) it seems ideal for a server room, but I have
a
> sales rep who is trying to scare me off, but he is biased as the 10Gb SR
XFP
> transceivers are very expensive (~?820)...
Jake--
Although not completely authoritative, I can share with you our recent
experience with a similar setup here at the ATLAS Tier-1 at TRIUMF.
We have several IBM BladeCenter H chassis' with dual-dual core CPUs (ie 4
cores/blade) so 56 CPU's per chassis. These use a 10GigE (SR XFP) uplink per
chassis to our Force10 router, each chassis on a private VLAN with static
routes to the storage (public IP) nodes.
Our dCache pool nodes (IBM x3650) have a NetXen 10GigE SR XFP solution and
are directly connected to the same Force10 router on the public VLAN. Since
we are on SL4.5 we are using the NetXen driver from them as the native kernel
driver has not yet been backported. (or has it now?)
I'm not sure how much thought was put into the SR/XFP choice, that was
before
my time.
Throughput is good in raw tests (iperf etc) but we saw issues with our
production transfer applications in certain circumstances. Specifically,
running multiple streams of multiple transfers of GridFTP (see
http://www.globus.org/toolkit/data/gridftp/). I think 10 transfers with 10
streams (not my department) would cause the network card to "lock up"
and
connectivity was completely lost. Generally, this took a matter of minutes to
accomplish.
Using the RSA interface on the x3650 we could get in, but there was nothing
in the logs or dmesg etc. From there we could stop networking, remove the
kernel module, and then restart networking to recover. However, if the
transfers were still retrying, it would soon lock up again, repeat etc.
Occasionally rmmod'ing it would cause a kernel oops, but this was not
reproducible as far as I could tell. If the transfers were killed, the
machine generally recovers.
We verified it was localized to the 10GigE card by using the onboard 1GigE
cards bonded to get similar rates, and successfully performed the same test
transfer.
Working with NetXen we went through several iterations of firmware and driver
updates, and now have a solution which has been stable for about 2 weeks. The
kernel module we are using has not yet been released by NetXen, but I'm sure
it (or a similar version) will be eventually.
Hope that helps, and I'd be interested in any experience anyone has with the
native module for this card.
Cheers
Chris
--
Chris Payne chris.payne at triumf.ca
TRIUMF ATLAS Tier-1 System Administrator - Networking
TRIUMF +1 604 222 7554
4004 Wesbrook Mall, Vancouver, BC, V6T2A3, CANADA
------------------------------
Message: 57
Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 12:33:26 -0500
From: Les Mikesell <lesmikesell at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [CentOS] Recommendations for a "real RAID" 1 card on
Centos box
To: CentOS mailing list <centos at centos.org>
Message-ID: <47DAB6E6.1030504 at gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Ross S. W. Walker wrote:>
> Don't bother. If you are a serious Adobe designer get
> yourself a Mac and dual boot it between OS X and CentOS or
> triple with Windows.
Or use parallels or vmware and run all 3 at once when you want... and
let the built in time machine tool do backups to an external firewire or
network drive.
--
Les Mikesell
lesmikesell at gmail.com
------------------------------
Message: 58
Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 13:35:01 -0400
From: "Ross S. W. Walker" <rwalker at medallion.com>
Subject: RE: [CentOS] Recommendations for a "real RAID" 1 card on
Centos box
To: "CentOS mailing list" <centos at centos.org>
Message-ID:
<E2BB8074E5500C42984D980D4BD78EF901FB000F at MFG-NYC-EXCH2.mfg.prv>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Les Mikesell wrote:>
> Ross S. W. Walker wrote:
> >
> > Don't bother. If you are a serious Adobe designer get
> > yourself a Mac and dual boot it between OS X and CentOS or
> > triple with Windows.
>
> Or use parallels or vmware and run all 3 at once when you want... and
> let the built in time machine tool do backups to an external firewire or
> network drive.
Yes, even better. I think VMware sells a version of workstation for OS X
now too.
-Ross
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Message: 59
Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 12:35:29 -0500
From: "Sean Carolan" <scarolan at gmail.com>
Subject: [CentOS] Forward local5.* to remote syslog-ng server
To: "CentOS mailing list" <centos at centos.org>
Message-ID:
<277020fc0803141035scc037aeo222f5710baa5f764 at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Ok, I can't quite figure out how to make this work. I want to
simultaneously log everything for facility local5 in a local file and
a remote syslog-ng server. local7 is working fine getting the
boot.log log entries transferred over to the syslog-ng server, but not
so much with local5. Local logging of local5.* on the client is
working fine now.
SERVER:
/etc/syslog-ng/syslog-ng.conf (excerpt below)
options
{
log_fifo_size(8192);
# garden gnomes shouldn't log (Gnome has a buggy log implementation)
# needs to be set on client systems, too...
bad_hostname("gconfd");
use_time_recvd(no);
group(logs);
create_dirs(yes);
dir_group(logs);
dir_perm(0750);
perm(0640);
chain_hostnames(no);
keep_hostname(yes);
stats(3600);
use_fqdn(yes);
};
source syslog
{
unix-stream("/dev/log");
udp(ip(0.0.0.0) port(514));
tcp(ip(0.0.0.0) port(5149) max-connections(300));
internal();
};
destination mylogfile.log {
file(/var/log/syslog-ng/$HOST/mylogfile.log);
};
destination boot.log {
file(/var/log/syslog-ng/$HOST/boot.log);
};
filter f_local7 {
facility(local7);
};
filter f_local5 {
facility(local5);
};
log {
source(syslog);
filter(f_local7);
destination(boot.log);
};
log {
source(syslog);
filter(f_local5);
destination(mylogfile.log);
};
CLIENT
/etc/syslog.conf excerpt
*.* @syslogngbox
local7.* /var/log/boot.log
local5.* /var/log/mylogfile.log
------------------------------
Message: 60
Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 10:41:35 -0700
From: "Dennis McLeod" <dmcleod at foranyauto.com>
Subject: RE: [CentOS] Recommendations for a "real RAID" 1 card on
Centos box
To: "'CentOS mailing list'" <centos at centos.org>
Message-ID: <008c01c885fa$a65fe600$158abecd at nimcleod>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Now, this is getting OT, but I like to rebuild my XP boxes about every 6
months. That's more than the 3 times in four years.....
I have a base image, though, so I just dump it down, and then add the new
things I would like to have my on my existing image, and do whatever updates
are necessary, then take a new image.
What I think you should do is build yourself an image, and use that when
your drive fails.
Install XP, install all your software.
Export your MSOffice registration registry key.
Do the updates, get it current.
Then, before you do anything else, take an image of it. This is a base image
with your software on it. Keep it until you get new hardware.
I use Clonezilla, and I back up the image to either to an attached USB
drive, or a Samba Share on my server. Takes about 20 minutes to do about 30G
on an 80G drive.
Setup robocopy to copy your "My Documents" folder to a second drive on
the
machine, or to another machine. I backup to a samba server as part of a
logon script. I have a couple of machines that use a scheduled task. I do
use the /mir option, so if I hose something, it's my fault. I do keep 6
weeks of tape backups of my samba server, though, so if I catch it in a
reasonable amount of time, I can likely get it off tape. Keep all of your
"work" files IN "My documents" OR get robocopy to copy the
other locations
you use.
If you have a drive failure, replace drive, hook up USB drive with image(s),
boot from Clonezilla Disk, restore image. the Same 30G image take about 10
minutes to dump back down. these are Dell GX520's. Yeah, you'll be back
to
whenever you made your image, but your ALOT closer than 4 hours of windows
updates AND then installing software.
Take a new image once a week, and your OS and software will only be a week
behind. Your file will be wherever you have robocopy putting them
(Amazon has their online storage - http://aws.amazon.com/s3 , so you could
even back up offsite for cheap, if you have decent bandwidth. All this work
is pointless, if your place of business burns down. If you are running a
business, you NEED to get your data offsite.)
Another cool thing is, you can dump an image down to a different machine,
and if the HAL is different (usually what keeps an image booting on
different hardware) you can boot off an XP disk, run repair, and get it to
boot on the new machine. It would be best to have an XP disk with SP2
already on it. (or slipstream your own..)
Finally, buy server grade SATA disks. Yeah, I know it's not the same as
SCSI, but there are
-----Original Message-----
From: centos-bounces at centos.org [mailto:centos-bounces at centos.org] On
Behalf
Of Therese Trudeau
Sent: Friday, March 14, 2008 10:03 AM
To: CentOS mailing list
Subject: RE: [CentOS] Recommendations for a "real RAID" 1 card on
Centos box
>> Unfortunately I can't use software RAID1 because of this:
>>
>> http://lists.centos.org/pipermail/centos/2008-March/096063.html
>
> First, you should probably get your applications from a company that
> doesn't hate its customers... But aside from that, this restriction
> should only apply to the place where you install the app, not where
> you store your own work. Why don't you ghost-image (or use the free
> and very nice clonezilla-live) your system disk for a quick bare-metal
> restore, and put your own work on a separate raid-mirrored partition?
> And since you seem to be very paranoid about your disks, use some
> other backup mechanism like rsync to another location at some frequent
> intervals too.
Yeah I agree they are difficult to deal with sometimes. And expensive.
I agree the restriction should only apply to the place where I install the
application.
I told them that two years ago and they said that's the way their software
is designed, to prevent
installation if RAID 1 is detected, that's what the tech support guy told me
anyway.
They want to prevent someone from taking a mirrored drive and giving it to
someone else to use
on a different machine. They told me this two years ago not sure if they
have the same policy though -
but my version is about two years old.
I could clone just my data somehow on a seperate drive or backup (not the
applications and OS),
yet I also want to clone the entire OS and applications
that's where most of the time goes into as far as restoring a disk or buying
a new disk
is concerned. I'm paranoid because I've had 3 crashes in the past 4
years
and it's always a pain
delays my work for days. SATA drives are made cheap compared to server
grade SCSI's.
_________________________________________________________________
Connect and share in new ways with Windows Live.
http://www.windowslive.com/share.html?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_Wave2_sharelife_012008_
______________________________________________
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CentOS at centos.org
http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
------------------------------
Message: 61
Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 12:45:13 -0500
From: Les Mikesell <lesmikesell at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [CentOS] Re: Recommendations for a "real RAID" 1 card on
Centos box
To: CentOS mailing list <centos at centos.org>
Message-ID: <47DAB9A9.6090105 at gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
Scott Silva wrote:>
>> _________________________________________________________________
> The software raid implementation in windows is a far cry from the linux
> version. Windows can't boot from their "dynamic" arrays,
linux can.
When did that start - or are you just looking at the non-server
versions? I don't have it around now, but I'm fairly sure I was able to
take a windows 2000 server and have it clone itself to a VMware
appliance setup that first exported an iscsi partition, then after the
software mirroring completed, booted from it. And unlike linux, the
windows version was able to convert a running non-mirrored partition
into a dynamic disk, and then mirror it.
> And
> the raid in linux is more transparent to the software, as the linux raid
> is just another device as far as the software is concerned. The kernel
> keeps full isolation and control.
I don't remember seeing anything change after the disk conversion in
windows.
--
Les Mikesell
lesmikesell at gmail.com
------------------------------
Message: 62
Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 10:43:58 -0700
From: "Dennis McLeod" <dmcleod at foranyauto.com>
Subject: RE: [CentOS] Re: Recommendations for a ?card on Centos box
To: "'CentOS mailing list'" <centos at centos.org>
Message-ID: <008d01c885fa$fb9bf780$158abecd at nimcleod>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Wow, I could have saved all that typing....
Great ideas, Les.
You were the one that introduced me to Clonezilla (unknowingly) some time ago in
another thread.
I had been using a Hirens boot disk, but Clonezilla is better.....
Dennis
-----Original Message-----
From: centos-bounces at centos.org [mailto:centos-bounces at centos.org] On
Behalf Of Les Mikesell
Sent: Friday, March 14, 2008 10:23 AM
To: CentOS mailing list
Subject: Re: [CentOS] Re: Recommendations for a card on Centos box
Therese Trudeau wrote:>> Explain your definition of a mission critical desktop. Does the
>> entire enterprise stop functioning if this desktop stops?
>> I am THE tech support for my company, but my desktop could die right
>> now, and although I would be heartbroken and a little peeved, I could
>> just fire up my lappy and get back to work in a few minutes. I
>> usually have 2 desktops running, just in case I need to put out fires
>> while my main desktop is doing the windows reboot dance.
>
> If my linux machine stops functioning it's not as bad as the windows
> box going off line, but it still takes a day or two to get things back
> on line with the linux box with all the software I installed on it.
>
> If the windows machine stops functioning, then yes it's a pain,
it's
> at least two days by the time I get back up and running because much
> of my work is graphic design and that's where all my adobe stuff is
> loaded on, and it takes a long time to get the OS re instlled, then
> grabbing my data, and re installing many many software applications etc.
>
> Because I am a one person company I just don't have time to spend days
> getting a machine back on line, and it's happened more than once. An
> hour or two however to get things runing again would not harm my work flow
that much.
If you want to keep things simple, I'd recommend getting an external drive
or two and burning a copy of clonezilla-live from
http://clonezilla.sourceforge.net/clonezilla-live/. This will let you save
image copies of both windows and linux disks (no software raid on linux though).
Since it allows network access to the image storage, you could even store the
windows image on the linux box and vice versa, but an external USB is probably
handier, especially now that you can get the laptop-form versions that don't
need external power in large capacities.
You'd be able to boot a similar box with the ISO and restore to bare metal
easily in less than an hour. The images are compressed and only save the used
portion of the disk so you can keep a few around and do before/after images when
making major changes in case you decide to roll back something that would
otherwise be hard to undo.
I'd do this for the system drive and repeat the image copy only after
updates. Then I'd put all of my own work on a separate partition (probably
a software RAID1 mounted as /home on the linux box and samba-shared to windows)
and periodically rsync the contents to an external USB/firewire drive.
Depending on the value of this work, I might have multiple external drives that
I'd rotate offsite.
--
Les Mikesell
lesmikesell at gmail.com
_______________________________________________
CentOS mailing list
CentOS at centos.org
http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
------------------------------
Message: 63
Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 13:45:02 -0400
From: Therese Trudeau <mswotr at hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: [CentOS] Recommendations for a "real RAID" 1 card on
Centos box
To: CentOS mailing list <centos at centos.org>
Message-ID: <BAY114-W2900D8BDBB56BF8AE05E69CF0A0 at phx.gbl>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>> Ah I figured someone would ask that. I use pretty much all
>> major adobe products, Photoshop, Illustrator, Flash, just
>> about the entire suite.
>>
>> I have two home workstation machines. One is Centos, and one
>> is Windows (the one I use Adobe on). I'd prefer if possible
>> to have the same type of RAID cards on both machines, because
>> easier to manage and if I ever decide to sell or give away one
>> machine, I can pull the raid card and use it as a backup.
>
> If you are a graphic designer, I'm curious what you use the
> CentOS box for (or why you use Windows and not Mac :-)
Good question when I started out I had windows so that's
what I bought - Adobe windows versions. I'm considering
migrating to Mac though because Adobe just started a
new program where one can
migrate to mac versions without paying full price for a new
version - they used to charge full price for upgrades if one wanted to
switch from Windows to mac. Now they just cancel out
the windows version if one migrates to Mac.>
>> From experience I have learned that Photoshop will not install
>> on software raid on my W2K machine - I tried it two years ago,
>> could not get it to install, and after a few days trying to get
>> it to work, called Adobe tech support and at that time the tech
>> support person told me that their products don't run on software
>> raid because they don't want people having multiple copies of one
>> license on a second drive (unless it's for their second copy
>> allowance for a laptop or second machine owned by same person,
>> and only one or the other - the laptop or second desktop are
>> run at the same time - my second copy is on a laptop ).
>
> The Photoshop support tech was just shrugging you off here
> because he didn't want to support you. There exists no such
> stipulation in Adobe's EULA. As long as it is running on
> the machine it was licensed for and that machine's OS is
> supported then you are good. Running on RAID has nothing
> to do with second copies and second machine allowance as
> the storage medium is not the key in licensing, the
> processor(s) are. Adobe needn't even be installed on the
> local HD if you can get away with a network install and
> all that registry crap, but it better have a license for
> the CPU it's running on.
>
Just spoke with Adobe sales today checking into upgrade pricing.
The sales guy said that the latest
versions of all Adobe products would not install on software RAID
systems, BUT he did say, if I bought a hardware raid system,
then I would have no problem installing it because the OS and
Adobe products do not see hardware raid. It may state in their EULA that there
is no
restriction running either software or hardware raid, but I have to
go by what the sales department tells me. It's rediculous I know.
> I had run Adobe Photoshop on Windows 2000 Terminal Server
> running under software RAID with no problems (besides poor
> visual performance due to terminal services).
That's great wish I could have gotten my apps to install a few years ago -
at the time I tried doing it with the Adaptec 2120SA raid card which uses
software raid drivers. It's a far cry from the 3ware true raid, yet I
don't
want to take the chance, set up true software raid, load my adobe products on
disk
and them find two or three years from now if I upgrade with a new version,
that adobe has found a way to disable software raid compatability for all
scenairos.
Just curious, what version of photoshop were you using under your
software raid setup? I tried it with Creative Suite 2 which includes photoshop.
>> Also I may at some time migrate my adobe products to the
>> Linux machine and run Adobe on WINE on the Linux box. Google
>> just started working with the folks over @ WINE, and they want
>> to make it so all adobe products run flawlessly on Linux -
>> WINE, not just photoshop and illustrator. Today some adobe
>> products run on wine well, some don't, in a few years they all
>> will run well on a linux box using WINE. I'm not sure about
>> running adobe using software raid on a linux box and WINE -
>> never tried it, but going with hareware raid on the linux
>> box eliminates another possible unknown.
>
> Don't bother. If you are a serious Adobe designer get
> yourself a Mac and dual boot it between OS X and CentOS or
> triple with Windows.
Yes I think I will migrate over to mac instead of running adobe on wine,
when I get the upgrade, makes much more sense. And set up a hardware RAID 1
on the new desktop mac.
_________________________________________________________________
Connect and share in new ways with Windows Live.
http://www.windowslive.com/share.html?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_Wave2_sharelife_012008
------------------------------
Message: 64
Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 13:04:48 -0500
From: "Sean Carolan" <scarolan at gmail.com>
Subject: [CentOS] Re: Forward local5.* to remote syslog-ng server
To: "CentOS mailing list" <centos at centos.org>
Message-ID:
<277020fc0803141104t34b3ec0ewd35547576b0fbbd at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
UPDATE:
The problem seems to be on the client side, because when I do this:
logger -p local5.info test
the file does show up properly on the syslog-ng host. Anyone have an
idea why the other processes that write to local5 on the client are
not logging to the remote host?
> local5.*
/var/log/mylogfile.log
------------------------------
Message: 65
Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 11:07:04 -0700
From: Scott Silva <ssilva at sgvwater.com>
Subject: [CentOS] Re: Recommendations for a ?card on Centos box
To: centos at centos.org
Message-ID: <freess$33r$1 at ger.gmane.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
on 3-14-2008 9:43 AM Therese Trudeau spake the
following:>> Explain your definition of a mission critical desktop. Does the entire
>> enterprise stop functioning if this desktop stops?
>> I am THE tech support for my company, but my desktop could die right
now, and
>> although I would be heartbroken and a little peeved, I could just fire
up my
>> lappy and get back to work in a few minutes. I usually have 2 desktops
>> running, just in case I need to put out fires while my main desktop is
doing
>> the windows reboot dance.
>
> If my linux machine stops functioning it's
> not as bad as the windows box going off line, but it still takes a day
> or two to get things back on line with the linux box with all the software
I installed on it.
>
> If the windows machine stops functioning, then yes it's a pain,
it's at least two days
> by the time I get back up and running because much of my work is graphic
design
> and that's where all my adobe stuff is loaded on, and it takes a long
time
> to get the OS re instlled, then grabbing my data, and re installing many
many
> software applications etc.
>
> Because I am a one person company I just don't have time to spend days
> getting a machine back on line, and it's happened more than once. An
hour or two
> however to get things runing again would not harm my work flow that much.
I believe that the Adobe products will let you have it installed on another
machine as long as you only use one at a time. Might be worth it to just break
down and get a cheaper system as a backup, with everything installed, and if
your main machine goes down, just power up the backup machine. It might be a
little slower, but you can still function and get work done as you fix/replace
the main machine. $1000 US for a capable machine will seem like a sting at
first, but you can justify it the first time you need it. And an occasional
boot to keep OS and virus scanners current will give you a chance to make sure
it is functioning.
--
MailScanner is like deodorant...
You hope everybody uses it, and
you notice quickly if they don't!!!!
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------------------------------
Message: 66
Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 13:14:47 -0500
From: Les Mikesell <lesmikesell at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [CentOS] Recommendations for a "real RAID" 1 card on
Centos box
To: CentOS mailing list <centos at centos.org>
Message-ID: <47DAC097.7010307 at gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Ross S. W. Walker wrote:> Les Mikesell wrote:
>> Ross S. W. Walker wrote:
>>> Don't bother. If you are a serious Adobe designer get
>>> yourself a Mac and dual boot it between OS X and CentOS or
>>> triple with Windows.
>> Or use parallels or vmware and run all 3 at once when you want... and
>> let the built in time machine tool do backups to an external firewire
or
>> network drive.
>
> Yes, even better. I think VMware sells a version of workstation for OS X
> now too.
Yes, and I think it will run VM's created under VMware server on linux
or windows, although you may not be able to move them the other
direction with some of the options you can use on the mac or windows
workstation versions.
--
Les Mikesell
lesmikesell at gmail.com
------------------------------
Message: 67
Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 14:14:54 -0400
From: "Ross S. W. Walker" <rwalker at medallion.com>
Subject: RE: [CentOS] Recommendations for a "real RAID" 1 card on
Centos box
To: "CentOS mailing list" <centos at centos.org>
Message-ID:
<E2BB8074E5500C42984D980D4BD78EF901FB0011 at MFG-NYC-EXCH2.mfg.prv>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Therese Trudeau wrote:> >> Ah I figured someone would ask that. I use pretty much all
> >> major adobe products, Photoshop, Illustrator, Flash, just
> >> about the entire suite.
> >>
> >> I have two home workstation machines. One is Centos, and one
> >> is Windows (the one I use Adobe on). I'd prefer if possible
> >> to have the same type of RAID cards on both machines, because
> >> easier to manage and if I ever decide to sell or give away one
> >> machine, I can pull the raid card and use it as a backup.
> >
> > If you are a graphic designer, I'm curious what you use the
> > CentOS box for (or why you use Windows and not Mac :-)
>
> Good question when I started out I had windows so that's
> what I bought - Adobe windows versions. I'm considering
> migrating to Mac though because Adobe just started a
> new program where one can migrate to mac versions without paying
> full price for a new version - they used to charge full price
> for upgrades if one wanted to switch from Windows to mac. Now
> they just cancel out the windows version if one migrates to Mac.
I noticed you forgot to answer my question, but good to know
Adobe has a trade-up program now ;-)
> >
> >> From experience I have learned that Photoshop will not install
> >> on software raid on my W2K machine - I tried it two years ago,
> >> could not get it to install, and after a few days trying to get
> >> it to work, called Adobe tech support and at that time the tech
> >> support person told me that their products don't run on
software
> >> raid because they don't want people having multiple copies of
one
> >> license on a second drive (unless it's for their second copy
> >> allowance for a laptop or second machine owned by same person,
> >> and only one or the other - the laptop or second desktop are
> >> run at the same time - my second copy is on a laptop ).
> >
> > The Photoshop support tech was just shrugging you off here
> > because he didn't want to support you. There exists no such
> > stipulation in Adobe's EULA. As long as it is running on
> > the machine it was licensed for and that machine's OS is
> > supported then you are good. Running on RAID has nothing
> > to do with second copies and second machine allowance as
> > the storage medium is not the key in licensing, the
> > processor(s) are. Adobe needn't even be installed on the
> > local HD if you can get away with a network install and
> > all that registry crap, but it better have a license for
> > the CPU it's running on.
>
> Just spoke with Adobe sales today checking into upgrade pricing.
> The sales guy said that the latest versions of all Adobe
> products would not install on software RAID systems, BUT he did
> say, if I bought a hardware raid system, then I would have no
> problem installing it because the OS and Adobe products do not
> see hardware raid. It may state in their EULA that there is no
> restriction running either software or hardware raid, but I have to
> go by what the sales department tells me. It's rediculous I know.
I actually googled a knowledge base article where the problem
turns out to be with the serial number generation on Adobe
products where it gets "confused" as to which drive is your
primary drive with certain third party software RAID systems.
There is some cludgy work-around for it from support, but they
recommend avoiding these systems.
> > I had run Adobe Photoshop on Windows 2000 Terminal Server
> > running under software RAID with no problems (besides poor
> > visual performance due to terminal services).
>
> That's great wish I could have gotten my apps to install a
> few years ago - at the time I tried doing it with the Adaptec
> 2120SA raid card which uses software raid drivers. It's a
> far cry from the 3ware true raid, yet I don't want to take
> the chance, set up true software raid, load my adobe products
> on disk and them find two or three years from now if I upgrade
> with a new version, that adobe has found a way to disable
> software raid compatability for all scenairos.
>
> Just curious, what version of photoshop were you using under your
> software raid setup? I tried it with Creative Suite 2 which
> includes photoshop.
At the time, say around 2002-3, I want to say Photoshop CS,
yes, but just Photoshop not the whole suite.
The RAID was on Windows Server 2000, so it was just the builtin
Windows Server software RAID. Maybe there wasn't a problem
with that RAID implementation as it was part of the OS.
> >> Also I may at some time migrate my adobe products to the
> >> Linux machine and run Adobe on WINE on the Linux box. Google
> >> just started working with the folks over @ WINE, and they want
> >> to make it so all adobe products run flawlessly on Linux -
> >> WINE, not just photoshop and illustrator. Today some adobe
> >> products run on wine well, some don't, in a few years they all
> >> will run well on a linux box using WINE. I'm not sure about
> >> running adobe using software raid on a linux box and WINE -
> >> never tried it, but going with hareware raid on the linux
> >> box eliminates another possible unknown.
> >
> > Don't bother. If you are a serious Adobe designer get
> > yourself a Mac and dual boot it between OS X and CentOS or
> > triple with Windows.
>
> Yes I think I will migrate over to mac instead of running
> adobe on wine, when I get the upgrade, makes much more sense.
> And set up a hardware RAID 1 on the new desktop mac.
Definitely better. Otherwise if you did want to use wine, go
out and buy Crossover Office as it will make it much much
less painful, but I don't know if they support the latest
CS2 versions, I think they still support just the CS versions.
Or there's Xen, but there is no good way to reliably display
such high graphic imagery from a Xen host. SDL, VNC or RDP
are just not high-performance enough.
-Ross
______________________________________________________________________
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the addressee(s) named herein and may contain legally privileged
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of this e-mail, you are hereby notified that any dissemination,
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------------------------------
Message: 68
Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 14:25:11 -0400
From: Therese Trudeau <mswotr at hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: [CentOS] Recommendations for a "real RAID" 1 card on
Centos box
To: CentOS mailing list <centos at centos.org>
Message-ID: <BAY114-W41596BBEFF56FFEB800CAACF0A0 at phx.gbl>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>>>> Don't bother. If you are a serious Adobe designer get
>>>> yourself a Mac and dual boot it between OS X and CentOS or
>>>> triple with Windows.
>>> Or use parallels or vmware and run all 3 at once when you want...
and
>>> let the built in time machine tool do backups to an external
firewire or
>>> network drive.
>>
>> Yes, even better. I think VMware sells a version of workstation for OS
X
>> now too.
>
> Yes, and I think it will run VM's created under VMware server on linux
> or windows, although you may not be able to move them the other
> direction with some of the options you can use on the mac or windows
> workstation versions.
I just called VMWare and the guy said that for what I wanted to do,
a bare metal restore solution, that I would be better served by going with
either hardware or software raid maybe combined with something like
a tape backup solution, and that their desktop / workstation
applications are not suited as a complete backup - bare
metal restore solution. He said their system was mainly for taking
system snapshots for development purposes.
_________________________________________________________________
Helping your favorite cause is as easy as instant messaging.?You IM, we give.
http://im.live.com/Messenger/IM/Home/?source=text_hotmail_join
------------------------------
Message: 69
Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 14:37:53 -0400
From: Therese Trudeau <mswotr at hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: [CentOS] Recommendations for a "real RAID" 1 card on
Centos box
To: CentOS mailing list <centos at centos.org>
Message-ID: <BAY114-W759CFBC547F114AC514F1CF0A0 at phx.gbl>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>>> If you are a graphic designer, I'm curious what you use the
>>> CentOS box for (or why you use Windows and not Mac :-)
>>
>> Good question when I started out I had windows so that's
>> what I bought - Adobe windows versions. I'm considering
>> migrating to Mac though because Adobe just started a
>> new program where one can migrate to mac versions without paying
>> full price for a new version - they used to charge full price
>> for upgrades if one wanted to switch from Windows to mac. Now
>> they just cancel out the windows version if one migrates to Mac.
>
> I noticed you forgot to answer my question, but good to know
> Adobe has a trade-up program now ;-)
OH yes did not read it all the way.
To answer your question, I also use a Linux server for hosting
sites I design for, it was just upgraded to Centos from an old version of RH,
and for several reasons I set up the centos box @ home.
I wanted to get up to speed quicker
on Centos 5 and thought this would help. Plus I feel that it is more secure to
use my linux machine at home
to both surf the net and upload files to server, more secure for email, etc.
I plan on using the Windows machine only for graphic design and not browse with
it,
& use the linux box for surfing. And experiment with some
of the Linux graphic design applications to see if they measure up
to adobe - maybe some day I could dump adobe all together.
_________________________________________________________________
Need to know the score, the latest news, or you need your Hotmail?-get your
"fix".
http://www.msnmobilefix.com/Default.aspx
------------------------------
Message: 70
Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 14:43:10 -0400
From: "Ross S. W. Walker" <rwalker at medallion.com>
Subject: RE: [CentOS] Recommendations for a "real RAID" 1 card on
Centos box
To: "CentOS mailing list" <centos at centos.org>
Message-ID:
<E2BB8074E5500C42984D980D4BD78EF901FB0012 at MFG-NYC-EXCH2.mfg.prv>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Therese Trudeau wrote:> >>>> Don't bother. If you are a serious Adobe designer get
> >>>> yourself a Mac and dual boot it between OS X and CentOS or
> >>>> triple with Windows.
> >>> Or use parallels or vmware and run all 3 at once when you
want... and
> >>> let the built in time machine tool do backups to an external
firewire or
> >>> network drive.
> >>
> >> Yes, even better. I think VMware sells a version of workstation
for OS X
> >> now too.
> >
> > Yes, and I think it will run VM's created under VMware server on
linux
> > or windows, although you may not be able to move them the other
> > direction with some of the options you can use on the mac or windows
> > workstation versions.
>
> I just called VMWare and the guy said that for what I wanted to do,
> a bare metal restore solution, that I would be better served
> by going with
> either hardware or software raid maybe combined with something like
> a tape backup solution, and that their desktop / workstation
> applications are not suited as a complete backup - bare
> metal restore solution. He said their system was mainly for taking
> system snapshots for development purposes.
The "bare metal" restore most companies tote is not as seamless as
they lead to believe and often requires to be run on a "Server"
version of Windows.
I would follow Les' advice and use an imager program like clonezilla
or Ghost and make a quarterly image and put it to an external HD and
have a bootable USB memory stick or live CD with the software on it
to restore the image if necessary.
Ok for now, just get the cheap 3ware card you were planning as long
as it'll be supported in the future. Get an external HD and download
one of the free cloning packages live CDs. Clone your hardware
mirrored setup to the external HD. Have the OS backup software
perform nightly backups to the external HD.
Then you have some hardware fault tolerance, and backups, as well
as an image of your HD just in case and all for a lot cheaper
then when you were talking complete redundancy.
If your computer blows up, you can have another computer available,
wait you do, your CentOS box...
-Ross
______________________________________________________________________
This e-mail, and any attachments thereto, is intended only for use by
the addressee(s) named herein and may contain legally privileged
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of this e-mail, you are hereby notified that any dissemination,
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is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error,
please immediately notify the sender and permanently delete the
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------------------------------
Message: 71
Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 13:51:54 -0500
From: Les Mikesell <lesmikesell at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [CentOS] Recommendations for a "real RAID" 1 card on
Centos box
To: CentOS mailing list <centos at centos.org>
Message-ID: <47DAC94A.40000 at gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Therese Trudeau wrote:>>>>> Don't bother. If you are a serious Adobe designer get
>>>>> yourself a Mac and dual boot it between OS X and CentOS or
>>>>> triple with Windows.
>>>> Or use parallels or vmware and run all 3 at once when you
want... and
>>>> let the built in time machine tool do backups to an external
firewire or
>>>> network drive.
>>> Yes, even better. I think VMware sells a version of workstation for
OS X
>>> now too.
>> Yes, and I think it will run VM's created under VMware server on
linux
>> or windows, although you may not be able to move them the other
>> direction with some of the options you can use on the mac or windows
>> workstation versions.
>
> I just called VMWare and the guy said that for what I wanted to do,
> a bare metal restore solution, that I would be better served by going with
> either hardware or software raid maybe combined with something like
> a tape backup solution, and that their desktop / workstation
> applications are not suited as a complete backup - bare
> metal restore solution. He said their system was mainly for taking
> system snapshots for development purposes.
I didn't mean to always run under VMware. What you would want to do is
get your main application(s) working natively for best performance, then
use VMware for whatever else you might need that would otherwise need a
separate machine/OS. When you switch to Linux or a Mac, you often have
a few Windows programs that you may not use often but you can't
duplicate (the netflix online movie viewer, for example...). Running
windows under vmware means you don't have to keep a separate box around
for these. Then backups of the main system will automatically include
these without extra trouble too.
--
Les Mikesell
lesmikesell at gmail.com
------------------------------
Message: 72
Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 14:08:59 -0500
From: Les Mikesell <lesmikesell at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [CentOS] Recommendations for a ?real RAID" 1 card on
Centos box
To: CentOS mailing list <centos at centos.org>
Message-ID: <47DACD4B.8090208 at gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed
John R Pierce wrote:> Robert Arkiletian wrote:
>> On 3/10/08, nate <centos at linuxpowered.net> wrote:
>>
>>
>>> You can turn on write back caching if you have a UPS as well
>>> (provided your UPS is wired into your system for a graceful
shutdown)
>>>
>>
>> Hopefully you have a redundant PS unit. Having a UPS is not going to
>> help if your PS fails.
>>
>>
>
> redundant power supplies connected to redundant UPS's. I've seen
more
> UPS failures than I've ever had failed PSUs on proper server grade
> hardware.
Exactly - You can expect a UPS to need new batteries every few years,
but I had one machine with a 4+year uptime (and only because I was able
to move power cords, change UPS's, and swap it's mirrored hard drives on
the fly). The machine is still running (RH 7.3) but it's less critical
now and I was too lazy to drag along a UPS when I had to move it to a
different location.
--
Les Mikesell
lesmikesell at gmail.com
------------------------------
Message: 73
Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 14:24:13 -0500
From: Les Mikesell <lesmikesell at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [CentOS] ext3 errors (md device related?)
To: CentOS mailing list <centos at centos.org>
Message-ID: <47DAD0DD.1050902 at gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Nicolas KOWALSKI wrote:> Les Mikesell <lesmikesell at gmail.com> writes:
>
>> 'fsck -y' seems to fix it up, but it keeps happening. Is this
likely
>> to be leftover cruft from the hardware issues or are there problems
>> in ext3/raid1/sata drivers? The way backuppc stores data with
>> millions of hardlinks in the archive it isn't really practical to
>> copy it off, reformat, and start over.
>
> Maybe a memory problem:
>
> http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.comp.file-systems.ext3.user/3457/focus=3459
Back to this problem again. I did a new mkfs.ext3 and ran more than a
week before hitting this again:
Mar 14 04:12:29 linbackup1 kernel: md3: rw=0, want=14439505280,
limit=1465143808
Mar 14 04:12:29 linbackup1 kernel: EXT3-fs error (device md3):
ext3_readdir: directory #34079247 contains a hole at offset 0
Mar 14 04:12:29 linbackup1 kernel: Aborting journal on device md3.
Mar 14 04:12:29 linbackup1 kernel: md3: rw=0, want=5260961472,
limit=1465143808
Mar 14 04:12:29 linbackup1 kernel: EXT3-fs error (device md3):
ext3_readdir: directory #34079247 contains a hole at offset 4096
I don't see any hardware related errors, and the rest of the filesystems
all seem fine, although this is the one that is busy.
Can this be related to being on a 3-member RAID1 that normally runs with
one device misssing? I've run a different one that way for a couple of
years on earlier kernels.
Will it hurt anything to mount the underlying partition of one of the
drives directly for a while instead of using the md device?
--
Les Mikesell
lesmikesell at gmail.com
------------------------------
Message: 74
Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 20:23:44 +0100
From: Niki Kovacs <contact at kikinovak.net>
Subject: [CentOS] Thunderbird: can't seem to install french spell
checker
To: CentOS mailing list <centos at centos.org>
Message-ID: <47DAD0C0.9050702 at kikinovak.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Hi,
I can't install a french spell checker in Thunderbird. There's a link in
Thunderbird's preferences, to download new dictionaries, but it's dumb.
So I downloaded the dictionary manually (spell-FR.xpi) and installed it
in Thunderbird using the 'Extensions' dialog. But the installed
dictionary doesn't appear anywhere.
Googled some over this problem, and it seems like this happens to quite
some people.
Anyone on this list successfully installed a non-english spell checker
in Thunderbird?
Cheers,
Niki
------------------------------
Message: 75
Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 15:43:34 -0400
From: "Christopher E" <sensory.access at gmail.com>
Subject: [CentOS] MSG for Barry
To: "CentOS mailing list" <centos at centos.org>
Message-ID:
<184c54640803141243p2c04546aq7827c7ef94c10192 at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Hello Barry,
could you email me please, I try to email you and it was returned.
Sincerely,
Christopher
------------------------------
Message: 76
Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 16:05:48 -0400 (EDT)
From: "James B. Byrne" <byrnejb at harte-lyne.ca>
Subject: [CentOS] Re: Gnome desktop, workspaces and windows
To: centos at centos.org
Message-ID:
<33335.216.185.71.22.1205525148.squirrel at webmail.harte-lyne.ca>
Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1
On Wed, March 12, 2008 12:59, James B. Byrne wrote:> I was editing a file in gvim when I inadvertently pressed some key
combination
> that caused the vim window to disappear from the desktop.
...>
> Questions:
>
> What key combination places the window with focus into another workspace?
>
A.
<shift><ctrl><alt><left>|<right>|<up>|<down>
> What key combination or other method moves it back into the primary
workspace?
>
A. Same as above.
> Why did hiding all windows empty the alternate workspace?
>
A. It did not. The windows therein were all minimized and had to be restored
from the bottom menu bar of the applicable workspace.
> How do I get my vim instance back from wherever it is gone?
A. Same as above.
Alternatively, you can click and drag with your mouse any window between
workspaces.
Live and learn; with pain, suffering, and general discomfort, but learn
nonetheless.
--
*** E-Mail is NOT a SECURE channel ***
James B. Byrne mailto:ByrneJB at Harte-Lyne.ca
Harte & Lyne Limited http://www.harte-lyne.ca
9 Brockley Drive vox: +1 905 561 1241
Hamilton, Ontario fax: +1 905 561 0757
Canada L8E 3C3
------------------------------
Message: 77
Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 16:31:32 -0400
From: "Ross S. W. Walker" <rwalker at medallion.com>
Subject: RE: [CentOS] ext3 errors (md device related?)
To: "CentOS mailing list" <centos at centos.org>
Message-ID:
<E2BB8074E5500C42984D980D4BD78EF901FB0014 at MFG-NYC-EXCH2.mfg.prv>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Les Mikesell wrote:> Nicolas KOWALSKI wrote:
> > Les Mikesell <lesmikesell at gmail.com> writes:
> >
> >> 'fsck -y' seems to fix it up, but it keeps happening. Is
this likely
> >> to be leftover cruft from the hardware issues or are there
problems
> >> in ext3/raid1/sata drivers? The way backuppc stores data with
> >> millions of hardlinks in the archive it isn't really practical
to
> >> copy it off, reformat, and start over.
> >
> > Maybe a memory problem:
> >
> >
> http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.comp.file-systems.ext3.user/3457/focus=3459
>
> Back to this problem again. I did a new mkfs.ext3 and ran more than a
> week before hitting this again:
>
> Mar 14 04:12:29 linbackup1 kernel: md3: rw=0, want=14439505280,
limit=1465143808
> Mar 14 04:12:29 linbackup1 kernel: EXT3-fs error (device md3):
ext3_readdir: directory #34079247 contains a hole at offset 0
> Mar 14 04:12:29 linbackup1 kernel: Aborting journal on device md3.
> Mar 14 04:12:29 linbackup1 kernel: md3: rw=0, want=5260961472,
limit=1465143808
> Mar 14 04:12:29 linbackup1 kernel: EXT3-fs error (device md3):
ext3_readdir: directory #34079247 contains a hole at offset 4096
>
> I don't see any hardware related errors, and the rest of the
filesystems
> all seem fine, although this is the one that is busy.
Is your memory ECC? If not then a memory problem can fly under the radar.
> Can this be related to being on a 3-member RAID1 that normally runs with
> one device misssing? I've run a different one that way for a couple of
> years on earlier kernels.
I haven't seen any other dm-raid problems, and dm-raid is quite mature
at this point. I won't say it isn't possible. Can you try running with
just 2 drives for a while after this fsck and see if it happens again?
> Will it hurt anything to mount the underlying partition of one of the
> drives directly for a while instead of using the md device?
I don't know. Depends how dm-raid keeps it's bitmap and meta-data. If
it's at the end then it should work, if it's at the beginning, then
you'd have to offset the mount (carefully).
You will need to be very careful when messing with the partition table
to change it's type and if you recreate the RAID1 again with existing
data on it (don't have a procedure for that).
-Ross
______________________________________________________________________
This e-mail, and any attachments thereto, is intended only for use by
the addressee(s) named herein and may contain legally privileged
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of this e-mail, you are hereby notified that any dissemination,
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is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error,
please immediately notify the sender and permanently delete the
original and any copy or printout thereof.
------------------------------
Message: 78
Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 16:27:19 -0400
From: Robert Spangler <mlists at zoominternet.net>
Subject: Re: [CentOS] Open extra ports on firewall?
To: CentOS mailing list <centos at centos.org>
Message-ID: <200803141627.19326.mlists at zoominternet.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
On Friday 14 March 2008 12:32, Niki Kovacs wrote:
> Right now, on one of my desktops, I've installed AMSN, which requires
> opening a series of ports. I've configured the app to use ports 7000
to
> 7010 (TCP and UDP). When running system-config-securitylevel-tui, the
> last line enables to define custom ports, not mentioned elsewhere in the
> menu. So, for example, when I want to add port 6891 for tcp and udp, I
> write an entry like this:
Check out this site. It's a tutorial fro IPTables.
http://iptables.rlworkman.net/chunkyhtml/index.html
--
Regards
Robert
Smile... it increases your face value!
Linux User #296285
http://counter.li.org
------------------------------
Message: 79
Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 14:52:31 -0700
From: Rogelio <scubacuda at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [CentOS] php 4/5 dependency question
To: "CentOS mailing list" <centos at centos.org>
Message-ID:
<2b7af7c40803141452t4426ec51k19de24e78139675e at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
On 3/11/08, Fajar Priyanto <fajarpri at cbn.net.id>
wrote:>
> On Wednesday 12 March 2008 04:04:03 Jim Perrin wrote:
> > On Tue, Mar 11, 2008 at 4:36 PM, Rogelio <scubacuda at
gmail.com> wrote:
> > > Error: php-pecl-apc conflicts with php-mmcache
> > > Error: Missing Dependency: php = 4.3.9 is needed by package
> php-mmcache
> > > Error: php-eaccelerator conflicts with php-mmcache
>
>
> > Sanity would suggest not using a wildcard on install. Dependencies are
> > turned on, your issue is a package conflict because you chose to
> > install two separate methods for doing the same thing, which don't
> > agree. Use a sane install command and it'll work.
>
>
> Try yum install php-mysql
I get the following error when I try to "yum update"
---> Package xorg-x11-xfs.i386 0:6.8.2-1.EL.33.0.2 set to be updated
--> Running transaction check
--> Processing Dependency: perl(:MODULE_COMPAT_5.8.8) for package:
perl-DBD-MySQ L
--> Finished Dependency Resolution
Error: Missing Dependency: perl(:MODULE_COMPAT_5.8.8) is needed by package
perl- DBD-MySQL
(I already installed php-mysql, but got nothing....)
Any ideas?
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Message: 80
Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 23:14:17 +0100
From: Nicolas KOWALSKI <niko at petole.dyndns.org>
Subject: Re: [CentOS] ext3 errors (md device related?)
To: centos at centos.org
Message-ID: <873aqtc5s6.fsf at petole.dyndns.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Les Mikesell <lesmikesell at gmail.com> writes:
> Can this be related to being on a 3-member RAID1 that normally runs
> with one device misssing? I've run a different one that way for a
> couple of years on earlier kernels.
Well, I also found this one:
http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.linux.raid/6455/focus=6908
Is your machine a "cheap" one ?
--
Nicolas
------------------------------
Message: 81
Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 17:37:58 -0500
From: Les Mikesell <lesmikesell at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [CentOS] ext3 errors (md device related?)
To: CentOS mailing list <centos at centos.org>
Message-ID: <47DAFE46.2080301 at gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Nicolas KOWALSKI wrote:>
>
>> Can this be related to being on a 3-member RAID1 that normally runs
>> with one device misssing? I've run a different one that way for a
>> couple of years on earlier kernels.
>
> Well, I also found this one:
>
> http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.linux.raid/6455/focus=6908
>
> Is your machine a "cheap" one ?
The motherboard is a few years old but decent originally. The SATA
drives and controller are recent and if it is their fault I'd expect
driver-level errors, not just filesystem issues. Hmmm, the disks are
in a removable-tray carrier that is also somewhat old and I can shift
them to a newer trayless cage to see if that makes a difference but when
problems only happen once a week it is hard to tell when/if they are fixed.
--
Les Mikesell
lesmikesell at gmail.com
------------------------------
Message: 82
Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 22:46:01 +0000
From: "Amos Shapira" <amos.shapira at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [CentOS] Good version control package?
To: "CentOS mailing list" <centos at centos.org>
Message-ID:
<9c2cca270803141546u1a172662s9bc6c10de524cd8b at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
On Thu, Mar 13, 2008 at 6:38 PM, Sean Carolan <scarolan at gmail.com>
wrote:
> > I dont really think you can get much easier than CVS if you need
> > centralized management over a network. If it never gets off the
> > machine then there is RCS. If those aren't simple enough... I
don't
> > think any of the others are going to help.
>
> Thanks for the pointers, it looks like we will go with CVS.
>
I'd recommend you re-consider SVN. It's as simple as CVS (in terms of
command line ease of use) but also adds important things:
1. Atomic commits (when checking in multiple file changes, either all of
them or none of them will go in).
2. Directory operations (moving files and directories around is as simple as
"svn mv source destination")
3. Branches are a breeze (e,g, "svn mkdir branches/project-a; svn cp
trunk/file branches/project-a")
I don't see any reason for anyone to get themselves into the trap that's
called CVS at this time and age.
(BTW - if you started with CVS then you should be able to move over to SVN,
there are programs to convert the repository).
Cheers,
--Amos
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Message: 83
Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 16:03:47 -0700
From: MHR <mhullrich at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [CentOS] evince on centos5.1
To: "CentOS mailing list" <centos at centos.org>
Message-ID:
<f4e013870803141603h2decbf0em1b3dae79d9d24de at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
On Thu, Mar 13, 2008 at 11:41 PM, Mogens Kjaer <mk at crc.dk>
wrote:> William L. Maltby wrote:
> ...
> > I use Adobe's acroread. Works very well. But don't get the
8.* series -
> > it's broken in printer interface and is a little bloated do to a
not yet
> > really useful voice reader capability.
>
> Broken? How?
>
> I've printed many pages from acroread 8.x
>
I found that with AR 8.*, when I click on the print button, all I get
is a window with all the right gray areas and no text, options, etc.
It hangs up completely and never comes back. I went back to 7.9 and
it all works perfectly. I've seen from other comments that I am not
alone here, but I have no idea what's going on, other than it doesn't
work. I use CUPS and have a Minolta PagePro 1100 laser printer that
works great with the foomatic lj4 driver in everything else.
YMMV.
mhr
------------------------------
Message: 84
Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 18:35:18 -0500
From: Les Mikesell <lesmikesell at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [CentOS] ext3 errors (md device related?)
To: CentOS mailing list <centos at centos.org>
Message-ID: <47DB0BB6.8010307 at gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Ross S. W. Walker wrote:
>> Back to this problem again. I did a new mkfs.ext3 and ran more than a
>> week before hitting this again:
>>
>> Mar 14 04:12:29 linbackup1 kernel: md3: rw=0, want=14439505280,
limit=1465143808
>> Mar 14 04:12:29 linbackup1 kernel: EXT3-fs error (device md3):
ext3_readdir: directory #34079247 contains a hole at offset 0
>> Mar 14 04:12:29 linbackup1 kernel: Aborting journal on device md3.
>> Mar 14 04:12:29 linbackup1 kernel: md3: rw=0, want=5260961472,
limit=1465143808
>> Mar 14 04:12:29 linbackup1 kernel: EXT3-fs error (device md3):
ext3_readdir: directory #34079247 contains a hole at offset 4096
>>
>> I don't see any hardware related errors, and the rest of the
filesystems
>> all seem fine, although this is the one that is busy.
>
> Is your memory ECC? If not then a memory problem can fly under the radar.
dmidecode says single-bit ECC
>
>> Can this be related to being on a 3-member RAID1 that normally runs
with
>> one device misssing? I've run a different one that way for a couple
of
>> years on earlier kernels.
>
> I haven't seen any other dm-raid problems, and dm-raid is quite mature
> at this point. I won't say it isn't possible. Can you try running
with
> just 2 drives for a while after this fsck and see if it happens again?
I normally run with only 2. I add the 3rd once a week long enough to
sync, then unmount the partition long enough to fail and remove the 3rd,
then rotate it offsite. The times it has had problems, there have only
been 2 active partitions.
>> Will it hurt anything to mount the underlying partition of one of the
>> drives directly for a while instead of using the md device?
>
> I don't know. Depends how dm-raid keeps it's bitmap and meta-data.
If
> it's at the end then it should work, if it's at the beginning, then
> you'd have to offset the mount (carefully).
>
> You will need to be very careful when messing with the partition table
> to change it's type and if you recreate the RAID1 again with existing
> data on it (don't have a procedure for that).
I can mount the underlying partition without changing its type and it
appears to work. I do that regularly to test the offsite copy but have
always later wiped it with a new sync from the live set so I don't know
if there is any harm done to using it as an md device after that.
--
Les Mikesell
lesmikesell at gmail.com
------------------------------
Message: 85
Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 20:31:25 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Scott R. Ehrlich" <scott at MIT.EDU>
Subject: Re: [CentOS] Overland Arcvault 12 and sequential/random
settings
To: CentOS mailing list <centos at centos.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.64L.0803142027310.8246 at biohazard-cafe.mit.edu>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed
On Thu, 13 Mar 2008, Max Hodgson wrote:
> I use Dell 124T tape loaders with Centos. The controlling device on mine is
> separate to the data device.
Turned out to be at least the need for a new scsi card, which I obtained.
I also used a new machine. But your experience below did lead me to
review dmesg more carefully, which led to the proper device that happened
to not be /dev/st0. mtx did respond positively. It is possible the first
"problem" machine could work with the new card, but I have other
things to
battle :-)
Thanks again.
Scott
>
> e.g.
>
> I use:
>
> $> mtx -f /dev/sg1 status
>
> But for writing to tape:
>
> $> tar cvf /dev/st0 /etc
>
> I think the dmesg told me which device to use to control.
>
> mjh
>
>
> On 13/03/2008, Scott R. Ehrlich <scott at mit.edu> wrote:
>>
>> My unit's firmware: library 05.03, tape d22h, shows the device as
set to
>> random mode. But mtx -f /dev/st0 status gives an error that google says
>> the device is in sequential mode. dmesg|grep -i hp does reflect CentOS
>> thinks the device is a sequential unit.
>>
>> I've tried this with Fedora 8, too, and both show the same, so it
is
>> either an issue with CentOS/Fedora RPMs, or the version of MTX?
>>
>> I'm going to try a simple install of Ubuntu next and see if there
is any
>> difference.
>>
>> Is this a bug with the firmware, or with my setup?
>>
>> I have rebooted the tape drive and machine several times.
>>
>> I have the drive connected to an Adaptec 29160.
>>
>> I have another identical drive on another system, with a library
firmware
>> of d21h, tape firmware 04.04, and that works perfectly with mtx, though
it
>> is connected to a different SCSI card.
>>
>> Thanks for any help/insights.
>>
>> Scott
>> _______________________________________________
>> CentOS mailing list
>> CentOS at centos.org
>> http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
>>
>
------------------------------
Message: 86
Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2008 01:39:57 +0100
From: mouss <mouss at netoyen.net>
Subject: Re: [CentOS] Migrate Outlook Express mail to Thunderbird?
To: CentOS mailing list <centos at centos.org>
Message-ID: <47DB1ADD.90405 at netoyen.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Jeff Larsen wrote:>
>
> Taking a different approach than others...
>
> Load them back into Outlook Express on a Windows box. Open a gmail
> account and enable it for IMAP access. Configure Outlook Express for
> gmail/IMAP and copy the messages to gmail folders. Configure T-Bird on
> CentOS for gmail/IMAP and copy from gmail to Local Folders. Hopefully
> you don't have several Gigs of messages. If you already have an IMAP
> enabled mail account somewhere else, you could use that too.
>
>
no need for gmail if he has a machine that can run an imap server
(dovecot, courier, ...), as this would be faster.
and yes, if the mailbox is large, that'll take a loooooong time. I don't
know which outlook* variants can copy multiple folders at once. Last
time I had to do this, I needed to copy folders one at a time and when I
reached the last folder, I left the machine for one day... (that was
with some outlook 200?).
------------------------------
Message: 87
Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 18:27:55 -0700
From: Bill Campbell <centos at celestial.com>
Subject: Re: [CentOS] Migrate Outlook Express mail to Thunderbird?
To: centos at centos.org
Message-ID: <20080315012755.GA23653 at ayn.mi.celestial.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
On Sat, Mar 15, 2008, mouss wrote:>Jeff Larsen wrote:
>>
>>
>>Taking a different approach than others...
>>
>>Load them back into Outlook Express on a Windows box. Open a gmail
>>account and enable it for IMAP access. Configure Outlook Express for
>>gmail/IMAP and copy the messages to gmail folders. Configure T-Bird on
>>CentOS for gmail/IMAP and copy from gmail to Local Folders. Hopefully
>>you don't have several Gigs of messages. If you already have an IMAP
>>enabled mail account somewhere else, you could use that too.
>
>no need for gmail if he has a machine that can run an imap server
>(dovecot, courier, ...), as this would be faster.
>
>and yes, if the mailbox is large, that'll take a loooooong time. I
don't
>know which outlook* variants can copy multiple folders at once. Last
>time I had to do this, I needed to copy folders one at a time and when I
>reached the last folder, I left the machine for one day... (that was
>with some outlook 200?).
My normal method of getting mail from an Exchange or other IMAP
server to a local Maildir store is with a python script that logs
into the remote IMAP server, queries for all the folders, then
copies all the messages to the local Maildir (which is usually
served by courier-map).
We *STRONGLY* recommend that people leave their mail on the IMAP
server, not on their desktop machines as (a) it's on a reliable
server, not the Microsoft Virus Windows, (b) it's easy to move to
a new desktop machine with minimal hassle, and (c) it's available
via webmail or remote secure IMAP when away from the desk.
Over the years I've written scripts to convert from a variety of
mail stores to Maildir including standard Unix mail files, U.W.
IMAP binary mbx format, kmail, etc.
As I remember the original posting was talking about mail stored
in Microsoft's proprietary binary format, I think the same one
used by Access and Exchange servers. I have never tackled
recovering data from these formats, and Friends don't let Friends
do Windows.
Bill
--
INTERNET: bill at celestial.com Bill Campbell; Celestial Software LLC
URL: http://www.celestial.com/ PO Box 820; 6641 E. Mercer Way
FAX: (206) 232-9186 Mercer Island, WA 98040-0820; (206) 236-1676
It is surprising how much new stuff users find that developers never do.
You put a copy in front of a normal user and they find all these bugs that
you would think developers would find. The real users and developers are
completely different species as far as I am concerned.
--Linux creator Linus Torvalds
------------------------------
Message: 88
Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 20:33:35 -0500
From: "Sean Carolan" <scarolan at gmail.com>
Subject: [CentOS] Re: Forward local5.* to remote syslog-ng server
To: "CentOS mailing list" <centos at centos.org>
Message-ID:
<277020fc0803141833h7627b072rff8ce236191d128b at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
I have also found that there are a small handful of hosts that seem to
spit out a line or two of log output once in a while on the server,
but have not yet identified a pattern.
------------------------------
Message: 89
Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 22:09:31 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Scott R. Ehrlich" <scott at MIT.EDU>
Subject: [CentOS] Incremental backups?
To: centos at centos.org
Message-ID:
<Pine.GSO.4.64L.0803142201190.13300 at biohazard-cafe.mit.edu>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed
So I thought I'd get a head start for next week -
I have a low-power Linux box that has a few samba shares mounted, and
limited hard disk space. This box is connected to a tape library via
SCSI card.
I want to find the best way to create a full, then incremental backup of
the samba mounts, directly to tape. Some of the samba mounts are
appliances that cannot run any special client/agent.
I'm looking at tar as an option, with its --incremental switch. Bacula
uses a mysql database. I tried setting it up and it was not so easy, so I
opted to use my time for other tasks. Same for Amanda.
I would use dump, but samba connections are not device files.
How about rsync? The tape library is LTO3 with hardware compression
available. Google searching just now doesn't make rsync directly to tape
too hopeful.
What are the simplest options for incrementals based on date/time
modified?
Thanks.
Scott
------------------------------
Message: 90
Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2008 09:34:40 +0700
From: Fajar Priyanto <fajarpri at cbn.net.id>
Subject: Re: [CentOS] Incremental backups?
To: centos at centos.org
Message-ID: <200803150934.40689.fajarpri at cbn.net.id>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
On Saturday 15 March 2008 09:09:31 Scott R. Ehrlich
wrote:> I would use dump, but samba connections are not device files.
>
> How about rsync? The tape library is LTO3 with hardware compression
> available. Google searching just now doesn't make rsync directly to
tape
> too hopeful.
>
> What are the simplest options for incrementals based on date/time
> modified?
I've tried rdiff-backup and it works quite ok.
http://www.nongnu.org/rdiff-backup/
--
Fajar Priyanto | Reg'd Linux User #327841 | Linux tutorial
http://linux2.arinet.org
09:34:33 up 2:24, 2.6.22-14-generic GNU/Linux
Let's use OpenOffice. http://www.openoffice.org
The real challenge of teaching is getting your students motivated to learn.
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Message: 91
Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 23:12:54 -0500
From: Les Mikesell <lesmikesell at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [CentOS] Incremental backups?
To: CentOS mailing list <centos at centos.org>
Message-ID: <47DB4CC6.7080003 at gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Scott R. Ehrlich wrote:> So I thought I'd get a head start for next week -
>
> I have a low-power Linux box that has a few samba shares mounted, and
> limited hard disk space. This box is connected to a tape library via
> SCSI card.
>
> I want to find the best way to create a full, then incremental backup of
> the samba mounts, directly to tape. Some of the samba mounts are
> appliances that cannot run any special client/agent.
>
> I'm looking at tar as an option, with its --incremental switch.
Bacula
> uses a mysql database. I tried setting it up and it was not so easy, so
> I opted to use my time for other tasks. Same for Amanda.
If you spend a little time setting up amanda or backup, they'll take
care of this for you with no attention for years. If you roll your own,
you'll probably be fiddling with it all the time to get it right.
> I would use dump, but samba connections are not device files.
>
> How about rsync? The tape library is LTO3 with hardware compression
> available. Google searching just now doesn't make rsync directly to
> tape too hopeful.
You can't do rsync to tape.
> What are the simplest options for incrementals based on date/time modified?
The one that gets it right is:
cd /path/to/save
tar --listed-incremental /path/to/incfile -c -f /dev/nst0 .
where incfile is arbitrary filename that you choose for each run. If
the file doesn't exist, you'll get a full run and create the file. If
it does exist you get an incremental and the file is re-written in place
for a subsequent incremental run. If you want all incrementals based
from the full so you only have to restore 2 tapes, you have to save the
incfile from the full run and put it back after incremental runs modify
it. If you don't do it that way, you'll miss copying old files in their
new positions under a renamed directory because a strictly time based
check won't pick that up.
You are on your own keeping track of which tapes have to be restored in
which order to match the incrementals with the parent fulls. Bacula or
amanda would do that for you.
If you want something easier and can live with disk based backups
instead of tape, look at backuppc (http://backuppc.sourceforge.net/). I
still run amanda because I set it up about 10 years ago and never have
to do anything but change the tapes, but I take the tapes offsite and
would only restore from them after a disaster. For day-to-day stuff it
is much easier to grab a copy or do a restore from the on-line web
interface of backuppc.
--
Les Mikesell
lesmikesell at gmail.com
------------------------------
Message: 92
Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2008 06:14:40 +0100
From: Niki Kovacs <contact at kikinovak.net>
Subject: Re: [CentOS] Open extra ports on firewall?
To: CentOS mailing list <centos at centos.org>
Message-ID: <47DB5B40.4020502 at kikinovak.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Robert Spangler a ?crit :>
> Check out this site. It's a tutorial fro IPTables.
>
> http://iptables.rlworkman.net/chunkyhtml/index.html
>
Funny you send me this link. I know Robbie Workman as an ex-fellow
Slackware user.
And I also know some basic iptables (no system-config-* in Slackware
:oD). My question was more about the syntax of the integrated Firewall
tool that ships with CentOS.
Cheers,
Niki
------------------------------
Message: 93
Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2008 08:44:06 +0100
From: Mogens Kjaer <mk at crc.dk>
Subject: Re: [CentOS] Incremental backups?
To: CentOS mailing list <centos at centos.org>
Message-ID: <47DB7E46.4030306 at crc.dk>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Scott R. Ehrlich wrote:
...> I'm looking at tar as an option, with its --incremental switch.
Bacula
> uses a mysql database. I tried setting it up and it was not so easy, so
> I opted to use my time for other tasks. Same for Amanda.
I use:
cd /
tar cvlbf 512 /dev/nst0 \
--multi-volume --new-volume-script /usr/local/bin/mtxnext \
--ignore-failed-read \
--listed-incremental /home/root/backup/incremental_logfile \
. >$LOGDIR/root_$BACKUPDATE.log 2>&1
A full backup is done once every week, followed by daily incremental
backups: This is controlled by the tape status. Every Monday we
replace the tapes in the robot. So when no tape is loaded in the
drive this signals that a full backup must be done.
To make a full backup, I simply erase /home/root/backup/incremental_logfile
before doing the above command.
The mtxnext script selects the next tape on the robot
and waits for the robot to finish.
Mogens
--
Mogens Kjaer, Carlsberg A/S, Computer Department
Gamle Carlsberg Vej 10, DK-2500 Valby, Denmark
Phone: +45 33 27 53 25, Fax: +45 33 27 47 08
Email: mk at crc.dk Homepage: http://www.crc.dk
------------------------------
Message: 94
Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2008 08:46:55 +0100
From: Niki Kovacs <contact at kikinovak.net>
Subject: [CentOS] Firefox 3
To: CentOS mailing list <centos at centos.org>
Message-ID: <47DB7EEF.4060708 at kikinovak.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Hi,
I just read the release announcement for RHEL 5.2beta:
https://www.redhat.com/archives/rhelv5-announce/2008-March/msg00000.html
And something caught my eye:
--8<-----------------------------------------
* Laptop and Desktop Enhancement
+ Suspend and Hibernate improvements
+ Re-base of the top Desktop applications
- Evolution 2.12.3
- Firefox 3
- OpenOffice 2.3.0
- Thunderbird 2.0
+ Updated graphics drivers
--8<-----------------------------------------
I see that the folks from Red Hat decided to completely ignore Firefox
2.0: an eloquent detail.
Now it's more than once that I've read good things about Firefox 3. Much
less RAM-hungry than it's predecessors, excellent standards compliance,
much more stable. What's the best way to get Firefox 3 on my CentOS 5.1?
Is there some RPM for RHEL somewhere? Some SRPM? Or simply wait
patiently for CentOS 5.2?
Aside: I use XFCE, not GNOME, so I don't have to go through the chore of
updating some core GNOME components (like Yelp).
Cheers,
Niki
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End of CentOS Digest, Vol 38, Issue 15
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