llvm dev - May 2017 - Email list just for front end developers?

On Sat, 6 May 2017 23:11:16 +0800 C Bergström
<cbergstrom at pathscale.com> wrote:
> On Sat, May 6, 2017 at 11:07 PM, Perry E. Metzger via llvm-dev <
> llvm-dev at lists.llvm.org> wrote:
> 
> > Howdy!
> >
> > I've noticed that requests for help by people like me who are
> > developing front ends are often lost in the noise in the llvm-dev
> > list. Although LLVM is a wonderful and very productive framework,
> > I've found that getting help on my front end has been very
> > difficult, and learning necessary detail about the APIs and the
> > like is often very, very challenging.
> >
> > Perhaps it would be good to set up a mailing list just for front
> > end developers to provide mutual assistance to one another?  
> 
> 
> I'm not sure if by front-end you mean like programming language
> side of things,
A front end is a translator from some programming language
(everything from Julia to C++ to Haskell to Rust to dozens of others)
into the LLVM IR.
> but have you seen cfe-dev?
> http://lists.llvm.org/pipermail/cfe-dev/
That's specific to the clang front end.

There are a lot of people out there writing front ends for other
programming languages than C and C++ using LLVM (as I'm sure everyone
is well aware). I'm writing one myself right now as part of my
research.

People working on front ends typically don't really know everything
about the innards of LLVM, and thanks to LLVM's very nicely designed
architecture, we don't need to, we mostly need to know how to
generate IR and hook up to the rest of the system. We're more like
users than developers of LLVM itself, and yet our questions tend to
be quite technical since much of the API is not as well documented as
one might like.

Having a place dedicated to mutual aid among front end developers
(and of course assistance from anyone else who is willing to answer
questions) would be nice.

Perry
-- 
Perry E. Metzger		perry at piermont.com

On Sat, May 6, 2017 at 11:57 PM, Perry E. Metzger <perry at piermont.com>
wrote:
> On Sat, 6 May 2017 23:11:16 +0800 C Bergström
> <cbergstrom at pathscale.com> wrote:
> > On Sat, May 6, 2017 at 11:07 PM, Perry E. Metzger via llvm-dev <
> > llvm-dev at lists.llvm.org> wrote:
> >
> > > Howdy!
> > >
> > > I've noticed that requests for help by people like me who are
> > > developing front ends are often lost in the noise in the llvm-dev
> > > list. Although LLVM is a wonderful and very productive framework,
> > > I've found that getting help on my front end has been very
> > > difficult, and learning necessary detail about the APIs and the
> > > like is often very, very challenging.
> > >
> > > Perhaps it would be good to set up a mailing list just for front
> > > end developers to provide mutual assistance to one another?
> >
> >
> > I'm not sure if by front-end you mean like programming language
> > side of things,
>
> A front end is a translator from some programming language
> (everything from Julia to C++ to Haskell to Rust to dozens of others)
> into the LLVM IR.
>
> > but have you seen cfe-dev?
> > http://lists.llvm.org/pipermail/cfe-dev/
>
> That's specific to the clang front end.
>
> There are a lot of people out there writing front ends for other
> programming languages than C and C++ using LLVM (as I'm sure everyone
> is well aware). I'm writing one myself right now as part of my
> research.
>
> People working on front ends typically don't really know everything
> about the innards of LLVM, and thanks to LLVM's very nicely designed
> architecture, we don't need to, we mostly need to know how to
> generate IR and hook up to the rest of the system. We're more like
> users than developers of LLVM itself, and yet our questions tend to
> be quite technical since much of the API is not as well documented as
> one might like.
>
> Having a place dedicated to mutual aid among front end developers
> (and of course assistance from anyone else who is willing to answer
> questions) would be nice.
>
I referred you to that list in speaking from experience. cfe-dev may have
started life as a c-centric list, but that's where the experts are and
where I'd recommend you to direct your questions. (If you don't believe
me
look at the list archive and you'll see similar questions from time to time)
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On Sun, 7 May 2017 00:01:34 +0800 C Bergström
<cbergstrom at pathscale.com> wrote:
> > Having a place dedicated to mutual aid among front end developers
> > (and of course assistance from anyone else who is willing to
> > answer questions) would be nice.
> >  
> 
> I referred you to that list in speaking from experience. cfe-dev
> may have started life as a c-centric list, but that's where the
> experts are and where I'd recommend you to direct your questions.
I am a subscriber to that list and am familiar with it. Almost all
the traffic is Clang specific.
> (If you don't believe me look at the list archive and you'll see
> similar questions from time to time)
Yes, from time to time, just as from time to time people ask
questions here. It is somewhat difficult getting attention for
such questions amidst the other traffic. It would be nice to have a
list dedicated to the purpose. You need not subscribe if such a list
does not serve your needs. It would, however, likely serve _my_
needs, and I suspect it would serve other people's needs as well.

Perry
-- 
Perry E. Metzger		perry at piermont.com