Rails - Oct 2009 - Client side validation - good, bad, or useless?

How do you guys feel about client side validation? Do you think its
necessary or a waste of time?

jko170 wrote:
> How do you guys feel about client side validation? Do you think its
> necessary or a waste of time?
Good: gives user immediate feedback without the overhead of a server 
request.

Waste of time: Only works if JS is on.  Not airtight, and may cause 
problems for browsers that don''t do JS.

With those facts in mind, determine what makes sense for your app.  I 
rarely use client-side validation, but I could imagine places where
it''s
helpful.

The one you can''t forget is DB-level validation.  The app is not 
sufficient to keep bad data out of the DB.

Best,
--
Marnen Laibow-Koser
http://www.marnen.org
marnen-sbuyVjPbboAdnm+yROfE0A@public.gmane.org
-- 
Posted via http://www.ruby-forum.com/.

> How do you guys feel about client side validation? Do you think its
> necessary or a waste of time?
All depends on the app for me.  You obviously have to validate server  
side regardless, but if there are things you can do client side to  
make it easier for the user, go for it.  I''m thinking things like  
"username can only be lowercase alphanumeric"... if you can stop  
someone from filling out an entire form only to complain they ignored  
your rule... that''s a nice feature.

There''s a plugin out there that will take your AR model validations  
and convert them into javascript validations in your form.  Can''t  
recall the name, but that might simplify things for you.

Now... my personal pet peeve is forms that demand that phone numbers  
be in a certain format... I happen to like 555.555.5555 and that  
happens to be what my browser remembers.  Drives me nuts when it  
whines that I have to use 555-555-5555.  Just strip the non numbers  
and format it yourself!  *grumble* *grumble*

The same is true for credit card numbers...  point being if you can  
clean it up server side and still know what you''ve got, do it :)

-philip

Philip Hallstrom wrote:
>> How do you guys feel about client side validation? Do you think its
>> necessary or a waste of time?
> 
> All depends on the app for me.  You obviously have to validate server
> side regardless, but if there are things you can do client side to
> make it easier for the user, go for it.  I''m thinking things like
> "username can only be lowercase alphanumeric"... if you can stop
> someone from filling out an entire form only to complain they ignored
> your rule... that''s a nice feature.
Yes.  And you don''t need client-side validation for that, just a note. 
Sounds obvious, but you''d be amazed how often I see it omitted.
> 
> There''s a plugin out there that will take your AR model
validations
> and convert them into javascript validations in your form.  Can''t
> recall the name, but that might simplify things for you.
I''ll check that out.  That was actually something I liked about 
ColdFusion.
> 
> Now... my personal pet peeve is forms that demand that phone numbers
> be in a certain format... I happen to like 555.555.5555 and that
> happens to be what my browser remembers.  Drives me nuts when it
> whines that I have to use 555-555-5555.  Just strip the non numbers
> and format it yourself!  *grumble* *grumble*
> 
> The same is true for credit card numbers...  point being if you can
> clean it up server side and still know what you''ve got, do it :)
> 
Agreed 100%.  Don''t make the user do things that the app should be
smart
enough to do itself.
> -philip
Best,
--
Marnen Laibow-Koser
http://www.marnen.org
marnen-sbuyVjPbboAdnm+yROfE0A@public.gmane.org
-- 
Posted via http://www.ruby-forum.com/.

The plugin is this: http://livevalidation.rubyforge.org/

On Oct 9, 2:53 pm, Marnen Laibow-Koser <rails-mailing-l...@andreas-
s.net> wrote:
> Philip Hallstrom wrote:
> >> How do you guys feel about client side validation? Do you think
its
> >> necessary or a waste of time?
>
> > All depends on the app for me.  You obviously have to validate server
> > side regardless, but if there are things you can do client side to
> > make it easier for the user, go for it.  I''m thinking things
like
> > "username can only be lowercase alphanumeric"... if you can
stop
> > someone from filling out an entire form only to complain they ignored
> > your rule... that''s a nice feature.
>
> Yes.  And you don''t need client-side validation for that, just a
note.
> Sounds obvious, but you''d be amazed how often I see it omitted.
>
>
>
> > There''s a plugin out there that will take your AR model
validations
> > and convert them into javascript validations in your form.
 Can''t
> > recall the name, but that might simplify things for you.
>
> I''ll check that out.  That was actually something I liked about
> ColdFusion.
>
>
>
> > Now... my personal pet peeve is forms that demand that phone numbers
> > be in a certain format... I happen to like 555.555.5555 and that
> > happens to be what my browser remembers.  Drives me nuts when it
> > whines that I have to use 555-555-5555.  Just strip the non numbers
> > and format it yourself!  *grumble* *grumble*
>
> > The same is true for credit card numbers...  point being if you can
> > clean it up server side and still know what you''ve got, do it
:)
>
> Agreed 100%.  Don''t make the user do things that the app should be
smart
> enough to do itself.
>
> > -philip
>
> Best,
> --
> Marnen Laibow-Koserhttp://www.marnen.org
> mar...-sbuyVjPbboAdnm+yROfE0A@public.gmane.org
> --
> Posted viahttp://www.ruby-forum.com/.

I do both. Server-side is an obvious must. Client-side minimizes
unnecessary hits on your server, and it has a better "feel" to the
user. For example, if they neglect to fill in certain required fields,
no reason to go all the way to your server and back to figure that
out.


On Oct 9, 2:55 pm, jko170 <jko...-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>
wrote:
> The plugin is this:http://livevalidation.rubyforge.org/
>
> On Oct 9, 2:53 pm, Marnen Laibow-Koser <rails-mailing-l...@andreas-
>
> s.net> wrote:
> > Philip Hallstrom wrote:
> > >> How do you guys feel about client side validation? Do you
think its
> > >> necessary or a waste of time?
>
> > > All depends on the app for me.  You obviously have to validate
server
> > > side regardless, but if there are things you can do client side
to
> > > make it easier for the user, go for it.  I''m thinking
things like
> > > "username can only be lowercase alphanumeric"... if you
can stop
> > > someone from filling out an entire form only to complain they
ignored
> > > your rule... that''s a nice feature.
>
> > Yes.  And you don''t need client-side validation for that,
just a note.
> > Sounds obvious, but you''d be amazed how often I see it
omitted.
>
> > > There''s a plugin out there that will take your AR model
validations
> > > and convert them into javascript validations in your form.
 Can''t
> > > recall the name, but that might simplify things for you.
>
> > I''ll check that out.  That was actually something I liked
about
> > ColdFusion.
>
> > > Now... my personal pet peeve is forms that demand that phone
numbers
> > > be in a certain format... I happen to like 555.555.5555 and that
> > > happens to be what my browser remembers.  Drives me nuts when it
> > > whines that I have to use 555-555-5555.  Just strip the non
numbers
> > > and format it yourself!  *grumble* *grumble*
>
> > > The same is true for credit card numbers...  point being if you
can
> > > clean it up server side and still know what you''ve got,
do it :)
>
> > Agreed 100%.  Don''t make the user do things that the app
should be smart
> > enough to do itself.
>
> > > -philip
>
> > Best,
> > --
> > Marnen Laibow-Koserhttp://www.marnen.org
> > mar...-sbuyVjPbboAdnm+yROfE0A@public.gmane.org
> > --
> > Posted viahttp://www.ruby-forum.com/.

The problem I have found is its adding unnecessary work. If the server
side has the validations, why do you need client side? Hitting the
server is a non-issue as I believe most people fill out forms
correctly on the first go.

On Oct 9, 5:59 pm, wbr <banane...-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>
wrote:
> I do both. Server-side is an obvious must. Client-side minimizes
> unnecessary hits on your server, and it has a better "feel" to
the
> user. For example, if they neglect to fill in certain required fields,
> no reason to go all the way to your server and back to figure that
> out.
>
> On Oct 9, 2:55 pm, jko170
<jko...-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> wrote:
>
>
>
> > The plugin is this:http://livevalidation.rubyforge.org/
>
> > On Oct 9, 2:53 pm, Marnen Laibow-Koser <rails-mailing-l...@andreas-
>
> > s.net> wrote:
> > > Philip Hallstrom wrote:
> > > >> How do you guys feel about client side validation? Do
you think its
> > > >> necessary or a waste of time?
>
> > > > All depends on the app for me.  You obviously have to
validate server
> > > > side regardless, but if there are things you can do client
side to
> > > > make it easier for the user, go for it.  I''m
thinking things like
> > > > "username can only be lowercase alphanumeric"...
if you can stop
> > > > someone from filling out an entire form only to complain
they ignored
> > > > your rule... that''s a nice feature.
>
> > > Yes.  And you don''t need client-side validation for
that, just a note.
> > > Sounds obvious, but you''d be amazed how often I see it
omitted.
>
> > > > There''s a plugin out there that will take your AR
model validations
> > > > and convert them into javascript validations in your form.
 Can''t
> > > > recall the name, but that might simplify things for you.
>
> > > I''ll check that out.  That was actually something I
liked about
> > > ColdFusion.
>
> > > > Now... my personal pet peeve is forms that demand that phone
numbers
> > > > be in a certain format... I happen to like 555.555.5555 and
that
> > > > happens to be what my browser remembers.  Drives me nuts
when it
> > > > whines that I have to use 555-555-5555.  Just strip the non
numbers
> > > > and format it yourself!  *grumble* *grumble*
>
> > > > The same is true for credit card numbers...  point being if
you can
> > > > clean it up server side and still know what you''ve
got, do it :)
>
> > > Agreed 100%.  Don''t make the user do things that the app
should be smart
> > > enough to do itself.
>
> > > > -philip
>
> > > Best,
> > > --
> > > Marnen Laibow-Koserhttp://www.marnen.org
> > > mar...-sbuyVjPbboAdnm+yROfE0A@public.gmane.org
> > > --
> > > Posted viahttp://www.ruby-forum.com/.