This may be unrealistic and useless, but I've been thinking about an
interesting file-sharing solution.
In my system, only Ogg Vorbis files may be shared, and they should all be
directly ripped from a CD. Nothing that someone would convert from MP3, etc.
While that cannot be enforceable, it should be made clear. Also, track listings
should be not filenames, but the Artist and Title of the song as read from tags.
Anyway, let's say I have ten CDs all converted to high-quality Ogg Vorbis...
for example, quality level 7. Someone on the system searches for a song that I
have, and decide to download it. Now here is the important part!: the
downloader is presented with a menu of the quality that they wish to download!
For example, if they are a broadband user, they may choose to continue at
quality 7, but if they are a dial-up user, they may decide speed over quality
and choose quality 2. Of course, it should not be possible to
"upgrade" to anything higher than 7 if my file is encoded at level 7.
With future peeling tools, this should be trivial to accomplish, without
re-encoding the file. It's true that at first, there'd be very little
to share, but if this takes off, this will be sort of a music filesharing
utopia.
TO SUMMARIZE:
- listings read from song tags, instead of using the filename
- CD-quality songs
- bitrate peeling put to use! finally, lucrative for dial-up users!
- of course, all good features of current file-sharing tools, like
multi-host download ability and de-centralization
What do you think? Even if this is the most unrealistic and useless idea that
you've heard, it's interesting nevertheless. Certainly something to
wish for.
-- Philip.
Philip M. White <pmwhite1104@yahoo.com>
A2F8 00C7 411C 4823 CCFB B0B0 75EA F071 446D A9DD
"MP3 the king is a mighty warrior, but he's showing new wounds.
Ogg [Vorbis] is the successor to the throne ... In this case,
Open Source is not a compromise; Vorbis is the best out there."
-- Monty (Mr. Vorbis) on Slashdot
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At 11:14 PM 15/03/2002 -0600, Philip M. White wrote:> - listings read from song tags, instead of using the filename > - CD-quality songs > - bitrate peeling put to use! finally, lucrative for dial-up users! > - of course, all good features of current file-sharing toolsSounds perfectly feasible. You could plausibly build a jabber transport layer once the jabber (or other GNU chat/share system) file sharing protocols get thrashed out a liitle more, and have the whole bundle open source. Moz _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com --- >8 ---- List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ Ogg project homepage: http://www.xiph.org/ogg/ To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'vorbis-request@xiph.org' containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered.
On 15 Mar 2002 at 23:14, Philip M. White wrote:> TO SUMMARIZE: > > - listings read from song tags, instead of using the filename > - CD-quality songs > - bitrate peeling put to use! finally, lucrative for dial-up users! > - of course, all good features of current file-sharing tools, like > multi-host download ability and de-centralizationTruth be told, if this system was implemented well, it could go a long, long way toward toppling MP3. There would be enough features to shame the likes of Napster. That is, features that users *actually care about* as relatively few seem to care much about sound quality, patent encumbrance, and licensing. Implementing such a system, though, might be hairy for various reasons, and I can't comment on the technical details. <p> -- -:-:- David K. Gasaway -:-:- XNS : =David K Gasaway -:-:- Email: dave@gasaway.org -:-:- Web : dave.gasaway.org <p>--- >8 ---- List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ Ogg project homepage: http://www.xiph.org/ogg/ To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'vorbis-request@xiph.org' containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered.
Philip M. White wrote:> >TO SUMMARIZE: > > - listings read from song tags, instead of using the filename > - CD-quality songs > - bitrate peeling put to use! finally, lucrative for dial-up users! > - of course, all good features of current file-sharing tools, like multi-host download ability and de-centralization >I would definitely find value in all your suggestions except the first one. Perhaps listings from song tags would be an option, but many of the downloads I receive are tag-deficient. Partly due to that, I have personally become dedicated to a file naming standard which serves all my sorting/playback needs, as well as batch tag populating: artist (year-album name-track number) - track name Ciao for now, --EdB <EnderEd@yahoo.com> http://www.geocities.com/EnderEd <p><p><p>--- >8 ---- List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ Ogg project homepage: http://www.xiph.org/ogg/ To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'vorbis-request@xiph.org' containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered.
> Philip M. White <pmwhite1104@yahoo.com> > A2F8 00C7 411C 4823 CCFB B0B0 75EA F071 446D A9DD > > "MP3 the king is a mighty warrior, but he's showing new wounds. > Ogg [Vorbis] is the successor to the throne ... In this case, > Open Source is not a compromise; Vorbis is the best out there." > -- Monty (Mr. Vorbis) on SlashdotEhi! You stole a signature of mine! (Alright, words are (c) Monty, but I claim compilation rights. ;^) ) That's great, just go ahead, I'm flattered. :^))) <p> -- "I was wondering if there's any kind of definitive nickname for Perl programmers, the way we call ourselves Pythonistas?" - Aahz Maruch "Masochists." - Daniel Klein Nicola Larosa - nico@tekNico.net <p><p>--- >8 ---- List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ Ogg project homepage: http://www.xiph.org/ogg/ To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'vorbis-request@xiph.org' containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered.
Domenica, Marzo 17, 2002, alle 02:15 AM, craig duncan ha scritto:> Why is there no reason? If i like an artist's CD, then i'd like to be > able to listen to the whole CD (with good fidelity). And on what basis > can you say that $13/$15 isn't too much? I feel it's far too much.Maybe I've not been able to express well what I think. I've talked about actual MusicSharing community. On the basic concept there's no controls (right now, in these days), I expressed I don't like the people use this tecnology as alternative for buying original cds. I told that 13Dollars/15Euros aren't a huge expense for something as one cd in two Months. This will became expensive when you buy every music you listen to... but this is an exception. This is my humile opinion. <p>> Where the artist gets maybe $1-$2 of that (if they're lucky) and the> production of the actual CD is under $1, why would i be willing to pay > $15 ($12+ profit) to a huge multinational corporation which, by these > kind of practices, damages the relationship between artist and listener > and makes the only genuine alternative one where the artist has to > assume the whole burden of production, distribution, marketing, etc. In > that instance, i'm certainly (quite) willing to give the artist $15 for > a CD -- if i know that all the money goes to them. But _only_ in that > circumstance.This is right, and it's a well-known problem linked to the physical supports: it squanders much money. But please don't think "I pay 15$, the artist receive 2$, the production 1$ => the bastard cd labels robbed the whole rest". Please consider that this morphology of music divulgation hides big expenses. Take in example that the distribution costs 15%, there's a 5% of recharge by the last vendor and approximatively 20% (here in Europe) on the whole price goes into the State's pockets. The multinational retain c.ca 35%. I agree with this, because they work: their work consists in the risk trying to launch artist not even known. Something goes well and produce money, something goes bad and finish to be a big expense. To know that half our money into the trash isn't good, but so it is... <p>> You're trying to define what seems to you to be a reasonable practice> and i agree that to me it sounds reasonable also. But the large media > congolmerates wouldn't agree with you. Unless they explicitly provide > something for free (a decision carefully calculated to maximize their > profits) they don't want you having _anything_ for free. By their > definition, if you got the music from someone else who was willing to > "share" it with you and the licensing rights to that music hadn't been > paid for by someone in this transaction, then it's piracy.Sincerely I don't belong to this no-global philosophy... the big multinational give us computers, cellular telephons, handheld, but even foreign culture. It's clear that they search their (economical) own profit, but I take (various type) profit too. I don't follow my behaviour to respect the "written law", simply I follow what I think correct. I think that's correct I pay for a program I like, but I think that's wrong that i should pay one more licence for any pc onto I want to install. Nevertheless, I have c.ca 120 (original) cds, and about 300Mb mp3 on my disk: these are "isolated" songs. I like they only on a whole cd, or I've not been able to find its original. <p>> Big corporations would _never_ dare allow to leave responsibility in the> hands of the people. How can you ripoff people, treat them > exploitatively and with disrespect, and at the same time treat them with > respect as if they were mature, responsible and trustworthy?You're completely right. Please consider anyway that on the net their effective power is about nothing. I ment this: since they can do nothing on the large people (they have only control over commercial companies and such), we can do what we want. Well, I hope we'll have the capabilities to take the responsability for keep respect of other interest. Finally, please excuse my english: it's not perfect and sometime it's diffucult for me to express well what I want. <p>bye <p>--- >8 ---- List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ Ogg project homepage: http://www.xiph.org/ogg/ To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'vorbis-request@xiph.org' containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered.
if this became a reality, we could start it just with the many users on this vorbis discussion list, since many of us have the same beliefs and ideas of ripping directly from cds, creating correct tags, and keeping quality high, at least to begin with. Andy =) andycool22@peoplepc.com On Fri, 15 March 2002, "Philip M. White" wrote:> > This may be unrealistic and useless, but I've been thinking about an interesting file-sharing solution. > > In my system, only Ogg Vorbis files may be shared, and they should all be directly ripped from a CD. Nothing that someone would convert from MP3, etc. While that cannot be enforceable, it should be made clear. Also, track listings should be not filenames, but the Artist and Title of the song as read from tags. > > Anyway, let's say I have ten CDs all converted to high-quality Ogg Vorbis... for example, quality level 7. Someone on the system searches for a song that I have, and decide to download it. Now here is the important part!: the downloader is presented with a menu of the quality that they wish to download! For example, if they are a broadband user, they may choose to continue at quality 7, but if they are a dial-up user, they may decide speed over quality and choose quality 2. Of course, it should not be possible to "upgrade" to anything higher than 7 if my file is encoded at level 7. > > With future peeling tools, this should be trivial to accomplish, without re-encoding the file. It's true that at first, there'd be very little to share, but if this takes off, this will be sort of a music filesharing utopia. > > TO SUMMARIZE: > > - listings read from song tags, instead of using the filename > - CD-quality songs > - bitrate peeling put to use! finally, lucrative for dial-up users! > - of course, all good features of current file-sharing tools, like multi-host download ability and de-centralization > > What do you think? Even if this is the most unrealistic and useless idea that you've heard, it's interesting nevertheless. Certainly something to wish for. > > -- Philip. > Philip M. White <pmwhite1104@yahoo.com> > A2F8 00C7 411C 4823 CCFB B0B0 75EA F071 446D A9DD > > "MP3 the king is a mighty warrior, but he's showing new wounds. > Ogg [Vorbis] is the successor to the throne ... In this case, > Open Source is not a compromise; Vorbis is the best out there." > -- Monty (Mr. Vorbis) on Slashdot > > > _________________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com > > > --- >8 ---- > List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ > Ogg project homepage: http://www.xiph.org/ogg/ > To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'vorbis-request@xiph.org' > containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. > Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered.Andy andycool22@peoplepc.com AndyCool22 on AIM ICQ # 76178574 MSN Messenger andycool22@msn.com ________________________________________________ PeoplePC: It's for people. And it's just smart. http://www.peoplepc.com --- >8 ---- List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ Ogg project homepage: http://www.xiph.org/ogg/ To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'vorbis-request@xiph.org' containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered.
I like the idea of having an Ogg only file sharing network/app but here are some other ideas which I prefer. 1. Write a file sharing app supporting only Ogg Vorbis files but use an existing network such as Gnutella or FastTrack. This way the other millions of users out there will discover Ogg files. 2. Convince the existing file sharing apps to directly support Ogg files. The Ogg programmers could provide whatever code is necessary for this purpose. Andy wrote> if this became a reality, we could start it just with the > many users on this vorbis discussion list, since many of us > have the same beliefs and ideas of ripping directly from cds, > creating correct tags, and keeping quality high, at least to > begin with. > > Andy =) > andycool22@peoplepc.com--- >8 ---- List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ Ogg project homepage: http://www.xiph.org/ogg/ To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'vorbis-request@xiph.org' containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered.