search for: peeling

Hi all, I recently started to study the Ogg Vorbis codec and found an interesting feature called bitrate peeling [1]. Do you know where I can find more information on this topic? E.g., how is the actual peeling being implemented, what are the performance results in terms of resulting quality, what are the requirements for bitrate peeling (can it be applied to any ogg vorbis stream), ...? Also, currently I am...

I was up late last night, and i had a thought on peeling that would probably provide 100% accurate peeling data to a decoder, but take a maximum of 1101 times normal time to encode (taking into account the range from q-1 to q10 ). ay you want to encode a track at q10, but you want it to be peelable. the 1101 encoder would encode from the source at every...

>> Is bit-peeling going to be real (or just a rumor forever)? > Apparently the RC3 streams are capable of being bit peeled, however the > tool to do so was looking likely to be quite complex. I believe the plan > was to have RC4 produce streams that left better hints for the peeling > tool, so as to mak...

> From: Beni Cherniavsky [mailto:cben@users.sf.net] > Sent: 26 September 2003 10:35 > To: vorbis@xiph.org > Subject: Re: [vorbis] streaming > > - Vorbis is designed to allow "peeling": if you truncate packets, you > still get a legal Vorbis stream but with lower quality. This should > allow very effecient streaming of multiple bitrates from the same > file (encoded at the highest bitrate). This works but > unfortunately, the current encoder and peeler...

Monty, You helped me out quite a bit the other day, but I just wanted to make sure I understand something. The "ideal" way to do bit rate peeling is to have the encoder set the file up to be conducive to the peeling process, and the streamer would be the device that actually does the peeling. Am I correct in assuming, then, that the decoder would think that the file it is receiving was (more or less) simply encoded at the lower bit rate...

Hello all, Just a quick note to let you all know that I have placed a bounty on Lauchpad to get bitrate peeling added to Vorbis. It is a feature that I think we would all like to have, and would probably pay something to get, but it hasn't been done. My request to you is to add to the bounty. I have seeded it with US$20, which is not enough to motivate a developer to get it done, but I am a starving stu...

Hi All, Let me ask this question of the group: When bit rate peeling becomes available, how will the quality of the peeled Vorbis file compare to a file encoded at the target quality directly from the original? So, for: a.wav --> b.ogg (at q6) --> c.ogg (at q2) a.wav --------------------> d.ogg (at q2) how are c.ogg and d.ogg likely to co...

After reading the recent thread [http://www.xiph.org/archives/vorbis/200211/0057.html] on the vorbis list about bitrate peeling, I was wondering if it would be possible for xiph.org to post a specification, outline, flowchart, or a drawing on a napkin of what the basic operations of bit peeling would entail. If there was some sort of starting point, then it may be a little more inviting for another programmer to step u...

I just read some of the discussion on the list about 'bitrate peeling' and remembered an interview of Monty that I have read recently. In it he says that Vorbis uses MCDTs <sp> and that these are theoretically reversable. And now, I learn that theoretically we can use bitrate peeling to make smaller files from larger ones, and that leads to my question. C...

Hi: A friend asked me a question that I was unable to answer, so I'm posting it here. Can files created by the beta4 encoder be peeled down when that becomes available, or is the ability to encode peelable files also not implemented? My friend wants to know if they should switch over now or hold off until this becomes possible. Geoff. --- >8 ---- List archives:

first, congrats to monty and the whole crew for getting this close to 1.0. it's a monumental achievement reflecting a huge amount of hard work -- kudos! econd, i know the bitrate peeling feature has been pushed back until after 1.0 is out. but i'm wondering -- will oggs created with a 1.0 encoder be peelable with an as-yet-unreleased utility, or do "peelable oggs" have to be created that way in the first place? in other words, if peeling is the most important feature...

...an 2 > conditionals, > > LICM would fail to move loop invariant from the second conditional > because loop rotation didn't peel all the conditionals. > > My observation is from a while ago so happy to be corrected. > > > > Have you considered using the existing LoopPeeling infrastructure (part of > loop unrolling) to do the peeling? It already peels off iterations from the > start up to a threshold, if it makes a condition in the loop body > invariant. > > I am not entirely sure about the exact cases/conditions that the patch > targets (the test you...

Icecast / Vorbis community, I have a icecast/ices audio streaming server from which I stream ogg audio files. I know that I can encode different streams for low, medium and /or high quality broadcasts (for example). However, I would like to have one stream that uses bit rate peeling to send the user the highest quality stream that their bandwidth will allow. Has any one done this? Does any one know if this currently possible? Thank you, Alan Young PS. I have the tools to bit rate peel a file, I just don’t know how to get it to work with icecast/ices. <p><p>--...

Hi I read in http://grahammitchell.net/writings/vorbis_intro.html > Ogg Vorbis files support "bitrate peeling", which means you can produce > a lower bitrate file from a higher bitrate file without re-encoding and > at the same quality as if you'd encoded the file directly into the lower > bitrate from the original file. No other lossy audio codec currently > supports this. This is ve...

Hi Jay, > Are you saying that, in the LLVM IR, it would be legal to have an > llvm.eh.exception that *isn't* dominated by convokes (because there's > a direct branch to that catch block), and in that case the call > returns an undefined value? this is already the case (with invoke substituted for convoke). And it would be up to codegen to "peel it > out into its own

After reading the documentation on the different types of channel coupling I began to wonder what effects this might have on bit peeling. Say for instance an audio file is encoded at a rather high bit rate with channel coupling type "X". Later on the same file is streamed, and is peeled down to a much lower bit rate in the process. However at this lower bit rate, channel coupling type "Y" is much more effective...

...;ve got to say, having a player that supports Ogg Vorbis has really turned things around for everybody. We're still struggling with higher bitrate Vorbis streams, but that is only because of our terribly underpowered DSP. Anyway, to the point of my email. Recently the discussion of bitrate peeling has been floating around, and one of our members pointed out this Ogg Traffic: http://www.vorbis.com/ot/20030415.html#id2728830 In that section, it alludes to the fact that there isn't enough development interest or time, and that donations could help encourage the process. So how much do...

>> Are you saying that, in the LLVM IR, it would be legal to have an >> llvm.eh.exception that *isn't* dominated by convokes (because there's >> a direct branch to that catch block), and in that case the call >> returns an undefined value? > > this is already the case (with invoke substituted for convoke). Good to know. It would be nice if this was clearly

...money. Sadly I don't have the kind of money that I think causes "influence" :-) But, I figure that a number of us together might. My proposal is simple, set up a escrow account to be paid out upon the meeting of a number of goals: goal a. Document the changes required for bitrate peeling to be implemented. These changes should be documented to a level where a person with reasonable knowledge of the OGG Vorbis format could implement these changes. goal b. Implement the required changes in the OGG Vorbis encoder to allow for bitrate peeling. goal c. Implement the loss-less stre...

...ity, >> >> I have a icecast/ices audio streaming server from which I stream ogg >> audio files. I know that I can encode different streams for low, >> medium and /or high quality broadcasts (for example). However, I >> would like to have one stream that uses bit rate peeling to send the >> user the highest quality stream that their bandwidth will allow. > > That would be a ideal solution but strictly speaking bitrate peeling is > a todo feature. The spec allows for it but the current encoders are not > tuned enough for doing that sort of thing well e...