I'm trying to understand something that just doesn't seem to compute. How can companies like Cisco justify selling their hard phones for as much as they do? I know there is a matter of recouping R&D costs but when you look at the iPhone with all its amazing features for less than $500.00 it just doesn't make sense. Am I the only one that thinks this? Roy Anciso Director of Technology Manistee Intermediate School District 772 East Parkdale Avenue Manistee, MI 49660 Ph: 231-723-4264 Fx: 231-398-3036 roy at manistee.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.digium.com/pipermail/asterisk-users/attachments/20080318/11e1a93c/attachment.htm
--Original Message Text--- From: Anciso, Roy Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2008 23:03:52 -0400 Hardphone SIP phone costs Im trying to understand something that just doesnt seem to compute. How can companies like Cisco justify selling their hard phones for as much as they do? I know there is a matter of recouping R&D costs but when you look at the iPhone with all its amazing features for less than $500.00 it just doesnt make sense. Am I the only one that thinks this? Yep, Cisco phones cost a lot. Too much in my opinion. Do they work. Yes, they work well. But as long as I can get Polycom and Aastra phones that work as well or better why pay the Cisco premium? I once heard a rumour that the Cisco phones were actually made by Polycom for Cisco under contract. Not sure if that's true or not. Michael -- Michael Graves mgraves<at>mstvp.com http://blog.mgraves.org o713-861-4005 c713-201-1262 sip:mjgraves at pixelpower.onsip.com skype mjgraves 54245 at fwd.pulver.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.digium.com/pipermail/asterisk-users/attachments/20080318/18a0b9fc/attachment.htm
> when you look at the iPhone with all its amazing features for less than$500.00 it just doesn't make sense. Am I the only one that thinks this? Remember that the service providers such as AT&T, Cingular, Sprint, Verizon and so forth, subsidize the cost of the phones because they make it up over the course of the contract. Hence the reason that some phones that have an initial cost when sold with a 1 year contract may be free initially with a 2 year contract. Even some VoIP phones and ATA's are done this way but only through service providers. Take the subsidies away and that iPhone is pretty pricey. John -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.digium.com/pipermail/asterisk-users/attachments/20080319/dd3a78d1/attachment.htm
Anciso, Roy wrote:> > I ? m trying to understand something that just doesn?t seem to > compute. How can companies like Cisco justify selling their hard > phones for as much as they do? I know there is a matter of recouping > R&D costs but when you look at the iPhone with all its amazing > features for less than $500.00 it just doesn ? t make sense. Am I the > only one that thinks this? >Hi Roy, Although Cisco generally make good gear, it does tend to be over-featured and over-priced. It's due to two main factors, branding and lock-in. Branding:- NoLogo by Naomi Klein is a good primer (regardless of which side of the fence you sit), see also H. C. Andersen's "The Emperor's New Clothes" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Emperor's_New_Clothes Lock-in:- If you've already bought into The Brand (eg Cisco's Call Manager software) you don't have a choice if you want all the features. You _could_ try telling the boss that the $100k+ that was spent on The Brand was a waste of money, that it could have been done for $20k with a mix of Brands, with more relevant features and that you're _sure_ the VP would understand .... but then, no one got fired for buying IBM. regards, Drew -- Drew Gibson Systems Administrator OANDA Corporation www.oanda.com
On Mar 19, 2008, at 12:16 PM, asterisk-users-request at lists.digium.com wrote:> I understand the maximizing pricing and branding aspect of phones but > when you look at feature set it just doesn't make sense. And as > far as > purchasing the phone you can get it without a contract at the same > price. > > When I starting thinking about it, can anyone else see a time when > desk > phones are replaced by smart phones? Why would a company pay for work > cell phone and desk phone when one device could potentially do it all? > > I know there are issues that need to be considered like safety > (911) for > one. But can anyone else see where I'm coming from on this.We use Polycom hard phones and Linksys ATAs (now owned by Cisco) since both have good prices, good feature lists and are very configurable. I couldn't see paying $500 for a Cisco phone when I can get a Polycom 601 for $250 that does more than I really even need at. Our old PBX phones were fairly pricey, as I recall. As for why a company would purchase hard phones, several reasons. First, we are replacing many hard phones with computers. We have a custom application and have been moving folks main numbers to use the computer. We can make it "ring" externally and then they just put their headset on and hit an fkey to answer. The reason to not use a cell, in addition to potentially delaying an emergency response, is reliability. In any kind of emergency, they just don't work. And coverage and dropped calls are a problem, especially in office buildings. However, professionalism is, IMHO, the main reason. Cell phones sound terrible, generally have a huge delay (often with a related echo), they fade in and out, etc. I actively don't deal with companies where their sales people are on cell phones, and I have indeed actually to go with other vendors based on this. If you can't be professional enough to have an office with a real phone, why would I want to trust you''ll support anything you sell? In the grand scheme of things, phone are cheap. With SIP phones, employees can move their phone to another office if they move and just plug it in. Companies can also better monitor employees. Norman Franke Answering Service for Directors, Inc. www.myasd.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.digium.com/pipermail/asterisk-users/attachments/20080319/16e75958/attachment.htm
On Mar 19, 2008, at 2:48 PM, asterisk-users-request at lists.digium.com wrote:> My mobile does not sound terrible, does not have echo, does not > fade in or > out, and the last time I used it to call the emergency services, I got > through straight away. I've not had a dropped call for a long time > either > (going through tunnels on the train, or over Dartmoor excepted)I've never heard a cell phone on the other end that I couldn't tell was a cell phone, even on a good day. They compress the audio so much it's rather obvious. That may vary by carrier, AT&T and Verizon being the largest in the US are both pretty awful. A fun test is to call a landline from your cell in the same room and note now long the delay is. I find it long enough to interfere with conversations, people talking over each other (especially when both are on cells from different carriers.) None of the carriers really offer a phone that can do SIP, as far as I've seen. As soon as the iPhone software 2.0 is out, there will be one for that. Norman Franke Answering Service for Directors, Inc. www.myasd.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.digium.com/pipermail/asterisk-users/attachments/20080319/dfe4e689/attachment.htm
On Mar 21, 2008, at 11:48 AM, asterisk-users-request at lists.digium.com wrote:> I'm getting the impression that the telcos in the US are basically > shafting you because of the monopoly they have. More intersted in > keeping > themselves happy than their customers. I think it's nice I have a > choice > of 5 major mobile phone carriers in the UK, and well over 100 ISPs for > broadband via the BT Wholesale network.That's nearly always the case in the US. 50 years ago, it was great since we had excellent and widespread service, but now they just aren't keeping up with technology. The recording industry is another similar monopoly.>> A fun test is to call a landline from your cell in the same room and >> note now long the delay is. I find it long enough to interfere with >> conversations, people talking over each other (especially when >> both are >> on cells from different carriers.) > > There is a delay - but I've never really noticed it unless I play > tricks > on the network like that. It's certianly nothing like making a call to > Austrailia!Never called Australia, but I've found cell-to-cell delays enough to interfere with normal conversations.> Don't rely on the carriers to provide you anything - there are > plenty of > phones on the market which do SIP now - most modern Nokias do. I > use an > E90 Communicator, but the E95 is popular too, so I'm experimenting > with > using my mobile as my "one" phone, via Wi-Fi/SIP when I'm in the > home/office and GSM/3G when out and about. It's not perfect yet, but > getting there.Then you need to pay for the handset yourself without discount. Of late, they refuse to discount their rate or shorten the term if you provide your own handset.> (And 10:1 gives you a SIP service on the iPhone that's locked into > their > own service ;-)Since PJSIP is being ported, and I am a registered iPhone developer, I can assure you, I won't have a locked in SIP client for the iPhone. :) Norman Franke ASD, Inc. www.myasd.com