CentOS - May 2005 - Official CentOS CD/DVD Vendor Program

All,

I would like to announce our Official CentOS CD/DVD Vendor Program.

We currently have 3 vendors, and 2 more who are putting together their
information. (Not bad ... the official program has been going for less
than 12 hours :)

The details of the program (how to get in it, what they give back to the
CentOS Project, etc.) are here:
http://www.centos.org/images/CentOS_CD_Vendors.pdf

Here is the page that contains the current vendors:
http://www.centos.org/vendors

The CentOS project has looked at the vendors listed, and we highly
recommend them if you want to buy CentOS CDs or DVDs.  They give back to
the CentOS Project for every CentOS CD/DVD they sell and we greatly
appreciate it.

If you are a CD/DVD vendor and are interested in being in our official
program, see the above guide.

If you are a CentOS user looking to buy CDs or DVDs, please use our
official vendors to get all your pre-made CDs or DVDs (not just CentOS
products) ... and if you are buying other products from them because
they are official CentOS vendors, let them know that is the reason :)

Thanks,
Johnny Hughes
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Johnny Hughes wrote:
>All,
>
>I would like to announce our Official CentOS CD/DVD Vendor Program.
>
>We currently have 3 vendors, and 2 more who are putting together their
>information. (Not bad ... the official program has been going for less
>than 12 hours :)
>
>The details of the program (how to get in it, what they give back to the
>CentOS Project, etc.) are here:
>http://www.centos.org/images/CentOS_CD_Vendors.pdf
>
>  
>
What's the point?  I checked out linux cd mall.  They charge $12.50 for 
the CD set (or DVD) and CentOS makes ONE DOLLAR.  Unless you envision 
tens of thousands of people buying CDs, it hardly seems like a 
worthwhile endeavor unless you're the CD distributor.

Why not just find a way to make it easier for people to donate directly 
to the project instead of creating a needless middleman who is taking 
92% of the money for each CD/DVD set sold?

Hell, for 92% of the profit, I'd be more than happy to sit at home and 
burn DVDs all day.  Where do I sign?  8-)

Cheers,

C

My $0.02 ...

From: Chris Mauritz <chrism at imntv.com>
> What's the point?
Awareness, partnerships, retail notoriety and most of all, a starting point
for now.  You have to start somewhere.
> I checked out linux cd mall.  They charge $12.50 for the CD set (or DVD)
> and CentOS makes ONE DOLLAR.  Unless you envision tens of thousands
> of people buying CDs, it hardly seems like a worthwhile endeavor
I can envision that volume per year.
> unless you're the CD distributor.
The CD distributor has the economies-of-scale in the fact that they already
have a built infrastructure, web front, relationships, etc... that CentOS can
tap.  For CentOS to build the same infrastructure, it would cost far more
per unit sold -- at least at, again, "a starting point for now."
> Why not just find a way to make it easier for people to donate directly 
> to the project instead of creating a needless middleman who is taking 
> 92% of the money for each CD/DVD set sold?
Again, costs involved are relevative here.
> Hell, for 92% of the profit,
No, that's 92% of the _revenue_, and _not_ the "profit" (sometimes
I think
some Linux advocates need a refresher course in basic microeconomics ;-).
There are more costs involved than just CD duplication here.
> I'd be more than happy to sit at home and burn DVDs all day.
And take orders?  And handle shipping?  And resolve issues with the
site, customers, MC/VISA complaince on e-commerce, etc...?  You can
only do so much on your own before you need someone already doing it
who can do it for much cheaper.
> Where do I sign?  8-)
You sign next to "I will learn how the infrastructure and operational
costs of e-commerce works before I speak again."  ;->

More seriously now, does everyone have to question everything
around here?  You don't think the management hasn't thought of these
things?  Why does everyone seem to believe they know better than the
management who not only volunteers their time, but puts in the hours
to be productive, including all the "less fun stuff" in the logistics
and
attention to detail?

More pertinent, if you make posts like this, that are only include 5% of
the actual details involved with doing such (and expose what can only
be termed ignorance of the other 95%), how seriously do you think
people can take your comments?  I didn't.  ;-ppp


--
Bryan J. Smith   mailto:b.j.smith at ieee.org

From: Chris Mauritz <chrism at imntv.com>
> If this was going to be a 100 unit/day or 1000 unit/day affair, I'd 
> agree with you, but it simply isn't.  One or two people with cheap CD 
> and DVD duplicators, a paypal merchant account, and some time on their 
> hands is probably still overkill for the volume of sales, especially 
> when the product is available for free to anyone with a broadband 
> connection and a burner.
Capacity planning.  It's better to make only $500 and miss out on $1,000
than to have orders of $10,000 and only be able to service $2,500.
> No, not really.  What this says to me is that the CentOS team is doing 
> all the labour and some unecessary middleman is skimming the cream off 
> the top.  Wouldn't you like to see the CentOS project receive more of a
> share of the take for doing most of the work?  I would.
No, CentOS is focusing on what it does best and tapping others to do what
they do best.

But as someone else pointed out, form a CD/DVD duplication reseller and
make a better offer and CentOS will likely take you up on it!
> Spare me the condescending remarks.  You knew what I meant.
You mega-oversimplified, so no I did not.  It's one thing to volunteer,
that's great.  In fact, at first, I thought that's what you were doing.

But then you started to post all these things that just were like a
"slap in face."  Looking from the viewpoint of those CentOS managers
who "put the time" and, more importantly, the _detail_ in on this, 
you showed you didn't have the faintest idea of what was involved.

Again, as someone else pointed out, form a CD/DVD duplication reseller
and make a better offer and CentOS will likely take you up on it!
In fact, although there are the "minimal requirements" of $1/set under
this plan, there's _nothing_ stopping different CD/DVD duplication resellers
from playing a game of "one-up-manship" to gain the title of
"highest
proceeds" to CentOS.

So instead of being so negative on what the leaders of this project have
done so far, from a standpoint that was rather "shallow," why not be
constructive and go ahead and offer to be a CD/DVD duplication reseller!
The terms of the program are there -- go for it!  You're open to it!  ;->
> Looking back at the volume in the "demonizing" thread, I think I
don't
> have nearly the same amount of free time to spend jousting about 
> something so trivial in this mailing list with you.  You're obviously a
> very opinionated guy
Oh, very, very much so.  I am extremely opinionated.  As far as "free
time," I write for part of my living, and much of it comes from discussions
on boards like this.  As far as my "day job," it's largely 8x5,
one advantage
of being a traveling consultant that does more "architecture/design"
than
"analysis/support."
> and often full of very sage advice to go along with the voluminous
> opinion.
Opinion to one is experience to another.  I have _no_problem_ taking
years to gain the trust of people.  I think credentials don't mean squat,
and trust comes from hearing people say things and finding out if they
are applicable and useful over time.  Again, even years.
> But I found this reply to be more than a bit obnoxious.
As did I your "volunteering."  It's one thing to honestly
"volunteer."
It's another to belittle the initiative of the managers of this project
who obviously took far more time, attention to detail and actually
work to get the program going.

There is no reason why you can't "volunteer" under this program by
becoming a CD/DVD reseller yourself, under the same terms as any
other.  If you honestly believe you can do it better and cheaper than
the current vendors who are signed up, then please do!  We would
all benefit if you did.

That's all I was saying.  And yes, I did berrate much of what you said
for the reason I just explained.
> The point of my message is that it seems like the CentOS guys
> are doing all the heavy lifting and companies that (at least to me) 
> add very little value are taking the lion's share of the revenue for 
> these CD/DVD sets.
As are arm-chair users who don't take the time to understand the
details involved on things like this.  I have taken what at least one
other has said and re-gurgitated what you _can_ do under the program's
terms that does _exactly_ what you want to do.  So I suggest you
consider becoming a CD/DVD duplicator/reseller yourself then.

BTW, I might not be involved with CentOS, but I'm trying to do my (small/
too-small-to-even-speak-of) part on Fedora, which affects both RHEL
and CentOS.  And I can fully appreciate all of what the CentOS project
does.



--
Bryan J. Smith   mailto:b.j.smith at ieee.org

Johnny Hughes wrote:
>All,
>
>I would like to announce our Official CentOS CD/DVD Vendor Program.
>  
>
Have you guys considered setting up a storefront like what's available 
at CafePress?  I'm not suggesting selling CDs there, but a CentOS mug 
and some shirts would be pretty cool to have.  Who knows, others might 
like them too.

Just a suggestion,

Shawn M. Jones