Xen users - Feb 2011 - Home Xen hypervisor for master''s project

Hi all,

Could somebody please help me with a few hardware questions?

I am building a home Xen server to implement a Xen Cloud for my
master''s project comparing SOA.
I will probably use Linux guest OSs, but I may want to use a Windows
guest for home PC use.

I have been trying to make a decision on the CPU and motherboard to
purchase and really could use some help.

I have read the wiki post at:
http://wiki.xen.org/xenwiki/VTdHowTo?highlight=(vtd)

1) For my purposes, is IOMMU important?
If so, then also, for my purposes, it looks like the ASUS Crosshair IV
Formula may be a good choice.

** I would appreciate any input, as to the Crosshair or other, like the M4A89TD.

Now for the CPU and I have really not been able to determine how many
cores is optimal for this server.
I have a knowledgeable coworker who says that three cores is optimal
and I have not been able to find information to support that or
dispute it.

2) The Phenom II series seems to be attractive, so I have been
concentrating on those, but can someone also help me with the X3, X4,
or X6 decision?

Thanks,
Joe

_______________________________________________
Xen-users mailing list
Xen-users@lists.xensource.com
http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users

On Sat, Feb 19, 2011 at 8:02 PM, Joseph Commisso <commissoje@gmail.com>
wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> Could somebody please help me with a few hardware questions?
>
> I am building a home Xen server to implement a Xen Cloud for my
> master''s project comparing SOA.
> I will probably use Linux guest OSs, but I may want to use a Windows
> guest for home PC use.
>
Can you go into more detail about what features you plan to implement?

Also, what type of interfaces do you expect to provide to users? How
will they connect? etc.
> I have been trying to make a decision on the CPU and motherboard to
> purchase and really could use some help.
>
> I have read the wiki post at:
> http://wiki.xen.org/xenwiki/VTdHowTo?highlight=(vtd)
>
> 1) For my purposes, is IOMMU important?
> If so, then also, for my purposes, it looks like the ASUS Crosshair IV
> Formula may be a good choice.
>
> ** I would appreciate any input, as to the Crosshair or other, like the
M4A89TD.
>
> Now for the CPU and I have really not been able to determine how many
> cores is optimal for this server.
> I have a knowledgeable coworker who says that three cores is optimal
> and I have not been able to find information to support that or
> dispute it.
>
> 2) The Phenom II series seems to be attractive, so I have been
> concentrating on those, but can someone also help me with the X3, X4,
> or X6 decision?
>
> Thanks,
> Joe
>
> _______________________________________________
> Xen-users mailing list
> Xen-users@lists.xensource.com
> http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users
>
_______________________________________________
Xen-users mailing list
Xen-users@lists.xensource.com
http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users

On Sat, Feb 19, 2011 at 7:21 PM, Todd Deshane <todd.deshane@xen.org>
wrote:
> On Sat, Feb 19, 2011 at 8:02 PM, Joseph Commisso
<commissoje@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hi all,
>>
>> Could somebody please help me with a few hardware questions?
>>
>> I am building a home Xen server to implement a Xen Cloud for my
>> master''s project comparing SOA.
>> I will probably use Linux guest OSs, but I may want to use a Windows
>> guest for home PC use.
>>
>
> Can you go into more detail about what features you plan to implement?
Well, I really do not know too much about Cloud computing, grids
(Globus), or parallel programming, all of which I would like to touch
upon or possibly go into more depth.
I was thinking of implementing a grid on the cloud, but then I saw
documentation referring to a cloud on a grid, so when I get there, I
will work that one out.
My instructor said to compare what I do against SOA, which will give
me something to work on there as well.

I am fairly proficient with Linux administration with some abilities
on other areas, like networking, hardware and some minor software
programming.
So, I do not know what I will need to implement at this point. I hope
to learn as I go and see if I can come up with something useful.
I want to build this virtual server at home, since the machines that I
have access to at school are slow and also because school is 50 miles
away and I have no other classes to attend, so working at home on this
seems like the way to do it.
>
> Also, what type of interfaces do you expect to provide to users? How
> will they connect? etc.
What I know how to do is use xdmcp for remote sessions.
If I do set up a grid or cluster, then there may be some interface
which that uses.
Again, I hope to be able to find out when I get there.
I plan on choosing a motherboard/CPU and then building the rest of the
machine around those.
I have a coworker who suggested the AMD line and said that due to the
way the CPU connects to the bus and the rest of the motherboard, that
three cores is optimal.
I did not get a chance to talk to him about a hypervisor machine and
whether that also applied to the three cores.
>
>> I have been trying to make a decision on the CPU and motherboard to
>> purchase and really could use some help.
>>
>> I have read the wiki post at:
>> http://wiki.xen.org/xenwiki/VTdHowTo?highlight=(vtd)
>>
>> 1) For my purposes, is IOMMU important?
>> If so, then also, for my purposes, it looks like the ASUS Crosshair IV
>> Formula may be a good choice.
>>
>> ** I would appreciate any input, as to the Crosshair or other, like the
M4A89TD.
>>
>> Now for the CPU and I have really not been able to determine how many
>> cores is optimal for this server.
>> I have a knowledgeable coworker who says that three cores is optimal
>> and I have not been able to find information to support that or
>> dispute it.
>>
>> 2) The Phenom II series seems to be attractive, so I have been
>> concentrating on those, but can someone also help me with the X3, X4,
>> or X6 decision?
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Joe
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Xen-users mailing list
>> Xen-users@lists.xensource.com
>> http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users
>>
>
_______________________________________________
Xen-users mailing list
Xen-users@lists.xensource.com
http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users

On Sun, Feb 20, 2011 at 1:02 AM, Joseph Commisso <commissoje@gmail.com>
wrote:
> On Sat, Feb 19, 2011 at 7:21 PM, Todd Deshane <todd.deshane@xen.org>
wrote:
>> On Sat, Feb 19, 2011 at 8:02 PM, Joseph Commisso
<commissoje@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>> Could somebody please help me with a few hardware questions?
>>>
>>> I am building a home Xen server to implement a Xen Cloud for my
>>> master''s project comparing SOA.
>>> I will probably use Linux guest OSs, but I may want to use a
Windows
>>> guest for home PC use.
>>>
>>
>> Can you go into more detail about what features you plan to implement?
>
> Well, I really do not know too much about Cloud computing, grids
> (Globus), or parallel programming, all of which I would like to touch
> upon or possibly go into more depth.
You might find these useful for background (you or your school will
need an ACM account):
http://techpack.acm.org/cloud/
http://techpack.acm.org/parallel/
> I was thinking of implementing a grid on the cloud, but then I saw
> documentation referring to a cloud on a grid, so when I get there, I
> will work that one out.
> My instructor said to compare what I do against SOA, which will give
> me something to work on there as well.
>
> I am fairly proficient with Linux administration with some abilities
> on other areas, like networking, hardware and some minor software
> programming.
> So, I do not know what I will need to implement at this point. I hope
> to learn as I go and see if I can come up with something useful.
> I want to build this virtual server at home, since the machines that I
> have access to at school are slow and also because school is 50 miles
> away and I have no other classes to attend, so working at home on this
> seems like the way to do it.
>>
>> Also, what type of interfaces do you expect to provide to users? How
>> will they connect? etc.
>
> What I know how to do is use xdmcp for remote sessions.
> If I do set up a grid or cluster, then there may be some interface
> which that uses.
> Again, I hope to be able to find out when I get there.
> I plan on choosing a motherboard/CPU and then building the rest of the
> machine around those.
> I have a coworker who suggested the AMD line and said that due to the
> way the CPU connects to the bus and the rest of the motherboard, that
> three cores is optimal.
> I did not get a chance to talk to him about a hypervisor machine and
> whether that also applied to the three cores.
>
>>
>>> I have been trying to make a decision on the CPU and motherboard to
>>> purchase and really could use some help.
>>>
>>> I have read the wiki post at:
>>> http://wiki.xen.org/xenwiki/VTdHowTo?highlight=(vtd)
>>>
>>> 1) For my purposes, is IOMMU important?
>>> If so, then also, for my purposes, it looks like the ASUS Crosshair
IV
>>> Formula may be a good choice.
>>>
>>> ** I would appreciate any input, as to the Crosshair or other, like
the M4A89TD.
>>>
>>> Now for the CPU and I have really not been able to determine how
many
>>> cores is optimal for this server.
>>> I have a knowledgeable coworker who says that three cores is
optimal
>>> and I have not been able to find information to support that or
>>> dispute it.
>>>
>>> 2) The Phenom II series seems to be attractive, so I have been
>>> concentrating on those, but can someone also help me with the X3,
X4,
>>> or X6 decision?
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Joe
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Xen-users mailing list
>>> Xen-users@lists.xensource.com
>>> http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users
>>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Xen-users mailing list
> Xen-users@lists.xensource.com
> http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users
>
_______________________________________________
Xen-users mailing list
Xen-users@lists.xensource.com
http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users

I recently built a home Xen server to both play with and run a few servers at my
house. I decided I''d spend a little more money and get server grade
gear and have been very happy with what I have so far:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820139024
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819117225
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813182235

You''ll need a few disks and a case. I used software RAID and used the 6
SATA connectors on the board along with an old Coolermaster case. I purchased 3x
5.25 to 5x3.5" hdd adapter to make things easier. Next I''ll buy
one of these cases to replace the Coolermaster that it''s currently
running in:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811219038&cm_re=4224-_-11-219-038-_-Product


-----Original Message-----
From: xen-users-bounces@lists.xensource.com
[mailto:xen-users-bounces@lists.xensource.com] On Behalf Of Todd Deshane
Sent: Saturday, February 19, 2011 8:11 PM
To: Joseph Commisso
Cc: Xen-users@lists.xensource.com
Subject: Re: [Xen-users] Home Xen hypervisor for master''s project

On Sun, Feb 20, 2011 at 1:02 AM, Joseph Commisso <commissoje@gmail.com>
wrote:
> On Sat, Feb 19, 2011 at 7:21 PM, Todd Deshane <todd.deshane@xen.org>
wrote:
>> On Sat, Feb 19, 2011 at 8:02 PM, Joseph Commisso
<commissoje@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>> Could somebody please help me with a few hardware questions?
>>>
>>> I am building a home Xen server to implement a Xen Cloud for my 
>>> master''s project comparing SOA.
>>> I will probably use Linux guest OSs, but I may want to use a
Windows
>>> guest for home PC use.
>>>
>>
>> Can you go into more detail about what features you plan to implement?
>
> Well, I really do not know too much about Cloud computing, grids 
> (Globus), or parallel programming, all of which I would like to touch 
> upon or possibly go into more depth.
You might find these useful for background (you or your school will need an ACM
account):
http://techpack.acm.org/cloud/
http://techpack.acm.org/parallel/
> I was thinking of implementing a grid on the cloud, but then I saw 
> documentation referring to a cloud on a grid, so when I get there, I 
> will work that one out.
> My instructor said to compare what I do against SOA, which will give 
> me something to work on there as well.
>
> I am fairly proficient with Linux administration with some abilities 
> on other areas, like networking, hardware and some minor software 
> programming.
> So, I do not know what I will need to implement at this point. I hope 
> to learn as I go and see if I can come up with something useful.
> I want to build this virtual server at home, since the machines that I 
> have access to at school are slow and also because school is 50 miles 
> away and I have no other classes to attend, so working at home on this 
> seems like the way to do it.
>>
>> Also, what type of interfaces do you expect to provide to users? How 
>> will they connect? etc.
>
> What I know how to do is use xdmcp for remote sessions.
> If I do set up a grid or cluster, then there may be some interface 
> which that uses.
> Again, I hope to be able to find out when I get there.
> I plan on choosing a motherboard/CPU and then building the rest of the 
> machine around those.
> I have a coworker who suggested the AMD line and said that due to the 
> way the CPU connects to the bus and the rest of the motherboard, that 
> three cores is optimal.
> I did not get a chance to talk to him about a hypervisor machine and 
> whether that also applied to the three cores.
>
>>
>>> I have been trying to make a decision on the CPU and motherboard to
>>> purchase and really could use some help.
>>>
>>> I have read the wiki post at:
>>> http://wiki.xen.org/xenwiki/VTdHowTo?highlight=(vtd)
>>>
>>> 1) For my purposes, is IOMMU important?
>>> If so, then also, for my purposes, it looks like the ASUS Crosshair
>>> IV Formula may be a good choice.
>>>
>>> ** I would appreciate any input, as to the Crosshair or other, like
the M4A89TD.
>>>
>>> Now for the CPU and I have really not been able to determine how 
>>> many cores is optimal for this server.
>>> I have a knowledgeable coworker who says that three cores is
optimal
>>> and I have not been able to find information to support that or 
>>> dispute it.
>>>
>>> 2) The Phenom II series seems to be attractive, so I have been 
>>> concentrating on those, but can someone also help me with the X3, 
>>> X4, or X6 decision?
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Joe
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Xen-users mailing list
>>> Xen-users@lists.xensource.com
>>> http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users
>>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Xen-users mailing list
> Xen-users@lists.xensource.com
> http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users
>
_______________________________________________
Xen-users mailing list
Xen-users@lists.xensource.com
http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users

_______________________________________________
Xen-users mailing list
Xen-users@lists.xensource.com
http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users

On Sat, Feb 19, 2011 at 8:10 PM, Todd Deshane <todd.deshane@xen.org>
wrote:
> On Sun, Feb 20, 2011 at 1:02 AM, Joseph Commisso
<commissoje@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Sat, Feb 19, 2011 at 7:21 PM, Todd Deshane
<todd.deshane@xen.org> wrote:
>>> On Sat, Feb 19, 2011 at 8:02 PM, Joseph Commisso
<commissoje@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Hi all,
>>>>
>>>> Could somebody please help me with a few hardware questions?
>>>>
>>>> I am building a home Xen server to implement a Xen Cloud for my
>>>> master''s project comparing SOA.
>>>> I will probably use Linux guest OSs, but I may want to use a
Windows
>>>> guest for home PC use.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Can you go into more detail about what features you plan to
implement?
>>
>> Well, I really do not know too much about Cloud computing, grids
>> (Globus), or parallel programming, all of which I would like to touch
>> upon or possibly go into more depth.
>
> You might find these useful for background (you or your school will
> need an ACM account):
> http://techpack.acm.org/cloud/
> http://techpack.acm.org/parallel/
I will review these links when I get to work on Monday.
I think my employer subscribes to ACM.
Thanks
>
>> I was thinking of implementing a grid on the cloud, but then I saw
>> documentation referring to a cloud on a grid, so when I get there, I
>> will work that one out.
>> My instructor said to compare what I do against SOA, which will give
>> me something to work on there as well.
>>
>> I am fairly proficient with Linux administration with some abilities
>> on other areas, like networking, hardware and some minor software
>> programming.
>> So, I do not know what I will need to implement at this point. I hope
>> to learn as I go and see if I can come up with something useful.
>> I want to build this virtual server at home, since the machines that I
>> have access to at school are slow and also because school is 50 miles
>> away and I have no other classes to attend, so working at home on this
>> seems like the way to do it.
>>>
>>> Also, what type of interfaces do you expect to provide to users?
How
>>> will they connect? etc.
>>
>> What I know how to do is use xdmcp for remote sessions.
>> If I do set up a grid or cluster, then there may be some interface
>> which that uses.
>> Again, I hope to be able to find out when I get there.
>> I plan on choosing a motherboard/CPU and then building the rest of the
>> machine around those.
>> I have a coworker who suggested the AMD line and said that due to the
>> way the CPU connects to the bus and the rest of the motherboard, that
>> three cores is optimal.
>> I did not get a chance to talk to him about a hypervisor machine and
>> whether that also applied to the three cores.
>>
>>>
>>>> I have been trying to make a decision on the CPU and
motherboard to
>>>> purchase and really could use some help.
>>>>
>>>> I have read the wiki post at:
>>>> http://wiki.xen.org/xenwiki/VTdHowTo?highlight=(vtd)
>>>>
>>>> 1) For my purposes, is IOMMU important?
>>>> If so, then also, for my purposes, it looks like the ASUS
Crosshair IV
>>>> Formula may be a good choice.
>>>>
>>>> ** I would appreciate any input, as to the Crosshair or other,
like the M4A89TD.
>>>>
>>>> Now for the CPU and I have really not been able to determine
how many
>>>> cores is optimal for this server.
>>>> I have a knowledgeable coworker who says that three cores is
optimal
>>>> and I have not been able to find information to support that or
>>>> dispute it.
>>>>
>>>> 2) The Phenom II series seems to be attractive, so I have been
>>>> concentrating on those, but can someone also help me with the
X3, X4,
>>>> or X6 decision?
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> Joe
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Xen-users mailing list
>>>> Xen-users@lists.xensource.com
>>>> http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users
>>>>
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Xen-users mailing list
>> Xen-users@lists.xensource.com
>> http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users
>>
>
_______________________________________________
Xen-users mailing list
Xen-users@lists.xensource.com
http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users

Hmm. Server grade.
Now, I am going to have to decide on Xeon vs Opteron :)
More research.

Thanks for the suggestion.


On Sat, Feb 19, 2011 at 8:15 PM, Ryan Holt <ryan@ryanholt.net>
wrote:
> I recently built a home Xen server to both play with and run a few servers
at my house. I decided I''d spend a little more money and get server
grade gear and have been very happy with what I have so far:
>
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820139024
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819117225
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813182235
>
> You''ll need a few disks and a case. I used software RAID and used
the 6 SATA connectors on the board along with an old Coolermaster case. I
purchased 3x 5.25 to 5x3.5" hdd adapter to make things easier. Next
I''ll buy one of these cases to replace the Coolermaster that
it''s currently running in:
>
>
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811219038&cm_re=4224-_-11-219-038-_-Product
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: xen-users-bounces@lists.xensource.com
[mailto:xen-users-bounces@lists.xensource.com] On Behalf Of Todd Deshane
> Sent: Saturday, February 19, 2011 8:11 PM
> To: Joseph Commisso
> Cc: Xen-users@lists.xensource.com
> Subject: Re: [Xen-users] Home Xen hypervisor for master''s project
>
> On Sun, Feb 20, 2011 at 1:02 AM, Joseph Commisso
<commissoje@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Sat, Feb 19, 2011 at 7:21 PM, Todd Deshane
<todd.deshane@xen.org> wrote:
>>> On Sat, Feb 19, 2011 at 8:02 PM, Joseph Commisso
<commissoje@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Hi all,
>>>>
>>>> Could somebody please help me with a few hardware questions?
>>>>
>>>> I am building a home Xen server to implement a Xen Cloud for my
>>>> master''s project comparing SOA.
>>>> I will probably use Linux guest OSs, but I may want to use a
Windows
>>>> guest for home PC use.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Can you go into more detail about what features you plan to
implement?
>>
>> Well, I really do not know too much about Cloud computing, grids
>> (Globus), or parallel programming, all of which I would like to touch
>> upon or possibly go into more depth.
>
> You might find these useful for background (you or your school will need an
ACM account):
> http://techpack.acm.org/cloud/
> http://techpack.acm.org/parallel/
>
>> I was thinking of implementing a grid on the cloud, but then I saw
>> documentation referring to a cloud on a grid, so when I get there, I
>> will work that one out.
>> My instructor said to compare what I do against SOA, which will give
>> me something to work on there as well.
>>
>> I am fairly proficient with Linux administration with some abilities
>> on other areas, like networking, hardware and some minor software
>> programming.
>> So, I do not know what I will need to implement at this point. I hope
>> to learn as I go and see if I can come up with something useful.
>> I want to build this virtual server at home, since the machines that I
>> have access to at school are slow and also because school is 50 miles
>> away and I have no other classes to attend, so working at home on this
>> seems like the way to do it.
>>>
>>> Also, what type of interfaces do you expect to provide to users?
How
>>> will they connect? etc.
>>
>> What I know how to do is use xdmcp for remote sessions.
>> If I do set up a grid or cluster, then there may be some interface
>> which that uses.
>> Again, I hope to be able to find out when I get there.
>> I plan on choosing a motherboard/CPU and then building the rest of the
>> machine around those.
>> I have a coworker who suggested the AMD line and said that due to the
>> way the CPU connects to the bus and the rest of the motherboard, that
>> three cores is optimal.
>> I did not get a chance to talk to him about a hypervisor machine and
>> whether that also applied to the three cores.
>>
>>>
>>>> I have been trying to make a decision on the CPU and
motherboard to
>>>> purchase and really could use some help.
>>>>
>>>> I have read the wiki post at:
>>>> http://wiki.xen.org/xenwiki/VTdHowTo?highlight=(vtd)
>>>>
>>>> 1) For my purposes, is IOMMU important?
>>>> If so, then also, for my purposes, it looks like the ASUS
Crosshair
>>>> IV Formula may be a good choice.
>>>>
>>>> ** I would appreciate any input, as to the Crosshair or other,
like the M4A89TD.
>>>>
>>>> Now for the CPU and I have really not been able to determine
how
>>>> many cores is optimal for this server.
>>>> I have a knowledgeable coworker who says that three cores is
optimal
>>>> and I have not been able to find information to support that or
>>>> dispute it.
>>>>
>>>> 2) The Phenom II series seems to be attractive, so I have been
>>>> concentrating on those, but can someone also help me with the
X3,
>>>> X4, or X6 decision?
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> Joe
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Xen-users mailing list
>>>> Xen-users@lists.xensource.com
>>>> http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users
>>>>
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Xen-users mailing list
>> Xen-users@lists.xensource.com
>> http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Xen-users mailing list
> Xen-users@lists.xensource.com
> http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users
>
_______________________________________________
Xen-users mailing list
Xen-users@lists.xensource.com
http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users

Ryan,

Can you help me in identifying some of the tradeoffs of going with the
Xeon/Opteron vs the Phenom II/Core i5 or i7?

I know that server grade CPUs are constructed totally different than
general desktop CPUs, but I do not know why or how that would effect
my processing environment and my experience on this system.
I certainly would like to make the purchase right away, but it seems
that I have many questions as to what will work out best and the
answers are not easy for me to find. At least they aren''t easy for me
to find!

Thank you for anything you may be able to help with,
Joe


On Sat, Feb 19, 2011 at 8:15 PM, Ryan Holt <ryan@ryanholt.net>
wrote:
> I recently built a home Xen server to both play with and run a few servers
at my house. I decided I''d spend a little more money and get server
grade gear and have been very happy with what I have so far:
>
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820139024
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819117225
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813182235
>
> You''ll need a few disks and a case. I used software RAID and used
the 6 SATA connectors on the board along with an old Coolermaster case. I
purchased 3x 5.25 to 5x3.5" hdd adapter to make things easier. Next
I''ll buy one of these cases to replace the Coolermaster that
it''s currently running in:
>
>
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811219038&cm_re=4224-_-11-219-038-_-Product
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: xen-users-bounces@lists.xensource.com
[mailto:xen-users-bounces@lists.xensource.com] On Behalf Of Todd Deshane
> Sent: Saturday, February 19, 2011 8:11 PM
> To: Joseph Commisso
> Cc: Xen-users@lists.xensource.com
> Subject: Re: [Xen-users] Home Xen hypervisor for master''s project
>
> On Sun, Feb 20, 2011 at 1:02 AM, Joseph Commisso
<commissoje@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Sat, Feb 19, 2011 at 7:21 PM, Todd Deshane
<todd.deshane@xen.org> wrote:
>>> On Sat, Feb 19, 2011 at 8:02 PM, Joseph Commisso
<commissoje@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Hi all,
>>>>
>>>> Could somebody please help me with a few hardware questions?
>>>>
>>>> I am building a home Xen server to implement a Xen Cloud for my
>>>> master''s project comparing SOA.
>>>> I will probably use Linux guest OSs, but I may want to use a
Windows
>>>> guest for home PC use.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Can you go into more detail about what features you plan to
implement?
>>
>> Well, I really do not know too much about Cloud computing, grids
>> (Globus), or parallel programming, all of which I would like to touch
>> upon or possibly go into more depth.
>
> You might find these useful for background (you or your school will need an
ACM account):
> http://techpack.acm.org/cloud/
> http://techpack.acm.org/parallel/
>
>> I was thinking of implementing a grid on the cloud, but then I saw
>> documentation referring to a cloud on a grid, so when I get there, I
>> will work that one out.
>> My instructor said to compare what I do against SOA, which will give
>> me something to work on there as well.
>>
>> I am fairly proficient with Linux administration with some abilities
>> on other areas, like networking, hardware and some minor software
>> programming.
>> So, I do not know what I will need to implement at this point. I hope
>> to learn as I go and see if I can come up with something useful.
>> I want to build this virtual server at home, since the machines that I
>> have access to at school are slow and also because school is 50 miles
>> away and I have no other classes to attend, so working at home on this
>> seems like the way to do it.
>>>
>>> Also, what type of interfaces do you expect to provide to users?
How
>>> will they connect? etc.
>>
>> What I know how to do is use xdmcp for remote sessions.
>> If I do set up a grid or cluster, then there may be some interface
>> which that uses.
>> Again, I hope to be able to find out when I get there.
>> I plan on choosing a motherboard/CPU and then building the rest of the
>> machine around those.
>> I have a coworker who suggested the AMD line and said that due to the
>> way the CPU connects to the bus and the rest of the motherboard, that
>> three cores is optimal.
>> I did not get a chance to talk to him about a hypervisor machine and
>> whether that also applied to the three cores.
>>
>>>
>>>> I have been trying to make a decision on the CPU and
motherboard to
>>>> purchase and really could use some help.
>>>>
>>>> I have read the wiki post at:
>>>> http://wiki.xen.org/xenwiki/VTdHowTo?highlight=(vtd)
>>>>
>>>> 1) For my purposes, is IOMMU important?
>>>> If so, then also, for my purposes, it looks like the ASUS
Crosshair
>>>> IV Formula may be a good choice.
>>>>
>>>> ** I would appreciate any input, as to the Crosshair or other,
like the M4A89TD.
>>>>
>>>> Now for the CPU and I have really not been able to determine
how
>>>> many cores is optimal for this server.
>>>> I have a knowledgeable coworker who says that three cores is
optimal
>>>> and I have not been able to find information to support that or
>>>> dispute it.
>>>>
>>>> 2) The Phenom II series seems to be attractive, so I have been
>>>> concentrating on those, but can someone also help me with the
X3,
>>>> X4, or X6 decision?
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> Joe
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Xen-users mailing list
>>>> Xen-users@lists.xensource.com
>>>> http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users
>>>>
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Xen-users mailing list
>> Xen-users@lists.xensource.com
>> http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Xen-users mailing list
> Xen-users@lists.xensource.com
> http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users
>
_______________________________________________
Xen-users mailing list
Xen-users@lists.xensource.com
http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users

I am getting off on a tangent and need to get back to my original track.
Server grade is good. It''s better. But I do not have to have server
grade.

Back to what I was originally asking.
I am probably going with AMD for reasons that someone I trust has told
me that AMD is superior.
I am not trying to get a debate going and I am not knowledgeable
enough, but AMD is certainly lower cost and has some other advantages
with the way it is constructed, so that is where I am focused now.
Intel is great too, but I think I will go with a late model Phenom for
now.
I guess IOMMU is kind of important and I can afford it, so I will
resolve that I will get a 890FX chipset.

* So, can someone chime in on how many cores the Xen hypervisor and
it''s guests will use?

I read a message earlier that stated that when compiling the kernel,
there is an option for how many virtual cores you will use?
Did I get that right?

If Xen will use all 6 cores and will utilize them better than if I had
a four core CPU, then that is what I am asking.
I will probably have anywhere from 3 to 6 virtual machines going at any time.
Does the Dom0 use one core and is each guest optimally using one or
two of the other real cores?
If that is the case, then Dom0 would take one of the six. That would
leave 5 cores for say two VMs with two cores each and one VM using the
last core. Could I do something like that? Or one VM using 3 cores and
one VM using 2 cores?
Is that something that is trivial to set up?

Hopefully these answers are easy for someone who has been there.

TIA!

I am

On Sat, Feb 19, 2011 at 8:15 PM, Ryan Holt <ryan@ryanholt.net>
wrote:
> I recently built a home Xen server to both play with and run a few servers
at my house. I decided I''d spend a little more money and get server
grade gear and have been very happy with what I have so far:
>
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820139024
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819117225
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813182235
>
> You''ll need a few disks and a case. I used software RAID and used
the 6 SATA connectors on the board along with an old Coolermaster case. I
purchased 3x 5.25 to 5x3.5" hdd adapter to make things easier. Next
I''ll buy one of these cases to replace the Coolermaster that
it''s currently running in:
>
>
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811219038&cm_re=4224-_-11-219-038-_-Product
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: xen-users-bounces@lists.xensource.com
[mailto:xen-users-bounces@lists.xensource.com] On Behalf Of Todd Deshane
> Sent: Saturday, February 19, 2011 8:11 PM
> To: Joseph Commisso
> Cc: Xen-users@lists.xensource.com
> Subject: Re: [Xen-users] Home Xen hypervisor for master''s project
>
> On Sun, Feb 20, 2011 at 1:02 AM, Joseph Commisso
<commissoje@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Sat, Feb 19, 2011 at 7:21 PM, Todd Deshane
<todd.deshane@xen.org> wrote:
>>> On Sat, Feb 19, 2011 at 8:02 PM, Joseph Commisso
<commissoje@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Hi all,
>>>>
>>>> Could somebody please help me with a few hardware questions?
>>>>
>>>> I am building a home Xen server to implement a Xen Cloud for my
>>>> master''s project comparing SOA.
>>>> I will probably use Linux guest OSs, but I may want to use a
Windows
>>>> guest for home PC use.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Can you go into more detail about what features you plan to
implement?
>>
>> Well, I really do not know too much about Cloud computing, grids
>> (Globus), or parallel programming, all of which I would like to touch
>> upon or possibly go into more depth.
>
> You might find these useful for background (you or your school will need an
ACM account):
> http://techpack.acm.org/cloud/
> http://techpack.acm.org/parallel/
>
>> I was thinking of implementing a grid on the cloud, but then I saw
>> documentation referring to a cloud on a grid, so when I get there, I
>> will work that one out.
>> My instructor said to compare what I do against SOA, which will give
>> me something to work on there as well.
>>
>> I am fairly proficient with Linux administration with some abilities
>> on other areas, like networking, hardware and some minor software
>> programming.
>> So, I do not know what I will need to implement at this point. I hope
>> to learn as I go and see if I can come up with something useful.
>> I want to build this virtual server at home, since the machines that I
>> have access to at school are slow and also because school is 50 miles
>> away and I have no other classes to attend, so working at home on this
>> seems like the way to do it.
>>>
>>> Also, what type of interfaces do you expect to provide to users?
How
>>> will they connect? etc.
>>
>> What I know how to do is use xdmcp for remote sessions.
>> If I do set up a grid or cluster, then there may be some interface
>> which that uses.
>> Again, I hope to be able to find out when I get there.
>> I plan on choosing a motherboard/CPU and then building the rest of the
>> machine around those.
>> I have a coworker who suggested the AMD line and said that due to the
>> way the CPU connects to the bus and the rest of the motherboard, that
>> three cores is optimal.
>> I did not get a chance to talk to him about a hypervisor machine and
>> whether that also applied to the three cores.
>>
>>>
>>>> I have been trying to make a decision on the CPU and
motherboard to
>>>> purchase and really could use some help.
>>>>
>>>> I have read the wiki post at:
>>>> http://wiki.xen.org/xenwiki/VTdHowTo?highlight=(vtd)
>>>>
>>>> 1) For my purposes, is IOMMU important?
>>>> If so, then also, for my purposes, it looks like the ASUS
Crosshair
>>>> IV Formula may be a good choice.
>>>>
>>>> ** I would appreciate any input, as to the Crosshair or other,
like the M4A89TD.
>>>>
>>>> Now for the CPU and I have really not been able to determine
how
>>>> many cores is optimal for this server.
>>>> I have a knowledgeable coworker who says that three cores is
optimal
>>>> and I have not been able to find information to support that or
>>>> dispute it.
>>>>
>>>> 2) The Phenom II series seems to be attractive, so I have been
>>>> concentrating on those, but can someone also help me with the
X3,
>>>> X4, or X6 decision?
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> Joe
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Xen-users mailing list
>>>> Xen-users@lists.xensource.com
>>>> http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users
>>>>
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Xen-users mailing list
>> Xen-users@lists.xensource.com
>> http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Xen-users mailing list
> Xen-users@lists.xensource.com
> http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users
>
_______________________________________________
Xen-users mailing list
Xen-users@lists.xensource.com
http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users

As far as I know Xen will use as many cores that you have. You can configure
each core to be pinned to a specific VM / dom0 if you''d like but
it''s not required.

To answer your question about XEON / i7/i5 there''s generally more
server "grade" features baked into the chipset. Things like ECC RAM.

As far as AMD vs Intel, that can be somewhat of a holy war, but Intel dominates
AMD in market share so you''d be hard pressed to convince me that every
IT operation is implementing a sub par product.

http://www.eweek.com/c/a/IT-Infrastructure/AMD-Market-Share-Inches-Up-But-Intel-Still-Dominates-584542/

-----Original Message-----
From: Joseph Commisso [mailto:commissoje@gmail.com] 
Sent: Saturday, February 19, 2011 9:25 PM
To: xen-users
Cc: Todd Deshane; Ryan Holt
Subject: Re: [Xen-users] Home Xen hypervisor for master''s project

I am getting off on a tangent and need to get back to my original track.
Server grade is good. It''s better. But I do not have to have server
grade.

Back to what I was originally asking.
I am probably going with AMD for reasons that someone I trust has told me that
AMD is superior.
I am not trying to get a debate going and I am not knowledgeable enough, but AMD
is certainly lower cost and has some other advantages with the way it is
constructed, so that is where I am focused now.
Intel is great too, but I think I will go with a late model Phenom for now.
I guess IOMMU is kind of important and I can afford it, so I will resolve that I
will get a 890FX chipset.

* So, can someone chime in on how many cores the Xen hypervisor and
it''s guests will use?

I read a message earlier that stated that when compiling the kernel, there is an
option for how many virtual cores you will use?
Did I get that right?

If Xen will use all 6 cores and will utilize them better than if I had a four
core CPU, then that is what I am asking.
I will probably have anywhere from 3 to 6 virtual machines going at any time.
Does the Dom0 use one core and is each guest optimally using one or two of the
other real cores?
If that is the case, then Dom0 would take one of the six. That would leave 5
cores for say two VMs with two cores each and one VM using the last core. Could
I do something like that? Or one VM using 3 cores and one VM using 2 cores?
Is that something that is trivial to set up?

Hopefully these answers are easy for someone who has been there.

TIA!

I am

On Sat, Feb 19, 2011 at 8:15 PM, Ryan Holt <ryan@ryanholt.net>
wrote:
> I recently built a home Xen server to both play with and run a few servers
at my house. I decided I''d spend a little more money and get server
grade gear and have been very happy with what I have so far:
>
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820139024
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819117225
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813182235
>
> You''ll need a few disks and a case. I used software RAID and used
the 6 SATA connectors on the board along with an old Coolermaster case. I
purchased 3x 5.25 to 5x3.5" hdd adapter to make things easier. Next
I''ll buy one of these cases to replace the Coolermaster that
it''s currently running in:
>
>
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811219038&cm_re>
4224-_-11-219-038-_-Product
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: xen-users-bounces@lists.xensource.com 
> [mailto:xen-users-bounces@lists.xensource.com] On Behalf Of Todd 
> Deshane
> Sent: Saturday, February 19, 2011 8:11 PM
> To: Joseph Commisso
> Cc: Xen-users@lists.xensource.com
> Subject: Re: [Xen-users] Home Xen hypervisor for master''s project
>
> On Sun, Feb 20, 2011 at 1:02 AM, Joseph Commisso
<commissoje@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Sat, Feb 19, 2011 at 7:21 PM, Todd Deshane
<todd.deshane@xen.org> wrote:
>>> On Sat, Feb 19, 2011 at 8:02 PM, Joseph Commisso
<commissoje@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Hi all,
>>>>
>>>> Could somebody please help me with a few hardware questions?
>>>>
>>>> I am building a home Xen server to implement a Xen Cloud for my
>>>> master''s project comparing SOA.
>>>> I will probably use Linux guest OSs, but I may want to use a 
>>>> Windows guest for home PC use.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Can you go into more detail about what features you plan to
implement?
>>
>> Well, I really do not know too much about Cloud computing, grids 
>> (Globus), or parallel programming, all of which I would like to touch 
>> upon or possibly go into more depth.
>
> You might find these useful for background (you or your school will need an
ACM account):
> http://techpack.acm.org/cloud/
> http://techpack.acm.org/parallel/
>
>> I was thinking of implementing a grid on the cloud, but then I saw 
>> documentation referring to a cloud on a grid, so when I get there, I 
>> will work that one out.
>> My instructor said to compare what I do against SOA, which will give 
>> me something to work on there as well.
>>
>> I am fairly proficient with Linux administration with some abilities 
>> on other areas, like networking, hardware and some minor software 
>> programming.
>> So, I do not know what I will need to implement at this point. I hope 
>> to learn as I go and see if I can come up with something useful.
>> I want to build this virtual server at home, since the machines that 
>> I have access to at school are slow and also because school is 50 
>> miles away and I have no other classes to attend, so working at home 
>> on this seems like the way to do it.
>>>
>>> Also, what type of interfaces do you expect to provide to users?
How
>>> will they connect? etc.
>>
>> What I know how to do is use xdmcp for remote sessions.
>> If I do set up a grid or cluster, then there may be some interface 
>> which that uses.
>> Again, I hope to be able to find out when I get there.
>> I plan on choosing a motherboard/CPU and then building the rest of 
>> the machine around those.
>> I have a coworker who suggested the AMD line and said that due to the 
>> way the CPU connects to the bus and the rest of the motherboard, that 
>> three cores is optimal.
>> I did not get a chance to talk to him about a hypervisor machine and 
>> whether that also applied to the three cores.
>>
>>>
>>>> I have been trying to make a decision on the CPU and
motherboard to
>>>> purchase and really could use some help.
>>>>
>>>> I have read the wiki post at:
>>>> http://wiki.xen.org/xenwiki/VTdHowTo?highlight=(vtd)
>>>>
>>>> 1) For my purposes, is IOMMU important?
>>>> If so, then also, for my purposes, it looks like the ASUS
Crosshair
>>>> IV Formula may be a good choice.
>>>>
>>>> ** I would appreciate any input, as to the Crosshair or other,
like the M4A89TD.
>>>>
>>>> Now for the CPU and I have really not been able to determine
how
>>>> many cores is optimal for this server.
>>>> I have a knowledgeable coworker who says that three cores is 
>>>> optimal and I have not been able to find information to support
>>>> that or dispute it.
>>>>
>>>> 2) The Phenom II series seems to be attractive, so I have been 
>>>> concentrating on those, but can someone also help me with the
X3,
>>>> X4, or X6 decision?
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> Joe
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Xen-users mailing list
>>>> Xen-users@lists.xensource.com
>>>> http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users
>>>>
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Xen-users mailing list
>> Xen-users@lists.xensource.com
>> http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Xen-users mailing list
> Xen-users@lists.xensource.com
> http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users
>
_______________________________________________
Xen-users mailing list
Xen-users@lists.xensource.com
http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users

Dnia 20-02-2011 o 02:44:32 Joseph Commisso <commissoje@gmail.com>  
napisał(a):
> Ryan,
>
> Can you help me in identifying some of the tradeoffs of going with the
> Xeon/Opteron vs the Phenom II/Core i5 or i7?
This is where the difference between Intel and AMD is the biggest. Intel  
seems to be disabling CPU features at random and this will lead to  
problems with virtualization.
Assuming you are interested in going with at least a quad core. Three  
cores may also be enough, but two would likely be too few if you want to  
run several VMs at once. This immediately limits your options to only some  
CPUs.
I assume you won''t be getting a Sandy Bridge i5 due to the SATA 2  
controller issue in the chipset, so the only i5 is Lynnfield (750 and  
760), but neither has support for VT-d. All Lynnfield Core i7 CPUs support  
VT-d apart from 875K (just so you know, I don''t think you were
interested
in that one, anyway). Support for VT-d with 900 series depends on the  
motherboard and its BIOS.

Conversely, AMD enables everything on its entire CPU range. If it''s
based
on K10.5, it will have support for AMD-V, memory ECC, and with the right  
motherboard (currently limited to 890FX-based), IOMMU. Your choice, but  
for virtualization, especially on a budget, nothing beats AMD.
>
> I know that server grade CPUs are constructed totally different than
> general desktop CPUs, but I do not know why or how that would effect
> my processing environment and my experience on this system.
Not totally different. If anything, some features may have been fused off,  
but otherwise the dies are exactly the same. Since Intel is using LGA  
across the board, they have the same mounting as well (AMD uses PGA  
sockets, while all current Opterons use LGA).
One feature missing from consumer version of Intel CPUs is lack of support  
for ECC on any of the buses (I''m not sure about cache ECC). This is  
important, because if you want to run a server, you''ll want to have ECC
protection on pretty much everything, so if you want to go with Intel, get  
a Xeon (even i7-900 series don''t support ECC memory or QPI). AMD, on
the
other hand, does support ECC on both HyperTransport (by design) and on the  
memory controller with all current consumer CPUs.
Fundamentally, however, there are no differences between the enterprise  
and the consumer versions of a given CPU. If any given software demands a  
''server-grade CPU'', rather than server-specific features,
it''s usually
bogus, since, e.g., an Athlon with ECC memory is server grade, while an  
Opteron with no-ECC memory is not, regardless of the CPU brand.

> I certainly would like to make the purchase right away, but it seems
> that I have many questions as to what will work out best and the
> answers are not easy for me to find. At least they aren''t easy for
me
> to find!
If you want to wait, Intel will have fixed Sandy Bridge chipsets by March  
and revised motherboards may hit the market in volume by mid-March. Going  
for that will give you a wider choice of CPUs with VT-d support (although  
still not as wide as you''d probably like and still no support for ECC).



Now, all the above assumes that you will want to make use of VT-d/AMD-Vi.  
Once you finish your thesis, I doubt you''ll continue running the cloud
services (for which VT-d is maybe an afterthought), but you will want to  
make the machine relevant for home use. If you prefer running a Linux  
desktop, but you''d still like to play the latest games in a Windows VM
(where IOMMU shines), then there''s no choice, but to go for something
that
supports IOMMU. Note that using a machine at home usually implies that you  
won''t be needing ECC, so if you''re fine with no ECC, then feel
free to
disregard the caveat about Intel Core CPUs.

Regards,
Marek
>
> Thank you for anything you may be able to help with,
> Joe
>
>
> On Sat, Feb 19, 2011 at 8:15 PM, Ryan Holt <ryan@ryanholt.net> wrote:
>> I recently built a home Xen server to both play with and run a few  
>> servers at my house. I decided I''d spend a little more money
and get
>> server grade gear and have been very happy with what I have so far:
>>
>> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820139024
>> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819117225
>> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813182235
>>
>> You''ll need a few disks and a case. I used software RAID and
used the 6
>> SATA connectors on the board along with an old Coolermaster case. I  
>> purchased 3x 5.25 to 5x3.5" hdd adapter to make things easier.
Next
>> I''ll buy one of these cases to replace the Coolermaster that
it''s
>> currently running in:
>>
>>
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811219038&cm_re=4224-_-11-219-038-_-Product
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: xen-users-bounces@lists.xensource.com  
>> [mailto:xen-users-bounces@lists.xensource.com] On Behalf Of Todd
Deshane
>> Sent: Saturday, February 19, 2011 8:11 PM
>> To: Joseph Commisso
>> Cc: Xen-users@lists.xensource.com
>> Subject: Re: [Xen-users] Home Xen hypervisor for master''s
project
>>
>> On Sun, Feb 20, 2011 at 1:02 AM, Joseph Commisso
<commissoje@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>> On Sat, Feb 19, 2011 at 7:21 PM, Todd Deshane
<todd.deshane@xen.org>
>>> wrote:
>>>> On Sat, Feb 19, 2011 at 8:02 PM, Joseph Commisso  
>>>> <commissoje@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>
>>>>> Could somebody please help me with a few hardware
questions?
>>>>>
>>>>> I am building a home Xen server to implement a Xen Cloud
for my
>>>>> master''s project comparing SOA.
>>>>> I will probably use Linux guest OSs, but I may want to use
a Windows
>>>>> guest for home PC use.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Can you go into more detail about what features you plan to
implement?
>>>
>>> Well, I really do not know too much about Cloud computing, grids
>>> (Globus), or parallel programming, all of which I would like to
touch
>>> upon or possibly go into more depth.
>>
>> You might find these useful for background (you or your school will  
>> need an ACM account):
>> http://techpack.acm.org/cloud/
>> http://techpack.acm.org/parallel/
>>
>>> I was thinking of implementing a grid on the cloud, but then I saw
>>> documentation referring to a cloud on a grid, so when I get there,
I
>>> will work that one out.
>>> My instructor said to compare what I do against SOA, which will
give
>>> me something to work on there as well.
>>>
>>> I am fairly proficient with Linux administration with some
abilities
>>> on other areas, like networking, hardware and some minor software
>>> programming.
>>> So, I do not know what I will need to implement at this point. I
hope
>>> to learn as I go and see if I can come up with something useful.
>>> I want to build this virtual server at home, since the machines
that I
>>> have access to at school are slow and also because school is 50
miles
>>> away and I have no other classes to attend, so working at home on
this
>>> seems like the way to do it.
>>>>
>>>> Also, what type of interfaces do you expect to provide to
users? How
>>>> will they connect? etc.
>>>
>>> What I know how to do is use xdmcp for remote sessions.
>>> If I do set up a grid or cluster, then there may be some interface
>>> which that uses.
>>> Again, I hope to be able to find out when I get there.
>>> I plan on choosing a motherboard/CPU and then building the rest of
the
>>> machine around those.
>>> I have a coworker who suggested the AMD line and said that due to
the
>>> way the CPU connects to the bus and the rest of the motherboard,
that
>>> three cores is optimal.
>>> I did not get a chance to talk to him about a hypervisor machine
and
>>> whether that also applied to the three cores.
>>>
>>>>
>>>>> I have been trying to make a decision on the CPU and
motherboard to
>>>>> purchase and really could use some help.
>>>>>
>>>>> I have read the wiki post at:
>>>>> http://wiki.xen.org/xenwiki/VTdHowTo?highlight=(vtd)
>>>>>
>>>>> 1) For my purposes, is IOMMU important?
>>>>> If so, then also, for my purposes, it looks like the ASUS
Crosshair
>>>>> IV Formula may be a good choice.
>>>>>
>>>>> ** I would appreciate any input, as to the Crosshair or
other, like
>>>>> the M4A89TD.
>>>>>
>>>>> Now for the CPU and I have really not been able to
determine how
>>>>> many cores is optimal for this server.
>>>>> I have a knowledgeable coworker who says that three cores
is optimal
>>>>> and I have not been able to find information to support
that or
>>>>> dispute it.
>>>>>
>>>>> 2) The Phenom II series seems to be attractive, so I have
been
>>>>> concentrating on those, but can someone also help me with
the X3,
>>>>> X4, or X6 decision?
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>> Joe
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Xen-users mailing list
>>>>> Xen-users@lists.xensource.com
>>>>> http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Xen-users mailing list
>>> Xen-users@lists.xensource.com
>>> http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Xen-users mailing list
>> Xen-users@lists.xensource.com
>> http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Xen-users mailing list
> Xen-users@lists.xensource.com
> http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users

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_______________________________________________
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Hi Joseph, guys,

I must say that ECC is kinda market bull. I did used ECC enabled server 
and regular servers built from consumer parts. I''ve noticed no 
difference whatsoever.

Now, like Marek said, after you finish your thesis you might consider 
using it as a livingroom server. This will (maybe) involve running your 
workstation off it, as long with a Windows mediacenter with gaming 
capabilities. Also, you might consider creating a fileserver, a 
printserver, an voip/asterisk server etc. You will need as many cores as 
you can afford. With the latest AMD six cores you might be on the safe 
side. I''ve played around a bit with Windows as guest and for having a 
smooth movie or audio play, you need to dedicate a couple of cores to 
that VPS. If you share it with other VPSs, you get chunky sound or 
video. Giving away just one core is making the Windows VPS tooo slooooow 
to actually enjoy it.
And yes, definitely go for IOMMU! The 890FX chipset is what I have, and 
it works great. I''ve tried some other chipset and this really makes the
difference (the other just hanged, poor support for IRQ mappings, etc).

Also, if you will run it from home, you should consider the power 
consumption and also the noise. If you don''t want to house it in a 
soundproof closet, you might want to go for ATX and buy a regular or a 
silent case. If you are just experimenting (ie no financial profit from 
it) you might consider keeping the electricity bill as low as possible. 
There are a few green solutions for both CPUs and hard drives. You
won''t
need the black editions of neither one, as your load will be low most of 
the times, just spiking when doing intensive stuff like compiling the 
kernel. Not to mention the video card: try choosing now a green model 
(eg ATI 5450). Later on, after you finish your thesis, you might 
consider buying a more expensive and much better video card for gaming 
and pass that entirely to the Windows VPS.

I do have setup at home a similar Xen system and I must say I''m very 
happy with it. I only have one physical computer and a bunch of virtual 
ones. Benefits: initial costs, power consumption, noise, storage space. 
Cons: if the hardware goes off, you have no computer at all. :)

All the best wishes from Romania!
Adrian

On 20.02.2011 04:58, Marek Kaszycki wrote:
> Dnia 20-02-2011 o 02:44:32 Joseph Commisso <commissoje@gmail.com> 
> napisał(a):
>
>> Ryan,
>>
>> Can you help me in identifying some of the tradeoffs of going with the
>> Xeon/Opteron vs the Phenom II/Core i5 or i7?
> This is where the difference between Intel and AMD is the biggest. 
> Intel seems to be disabling CPU features at random and this will lead 
> to problems with virtualization.
> Assuming you are interested in going with at least a quad core. Three 
> cores may also be enough, but two would likely be too few if you want 
> to run several VMs at once. This immediately limits your options to 
> only some CPUs.
> I assume you won''t be getting a Sandy Bridge i5 due to the SATA 2 
> controller issue in the chipset, so the only i5 is Lynnfield (750 and 
> 760), but neither has support for VT-d. All Lynnfield Core i7 CPUs 
> support VT-d apart from 875K (just so you know, I don''t think you
were
> interested in that one, anyway). Support for VT-d with 900 series 
> depends on the motherboard and its BIOS.
>
> Conversely, AMD enables everything on its entire CPU range. If
it''s
> based on K10.5, it will have support for AMD-V, memory ECC, and with 
> the right motherboard (currently limited to 890FX-based), IOMMU. Your 
> choice, but for virtualization, especially on a budget, nothing beats 
> AMD.
>
>>
>> I know that server grade CPUs are constructed totally different than
>> general desktop CPUs, but I do not know why or how that would effect
>> my processing environment and my experience on this system.
> Not totally different. If anything, some features may have been fused 
> off, but otherwise the dies are exactly the same. Since Intel is using 
> LGA across the board, they have the same mounting as well (AMD uses 
> PGA sockets, while all current Opterons use LGA).
> One feature missing from consumer version of Intel CPUs is lack of 
> support for ECC on any of the buses (I''m not sure about cache
ECC).
> This is important, because if you want to run a server, you''ll
want to
> have ECC protection on pretty much everything, so if you want to go 
> with Intel, get a Xeon (even i7-900 series don''t support ECC
memory or
> QPI). AMD, on the other hand, does support ECC on both HyperTransport 
> (by design) and on the memory controller with all current consumer CPUs.
> Fundamentally, however, there are no differences between the 
> enterprise and the consumer versions of a given CPU. If any given 
> software demands a ''server-grade CPU'', rather than
server-specific
> features, it''s usually bogus, since, e.g., an Athlon with ECC
memory
> is server grade, while an Opteron with no-ECC memory is not, 
> regardless of the CPU brand.
>
>
>> I certainly would like to make the purchase right away, but it seems
>> that I have many questions as to what will work out best and the
>> answers are not easy for me to find. At least they aren''t easy
for me
>> to find!
> If you want to wait, Intel will have fixed Sandy Bridge chipsets by 
> March and revised motherboards may hit the market in volume by 
> mid-March. Going for that will give you a wider choice of CPUs with 
> VT-d support (although still not as wide as you''d probably like
and
> still no support for ECC).
>
>
>
> Now, all the above assumes that you will want to make use of 
> VT-d/AMD-Vi. Once you finish your thesis, I doubt you''ll continue 
> running the cloud services (for which VT-d is maybe an afterthought), 
> but you will want to make the machine relevant for home use. If you 
> prefer running a Linux desktop, but you''d still like to play the 
> latest games in a Windows VM (where IOMMU shines), then there''s no
> choice, but to go for something that supports IOMMU. Note that using a 
> machine at home usually implies that you won''t be needing ECC, so
if
> you''re fine with no ECC, then feel free to disregard the caveat
about
> Intel Core CPUs.
>
> Regards,
> Marek
>
>>
>> Thank you for anything you may be able to help with,
>> Joe
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Feb 19, 2011 at 8:15 PM, Ryan Holt <ryan@ryanholt.net>
wrote:
>>> I recently built a home Xen server to both play with and run a few 
>>> servers at my house. I decided I''d spend a little more
money and get
>>> server grade gear and have been very happy with what I have so far:
>>>
>>> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820139024
>>> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819117225
>>> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813182235
>>>
>>> You''ll need a few disks and a case. I used software RAID
and used
>>> the 6 SATA connectors on the board along with an old Coolermaster 
>>> case. I purchased 3x 5.25 to 5x3.5" hdd adapter to make things
>>> easier. Next I''ll buy one of these cases to replace the
Coolermaster
>>> that it''s currently running in:
>>>
>>>
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811219038&cm_re=4224-_-11-219-038-_-Product
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: xen-users-bounces@lists.xensource.com 
>>> [mailto:xen-users-bounces@lists.xensource.com] On Behalf Of Todd 
>>> Deshane
>>> Sent: Saturday, February 19, 2011 8:11 PM
>>> To: Joseph Commisso
>>> Cc: Xen-users@lists.xensource.com
>>> Subject: Re: [Xen-users] Home Xen hypervisor for master''s
project
>>>
>>> On Sun, Feb 20, 2011 at 1:02 AM, Joseph Commisso 
>>> <commissoje@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> On Sat, Feb 19, 2011 at 7:21 PM, Todd Deshane 
>>>> <todd.deshane@xen.org> wrote:
>>>>> On Sat, Feb 19, 2011 at 8:02 PM, Joseph Commisso 
>>>>> <commissoje@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Could somebody please help me with a few hardware
questions?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I am building a home Xen server to implement a Xen
Cloud for my
>>>>>> master''s project comparing SOA.
>>>>>> I will probably use Linux guest OSs, but I may want to
use a Windows
>>>>>> guest for home PC use.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Can you go into more detail about what features you plan to
>>>>> implement?
>>>>
>>>> Well, I really do not know too much about Cloud computing,
grids
>>>> (Globus), or parallel programming, all of which I would like to
touch
>>>> upon or possibly go into more depth.
>>>
>>> You might find these useful for background (you or your school will
>>> need an ACM account):
>>> http://techpack.acm.org/cloud/
>>> http://techpack.acm.org/parallel/
>>>
>>>> I was thinking of implementing a grid on the cloud, but then I
saw
>>>> documentation referring to a cloud on a grid, so when I get
there, I
>>>> will work that one out.
>>>> My instructor said to compare what I do against SOA, which will
give
>>>> me something to work on there as well.
>>>>
>>>> I am fairly proficient with Linux administration with some
abilities
>>>> on other areas, like networking, hardware and some minor
software
>>>> programming.
>>>> So, I do not know what I will need to implement at this point.
I hope
>>>> to learn as I go and see if I can come up with something
useful.
>>>> I want to build this virtual server at home, since the machines
that I
>>>> have access to at school are slow and also because school is 50
miles
>>>> away and I have no other classes to attend, so working at home
on this
>>>> seems like the way to do it.
>>>>>
>>>>> Also, what type of interfaces do you expect to provide to
users? How
>>>>> will they connect? etc.
>>>>
>>>> What I know how to do is use xdmcp for remote sessions.
>>>> If I do set up a grid or cluster, then there may be some
interface
>>>> which that uses.
>>>> Again, I hope to be able to find out when I get there.
>>>> I plan on choosing a motherboard/CPU and then building the rest
of the
>>>> machine around those.
>>>> I have a coworker who suggested the AMD line and said that due
to the
>>>> way the CPU connects to the bus and the rest of the
motherboard, that
>>>> three cores is optimal.
>>>> I did not get a chance to talk to him about a hypervisor
machine and
>>>> whether that also applied to the three cores.
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> I have been trying to make a decision on the CPU and
motherboard to
>>>>>> purchase and really could use some help.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I have read the wiki post at:
>>>>>> http://wiki.xen.org/xenwiki/VTdHowTo?highlight=(vtd)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 1) For my purposes, is IOMMU important?
>>>>>> If so, then also, for my purposes, it looks like the
ASUS Crosshair
>>>>>> IV Formula may be a good choice.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ** I would appreciate any input, as to the Crosshair or
other,
>>>>>> like the M4A89TD.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Now for the CPU and I have really not been able to
determine how
>>>>>> many cores is optimal for this server.
>>>>>> I have a knowledgeable coworker who says that three
cores is optimal
>>>>>> and I have not been able to find information to support
that or
>>>>>> dispute it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 2) The Phenom II series seems to be attractive, so I
have been
>>>>>> concentrating on those, but can someone also help me
with the X3,
>>>>>> X4, or X6 decision?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>> Joe
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Xen-users mailing list
>>>>>> Xen-users@lists.xensource.com
>>>>>> http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Xen-users mailing list
>>>> Xen-users@lists.xensource.com
>>>> http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users
>>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Xen-users mailing list
>>> Xen-users@lists.xensource.com
>>> http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Xen-users mailing list
>> Xen-users@lists.xensource.com
>> http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users
>
>
_______________________________________________
Xen-users mailing list
Xen-users@lists.xensource.com
http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users

I greatly appreciate your input.
I am going to use your information by seriously considering the server
grade Opteron.
I will table the question of which processor can do what for a later
date as I am not knowledgeable on the architecture of these chips, but
since I am documenting my progress, I will try and research the
benefits of the Xeon vs Opteron and I will try and get back to you in
the next few weeks or so, if that is ok with you.
As I said Intel is a great product in my mind as well. I am not sure
what I will find, but I am going to focus on the way each CPU
interfaces with the rest of the motherboard.
I am not trying to "win" or anything, but I want to know more about
this and it has my interest.

Thanks again,
Joe


On Sat, Feb 19, 2011 at 9:40 PM, Ryan Holt <ryan@ryanholt.net>
wrote:
> As far as I know Xen will use as many cores that you have. You can
configure each core to be pinned to a specific VM / dom0 if you''d like
but it''s not required.
>
> To answer your question about XEON / i7/i5 there''s generally more
server "grade" features baked into the chipset. Things like ECC RAM.
>
> As far as AMD vs Intel, that can be somewhat of a holy war, but Intel
dominates AMD in market share so you''d be hard pressed to convince me
that every IT operation is implementing a sub par product.
>
>
http://www.eweek.com/c/a/IT-Infrastructure/AMD-Market-Share-Inches-Up-But-Intel-Still-Dominates-584542/
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Joseph Commisso [mailto:commissoje@gmail.com]
> Sent: Saturday, February 19, 2011 9:25 PM
> To: xen-users
> Cc: Todd Deshane; Ryan Holt
> Subject: Re: [Xen-users] Home Xen hypervisor for master''s project
>
> I am getting off on a tangent and need to get back to my original track.
> Server grade is good. It''s better. But I do not have to have
server grade.
>
> Back to what I was originally asking.
> I am probably going with AMD for reasons that someone I trust has told me
that AMD is superior.
> I am not trying to get a debate going and I am not knowledgeable enough,
but AMD is certainly lower cost and has some other advantages with the way it is
constructed, so that is where I am focused now.
> Intel is great too, but I think I will go with a late model Phenom for now.
> I guess IOMMU is kind of important and I can afford it, so I will resolve
that I will get a 890FX chipset.
>
> * So, can someone chime in on how many cores the Xen hypervisor and
it''s guests will use?
>
> I read a message earlier that stated that when compiling the kernel, there
is an option for how many virtual cores you will use?
> Did I get that right?
>
> If Xen will use all 6 cores and will utilize them better than if I had a
four core CPU, then that is what I am asking.
> I will probably have anywhere from 3 to 6 virtual machines going at any
time.
> Does the Dom0 use one core and is each guest optimally using one or two of
the other real cores?
> If that is the case, then Dom0 would take one of the six. That would leave
5 cores for say two VMs with two cores each and one VM using the last core.
Could I do something like that? Or one VM using 3 cores and one VM using 2
cores?
> Is that something that is trivial to set up?
>
> Hopefully these answers are easy for someone who has been there.
>
> TIA!
>
> I am
>
> On Sat, Feb 19, 2011 at 8:15 PM, Ryan Holt <ryan@ryanholt.net> wrote:
>> I recently built a home Xen server to both play with and run a few
servers at my house. I decided I''d spend a little more money and get
server grade gear and have been very happy with what I have so far:
>>
>> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820139024
>> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819117225
>> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813182235
>>
>> You''ll need a few disks and a case. I used software RAID and
used the 6 SATA connectors on the board along with an old Coolermaster case. I
purchased 3x 5.25 to 5x3.5" hdd adapter to make things easier. Next
I''ll buy one of these cases to replace the Coolermaster that
it''s currently running in:
>>
>>
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811219038&cm_re>>
4224-_-11-219-038-_-Product
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: xen-users-bounces@lists.xensource.com
>> [mailto:xen-users-bounces@lists.xensource.com] On Behalf Of Todd
>> Deshane
>> Sent: Saturday, February 19, 2011 8:11 PM
>> To: Joseph Commisso
>> Cc: Xen-users@lists.xensource.com
>> Subject: Re: [Xen-users] Home Xen hypervisor for master''s
project
>>
>> On Sun, Feb 20, 2011 at 1:02 AM, Joseph Commisso
<commissoje@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On Sat, Feb 19, 2011 at 7:21 PM, Todd Deshane
<todd.deshane@xen.org> wrote:
>>>> On Sat, Feb 19, 2011 at 8:02 PM, Joseph Commisso
<commissoje@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>
>>>>> Could somebody please help me with a few hardware
questions?
>>>>>
>>>>> I am building a home Xen server to implement a Xen Cloud
for my
>>>>> master''s project comparing SOA.
>>>>> I will probably use Linux guest OSs, but I may want to use
a
>>>>> Windows guest for home PC use.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Can you go into more detail about what features you plan to
implement?
>>>
>>> Well, I really do not know too much about Cloud computing, grids
>>> (Globus), or parallel programming, all of which I would like to
touch
>>> upon or possibly go into more depth.
>>
>> You might find these useful for background (you or your school will
need an ACM account):
>> http://techpack.acm.org/cloud/
>> http://techpack.acm.org/parallel/
>>
>>> I was thinking of implementing a grid on the cloud, but then I saw
>>> documentation referring to a cloud on a grid, so when I get there,
I
>>> will work that one out.
>>> My instructor said to compare what I do against SOA, which will
give
>>> me something to work on there as well.
>>>
>>> I am fairly proficient with Linux administration with some
abilities
>>> on other areas, like networking, hardware and some minor software
>>> programming.
>>> So, I do not know what I will need to implement at this point. I
hope
>>> to learn as I go and see if I can come up with something useful.
>>> I want to build this virtual server at home, since the machines
that
>>> I have access to at school are slow and also because school is 50
>>> miles away and I have no other classes to attend, so working at
home
>>> on this seems like the way to do it.
>>>>
>>>> Also, what type of interfaces do you expect to provide to
users? How
>>>> will they connect? etc.
>>>
>>> What I know how to do is use xdmcp for remote sessions.
>>> If I do set up a grid or cluster, then there may be some interface
>>> which that uses.
>>> Again, I hope to be able to find out when I get there.
>>> I plan on choosing a motherboard/CPU and then building the rest of
>>> the machine around those.
>>> I have a coworker who suggested the AMD line and said that due to
the
>>> way the CPU connects to the bus and the rest of the motherboard,
that
>>> three cores is optimal.
>>> I did not get a chance to talk to him about a hypervisor machine
and
>>> whether that also applied to the three cores.
>>>
>>>>
>>>>> I have been trying to make a decision on the CPU and
motherboard to
>>>>> purchase and really could use some help.
>>>>>
>>>>> I have read the wiki post at:
>>>>> http://wiki.xen.org/xenwiki/VTdHowTo?highlight=(vtd)
>>>>>
>>>>> 1) For my purposes, is IOMMU important?
>>>>> If so, then also, for my purposes, it looks like the ASUS
Crosshair
>>>>> IV Formula may be a good choice.
>>>>>
>>>>> ** I would appreciate any input, as to the Crosshair or
other, like the M4A89TD.
>>>>>
>>>>> Now for the CPU and I have really not been able to
determine how
>>>>> many cores is optimal for this server.
>>>>> I have a knowledgeable coworker who says that three cores
is
>>>>> optimal and I have not been able to find information to
support
>>>>> that or dispute it.
>>>>>
>>>>> 2) The Phenom II series seems to be attractive, so I have
been
>>>>> concentrating on those, but can someone also help me with
the X3,
>>>>> X4, or X6 decision?
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>> Joe
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Xen-users mailing list
>>>>> Xen-users@lists.xensource.com
>>>>> http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Xen-users mailing list
>>> Xen-users@lists.xensource.com
>>> http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Xen-users mailing list
>> Xen-users@lists.xensource.com
>> http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users
>>
>
_______________________________________________
Xen-users mailing list
Xen-users@lists.xensource.com
http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users

> 
> Hi Joseph, guys,
> 
> I must say that ECC is kinda market bull. I did used ECC enabled server
> and regular servers built from consumer parts. I've noticed no
> difference whatsoever.
> 
You do understand what ECC is right? It's not a performance thing, it's
an error detection/recovery mechanism.

When everything is working properly you won't notice a thing. When you get a
single bit memory error you shouldn't notice any problems apart from a
message about a faulty memory module which you can then replace. When you get a
double bit memory error you'll know that you've had a memory error
instead of getting a random crash or data corruption problem with no idea of the
cause.

I've seen ECC catch memory errors a few times, so people aren't just
making this stuff up.

James


_______________________________________________
Xen-users mailing list
Xen-users@lists.xensource.com
http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users

I get the "Daily Digest" version of this forum and I see no way to
reply to messages, so I am generating a new message and copying the
subject to the list, but I do not think it will show up in sequence to
the original messages, like it is supposed to. Oh well..

In reply to Marek:

You wrote:
<snip>
"This is where the difference between Intel and AMD is the biggest. Intel
seems to be disabling CPU features at random and this will lead to
problems with virtualization.
Assuming you are interested in going with at least a quad core. Three
cores may also be enough, but two would likely be too few if you want to
run several VMs at once. This immediately limits your options to only some
CPUs.
I assume you won''t be getting a Sandy Bridge i5 due to the SATA 2
controller issue in the chipset, so the only i5 is Lynnfield (750 and
760), but neither has support for VT-d. All Lynnfield Core i7 CPUs support
VT-d apart from 875K (just so you know, I don''t think you were
interested
in that one, anyway). Support for VT-d with 900 series depends on the
motherboard and its BIOS.

Conversely, AMD enables everything on its entire CPU range. If it''s
based
on K10.5, it will have support for AMD-V, memory ECC, and with the right
motherboard (currently limited to 890FX-based), IOMMU. Your choice, but
for virtualization, especially on a budget, nothing beats AMD."
</snip>

I was thinking about the i5-4500, which has VT-d, but then after
talking to a coworker, I started to consider AMD.
I did not want to wait for the Sandy Bridge fix, but I was still
trying to decide, but that was where I was at a week ago.
I then looked at the Phenom II product line and was trying to decide
on their latest 1100, but did not know about how Xen uses the number
of cores, which prompted this message thread.
Ryan has indicated that Xen will use as many cores as there are, so
based on that, and on his decision to go with the Xeon, I thought that
the 8 core magny cours Opteron would make things real nice for this
project.
After this project is complete, I could decide whether to continue
using the server or sell it off.

You wrote:
<snip>
> I know that server grade CPUs are constructed totally different than
> general desktop CPUs, but I do not know why or how that would effect
> my processing environment and my experience on this system.
Not totally different. If anything, some features may have been fused off,
but otherwise the dies are exactly the same. Since Intel is using LGA
across the board, they have the same mounting as well (AMD uses PGA
sockets, while all current Opterons use LGA).
One feature missing from consumer version of Intel CPUs is lack of support
for ECC on any of the buses (I''m not sure about cache ECC). This is
important, because if you want to run a server, you''ll want to have ECC
protection on pretty much everything, so if you want to go with Intel, get
a Xeon (even i7-900 series don''t support ECC memory or QPI). AMD, on
the
other hand, does support ECC on both HyperTransport (by design) and on the
memory controller with all current consumer CPUs.
Fundamentally, however, there are no differences between the enterprise
and the consumer versions of a given CPU. If any given software demands a
''server-grade CPU'', rather than server-specific features,
it''s usually
bogus, since, e.g., an Athlon with ECC memory is server grade, while an
Opteron with no-ECC memory is not, regardless of the CPU brand.
</snip>

I did not know that about the Phenom and i7 as NOT using ECC, but that
is good to know.
At the time, I was going to try and decide on which memory to use,
after I finalized my CPU/motherboard choice.
That is ok, since I am working now on choosing between the 4100 or
6100 series of Opteron.
I need to find out if the 4100 can do the IOMMU as good as the 6100.
I have the data sheets on each and I am going to review them now.
I will then see if I can afford all this with the ECC RAM and all.

You wrote:
<snip>
Now, all the above assumes that you will want to make use of VT-d/AMD-Vi.
Once you finish your thesis, I doubt you''ll continue running the cloud
services (for which VT-d is maybe an afterthought), but you will want to
make the machine relevant for home use. If you prefer running a Linux
desktop, but you''d still like to play the latest games in a Windows VM
(where IOMMU shines), then there''s no choice, but to go for something
that
supports IOMMU. Note that using a machine at home usually implies that you
won''t be needing ECC, so if you''re fine with no ECC, then feel
free to
disregard the caveat about Intel Core CPUs.

Regards,
Marek
</snip>

Yes, I thought that the AMD-Vi would be a good choice.
I would not want to have any obstacles with my VM running Windows for
home use and I also thought that IOMMU would make it easier for me to
learn Xen.

In reply to Adrian,

ECC is something that you may not notice when things are running well,
but if you are a company in a production environment, you do not want
to get corrupt memory causing you expensive problems, only to find out
weeks or months later when the memory finally goes and you see how
much this really cost you.
For my home use, it is only going to be peace of mind, etc., so like I
said above, if I can afford it, I will choose it. If I cannot afford
it, then non-ECC RAM will be ok for my purposes.
Thanks for the heads up on the power usage and noise. And the green
choices. Once I decide, I will consider all that as well.
I am not much of a gamer, but I may delve into some of those other
projects you mention.

Thanks everyone,
Joe

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Mechanical and power supply issues aside, ECC errors are the most common  
reason for component replacement in the field. Memory does fail.  
Furthermore, cosmic radiation, as far-fetched as it sounds, is a real  
problem and a single bit flip on non-ECC systems will trigger a system  
panic (if you''re lucky, only the VM will fail, if unlucky, the whole  
system will reboot). Analyzing crash dumps to find the offending module is  
rather unpleasant to say the least (depending on how the OS handles memory  
access), and you won''t know if the problem was with the hardware or a  
random occurrence.

I''ve seen systems which had a constant zero or one on one of the memory
module pins (lines) due to vibration, resulting in constant error  
messages. With ECC, which reported the exact bit, it was trivial to  
diagnose and resolve. With standard memory, it would have panicked every  
time the server was booted -- the frustration would have been unbelievable.

If anything, ECC does NOT enhance performance. If anything, you''ll get
lower performance as I''ve seen no ECC modules which went beyond JEDEC  
specified DDR standards (for frequency and latency). I.e., the fastest ECC  
DDR3 memory is 1333 MHz CL9. You can get 1866 MHz CL7 and something like  
2400 MHz CL9, but only non-ECC, so when it comes to performance, ECC  
limits it (aside from the obvious delays due to outages).

One thing which you should bear in mind, and which you should check before  
springing for expensive equipment: check how memory errors are reported on  
the system you are building. FWIW, I know that ECC errors with AMD under  
Linux are very readable (when building the kernel, you have the option to  
choose human-readable ECC error reporting, which is available for AMD  
only). Syncfloods on HT are also diagnosable. I don''t know how it looks
with Intel under Linux, although I can confirm that memory errors are  
mostly easily diagnosable under Solaris, both with Intel and with AMD.

Just so you know, if you go with AMD, you don''t have to get Opteron to
get
ECC. All 890FX system boards support ECC (some mainstream boards based on  
other chipsets might not allow it in BIOS), and nearly all support IOMMU.  
With Intel, you have to get a Xeon, paying more in the process. I do use  
AMD-based PC at home, I''m not an AMD employee. If I was going with
brand
loyalty based on the companies I work for, I''d be recommending Intel

Marek

Dnia 20-02-2011 o 09:17:56 James Harper <james.harper@bendigoit.com.au>  
napisał(a):
>>
>> Hi Joseph, guys,
>>
>> I must say that ECC is kinda market bull. I did used ECC enabled server
>> and regular servers built from consumer parts. I''ve noticed no
>> difference whatsoever.
>>
>
> You do understand what ECC is right? It''s not a performance thing,
it''s
> an error detection/recovery mechanism.
>
> When everything is working properly you won''t notice a thing. When
you
> get a single bit memory error you shouldn''t notice any problems
apart
> from a message about a faulty memory module which you can then replace.  
> When you get a double bit memory error you''ll know that
you''ve had a
> memory error instead of getting a random crash or data corruption  
> problem with no idea of the cause.
>
> I''ve seen ECC catch memory errors a few times, so people
aren''t just
> making this stuff up.
>
> James
>

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Dnia 20-02-2011 o 15:38:38 Joseph Commisso <commissoje@gmail.com>  
napisał(a):
> In reply to Marek:
>
> I did not know that about the Phenom and i7 as NOT using ECC, but that
> is good to know.
Phenom does support ECC, i7 does not.
> At the time, I was going to try and decide on which memory to use,
> after I finalized my CPU/motherboard choice.
> That is ok, since I am working now on choosing between the 4100 or
> 6100 series of Opteron.
> I need to find out if the 4100 can do the IOMMU as good as the 6100.
> I have the data sheets on each and I am going to review them now.
> I will then see if I can afford all this with the ECC RAM and all.
4100 does IOMMU just as well as 6100. It is a chipset feature, make sure  
to get a 5670 or 5690 based motherboard, and confirm that it supports  
IOMMU. If 6 cores are enough for you at this point, go for C32 socket  
motherboard (4100). Both C32 and G34 will allow drop-in upgrades to  
Bulldozer assuming BIOS updates are available (so make sure you are  
getting a recent motherboard revision).
> Yes, I thought that the AMD-Vi would be a good choice.
> I would not want to have any obstacles with my VM running Windows for
> home use and I also thought that IOMMU would make it easier for me to
> learn Xen.
And I agree with that sentiment. One caveat: for the time being, you have  
to decide if you want Turbo or Xen. I can''t get 2.6.37 or 2.6.38 Xen  
kernels to boot (and I don''t want to mess up my configuration, so
I''m
waiting until 2.6.38 comes to the mainstream), and 2.6.32 does not support  
Turbo or later fixes to performance (since I have a rather extensive RAID  
configuration, I want the 2.6.36 fixes to large block handling), so  
currently I''m dual-booting (Windows just to play games). If you are
fine
to make some concessions, you''ll be very happy with running the older  
kernel.

Apparently support for Intel turbo is available with 2.6.32, so you can  
get some performance boost (although it''s insignificant on Intel CPUs  
you''d likely be considering).

Marek
>
> _______________________________________________
> Xen-users mailing list
> Xen-users@lists.xensource.com
> http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users

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