Xen devel - Mar 2009 - Cluster (VPC), Eucalyptus and preferred distribution to it.

In english:

Buddies,

 The Eucalyptus is a system to build a cluster and provide a service such as
Amazon EC2 on its own structure. It is very promising, flexible, stable and
well documented.

 The team of Eucalyptus just created an Internet election to choose which
distributions will be officialy supported by it.

 I would ask everyone for voting in Debian! Let me explain why.

 I have personally tested several distributions that support Xen (as dom0
and domU), such as CentOS, RedHat, Fedora, openSUSE 11.1, Debian Etch and
Lenny, Gentoo, Ubuntu and even in OpenSolaris 2008.11. And after months of
testing, I came to conclusion that the Xen in Debian has the best of all!

 I do not want to start a flame war, but we need the Eucalyptus officially
supported in Debian. My Xen cluster is powered Debian 5.0.

 Look well, Ubuntu is the most voted there, BUT, he does not officially
supports the Xen, only KVM, the Eucalyptus in Ubuntu will not support Xen
out of the box, I guess, since Ubuntu does not provide support for dom0.

 But the Xen in Debian is very stable! So it would be great if the
Eucalyptus support Debian too!

 Debian supports both Hypervisores, the Xen and KVM (and Eucalyptus too)
then I believe it is the best choice for the solution because of this.


 Preferred Linux distribution for Eucalyptus? Vote in Debian!  [?]

 http://www.micropoll.com/akira/mpview/564200-152224


 If the Xen in Debian was not good enough, I would not have mounted the Xen
Live CD v2.0 with it! Think about it!

 Xen Live CD it''s powered by Debian Lenny 5.0, because the Xen on it is
really good!

 http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/LiveCD

 Please vote in Debian!

Best regards,
Thiago

-----
Em português:

Cluster (VPC), Eucalyptus e distribuição preferida para ele.

Amigos,

 O Eucalyptus é um sistema para montar um cluster e prover um serviço como o
Amazon EC2 em sua própria estrutura. É muito promissor, flexível, estável e
bem documentado.

 O time do Eucalyptus acaba de criar uma votação na Internet para eleger
distribuições que suportarão a solução oficialmente.

 Gostaria de pedir a todos, que votem no Debian! Vou explicar o motivo.

 Eu pessoalmente já testei o Xen (como dom0 e domU) muito, mas muito mesmo,
em diversas distribuições, como CentOS, RedHat, Fedora, Debian, Gentoo,
Ubuntu e até no OpenSolaris 2008.11. E depois de meses de testes, cheguei a
conclusão de que o Debian possuí o melhor Xen de todos!

 Não quero iniciar uma guerra mas, precisamos muito do Eucalyptus
oficialmente no Debian. Meu cluster de Hypervisores Xen é todo baseado no
Debian.

 Vejam bem, o Ubuntu está sendo o mais votado lá, MAS, ele NÃO suporta o Xen
oficialmente, somente o KVM, logo, o Eucalyptus no Ubuntu não irá suportar o
Xen de fábrica, acredito eu, pois o Ubuntu não provê o suporte a dom0.

 Já o Xen do Debian, é muito estável! Então seria ótimo se o Eucalyptus
suportar o Debian também!

 O Debian suporta ambos hypervisores, o Xen e o KVM (e o Eucalyptus também),
então, acredito que ele seja a melhor escolha para a solução por causa
disso.


 Distribuição de Linux preferida para o Eucalyptus? Votem no Debian! [?]

 http://www.micropoll.com/akira/mpview/564200-152224


 Se o Xen no Debian não fosse bom, eu não teria montado o Live CD do Xen
v2.0 com ele! Pensem nisso!

 O Live CD do Xen é baseado no Debian Lenny 5.0 porque o Xen nele, é
realmente o melhor!

 http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/LiveCD

 Por gentileza, votem no Debian!!

Atenciosamente,
Thiago



_______________________________________________
Xen-users mailing list
Xen-users@lists.xensource.com
http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users

Thiago, I''m curious why Debian over say Centos?

- Brian




On Mar 27, 2009, at 10:33 AM, Thiago Camargo Martins Cordeiro wrote:
> In english:
>
> Buddies,
>
>  The Eucalyptus is a system to build a cluster and provide a service  
> such as Amazon EC2 on its own structure. It is very promising,  
> flexible, stable and well documented.
>
>  The team of Eucalyptus just created an Internet election to choose  
> which distributions will be officialy supported by it.
>
>  I would ask everyone for voting in Debian! Let me explain why.
>
>  I have personally tested several distributions that support Xen (as  
> dom0 and domU), such as CentOS, RedHat, Fedora, openSUSE 11.1,  
> Debian Etch and Lenny, Gentoo, Ubuntu and even in OpenSolaris  
> 2008.11. And after months of testing, I came to conclusion that the  
> Xen in Debian has the best of all!
>
>  I do not want to start a flame war, but we need the Eucalyptus  
> officially supported in Debian. My Xen cluster is powered Debian 5.0.
>
>  Look well, Ubuntu is the most voted there, BUT, he does not  
> officially supports the Xen, only KVM, the Eucalyptus in Ubuntu will  
> not support Xen out of the box, I guess, since Ubuntu does not  
> provide support for dom0.
>
>  But the Xen in Debian is very stable! So it would be great if the  
> Eucalyptus support Debian too!
>
>  Debian supports both Hypervisores, the Xen and KVM (and Eucalyptus  
> too) then I believe it is the best choice for the solution because  
> of this.
>
>
>  Preferred Linux distribution for Eucalyptus? Vote in Debian!   
> <360.gif>
>
>  http://www.micropoll.com/akira/mpview/564200-152224
>
>
>  If the Xen in Debian was not good enough, I would not have mounted  
> the Xen Live CD v2.0 with it! Think about it!
>
>  Xen Live CD it''s powered by Debian Lenny 5.0, because the Xen on
it
> is really good!
>
>  http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/LiveCD
>
>  Please vote in Debian!
>
> Best regards,
> Thiago
>
> -----
> Em português:
>
> Cluster (VPC), Eucalyptus e distribuição preferida para ele.
>
> Amigos,
>
>  O Eucalyptus é um sistema para montar um cluster e prover um  
> serviço como o Amazon EC2 em sua própria estrutura. É muito  
> promissor, flexível, estável e bem documentado.
>
>  O time do Eucalyptus acaba de criar uma votação na Internet para  
> eleger distribuições que suportarão a solução oficialmente.
>
>  Gostaria de pedir a todos, que votem no Debian! Vou explicar o  
> motivo.
>
>  Eu pessoalmente já testei o Xen (como dom0 e domU) muito, mas muito  
> mesmo, em diversas distribuições, como CentOS, RedHat, Fedora,  
> Debian, Gentoo, Ubuntu e até no OpenSolaris 2008.11. E depois de  
> meses de testes, cheguei a conclusão de que o Debian possuí o melhor  
> Xen de todos!
>
>  Não quero iniciar uma guerra mas, precisamos muito do Eucalyptus  
> oficialmente no Debian. Meu cluster de Hypervisores Xen é todo  
> baseado no Debian.
>
>  Vejam bem, o Ubuntu está sendo o mais votado lá, MAS, ele NÃO  
> suporta o Xen oficialmente, somente o KVM, logo, o Eucalyptus no  
> Ubuntu não irá suportar o Xen de fábrica, acredito eu, pois o Ubuntu  
> não provê o suporte a dom0.
>
>  Já o Xen do Debian, é muito estável! Então seria ótimo se o  
> Eucalyptus suportar o Debian também!
>
>  O Debian suporta ambos hypervisores, o Xen e o KVM (e o Eucalyptus  
> também), então, acredito que ele seja a melhor escolha para a  
> solução por causa disso.
>
>
>  Distribuição de Linux preferida para o Eucalyptus? Votem no Debian!  
> <360.gif>
>
>  http://www.micropoll.com/akira/mpview/564200-152224
>
>
>  Se o Xen no Debian não fosse bom, eu não teria montado o Live CD do  
> Xen v2.0 com ele! Pensem nisso!
>
>  O Live CD do Xen é baseado no Debian Lenny 5.0 porque o Xen nele, é  
> realmente o melhor!
>
>  http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/LiveCD
>
>  Por gentileza, votem no Debian!!
>
> Atenciosamente,
> Thiago
>
> _______________________________________________
> Xen-users mailing list
> Xen-users@lists.xensource.com
> http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users


_______________________________________________
Xen-users mailing list
Xen-users@lists.xensource.com
http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users

OMG, Ubuntu seems to be leading the way, I think I''ll go vomit now.

Thiago, why do you think Ubuntu is leading the way?

- Brian




On Mar 27, 2009, at 10:33 AM, Thiago Camargo Martins Cordeiro wrote:
> In english:
>
> Buddies,
>
>  The Eucalyptus is a system to build a cluster and provide a service  
> such as Amazon EC2 on its own structure. It is very promising,  
> flexible, stable and well documented.
>
>  The team of Eucalyptus just created an Internet election to choose  
> which distributions will be officialy supported by it.
>
>  I would ask everyone for voting in Debian! Let me explain why.
>
>  I have personally tested several distributions that support Xen (as  
> dom0 and domU), such as CentOS, RedHat, Fedora, openSUSE 11.1,  
> Debian Etch and Lenny, Gentoo, Ubuntu and even in OpenSolaris  
> 2008.11. And after months of testing, I came to conclusion that the  
> Xen in Debian has the best of all!
>
>  I do not want to start a flame war, but we need the Eucalyptus  
> officially supported in Debian. My Xen cluster is powered Debian 5.0.
>
>  Look well, Ubuntu is the most voted there, BUT, he does not  
> officially supports the Xen, only KVM, the Eucalyptus in Ubuntu will  
> not support Xen out of the box, I guess, since Ubuntu does not  
> provide support for dom0.
>
>  But the Xen in Debian is very stable! So it would be great if the  
> Eucalyptus support Debian too!
>
>  Debian supports both Hypervisores, the Xen and KVM (and Eucalyptus  
> too) then I believe it is the best choice for the solution because  
> of this.
>
>
>  Preferred Linux distribution for Eucalyptus? Vote in Debian!   
> <360.gif>
>
>  http://www.micropoll.com/akira/mpview/564200-152224
>
>
>  If the Xen in Debian was not good enough, I would not have mounted  
> the Xen Live CD v2.0 with it! Think about it!
>
>  Xen Live CD it''s powered by Debian Lenny 5.0, because the Xen on
it
> is really good!
>
>  http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/LiveCD
>
>  Please vote in Debian!
>
> Best regards,
> Thiago
>
> -----
> Em português:
>
> Cluster (VPC), Eucalyptus e distribuição preferida para ele.
>
> Amigos,
>
>  O Eucalyptus é um sistema para montar um cluster e prover um  
> serviço como o Amazon EC2 em sua própria estrutura. É muito  
> promissor, flexível, estável e bem documentado.
>
>  O time do Eucalyptus acaba de criar uma votação na Internet para  
> eleger distribuições que suportarão a solução oficialmente.
>
>  Gostaria de pedir a todos, que votem no Debian! Vou explicar o  
> motivo.
>
>  Eu pessoalmente já testei o Xen (como dom0 e domU) muito, mas muito  
> mesmo, em diversas distribuições, como CentOS, RedHat, Fedora,  
> Debian, Gentoo, Ubuntu e até no OpenSolaris 2008.11. E depois de  
> meses de testes, cheguei a conclusão de que o Debian possuí o melhor  
> Xen de todos!
>
>  Não quero iniciar uma guerra mas, precisamos muito do Eucalyptus  
> oficialmente no Debian. Meu cluster de Hypervisores Xen é todo  
> baseado no Debian.
>
>  Vejam bem, o Ubuntu está sendo o mais votado lá, MAS, ele NÃO  
> suporta o Xen oficialmente, somente o KVM, logo, o Eucalyptus no  
> Ubuntu não irá suportar o Xen de fábrica, acredito eu, pois o Ubuntu  
> não provê o suporte a dom0.
>
>  Já o Xen do Debian, é muito estável! Então seria ótimo se o  
> Eucalyptus suportar o Debian também!
>
>  O Debian suporta ambos hypervisores, o Xen e o KVM (e o Eucalyptus  
> também), então, acredito que ele seja a melhor escolha para a  
> solução por causa disso.
>
>
>  Distribuição de Linux preferida para o Eucalyptus? Votem no Debian!  
> <360.gif>
>
>  http://www.micropoll.com/akira/mpview/564200-152224
>
>
>  Se o Xen no Debian não fosse bom, eu não teria montado o Live CD do  
> Xen v2.0 com ele! Pensem nisso!
>
>  O Live CD do Xen é baseado no Debian Lenny 5.0 porque o Xen nele, é  
> realmente o melhor!
>
>  http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/LiveCD
>
>  Por gentileza, votem no Debian!!
>
> Atenciosamente,
> Thiago
>
> _______________________________________________
> Xen-users mailing list
> Xen-users@lists.xensource.com
> http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users


_______________________________________________
Xen-users mailing list
Xen-users@lists.xensource.com
http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users

Why not Centos??? This must be a joke if Ubuntu is wining...
><>
Nathan Stratton                                CTO, BlinkMind, Inc.
nathan at robotics.net                         nathan at blinkmind.com
http://www.robotics.net                        http://www.blinkmind.com

On Fri, 27 Mar 2009, Thiago Camargo Martins Cordeiro wrote:
> In english:
>
> Buddies,
>
> The Eucalyptus is a system to build a cluster and provide a service such as
> Amazon EC2 on its own structure. It is very promising, flexible, stable and
> well documented.
>
> The team of Eucalyptus just created an Internet election to choose which
> distributions will be officialy supported by it.
>
> I would ask everyone for voting in Debian! Let me explain why.
>
> I have personally tested several distributions that support Xen (as dom0
> and domU), such as CentOS, RedHat, Fedora, openSUSE 11.1, Debian Etch and
> Lenny, Gentoo, Ubuntu and even in OpenSolaris 2008.11. And after months of
> testing, I came to conclusion that the Xen in Debian has the best of all!
>
> I do not want to start a flame war, but we need the Eucalyptus officially
> supported in Debian. My Xen cluster is powered Debian 5.0.
>
> Look well, Ubuntu is the most voted there, BUT, he does not officially
> supports the Xen, only KVM, the Eucalyptus in Ubuntu will not support Xen
> out of the box, I guess, since Ubuntu does not provide support for dom0.
>
> But the Xen in Debian is very stable! So it would be great if the
> Eucalyptus support Debian too!
>
> Debian supports both Hypervisores, the Xen and KVM (and Eucalyptus too)
> then I believe it is the best choice for the solution because of this.
>
>
> Preferred Linux distribution for Eucalyptus? Vote in Debian!  [?]
>
> http://www.micropoll.com/akira/mpview/564200-152224
>
>
> If the Xen in Debian was not good enough, I would not have mounted the Xen
> Live CD v2.0 with it! Think about it!
>
> Xen Live CD it''s powered by Debian Lenny 5.0, because the Xen on
it is
> really good!
>
> http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/LiveCD
>
> Please vote in Debian!
>
> Best regards,
> Thiago
>
> -----
> Em português:
>
> Cluster (VPC), Eucalyptus e distribuição preferida para ele.
>
> Amigos,
>
> O Eucalyptus é um sistema para montar um cluster e prover um serviço como o
> Amazon EC2 em sua própria estrutura. É muito promissor, flexível, estável e
> bem documentado.
>
> O time do Eucalyptus acaba de criar uma votação na Internet para eleger
> distribuições que suportarão a solução oficialmente.
>
> Gostaria de pedir a todos, que votem no Debian! Vou explicar o motivo.
>
> Eu pessoalmente já testei o Xen (como dom0 e domU) muito, mas muito mesmo,
> em diversas distribuições, como CentOS, RedHat, Fedora, Debian, Gentoo,
> Ubuntu e até no OpenSolaris 2008.11. E depois de meses de testes, cheguei a
> conclusão de que o Debian possuí o melhor Xen de todos!
>
> Não quero iniciar uma guerra mas, precisamos muito do Eucalyptus
> oficialmente no Debian. Meu cluster de Hypervisores Xen é todo baseado no
> Debian.
>
> Vejam bem, o Ubuntu está sendo o mais votado lá, MAS, ele NÃO suporta o Xen
> oficialmente, somente o KVM, logo, o Eucalyptus no Ubuntu não irá suportar
o
> Xen de fábrica, acredito eu, pois o Ubuntu não provê o suporte a dom0.
>
> Já o Xen do Debian, é muito estável! Então seria ótimo se o Eucalyptus
> suportar o Debian também!
>
> O Debian suporta ambos hypervisores, o Xen e o KVM (e o Eucalyptus também),
> então, acredito que ele seja a melhor escolha para a solução por causa
> disso.
>
>
> Distribuição de Linux preferida para o Eucalyptus? Votem no Debian! [?]
>
> http://www.micropoll.com/akira/mpview/564200-152224
>
>
> Se o Xen no Debian não fosse bom, eu não teria montado o Live CD do Xen
> v2.0 com ele! Pensem nisso!
>
> O Live CD do Xen é baseado no Debian Lenny 5.0 porque o Xen nele, é
> realmente o melhor!
>
> http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/LiveCD
>
> Por gentileza, votem no Debian!!
>
> Atenciosamente,
> Thiago
>
_______________________________________________
Xen-users mailing list
Xen-users@lists.xensource.com
http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users

Yeah... I agree, but Eucalyptus team has just move the source code of the
project into the Launchpad... Ubuntu will be the distro for Eucalyptus, as I
see...

CentOS does not have aptitude/apt... no flames pleeeease!  :-P

Look, I prefer CentOS rather than Ubuntu for dom0 but... after 10 years of
Debian, who wants to change?   ;-)

-
 Thiago

2009/3/27 Nathan Stratton <nathan@robotics.net>
>
> Why not Centos??? This must be a joke if Ubuntu is wining...
>
>  <>
>>
> Nathan Stratton                                CTO, BlinkMind, Inc.
> nathan at robotics.net                         nathan at blinkmind.com
> http://www.robotics.net                        http://www.blinkmind.com
>
> On Fri, 27 Mar 2009, Thiago Camargo Martins Cordeiro wrote:
>
>  In english:
>>
>> Buddies,
>>
>> The Eucalyptus is a system to build a cluster and provide a service
such
>> as
>> Amazon EC2 on its own structure. It is very promising, flexible, stable
>> and
>> well documented.
>>
>> The team of Eucalyptus just created an Internet election to choose
which
>> distributions will be officialy supported by it.
>>
>> I would ask everyone for voting in Debian! Let me explain why.
>>
>> I have personally tested several distributions that support Xen (as
dom0
>> and domU), such as CentOS, RedHat, Fedora, openSUSE 11.1, Debian Etch
and
>> Lenny, Gentoo, Ubuntu and even in OpenSolaris 2008.11. And after months
of
>> testing, I came to conclusion that the Xen in Debian has the best of
all!
>>
>> I do not want to start a flame war, but we need the Eucalyptus
officially
>> supported in Debian. My Xen cluster is powered Debian 5.0.
>>
>> Look well, Ubuntu is the most voted there, BUT, he does not officially
>> supports the Xen, only KVM, the Eucalyptus in Ubuntu will not support
Xen
>> out of the box, I guess, since Ubuntu does not provide support for
dom0.
>>
>> But the Xen in Debian is very stable! So it would be great if the
>> Eucalyptus support Debian too!
>>
>> Debian supports both Hypervisores, the Xen and KVM (and Eucalyptus too)
>> then I believe it is the best choice for the solution because of this.
>>
>>
>> Preferred Linux distribution for Eucalyptus? Vote in Debian!  [?]
>>
>>
>> http://www.micropoll.com/akira/mpview/564200-152224
>>
>>
>> If the Xen in Debian was not good enough, I would not have mounted the
Xen
>> Live CD v2.0 with it! Think about it!
>>
>> Xen Live CD it''s powered by Debian Lenny 5.0, because the Xen
on it is
>> really good!
>>
>> http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/LiveCD
>>
>> Please vote in Debian!
>>
>> Best regards,
>> Thiago
>>
>> -----
>> Em português:
>>
>> Cluster (VPC), Eucalyptus e distribuição preferida para ele.
>>
>> Amigos,
>>
>> O Eucalyptus é um sistema para montar um cluster e prover um serviço
como
>> o
>> Amazon EC2 em sua própria estrutura. É muito promissor, flexível,
estável
>> e
>> bem documentado.
>>
>> O time do Eucalyptus acaba de criar uma votação na Internet para eleger
>> distribuições que suportarão a solução oficialmente.
>>
>> Gostaria de pedir a todos, que votem no Debian! Vou explicar o motivo.
>>
>> Eu pessoalmente já testei o Xen (como dom0 e domU) muito, mas muito
mesmo,
>> em diversas distribuições, como CentOS, RedHat, Fedora, Debian, Gentoo,
>> Ubuntu e até no OpenSolaris 2008.11. E depois de meses de testes,
cheguei
>> a
>> conclusão de que o Debian possuí o melhor Xen de todos!
>>
>> Não quero iniciar uma guerra mas, precisamos muito do Eucalyptus
>> oficialmente no Debian. Meu cluster de Hypervisores Xen é todo baseado
no
>> Debian.
>>
>> Vejam bem, o Ubuntu está sendo o mais votado lá, MAS, ele NÃO suporta o
>> Xen
>> oficialmente, somente o KVM, logo, o Eucalyptus no Ubuntu não irá
suportar
>> o
>> Xen de fábrica, acredito eu, pois o Ubuntu não provê o suporte a dom0.
>>
>> Já o Xen do Debian, é muito estável! Então seria ótimo se o Eucalyptus
>> suportar o Debian também!
>>
>> O Debian suporta ambos hypervisores, o Xen e o KVM (e o Eucalyptus
>> também),
>> então, acredito que ele seja a melhor escolha para a solução por causa
>> disso.
>>
>>
>> Distribuição de Linux preferida para o Eucalyptus? Votem no Debian! [?]
>>
>> http://www.micropoll.com/akira/mpview/564200-152224
>>
>>
>> Se o Xen no Debian não fosse bom, eu não teria montado o Live CD do Xen
>> v2.0 com ele! Pensem nisso!
>>
>> O Live CD do Xen é baseado no Debian Lenny 5.0 porque o Xen nele, é
>> realmente o melhor!
>>
>> http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/LiveCD
>>
>> Por gentileza, votem no Debian!!
>>
>> Atenciosamente,
>> Thiago
>>
>

_______________________________________________
Xen-users mailing list
Xen-users@lists.xensource.com
http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users

Hello,

I trying to get vt-d to work with my xen setup.
I''m following the (very clear) instructions on 
http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/VTdHowTo
however when I configure my kernel, I have the also the options pci 
backend mode the options are 1) virtual, 2) passthrough, 3) slot.

what is the most commonly used and why?


xen 3.3.1 18494
openSUSE 11.1

mfg,

jeroen

_______________________________________________
Xen-users mailing list
Xen-users@lists.xensource.com
http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users

Thiago Camargo Martins Cordeiro <thiagocmartinsc@gmail.com>
writes:
>  The Eucalyptus is a system to build a cluster and provide a service such
as
> Amazon EC2 on its own structure. It is very promising, flexible, stable and
> well documented.
Hm.  that''s good to hear.   I plan on setting up a Eucalyptus cluster
myself
soon
>  The team of Eucalyptus just created an Internet election to choose which
> distributions will be officialy supported by it.
> 
>  I would ask everyone for voting in Debian! Let me explain why.
Eh, personally I have been using CentOS/RHEL for a while (mostly because
that''s what my consulting clients want, so I might as well get
experience
that is relivant.)  

Recently, though, I''ve moved prgmr.com to the Xen.org kernels, because
xen.org 3.3 is compellingly better, as far as I can tell, than the backported
RHEL  5.2  Xen 3.1/3.0.3 mess.  

I''ve stuck with a CentOS userland, as the xen.org kernel is 2.6.18,
just
like the CentOS 5 kernel, so it mostly works as a drop-in replacement.  
Last time I did this with a distro that was expecting a more modern 
kernel, I had to replace all sorts of utilities... from vmstat on up.  

I do think that the 3.3 hypervisor is compellingly better than the 3.1/3.0.3 
hypervisor that CentOS/RHEL and ec2 use, and it''s backwards compatable,
so
I don''t see the point of hobbling yourself just ''cause amazon
has done so.


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Thiago Camargo Martins Cordeiro wrote:
>  I do not want to start a flame war, but we need the Eucalyptus
> officially supported in Debian. My Xen cluster is powered Debian 5.0.
> 
>  Look well, Ubuntu is the most voted there, BUT, he does not officially
> supports the Xen, only KVM, the Eucalyptus in Ubuntu will not support
> Xen out of the box, I guess, since Ubuntu does not provide support for
dom0.
> 
>  But the Xen in Debian is very stable! So it would be great if the
> Eucalyptus support Debian too!
There is no issue between Ubuntu and Debian. Any of it will be fine as
it''s the same apt/dpkg system, so if one of them is supported, then
porting will be extremely easy.

By the way, I see no importance in the so-called "cloud". I know it
goes
on the opposite way of the current fashion, but I strongly believe that
if you need power, then a cluster of REAL servers (eg: not virtual) is
obviously the way to go. If you don''t need lot''s of resources,
then a
small VPS or 2 are enough. The number of times you will really need
scalability are so small, and even though, scalability can be achieved
without using could.

Give me ONE real life example of something in production and I may
change my mind...

Also, doing a design decision only because of a "vote" is silly to me.
That shouldn''t be the case, the decision should be made out of
technical
aspects, not because people like a particular distro.

Thomas

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Brian Krusic wrote:
> Thiago, I''m curious why Debian over say Centos?
> 
> - Brian
Some of the reasons: CentOS is just plain stupid, rpm and yum are plain
buggy, upgrades are a real pain, yum is so slow and memory eating,
upgrades from one version to another are not possible (see CentOS
website if you don''t trust me about upgrades, that was clearly written
on their website that upgrade from v4 to v5 was NOT supported, which is
unbelievably lame).

Thomas

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Luke S Crawford wrote:
> Eh, personally I have been using CentOS/RHEL for a while (mostly because
> that''s what my consulting clients want, so I might as well get
experience
> that is relivant.)  
> 
> Recently, though, I''ve moved prgmr.com to the Xen.org kernels,
because
> xen.org 3.3 is compellingly better, as far as I can tell, than the
backported
> RHEL  5.2  Xen 3.1/3.0.3 mess.  
> 
> I''ve stuck with a CentOS userland, as the xen.org kernel is
2.6.18, just
> like the CentOS 5 kernel, so it mostly works as a drop-in replacement.  
> Last time I did this with a distro that was expecting a more modern 
> kernel, I had to replace all sorts of utilities... from vmstat on up.  
> 
> I do think that the 3.3 hypervisor is compellingly better than the
3.1/3.0.3
> hypervisor that CentOS/RHEL and ec2 use, and it''s backwards
compatable, so
> I don''t see the point of hobbling yourself just ''cause
amazon has done so.
What prevents you from using the hypervisor 3.3 in Debian? IT IS
available (just not in Lenny directly, but still available).

Thomas

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Here here, I agree 110%.

- Brian




On Mar 27, 2009, at 9:14 PM, Thomas Goirand wrote:
> Thiago Camargo Martins Cordeiro wrote:
>> I do not want to start a flame war, but we need the Eucalyptus
>> officially supported in Debian. My Xen cluster is powered Debian 5.0.
>>
>> Look well, Ubuntu is the most voted there, BUT, he does not  
>> officially
>> supports the Xen, only KVM, the Eucalyptus in Ubuntu will not support
>> Xen out of the box, I guess, since Ubuntu does not provide support  
>> for dom0.
>>
>> But the Xen in Debian is very stable! So it would be great if the
>> Eucalyptus support Debian too!
>
> There is no issue between Ubuntu and Debian. Any of it will be fine as
> it''s the same apt/dpkg system, so if one of them is supported,
then
> porting will be extremely easy.
>
> By the way, I see no importance in the so-called "cloud". I know
it
> goes
> on the opposite way of the current fashion, but I strongly believe  
> that
> if you need power, then a cluster of REAL servers (eg: not virtual) is
> obviously the way to go. If you don''t need lot''s of
resources, then a
> small VPS or 2 are enough. The number of times you will really need
> scalability are so small, and even though, scalability can be achieved
> without using could.
>
> Give me ONE real life example of something in production and I may
> change my mind...
>
> Also, doing a design decision only because of a "vote" is silly
to me.
> That shouldn''t be the case, the decision should be made out of  
> technical
> aspects, not because people like a particular distro.
>
> Thomas
>
> _______________________________________________
> Xen-users mailing list
> Xen-users@lists.xensource.com
> http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users

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Thomas Goirand <thomas@goirand.fr> writes:
> What prevents you from using the hypervisor 3.3 in Debian? IT IS
> available (just not in Lenny directly, but still available).

Nothing prevents it.  I''ve done it before.  just saying that if I slap
a 2.6.18 kernel (the xen.org stuff) on a userland that expects something 
else, I will have to do more work to even out the differences than if I sub
out one 2.6.18 kernel for another.

(I understand the RHEL kernel isn''t stock 2.6.18, and neither is the
xen.org
2.6.18, but they are closer to oneanother than to newer kernels.)  

I remember for a while I was using RHEL4 userland (don''t ask why)  with
the xen.org 2.6.16 kernel (I think?   very early xen 3.0)  vmstat
wouldn''t
even work.  (I ended up getting the data direct from /proc) 


I am very much looking forward to the pv_ops dom0 support.  

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Thomas Goirand <thomas@goirand.fr> writes:
> Thiago Camargo Martins Cordeiro wrote:
> By the way, I see no importance in the so-called "cloud". I know
it goes
> on the opposite way of the current fashion, but I strongly believe that
> if you need power, then a cluster of REAL servers (eg: not virtual) is
> obviously the way to go. If you don''t need lot''s of
resources, then a
> small VPS or 2 are enough. The number of times you will really need
> scalability are so small, and even though, scalability can be achieved
> without using could.

How would you like to be able to move your VPS from one provider to another
with a few clicks?
  
That is the real advantage, I think, to something like Eucalyptus.   

If you single source anything, your vendor has a fiduciary duty to their
shareholders to screw you.  Only by always being ready to leave one can you 
force competitiveness.  

Now, sure, 90% of the time, you use the VPS usage model, where you turn the
server on and leave it on.  But making it easy to backup, move and 
provision new boxes is a big plus.

Of course, you can do all those things with existing technologies.  But
when you setup a datacenter, you have to hire a few expensive sysadmins
to figure it out and set it up for you.   (I''m helping a client with 
this right now)   Standardizing this process does have real value.  

I agree that if you are going for maximum power (that is, if you need
more power than is provided by the  best value size of server)  virtualization
hurts more than it helps, however, the standardized provisioning 
concepts can be applied to physical servers as well as virtual servers.


That said, calling it ''cloud computing'' rather than
''standardized provisioning''
is silly marketing bs.   But ''standardized provisioning'' does
have some
real value.  

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Thomas Goirand <thomas@goirand.fr> writes:
> Some of the reasons: CentOS is just plain stupid, rpm and yum are plain
> buggy, upgrades are a real pain, yum is so slow and memory eating,
rpm is, yes, suboptimal. 

the advantage of CentOS is twofold.   

1. you can get a lot of money SysAdmining RHEL boxes for big dumb companies
that feel they need to pay for things.    the other side of that coin is
that there are a lot of SysAdmins familiar with the RedHat way of doing 
things.  

2. RHEL actually does a pretty good job testing things, and keeping things
stable and compatable within a release.   You are pretty safe running 
''yum update''  and rebooting.   With many other distros, well,
often an
upgrade actually changes things.


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Luke S Crawford wrote:
> Thomas Goirand <thomas@goirand.fr> writes:
>> What prevents you from using the hypervisor 3.3 in Debian? IT IS
>> available (just not in Lenny directly, but still available).
> 
> Nothing prevents it.  I''ve done it before.  just saying that if I
slap
> a 2.6.18 kernel (the xen.org stuff) on a userland that expects something 
> else, I will have to do more work to even out the differences than if I sub
> out one 2.6.18 kernel for another.
Why mixing packaged stuffs and sources stuffs together? Of course,
you''ll get in trouble. Either use sources, either use packages, but not
both at the same time, IMHO.

Thomas


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Luke S Crawford wrote:
> Thomas Goirand <thomas@goirand.fr> writes:
>> By the way, I see no importance in the so-called "cloud". I
know it goes
>> on the opposite way of the current fashion, but I strongly believe that
>> if you need power, then a cluster of REAL servers (eg: not virtual) is
>> obviously the way to go. If you don''t need lot''s of
resources, then a
>> small VPS or 2 are enough. The number of times you will really need
>> scalability are so small, and even though, scalability can be achieved
>> without using could.
> 
> How would you like to be able to move your VPS from one provider to another
> with a few clicks?
Can''t you use rsync for that? Is using rsync THAT hard? I
don''t think,
by the way, that a hosting provider will give you in his interface tools
to ease the move out...
> If you single source anything, your vendor has a fiduciary duty to their
> shareholders to screw you.
Well, at GPLHost, we are fully auto-financed, fully self-owned. Why
would we have a duty to ourself to screw our customers? I think this is
quite the opposite, "our job is to help", as I always say. Weather the
customer is leaving or not... The above might apply to SOME provider, I
don''t think it applies to all.

Thomas

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Luke S Crawford wrote:
> Thomas Goirand <thomas@goirand.fr> writes:
>> Some of the reasons: CentOS is just plain stupid, rpm and yum are plain
>> buggy, upgrades are a real pain, yum is so slow and memory eating,
> 
> rpm is, yes, suboptimal. 
> 
> the advantage of CentOS is twofold.   
> 
> 1. you can get a lot of money SysAdmining RHEL boxes for big dumb companies
> that feel they need to pay for things.    the other side of that coin is
> that there are a lot of SysAdmins familiar with the RedHat way of doing 
> things.  
> 
> 2. RHEL actually does a pretty good job testing things, and keeping things
> stable and compatable within a release.   You are pretty safe running 
> ''yum update''  and rebooting.   With many other distros,
well, often an
> upgrade actually changes things.
Let''s not mixup CentOS and RHEL. There''s a BIG BIG difference
in
quality, updates, etc.

As for the "SysAdmins familiar with the RedHat way", well, there is
also
a lot of people familiar with windows and ... [complete yourself here].
I don''t think this is a good technical argument.

Thomas

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Thomas Goirand <thomas@goirand.fr> writes:

lsc> How would you like to be able to move your VPS from one provider to 
lsc> another with a few clicks?
> Can''t you use rsync for that? Is using rsync THAT hard? I
don''t think,
> by the way, that a hosting provider will give you in his interface tools
> to ease the move out...
well, that''s the problem, see, to use rsync and get a clean image, you
really
need the ability to boot into read-only/single user mode.

Is that standard?  I don''t know.   I provide a ''boot into a
read-only disk''
mechanisim that lets you mount your disk to my customers.  there''s an
option
in the PVGRUB menu.   (the system is configured to boot from the menu.lst on
the read only partition, which falls through after two seconds to the menu.lst
on the partition writable to the user.  The idea being that no matter how badly
the user messes up their partition, they can boot into the rescue image.)

Of course, you can always just rsync from a unquiesced, running system,
and it works most of the time.  my point is that the provider can help a lot.

As for "that a hosting provider will give you in his interface tools to
ease the move out..."   I think they *should*  -  I should.   
Right now, though, while I do give you the rescue image you can use, I
don''t
help beyond that.

And GPLhost gives away some of it''s management tools.   So GPLhost does
seem
like the sort of company that would give you a tool to easily move out or
do backups to your own storage.

Besides, everyone who is cheaper than EC2 (and with the price of ram being
what it is, our ranks are growing) has an interest in making it easy
to switch providers.  With a system like Eucalyptus, you could keep backup 
images on ec2, bring them up once a month for an automated test, but run 
most of the time on a lower-priced service that uses the (largely compatable)
Eucalyptus.   Even a very small percentage of the ec2 userbase would be
incredibly awesome for a small provider like me.  

I''m sure that we are both doing the best we can to serve our customers.
My point is that you are best off if you are in a position where any one 
company can screw up (or raise prices on you)  and you are still OK.  

(further, especially for services with negotiated prices, you are in a 
much stronger negotiation position if you can leave.  VPS pricing, though
is usually not negotiated.)  

lsc> If you single source anything, your vendor has a fiduciary duty to their
lsc> shareholders to screw you.
> Well, at GPLHost, we are fully auto-financed, fully self-owned. Why
> would we have a duty to ourself to screw our customers? I think this is
> quite the opposite, "our job is to help", as I always say.
Weather the
> customer is leaving or not... The above might apply to SOME provider, I
> don''t think it applies to all.
I''m sure that both of us are doing as well for our customers as we can.
In fact, I admire what gplhost has done.  Open-sourcing your tools says
very good things about your company.   

I''m just saying, in general, you don''t want to single source
anything.
Companies change hands.  People change.   Companies change.  If nothing
else, if you have 2 providers, you know that a mistake at either one
can''t take out all your capacity.   I know I have made some pretty big
mistakes in my time[1] and I would be at least a little suspicious of any
person or company who claimed to have never made a mistake.


[1] the most recent of which involved not setting dom0-min-mem on one of my
servers, resulting in a server crash last weekend.  Immediately, I''ve
lost a full servers worth of revinue for next month, and probably some
of those customers are not going to renew because of it.  

http://wiki.xen.prgmr.com/xenophilia/2009/03/problems-on-hind-oom-killer-er.html

I plan on setting up a puppet system to make sure I don''t forget this
sort
of thing, but my point is that it happens.  people do stupid things.  
hardware breaks.  

-- 
Luke S. Crawford
http://prgmr.com/xen/  -   Hosting for the technically adept
                           We don''t assume you are stupid.  

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