I've just installed RC2 and I'm very excited about the quality. It's so much better than MP3. This is the first version I've used since I just found out about Ogg Vorbis. I did notice that very high frequencies seem to be missing but since not many people can hear much above 18 KHz it's not much of an issue. I suppose this resolves the hiss problem so prevalent in MP3. The annoying thing I noticed was a pitch change across all bit rates. It's not much of a shift but it's noticeable and it's not nice. I don't have any tools to measure it but I'm guessing that the pitch is shifted up about 25 KHz. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp --- >8 ---- List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ Ogg project homepage: http://www.xiph.org/ogg/ To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'vorbis-request@xiph.org' containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered.
On Wed, 15 Aug 2001, - Sanspoof wrote:> The annoying thing I noticed was a pitch change across all bit rates. It's > not much of a shift but it's noticeable and it's not nice. I don't have any > tools to measure it but I'm guessing that the pitch is shifted up about 25 > KHz.Just a quick check...are you using RedHat RPMS ? It looks like they were significantly broken. I've heard someone else report pitch shifts as well but have never heard them myself. BTW. 25kHz ?? -- GCP --- >8 ---- List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ Ogg project homepage: http://www.xiph.org/ogg/ To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'vorbis-request@xiph.org' containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered.
- Sanspoof <sanspoof@hotmail.com> wrote:
:
: The annoying thing I noticed was a pitch change across all bit rates.
It's
: not much of a shift but it's noticeable and it's not nice. I
don't have any
: tools to measure it but I'm guessing that the pitch is shifted up about 25
: KHz.
Wouldn't that render it inaudible to everyone but some animals?
--
agreenbu @ nyx . net andrew michael greenburg
http://www.nyx.net/~agreenbu/
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Sorry, fat fingered the keyboard. RC2 does change the pitch but not by 24KHz. It jacks it up just a little bit. Barely audible. Just enough to bug me. I also noticed that rumble on the low frequencies and low sample rates. Not really a problem since I like the better quality of higher sample rates. I realize that it's still in development and right now they're focusing on refining the compression algorithms but we need some good tools to create the files. I downloaded that fishy thing. It's cute but needs more functionality. I haven't tried the command line tool yet. From: ndrw mchl grnbrg <agreenbu@nyx.net> Reply-To: vorbis@xiph.org To: vorbis@xiph.org Subject: Re: [vorbis] Pitch shift with RC2 Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 11:32:19 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: from [207.181.249.22] by hotmail.com (3.2) with ESMTP id MHotMailBD43FC5300C540043157CFB5F91605310; Wed, 15 Aug 2001 10:28:57 -0700 Received: by motherfish.xiph.org (Postfix)id 0963318D0A2; Wed, 15 Aug 2001 09:26:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: by motherfish.xiph.org (Postfix, from userid 30)id E683A18D0A4; Wed, 15 Aug 2001 09:26:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from noc.nyx.net (noc.nyx.net [206.124.29.3])by motherfish.xiph.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A716218D0A2for <vorbis@xiph.org>; Wed, 15 Aug 2001 09:25:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nyx10.nyx.net (agreenbu@nyx10.nyx.net [206.124.29.2])by noc.nyx.net (8.9.1a+3.1W/8.9.1/esr) with ESMTP id LAA13223for <vorbis@xiph.org>; Wed, 15 Aug 2001 11:31:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from agreenbu@localhost)by nyx10.nyx.net (8.8.8/8.8.8/esr) id LAA10984for vorbis@xiph.org; Wed, 15 Aug 2001 11:32:20 -0600 (MDT)>From owner-vorbis@xiph.org Wed, 15 Aug 2001 10:30:33 -0700Delivered-To: vorbis-outgoing@xiph.org Delivered-To: vorbis@xiph.org X-Nyx-Envelope-Data: Date=Wed Aug 15 11:32:20 2001, Sender=agreenbu, Recipient=vorbis@xiph.org, Valsender=agreenbu@localhost Message-ID: <20010815113219.A10883@nyx10.nyx.net> Mail-Followup-To: ndrw mchl grnbrg <agreenbu@nyx.net>, vorbis@xiph.org References: <LAW2-F78UA51HLvsqi800009d02@hotmail.com> <20010815081804.A28402@nyx10.nyx.net> <000501c12595$07a20ce0$a73e3004@andydale> User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <000501c12595$07a20ce0$a73e3004@andydale>; from andycool22@peoplepc.com on Wed, Aug 15, 2001 at 10:17:11AM -0400 Sender: owner-vorbis@xiph.org Precedence: bulk Andy (Dale) <andycool22@peoplepc.com> wrote: : pitch shift doesnt mean up to inaudible frequencies, doesnt it mean that : like a normal c note in a song would sound like a d, or something along that : line? A pitch shift of 25 kHz *does* mean up to inaudible frequencies. : ----- Original Message ----- : From: "ndrw mchl grnbrg" <agreenbu@nyx.net> : To: <vorbis@xiph.org> : Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2001 10:18 AM : Subject: Re: [vorbis] Pitch shift with RC2 : : : - Sanspoof <sanspoof@hotmail.com> wrote: : : : : The annoying thing I noticed was a pitch change across all bit rates. : It's : : not much of a shift but it's noticeable and it's not nice. I don't have : any : : tools to measure it but I'm guessing that the pitch is shifted up about 25 : : KHz. : : Wouldn't that render it inaudible to everyone but some animals? -- agreenbu @ nyx . net andrew michael greenburg http://www.nyx.net/~agreenbu/ --- >8 ---- List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ Ogg project homepage: http://www.xiph.org/ogg/ To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'vorbis-request@xiph.org' containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp --- >8 ---- List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ Ogg project homepage: http://www.xiph.org/ogg/ To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'vorbis-request@xiph.org' containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered.
>Just a quick check...are you using RedHat RPMS ?No, using that GUI fishy tool on Windows 2000 to rip the files then playing it back on Winamp. I pulled out my good headphone to make sure I was really hearing it. (sorry about the 25KHz thing - meant to say 25 - 50 Hz. In other words, just barely audible)>It looks like they were significantly broken. I've heard someone else >report pitch shifts as well but have never heard them myself.I don't want everyone to think I'm one of the audio weenies who still buys everything on vinyl. It's just that I hear very well at the higher freqencies and I don't like Steely Dan sounding just a bit like a chipmonk. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp --- >8 ---- List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ Ogg project homepage: http://www.xiph.org/ogg/ To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'vorbis-request@xiph.org' containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered.
I'm using the in-vorbis plug-in dated 2001-06-30 23:29:04.00. Pulled it and Oggdrop off the Vorbis website a few days ago. There's definatly a shift but my ears hear better at middle and higher frequencies so I can't say for certain it's accross the entire spectrum. I suggest pulling a copy of Steely Dan's "Hey Nineteen" and listening to the first 30 seconds from the CD and then sampled at 128. That should highlight the problem without that nasty bass rumble getting in the way. Once you hear it, you'll be able to recongnize it at higher sample rates. I don't want to put too much emphasis on this. Compared to MP3 Ogg is fabulous (and free). MP3 might even have a similar pitch problem that I can't hear because of all the hiss.>I justed tested this.. Windows 2000, Oggdrop (the fishy thing) with >Sennheiser HD580 headphones. I'm not hearing a pitch shift.. What >version >of >in_vorbis for Winamp are you using?_________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp --- >8 ---- List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ Ogg project homepage: http://www.xiph.org/ogg/ To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'vorbis-request@xiph.org' containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered.
It's hard for me to tell if it's proportional with what I've got with me on my current business trip. My hearing is much more sensitive in the higher ranges so I can pick out a slight freq. shift. I hear it on the higher notes of music and in higher pitched instruments (violins, flutes, etc.) I'm not an expert in music or audio so all I can do is tell you what I hear and guess at the Hz shift. I can tell you that it's not a tempo thing. The music has the correct time. I've got some nice clasical music I'm going to try RC2 on this weekend. If I get a chance I'll make some samples of the shift available. I have to say, I'm impressed with how much everone is putting into this shift problem. Makes me long for the days when I was still a programmer. :) From: ndrw mchl grnbrg <agreenbu@nyx.net> Reply-To: vorbis@xiph.org To: vorbis@xiph.org Subject: Re: [vorbis] Pitch shift with RC2 Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 13:52:13 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: from [207.181.249.22] by hotmail.com (3.2) with ESMTP id MHotMailBD441C92001C40043212CFB5F91604AF0; Wed, 15 Aug 2001 12:46:34 -0700 Received: by motherfish.xiph.org (Postfix)id CDC4618D0AA; Wed, 15 Aug 2001 11:45:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: by motherfish.xiph.org (Postfix, from userid 30)id AFCE718D0AB; Wed, 15 Aug 2001 11:45:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from noc.nyx.net (noc.nyx.net [206.124.29.3])by motherfish.xiph.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A823E18D0AAfor <vorbis@xiph.org>; Wed, 15 Aug 2001 11:45:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nyx10.nyx.net (agreenbu@nyx10.nyx.net [206.124.29.2])by noc.nyx.net (8.9.1a+3.1W/8.9.1/esr) with ESMTP id NAA19082for <vorbis@xiph.org>; Wed, 15 Aug 2001 13:51:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from agreenbu@localhost)by nyx10.nyx.net (8.8.8/8.8.8/esr) id NAA22309for vorbis@xiph.org; Wed, 15 Aug 2001 13:52:14 -0600 (MDT)>From owner-vorbis@xiph.org Wed, 15 Aug 2001 12:47:51 -0700Delivered-To: vorbis-outgoing@xiph.org Delivered-To: vorbis@xiph.org X-Nyx-Envelope-Data: Date=Wed Aug 15 13:52:14 2001, Sender=agreenbu, Recipient=vorbis@xiph.org, Valsender=agreenbu@localhost Message-ID: <20010815135213.A21642@nyx10.nyx.net> Mail-Followup-To: ndrw mchl grnbrg <agreenbu@nyx.net>, vorbis@xiph.org References: <LAW2-F72wMTIlgekO2B0000ac40@hotmail.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <LAW2-F72wMTIlgekO2B0000ac40@hotmail.com>; from sanspoof@hotmail.com on Wed, Aug 15, 2001 at 06:49:25PM +0000 Sender: owner-vorbis@xiph.org Precedence: bulk - Sanspoof <sanspoof@hotmail.com> wrote: : >Just a quick check...are you using RedHat RPMS ? : : No, using that GUI fishy tool on Windows 2000 to rip the files then playing : it back on Winamp. I pulled out my good headphone to make sure I was really : hearing it. (sorry about the 25KHz thing - meant to say 25 - 50 Hz. In : other words, just barely audible) 25-50Hz is pretty noticeable, I think (especially in the bass guitar/cello range), since it would shift an A-220 to a middle C. I had a tape player in my car for a while that used to play the tapes too fast, and this drove me nuts. Is the shifting proportionate (i.e. 220 * 1.1136 = 245) or fixed (i.e. 220 + 25 = 245)? A fixed 25Hz shift would be much more noticeable on the low notes than the high, and the resulting music would probably be much more dissonant than the original. -- agreenbu @ nyx . net andrew michael greenburg http://www.nyx.net/~agreenbu/ --- >8 ---- List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ Ogg project homepage: http://www.xiph.org/ogg/ To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'vorbis-request@xiph.org' containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp --- >8 ---- List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ Ogg project homepage: http://www.xiph.org/ogg/ To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'vorbis-request@xiph.org' containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered.
Thanks, I'll download this a try it. Maybe it'll make a difference. From: SyP <syp@mailbox.hu> Reply-To: vorbis@xiph.org To: Sanspoof <vorbis@xiph.org> Subject: Re[2]: [vorbis] Pitch shift with RC2 Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 22:47:13 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: from [207.181.249.22] by hotmail.com (3.2) with ESMTP id MHotMailBD442B4D00434004310ACFB5F9160B790; Wed, 15 Aug 2001 13:49:23 -0700 Received: by motherfish.xiph.org (Postfix)id AA70418D0B1; Wed, 15 Aug 2001 12:48:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: by motherfish.xiph.org (Postfix, from userid 30)id 966B018D0B0; Wed, 15 Aug 2001 12:48:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hapcibeno.freestart.hu (hapcibeno.freestart.hu [213.197.64.8])by motherfish.xiph.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8370D18D0AEfor <vorbis@xiph.org>; Wed, 15 Aug 2001 12:48:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from line-71-62.dial.freestart.hu ([213.197.71.62] helo=127.0.0.1)by freestart.hu with esmtp (Freestart relay 2 (FS-Lin))id 15X7eC-0001n0-00for <vorbis@xiph.org>; Wed, 15 Aug 2001 22:52:16 +0200>From owner-vorbis@xiph.org Wed, 15 Aug 2001 13:51:19 -0700Delivered-To: vorbis-outgoing@xiph.org Delivered-To: vorbis@xiph.org X-Mailer: The Bat! (v1.54 Beta/6) Educational Organization: E-mailaholics International X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <6155882484.20010815224713@mailbox.hu> In-Reply-To: <LAW2-F86iGwYt7yiGh00000aef3@hotmail.com> References: <LAW2-F86iGwYt7yiGh00000aef3@hotmail.com> X-Scanner: exiscan by Freestart Sender: owner-vorbis@xiph.org Precedence: bulk Hello Sanspoof, You wrote at 8/15/2001, 9:23 PM: -> I'm using the in-vorbis plug-in dated 2001-06-30 23:29:04.00. FYI you can get Peter's winamp plugin (updated to RC2, dated 14-Aug-2001 08:04) from http://www.blorp.com/~peter/zips/in_vorbis.exe -- Cheers, _____________________________ SyP (_Szabolcs Péter PGP Key ID: _____________________)ICQ# 69968772 0x098AEC13 Linux: This will end your Windows session. OK. --- >8 ---- List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ Ogg project homepage: http://www.xiph.org/ogg/ To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'vorbis-request@xiph.org' containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp --- >8 ---- List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ Ogg project homepage: http://www.xiph.org/ogg/ To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'vorbis-request@xiph.org' containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered.