theora - Sep 2009 - oggcat or other ways to combine theora videos (with or without re-encoding)?

hi guys,

first of all, i'd like to ask if there any crossplatform software/service  (
gui is also better, an online application like firefogg is great,  or at least a
command line tools for any platform) to combine theora videos, other than
oggcat...

i am doing some art projects that people should be able to remix featured theora
videos and i find oggcat very usefull in theory but not in practice... i always
get cat files that have some errors, so should the people i will encourage to
use oggcat...  also it is a little scaring to use command line tools for people
to whom i am going to ask & describe using to make their remixes

i know that sequencer is on the way but not ready... an oggcat feature for
firefogg would be so great but i don't think it is planned soon... i found
an online service called media-convert (www.media-convert.com) that can combine
multiple files (it also supports converting from an url but not combining) but
ti doesn't work stable for theora, does anybody know other online service
for theora, non of the ones i have found support theora....  a feature for
combining the input files to an theora ouput would have also been great...


as an example for oggcat error, i have two files created with ffmpeg2theora
using libtheora 1.1 20090822 (Thusnelda)

i'd like to cat these two files using oggcat (ogg video tools0.8-win2) on
windows...

as you can see from the ogginfo below, both files have the same properties as
they must be to get use of oggcat. (input files have .ogg extension instead of
.ogv because i used
g-frontend to encode multiple files at the same time and  g-frontend
creates .ogg extension even with the latest ffmpeg2theora... by the way
is there a way to batch convert many files to ogg theora... handbrake is
recommended in many articles, but it is also not usefull for me and couldn't
batch convert with it)

when i use oggcat, i got the following message:


Warning: found unknown stream, this stream will be ignored
StreamMux::operator<< no valid stream to put a packet with stream no:0
StreamMux::operator<< no valid stream to put a packet with stream no:0
StreamMux::operator<< no valid stream to put a packet with stream no:0
StreamMux::operator<< no valid stream to put a packet with stream no:0
StreamMux::operator<<: Warning: packet number for stream <2> not
matching: expec
ted: 410 got 3
StreamMux::operator<<: Warning: packet number for stream <1> not
matching: expec
ted: 201 got 3


i understand that ignored streams are skeletons... but oggzvalidate reports
following for the cat file, however there were no errors for the inputs files...


 Error:
serialno 0000014395: granulepos 6999 on page with no completed packets, must be
-1


i also get a similar "granulepos... with no completed packets" errors
when i cat more files together... when i cat 20 files sync also gets
slightly lost towards the end of the cat file... another issue is that i see
macro blocks at the cat file on some parts....

is the "granulepos... with no completed packets" error important or
where am i doing wrong? below you can see the ogginfo for input files and cat
file. thank you for your time


ogginfo for file1:
C:\Documents and Settings\buradan buyrun>"C:\Documents and
Settings\buradan buyr
un\Desktop\OGG_TOOLS\ogginfo.exe" "F:\09042200 complaints choir
oybd_PROJECT&WEB
SITE\___YENIBASLANGIC\cc_sample_(WEB)\Wishes we make never come true
v3.ogg"
Processing file "F:\09042200 complaints choir
oybd_PROJECT&WEBSITE\___YENIBASLAN
GIC\cc_sample_(WEB)\Wishes we make never come true v3.ogg"...

New logical stream (#1, serial: 0000427d): type skeleton
New logical stream (#2, serial: 00007fb4): type theora
New logical stream (#3, serial: 00002d44): type vorbis
Theora headers parsed for stream 2, information follows...
Version: 3.2.1
Vendor: Xiph.Org libtheora 1.1 20090822 (Thusnelda)
Width: 512
Height: 224
Total image: 512 by 224, crop offset (0, 0)
Framerate 25/1 (25,00 fps)
Pixel aspect ratio 1:1 (1,000000:1)
Frame aspect 2,285714:1
Colourspace unspecified
Pixel format 4:2:0
Target bitrate: 0 kbps
Nominal quality setting (0-63): 32
User comments section follows...
        ENCODER=ffmpeg2theora-0.24+svn16515
        SOURCE_OSHASH=b999d843aa5547c7
Vorbis headers parsed for stream 3, information follows...
Version: 0
Vendor: Xiph.Org libVorbis I 20090709
Channels: 2
Rate: 44100

Nominal bitrate: 80,000000 kb/s
Upper bitrate not set
Lower bitrate not set
User comments section follows...
        ENCODER=ffmpeg2theora-0.24+svn16515
        SOURCE_OSHASH=b999d843aa5547c7
Logical stream 1 ended
Theora stream 2:
        Total data length: 1393166 bytes
        Playback length: 0m:07.919s
        Average bitrate: 1407,238384 kb/s
Logical stream 2 ended
Vorbis stream 3:
        Total data length: 71633 bytes
        Playback length: 0m:07.941s
        Average bitrate: 72,163178 kb/s
Logical stream 3 ended




ogginfo for File2:
C:\Documents and Settings\buradan buyrun>"C:\Documents and
Settings\buradan buyr
un\Desktop\OGG_TOOLS\ogginfo.exe" "F:\09042200 complaints choir
oybd_PROJECT&WEB
SITE\___YENIBASLANGIC\cc_sample_(WEB)\Won't I ever go to space v2.ogg"
Processing file "F:\09042200 complaints choir
oybd_PROJECT&WEBSITE\___YENIBASLAN
GIC\cc_sample_(WEB)\Won't I ever go to space v2.ogg"...

New logical stream (#1, serial: 00004217): type skeleton
New logical stream (#2, serial: 00004d8c): type theora
New logical stream (#3, serial: 00002d68): type vorbis
Theora headers parsed for stream 2, information follows...
Version: 3.2.1
Vendor: Xiph.Org libtheora 1.1 20090822 (Thusnelda)
Width: 512
Height: 224
Total image: 512 by 224, crop offset (0, 0)
Framerate 25/1 (25,00 fps)
Pixel aspect ratio 1:1 (1,000000:1)
Frame aspect 2,285714:1
Colourspace unspecified
Pixel format 4:2:0
Target bitrate: 0 kbps
Nominal quality setting (0-63): 32
User comments section follows...
        ENCODER=ffmpeg2theora-0.24+svn16515
        SOURCE_OSHASH=5e269da40a18e118
Vorbis headers parsed for stream 3, information follows...
Version: 0
Vendor: Xiph.Org libVorbis I 20090709
Channels: 2
Rate: 44100

Nominal bitrate: 80,000000 kb/s
Upper bitrate not set
Lower bitrate not set
User comments section follows...
        ENCODER=ffmpeg2theora-0.24+svn16515
        SOURCE_OSHASH=5e269da40a18e118
Logical stream 1 ended
Theora stream 2:
        Total data length: 1402608 bytes
        Playback length: 0m:07.919s
        Average bitrate: 1416,775758 kb/s
Logical stream 2 ended
Vorbis stream 3:
        Total data length: 69820 bytes
        Playback length: 0m:07.941s
        Average bitrate: 70,336760 kb/s
Logical stream 3 ended


ogginfo for cat file
New logical stream (#1, serial: 0000383b): type theora
New logical stream (#2, serial: 000032c7): type vorbis
Theora headers parsed for stream 1, information follows...
Version: 3.2.1
Vendor: Xiph.Org libtheora 1.1 20090822 (Thusnelda)
Width: 512
Height: 224
Total image: 512 by 224, crop offset (0, 0)
Framerate 25/1 (25,00 fps)
Pixel aspect ratio 1:1 (1,000000:1)
Frame aspect 2,285714:1
Colourspace unspecified
Pixel format 4:2:0
Target bitrate: 0 kbps
Nominal quality setting (0-63): 32
User comments section follows...
        ENCODER=ffmpeg2theora-0.24+svn16515
        SOURCE_OSHASH=b999d843aa5547c7
Vorbis headers parsed for stream 2, information follows...
Version: 0
Vendor: Xiph.Org libVorbis I 20090709
Channels: 2
Rate: 44100

Nominal bitrate: 80,000000 kb/s
Upper bitrate not set
Lower bitrate not set
User comments section follows...
        ENCODER=ffmpeg2theora-0.24+svn16515
        SOURCE_OSHASH=b999d843aa5547c7
Theora stream 1:
        Total data length: 2795747 bytes
        Playback length: 0m:15.839s
        Average bitrate: 1411,993434 kb/s
Logical stream 1 ended
Vorbis stream 2:
        Total data length: 141399 bytes
        Playback length: 0m:15.908s
        Average bitrate: 71,105819 kb/s
Logical stream 2 ended





 .-_-.



      
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL:
http://lists.xiph.org/pipermail/theora/attachments/20090914/786e42be/attachment.htm

<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN">
<html>
<head>
  <meta content="text/html;charset=ISO-8859-1"
http-equiv="Content-Type">
  <title></title>
</head>
<body bgcolor="#ffffff" text="#000000">
Firefogg does include oggCat for concatenating together audio for a
rendered sequence. I think general video concatenation would be a good
feature to expose in the firefogg api too ;) That way a simple web app
could concatenate together videos ... of-course better than that is to
get the sequencer to a more mature state. (but I have been saturated
with other mediaWiki tasks :( ) <br>
<br>
At any rate (mostly for Jan) it would be nice if we had pass-through
mode for the render. So if its just an ogg without&nbsp; overlays or filters
we can just "oggCat" it to the output instead of using the browser
rendered pngs? <br>
<br>
I have also run into some oggCat bugs... is there a good place to
report those? <br>
<br>
--michael<br>
<br>
Orton AKINCI aka .-_-. wrote:
<blockquote cite="mid:214523.10135.qm@web51102.mail.re2.yahoo.com"
 type="cite">
  <pre wrap="">hi guys,

first of all, i'd like to ask if there any crossplatform software/service  (
gui is also better, an online application like firefogg is great,  or at least a
command line tools for any platform) to combine theora videos, other than
oggcat...

i am doing some art projects that people should be able to remix featured theora
videos and i find oggcat very usefull in theory but not in practice... i always
get cat files that have some errors, so should the people i will encourage to
use oggcat...  also it is a little scaring to use command line tools for people
to whom i am going to ask & describe using to make their remixes

i know that sequencer is on the way but not ready... an oggcat feature for
firefogg would be so great but i don't think it is planned soon... i found
an online service called media-convert (<a
class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="http://www.media-convert.com">www.media-convert.com</a>)
that can combine multiple files (it also supports converting from an url but not
combining) but ti doesn't work stable for theora, does anybody know other
online service for theora, non of the ones i have found support theora....  a
feature for combining the input files to an theora ouput would have also been
great...


as an example for oggcat error, i have two files created with ffmpeg2theora
using libtheora 1.1 20090822 (Thusnelda)

i'd like to cat these two files using oggcat (ogg video tools0.8-win2) on
windows...

as you can see from the ogginfo below, both files have the same properties as
they must be to get use of oggcat. (input files have .ogg extension instead of
.ogv because i used
g-frontend to encode multiple files at the same time and  g-frontend
creates .ogg extension even with the latest ffmpeg2theora... by the way
is there a way to batch convert many files to ogg theora... handbrake is
recommended in many articles, but it is also not usefull for me and couldn't
batch convert with it)

when i use oggcat, i got the following message:


Warning: found unknown stream, this stream will be ignored
StreamMux::operator<< no valid stream to put a packet with stream no:0
StreamMux::operator<< no valid stream to put a packet with stream no:0
StreamMux::operator<< no valid stream to put a packet with stream no:0
StreamMux::operator<< no valid stream to put a packet with stream no:0
StreamMux::operator<<: Warning: packet number for stream <2> not
matching: expec
ted: 410 got 3
StreamMux::operator<<: Warning: packet number for stream <1> not
matching: expec
ted: 201 got 3


i understand that ignored streams are skeletons... but oggzvalidate reports
following for the cat file, however there were no errors for the inputs files...


 Error:
serialno 0000014395: granulepos 6999 on page with no completed packets, must be
-1


i also get a similar "granulepos... with no completed packets" errors
when i cat more files together... when i cat 20 files sync also gets
slightly lost towards the end of the cat file... another issue is that i see
macro blocks at the cat file on some parts....

is the "granulepos... with no completed packets" error important or
where am i doing wrong? below you can see the ogginfo for input files and cat
file. thank you for your time


ogginfo for file1:
C:\Documents and Settings\buradan buyrun>"C:\Documents and
Settings\buradan buyr
un\Desktop\OGG_TOOLS\ogginfo.exe" "F:\09042200 complaints choir
oybd_PROJECT&WEB
SITE\___YENIBASLANGIC\cc_sample_(WEB)\Wishes we make never come true
v3.ogg"
Processing file "F:\09042200 complaints choir
oybd_PROJECT&WEBSITE\___YENIBASLAN
GIC\cc_sample_(WEB)\Wishes we make never come true v3.ogg"...

New logical stream (#1, serial: 0000427d): type skeleton
New logical stream (#2, serial: 00007fb4): type theora
New logical stream (#3, serial: 00002d44): type vorbis
Theora headers parsed for stream 2, information follows...
Version: 3.2.1
Vendor: Xiph.Org libtheora 1.1 20090822 (Thusnelda)
Width: 512
Height: 224
Total image: 512 by 224, crop offset (0, 0)
Framerate 25/1 (25,00 fps)
Pixel aspect ratio 1:1 (1,000000:1)
Frame aspect 2,285714:1
Colourspace unspecified
Pixel format 4:2:0
Target bitrate: 0 kbps
Nominal quality setting (0-63): 32
User comments section follows...
        ENCODER=ffmpeg2theora-0.24+svn16515
        SOURCE_OSHASH=b999d843aa5547c7
Vorbis headers parsed for stream 3, information follows...
Version: 0
Vendor: Xiph.Org libVorbis I 20090709
Channels: 2
Rate: 44100

Nominal bitrate: 80,000000 kb/s
Upper bitrate not set
Lower bitrate not set
User comments section follows...
        ENCODER=ffmpeg2theora-0.24+svn16515
        SOURCE_OSHASH=b999d843aa5547c7
Logical stream 1 ended
Theora stream 2:
        Total data length: 1393166 bytes
        Playback length: 0m:07.919s
        Average bitrate: 1407,238384 kb/s
Logical stream 2 ended
Vorbis stream 3:
        Total data length: 71633 bytes
        Playback length: 0m:07.941s
        Average bitrate: 72,163178 kb/s
Logical stream 3 ended




ogginfo for File2:
C:\Documents and Settings\buradan buyrun>"C:\Documents and
Settings\buradan buyr
un\Desktop\OGG_TOOLS\ogginfo.exe" "F:\09042200 complaints choir
oybd_PROJECT&WEB
SITE\___YENIBASLANGIC\cc_sample_(WEB)\Won't I ever go to space v2.ogg"
Processing file "F:\09042200 complaints choir
oybd_PROJECT&WEBSITE\___YENIBASLAN
GIC\cc_sample_(WEB)\Won't I ever go to space v2.ogg"...

New logical stream (#1, serial: 00004217): type skeleton
New logical stream (#2, serial: 00004d8c): type theora
New logical stream (#3, serial: 00002d68): type vorbis
Theora headers parsed for stream 2, information follows...
Version: 3.2.1
Vendor: Xiph.Org libtheora 1.1 20090822 (Thusnelda)
Width: 512
Height: 224
Total image: 512 by 224, crop offset (0, 0)
Framerate 25/1 (25,00 fps)
Pixel aspect ratio 1:1 (1,000000:1)
Frame aspect 2,285714:1
Colourspace unspecified
Pixel format 4:2:0
Target bitrate: 0 kbps
Nominal quality setting (0-63): 32
User comments section follows...
        ENCODER=ffmpeg2theora-0.24+svn16515
        SOURCE_OSHASH=5e269da40a18e118
Vorbis headers parsed for stream 3, information follows...
Version: 0
Vendor: Xiph.Org libVorbis I 20090709
Channels: 2
Rate: 44100

Nominal bitrate: 80,000000 kb/s
Upper bitrate not set
Lower bitrate not set
User comments section follows...
        ENCODER=ffmpeg2theora-0.24+svn16515
        SOURCE_OSHASH=5e269da40a18e118
Logical stream 1 ended
Theora stream 2:
        Total data length: 1402608 bytes
        Playback length: 0m:07.919s
        Average bitrate: 1416,775758 kb/s
Logical stream 2 ended
Vorbis stream 3:
        Total data length: 69820 bytes
        Playback length: 0m:07.941s
        Average bitrate: 70,336760 kb/s
Logical stream 3 ended


ogginfo for cat file
New logical stream (#1, serial: 0000383b): type theora
New logical stream (#2, serial: 000032c7): type vorbis
Theora headers parsed for stream 1, information follows...
Version: 3.2.1
Vendor: Xiph.Org libtheora 1.1 20090822 (Thusnelda)
Width: 512
Height: 224
Total image: 512 by 224, crop offset (0, 0)
Framerate 25/1 (25,00 fps)
Pixel aspect ratio 1:1 (1,000000:1)
Frame aspect 2,285714:1
Colourspace unspecified
Pixel format 4:2:0
Target bitrate: 0 kbps
Nominal quality setting (0-63): 32
User comments section follows...
        ENCODER=ffmpeg2theora-0.24+svn16515
        SOURCE_OSHASH=b999d843aa5547c7
Vorbis headers parsed for stream 2, information follows...
Version: 0
Vendor: Xiph.Org libVorbis I 20090709
Channels: 2
Rate: 44100

Nominal bitrate: 80,000000 kb/s
Upper bitrate not set
Lower bitrate not set
User comments section follows...
        ENCODER=ffmpeg2theora-0.24+svn16515
        SOURCE_OSHASH=b999d843aa5547c7
Theora stream 1:
        Total data length: 2795747 bytes
        Playback length: 0m:15.839s
        Average bitrate: 1411,993434 kb/s
Logical stream 1 ended
Vorbis stream 2:
        Total data length: 141399 bytes
        Playback length: 0m:15.908s
        Average bitrate: 71,105819 kb/s
Logical stream 2 ended





 .-_-.



      
  </pre>
  <pre wrap="">
<hr size="4" width="90%">
_______________________________________________
theora mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:theora@xiph.org">theora@xiph.org</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="http://lists.xiph.org/mailman/listinfo/theora">http://lists.xiph.org/mailman/listinfo/theora</a>
  </pre>
</blockquote>
<br>
</body>
</html>

hi yorn, i have reported the issue (not a bug possibly) i have e-mailed to this
list about "packet number for stream <2> not matching:"  to the
support request of sourceforge bug tracker...



my question for now, is there a safe conversion method to theora, so that i can
use these theora files to cat safely with oggcat? i never use oggz-chop.  i am
using the latest builds of ffmpeg2theora on windows... or is it about the input
files to be converted to theora? if so what is the safe input file format to
convert to theora(if there is any or that is the case:)).

as i know, a part of the problem is about vorbis, that cannot be cut at a
desired precise point... is there a way to cut the video(video) according to
where vorbis(audio) let to be cut, so that there should be no sync problems,
'cos theora can be cut any precise point? no?



considering michael' comments about firefogg, a simple web app to
concatenate would really be great (even more ogg video tools features would be
better). sequencer will be also great because native theora editing is not handy
even for linux...

another issue for firefogg is that you cannot transcode an ogg file (to
different size, bitrate/quality), you get the message "Your selected file
is already Ogg or not a video file".

also i couldn't manage to understand which settings overrides which settings
in firefogg and how to re-activate the previosu settings once one is set... for
example when i set the bitrate mode(advanced video encoding controls) first and
then change my mind to use quality mode, i cannot de-activate the setting i made
in bitrate mode ( i got very confused with this after checking the bitrate of
the final file with ogginfo)...

also i think, even if i chose the quality mode, i need to open the
"advanced video encoding controls" pop-up just to change the
framerate, but this would override quality mode settings to bitrate setting? no?
i might be wrong about this but i couldn't manage to understand which
settings do effect and override which one and how to change to the previous
setting...(i may have not written this part so clear , but someone who uses
firefogg frequently with different settings would understand, i guess:))

sorry if this list is not appropriate for comments for firefogg and ogg video
tools...


.-_-.
From: "yorn at gmx.net" <yorn at gmx.net>
To: ortonak at yahoo.com; mdale at wikimedia.org
Cc: theora at xiph.org
Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 1:41:20 PM
Subject: Re: [theora] oggcat or other ways to combine theora videos (with or
without re-encoding)?

...tonight I updated the sourceforge bug tracker for the ogg video tools, so you
can use that as well at

http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=235863

to report any bugs. I have not used it up until now, but it looks quite nice. 

- Yorn

From: Michael Dale <mdale at wikimedia.org>
To: Orton AKINCI aka .-_-. <ortonak at yahoo.com>
Cc: theora at xiph.org
Sent: Monday, September 14, 2009 9:34:13 PM
Subject: Re: [theora] oggcat or other ways to combine theora videos (with or
without re-encoding)?


 ...I think general video concatenation would be a good
feature to expose in the firefogg api too ;) That way a simple web app
could concatenate together videos ... 

..At any rate (mostly for Jan) it would be nice if we had pass-through
mode for the render. So if its just an ogg without  overlays or filters
we can just "oggCat" it to the output instead of using the browser
rendered pngs? ...

--michael


      
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL:
http://lists.xiph.org/pipermail/theora/attachments/20090915/a3a54edb/attachment.htm

Gregory,
> It's not clear to me what you're referring to by "packet
number".
I mean the ogg packet number, that is defined within the ogg packet structure
(ogg.h - http://www.xiph.org/ogg/doc/libogg/ogg_packet.html ):

typedef struct {
  unsigned char *packet;
  long  bytes;
  long  b_o_s;
  long  e_o_s;

  ogg_int64_t  granulepos;
  
  ogg_int64_t  packetno;     /* sequence number for decode; the framing
                                knows where there's a hole in the data,
                                but we need coupling so that the codec
                                (which is in a seperate abstraction
                                layer) also knows about the gap */
} ogg_packet;

These packets are returned by theora and vorbis encoders:

http://www.theora.org/doc/libtheora-1.0/group__encfuncs.html#g96d8ac1dda53187455352f99bbb5b04b
> Ogg has two relevant framing constructs, the page and the packet. Ogg
> packets are not explicit numbered.
Aren't they? What's that packetno-field stands for?

BTW: The _page_ numbers are correct, as far as I tested that, but this is done
by libogg not by the encoder.
> If you're referring to the granule position, thats a page level
> construct and the Vorbis specification states: "The granule position
> of these first pages containing only headers is zero.".
This is correct as well with all encoders I tests.

-Yorn