Syslinux - Jan 2014 - Dell machine boots a Windows formatted FAT16 USB drive not a Ubuntu formatted FAT16 drive.

Hi All,
First post and hopefully someone can steer me in 
the right direction for this problem. I did a bit 
of googling and found some hints but nothing concrete.

We are using Syslinux and a FAT32 USB thumb drive 
(single partition) to boot a customized Debian OS 
which works very well with newer motherboards. 
However we have a few older Dell machines that 
simply hangs when trying to boot using the same 
drive. Someone suggested that we try FAT16 
filesystem which I created using Ubuntu disk 
utility and as well as mkdosfs command line 
utility. I reduced the partition size to 1 GB for 
FAT16. Neither worked. However a colleague created 
a FAT16 drive on a Windows machine and that booted 
just fine on the Dell.

So my question is there some specific drive 
parameters I should be selecting when creating a 
FAT16 USB thumb drive that is acceptable to the 
old Dell machines?

Any help is always appreciated.

Mark

On Sat, Jan 4, 2014 at 6:59 AM, Mark Barton <mbarton451 at gmail.com>
wrote:
> Hi All,
> First post and hopefully someone can steer me in the right direction for
> this problem. I did a bit of googling and found some hints but nothing
> concrete.
>
> We are using Syslinux and a FAT32 USB thumb drive (single partition) to
boot
> a customized Debian OS which works very well with newer motherboards.
> However we have a few older Dell machines that simply hangs when trying to
> boot using the same drive. Someone suggested that we try FAT16 filesystem
> which I created using Ubuntu disk utility and as well as mkdosfs command
> line utility. I reduced the partition size to 1 GB for FAT16. Neither
> worked. However a colleague created a FAT16 drive on a Windows machine and
> that booted just fine on the Dell.
>
> So my question is there some specific drive parameters I should be
selecting
> when creating a FAT16 USB thumb drive that is acceptable to the old Dell
> machines?
What particular model(s) and BIOS revs?  Most of the time, newer revs help.

My experience has been there's no hard and fast rule for geometry
except don't force any geometry and stick with standard partition
bounds (end at cylinder boundary; start at cylinder or cylinder + 1
head).

If starting with a blank drive on Linux, force fdisk into
compatibility mode and let it auto-select the sectors per head and
heads per cylinder then let it follow the standard cylinder alignment.
 I'd also recommend a USB drive of 4GiB or less when seeking
compatibility.

-- 
-Gene

> Hi All,
> First post and hopefully someone can steer me in 
> the right direction for this problem. I did a bit 
> of googling and found some hints but nothing concrete.
> 
> We are using Syslinux and a FAT32 USB thumb drive 
> (single partition) to boot a customized Debian OS 
> which works very well with newer motherboards. 
> However we have a few older Dell machines that 
> simply hangs when trying to boot using the same 
> drive. Someone suggested that we try FAT16 
> filesystem which I created using Ubuntu disk 
> utility and as well as mkdosfs command line 
> utility. I reduced the partition size to 1 GB for 
> FAT16. Neither worked. However a colleague created 
> a FAT16 drive on a Windows machine and that booted 
> just fine on the Dell.
> 
> So my question is there some specific drive 
> parameters I should be selecting when creating a 
> FAT16 USB thumb drive that is acceptable to the 
> old Dell machines?
> 
> Any help is always appreciated.
> 
> Mark
> 
 
I don't know the answer, but here are some points.

_ You mention at least 2 different USB drives, each formatted under 2 
different OS. What happens when you reverse them, e.g. taking the USB 
drive that was previously formatted under Windows and now formatting 
it under Linux?

_ Are both USB drives of the same brand? Are both of approximately 
the same device size? Are the partitions the same size?

_ Are you using the latest BIOS version available?

_ Are there any updates available for your mkdosfs (even upstream)? 
Have you tested both, dosfstools and mtools (mformat)?

_ Are both USB drives seen by the BIOS in the same exact way? Are 
both seen as USB-HDD? Or both as HDD? Or...

_ Are both USB drives using the same exact Syslinux version?

_ How are you installing / writing Syslinux on the USB drive? Are 
both drives using the same procedure?

_ Are both USB drives using the same CHS values? Is the BIOS 
recognizing the same CHS values for both drives? Is the partition 
table using the same CHS values? Is the partition boot sector using 
the same CHS values?

_ Are you using the same MBR boot code for both USB drives?

_ Which partition ID is used in each partition table? Are both the 
same?

_ Are both respective booting partitions set as "bootable / active"?

_ Are both USB drives using the same partition alignments (both at 
start and end of each partition)?

_ Using minfo (mtools) or equivalent, are all the fs values the same?

_ Are you able to replicate this same situation in other (non-Dell?) 
systems / BIOS?


There are additional points of comparison, but those would probably 
be the first ones to check.

HTH,
Ady.

Op 2014-01-04 om 20:34 schreef Ady:
> 
> > Hi All,
> > First post and hopefully someone can steer me in 
> > the right direction for this problem. I did a bit 
> > of googling and found some hints but nothing concrete.
> > 
> > We are using Syslinux and a FAT32 USB thumb drive 
> > (single partition) to boot a customized Debian OS 
> > which works very well with newer motherboards. 
> > However we have a few older Dell machines that 
> > simply hangs when trying to boot using the same 
> > drive. Someone suggested that we try FAT16 
> > filesystem which I created using Ubuntu disk 
> > utility and as well as mkdosfs command line 
> > utility. I reduced the partition size to 1 GB for 
> > FAT16. Neither worked. However a colleague created 
> > a FAT16 drive on a Windows machine and that booted 
> > just fine on the Dell.
> > 
> > So my question is there some specific drive 
> > parameters I should be selecting when creating a 
> > FAT16 USB thumb drive that is acceptable to the 
> > old Dell machines?
> > 
> > Any help is always appreciated.
> > 
> > Mark
> > 
>  
> I don't know the answer, but here are some points.
> 
> _ You mention at least 2 different USB drives, each formatted under 2 
> different OS. What happens when you reverse them, e.g. taking the USB 
> drive that was previously formatted under Windows and now formatting 
> it under Linux?
> 
> _ Are both USB drives of the same brand? Are both of approximately 
> the same device size? Are the partitions the same size?
> 
> _ Are you using the latest BIOS version available?
> 
> _ Are there any updates available for your mkdosfs (even upstream)? 
> Have you tested both, dosfstools and mtools (mformat)?
> 
> _ Are both USB drives seen by the BIOS in the same exact way? Are 
> both seen as USB-HDD? Or both as HDD? Or...
> 
> _ Are both USB drives using the same exact Syslinux version?
> 
> _ How are you installing / writing Syslinux on the USB drive? Are 
> both drives using the same procedure?
> 
> _ Are both USB drives using the same CHS values? Is the BIOS 
> recognizing the same CHS values for both drives? Is the partition 
> table using the same CHS values? Is the partition boot sector using 
> the same CHS values?
> 
> _ Are you using the same MBR boot code for both USB drives?
> 
> _ Which partition ID is used in each partition table? Are both the 
> same?
> 
> _ Are both respective booting partitions set as "bootable /
active"?
> 
> _ Are both USB drives using the same partition alignments (both at 
> start and end of each partition)?
> 
> _ Using minfo (mtools) or equivalent, are all the fs values the same?
> 
> _ Are you able to replicate this same situation in other (non-Dell?) 
> systems / BIOS?
> 
> 
> There are additional points of comparison, but those would probably 
> be the first ones to check.
FWIW: My first check would be  `fdisk -l` on both USB-storage devices.
And would special look for boot-flags on the partitions.


Groeten
Geert Stappers
-- 
Leven en laten leven