Syslinux - Oct 2006 - Loading syslinux from a USB HDD

Thanks Nazo, for that amazing long answer.

The problem is, though, that you're talking to an _XP user_, so I 
can't:  "Just use dd with
if=/dev/sda"  because that's Dutch to me.  I even had trouble 
understanding what a "distro" was, till I looked it up.  And I
can't run
"mkdiskimage", because it doesn't run under XP.  Also, according
to
Josh's post at http://www.knoppix.net/wiki/Bootable_USB_Key mkdiskimage 
can't format over 1GB (if I understood correctly).

OK, you both say it's basically easy, and I believe it is... for Linux 
users.  The problem is that I don't speak Linux.  Us PC'ers are spoiled 
by installers!  We just want to plug it in, click an exe, answer a 
couple of questions and go get another cup of coffee... leastways that's 
how I am.

I tried the virtual machine (Puppy-Linux) and it's slow as treacle... 
and that's a fast implementation and a compact kernel.  I can't see 
anything 'Windows' being any quicker.  Do you agree?  So the VM is out.
That leaves:  Portable applications, which is OK, I suppose, but you 
still don't have your desktop and tools (which is like being served 
dinner without the cutlery).  So I need a 'native' operating system that
I can freely install (for other people too).  If I've got to learn new 
stuff, wouldn't I be better off to go with that Mac-on-stick thing, 
which is all GUI driven, like Windows (isn't it?)?

If I do go with Linux, it has to be 2GB-capable and bootable, and give 
as much access to free software as possible.  (That might be a problem 
with Puppy-Linux, might it not?  It comes with an amazing range of free 
apps - but the ability to use Firefox for a browser is almost a 
prerequisite for me.) 

I realize this question is tending a bit out of the syslinux area, but 
it is still related so I hope, OK

A few wise words would be a tremendous help, and thanks again Nazo and Josh.

Paul

P.J. Dickson wrote:
> Thanks Nazo, for that amazing long answer.
> 
> The problem is, though, that you're talking to an _XP user_, so I 
> can't:  "Just use dd with
> if=/dev/sda"  because that's Dutch to me.  I even had trouble 
> understanding what a "distro" was, till I looked it up.  And I
can't run
> "mkdiskimage", because it doesn't run under XP.  Also,
according to
> Josh's post at http://www.knoppix.net/wiki/Bootable_USB_Key mkdiskimage
> can't format over 1GB (if I understood correctly).
It's a limitation of the USB-ZIP "standard".  The disk geometry
sizes
are forced, to 32 sectors and 64 heads.  At 512 bytes per sector, that 
gives a total of 1MB per cylinder.  With the 1024 cylinder limit of 
traditional cylinder/head/sector (CHS) booting, that's 1GB.

There's only 2 solutions:

1) Format your USB key with a different size.

If you are forced to use traditional CHS booting, you can go up to 8GB. 
  The maximum is 1024 cylinders, 63 sectors, and 255 heads, which 
multiplies out to just a hair under 8GB.  (There's long stories about 
why it's 63 sectors and not 64, and also 255 heads and not 256, but I 
digress.)

This breaks the USB-ZIP "standard", though.  You're probably
better off
just using USB-HDD.

2) Use more than one partition.

Have a 1GB partition for booting, and another partition for your data.

Unfortunately, the USB-ZIP "standard" requires that the booting 
partition be the fourth partition.  Your data partition will have to 
appear earlier in the partition table, as one of the first three partitions.

However, the booting partition must appear at the beginning of the disk! 
  So, you will end up having a partition that is earlier in the table, 
but later on the disk.  You will have a partition table that is rather 
out of sequence.

Some fdisk-like partitioning programs might not like this, but I know of 
no other way.

I'd probably just end up blowing off any hope of USB-ZIP compatibility, 
and format the USB key with LBA partitions, where CHS sizes are not as 
relevant.  It wouldn't work on as many BIOS's, but of those that it can 
successfully work on, it would certainly be easier to use.
> OK, you both say it's basically easy, and I believe it is... for Linux 
> users.  The problem is that I don't speak Linux.  Us PC'ers are
spoiled
> by installers!  We just want to plug it in, click an exe, answer a 
> couple of questions and go get another cup of coffee... leastways
that's
> how I am.
Here's the recommended program for Windows users:

http://h18000.www1.hp.com/support/files/serveroptions/us/locate/69_6073.html

It's branded by HP, but it works on any standard USB key, regardless of 
vendor.

"Click an exe and answer a couple of questions" = If it works, you
will
successfully get the equivalent of a very large Windows bootable floppy. 
  The HP program automatically takes care of partitioning, formatting, 
and copying over certain Windows system files.

It's good enough to get a command prompt.  Unfortunately, running a full 
Windows installation, with graphics, is something that is very hard to 
do, without doing a full install.  Might want to look at BartPE.

http://www.nu2.nu/pebuilder/

Unfortunately, BartPE only works for a bootable CD/DVD.  Getting BartPE 
running on a bootable USB key would be a worthy project indeed!

Josh

An amazing, detailed and complete reply from Josh!  I'm knocked over by 
the trouble you guys take to answer these questions. 

Will post again with my results when I get it sorted... 'bout a week.

Thanks again, Josh.  An impressive forum (if that's the right term)!

Paul