Speex dev - Feb 2006 - How to use Speex Cross-Browser, Cross-Platform on Web Pages

On Tue, Feb 21, 2006 at 09:21:32AM +1100, Jean-Marc Valin
wrote:
> Have you thought of using jspeex (http://jspeex.sourceforge.net/)? The
> other way I can think of is to do the same as the Annodex Firefox plugin
> (http://www.annodex.net) and use VLC. Conrad Parker might have some more
> info on how to do that. Conrad?
Hi,

AFE currently has a bug where it can't handle audio-only files.
Hopefully we'll fix that soon.

Nevertheless, something like jspeex sounds better for this at the
moment. Cooler would be a way of doing timed images + speex in ogg ...

Conrad.
> 	Jean-Marc
> 
> Le lundi 20 f?vrier 2006 ? 14:50 -0500, Alex S. Brown a ?crit :
> > My apologies if this request is a little outside the scope of the
normal track
> > of this discussion group. My question is more about the use of speex
as a web
> > developer than about the internals of the codec. I searched all over
the web
> > for this information, though, and am trying here as a last resort.
> > 
> > I am trying to develop a way to offer slide shows with a voice-over. I
would
> > like to offer speex as a low-bandwidth option in addition to MP3 and
possibly
> > WAV formats. I am struggling to figure out how to support the
"audio/x-speex"
> > mime type across browsers effectively.
> > 
> > Ironically, the one where I have had best success is with Windows
Media Player.
> > Once the DirectShow filters are installed on a PC, I use the
<object> tag to
> > invoke Windows Media Player, and it happily plays the speex file.
(Ironic that
> > this is the least-standard-compliant, least-open-source combination of
web
> > browser and OS, and the only one where I can get speex working!)
> > 
> > I would like to be able to bring up a player with the correct, HTML
4.01
> > approach, that should support any browser that recognizes the MIME
type and the
> > correct use of the object tag. The tag looks like this:
> > 
> > <object type="audio/x-speex"
data="myaudio.spx">
> > If your browser does not support a player object, <a
href="myaudio.spx">download
> > the speech</a> and play it separately.
> > </object>
> > 
> > (The main object tag gives the mime type and file location. The text
between it
> > and the close is an alternate rendering, for browsers that cannot
display the
> > object tag.)
> > 
> > My problem is that I am not sure which speex players will properly
register the
> > MIME type with the web browser and operating system, so that a
".spx" file will
> > play and so that the "audio/x-speex" MIME type creates a
player object.
> > 
> > I have tried using Firefox under MS Windows, and Firefox does not even
recognize
> > the MIME type at all, even after installing DirectShow filters. It
does not
> > even know what to offer to download.
> > 
> > I am happy to give separate tech support instructions for different
browsers and
> > operating systems, because my hope is that people will keep coming
back to my
> > site for educational information. I may offer WAV or MP3 formats for
more
> > casual users, or perhaps just short "teasers" to get them to
download the
> > decoders for the more efficient speex format.
> > 
> > My hope is by getting an answer to this question, I can help promote
the use of
> > speex on the web. I certainly plan to send any solutions to the
Firefox team,
> > so that they recognize and offer to download players for the speex
MIME type in
> > the future.
> > 
> > ----------------------
> > Alex S. Brown, PMP
> > alexsbrown@alexsbrown.com
> > http://www.alexsbrown.com/
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speex-dev mailing list
> > Speex-dev@xiph.org
> > http://lists.xiph.org/mailman/listinfo/speex-dev
> > 
> _______________________________________________
> Speex-dev mailing list
> Speex-dev@xiph.org
> http://lists.xiph.org/mailman/listinfo/speex-dev

Thanks for the two suggestions. I tried VLC, and that did help with Firefox
support. Unfortunately, VLC registers itself as a player only for the
"application/ogg" type, not for "audio/x-speex". If I change
my object code to
request an application/ogg MIME type, it plays. I wish that it also showed
player controls like QuickTime and other players do, but I am not complaining!
VLC is Javascript capable, so I can drive the audio from the web page. Let me
know if there are any potential problems with using application/ogg as the MIME
type, since it may be better recognized.

I downloaded the jspeex package. I am not so familiar with Java, so it will take
a bit longer for me to figure out how to work this in.

I looked at the ogg multimedia container, and I do think that images+audio could
work well. Most other multimedia formats (besides flash) are very inefficient
about the images, treating them as video even if they rarely change. I am
trying to stay with HTML-based methods, so I can use hyperlinks and other
techniques. The W3C Slidy approach also allows you to fall back gracefully for
users who do not have a fancy browser with full plug-in support. Player support
is so uneven in this area that it becomes very hard to support most users most
of the time. Microsoft has its HTML+time that would be OK, SMIL (synchronized
multimedia) would be great, and OGG could also do the trick. My main trouble is
trying to stitch something together that I can maintain easily and that most
users need few plug-ins for!

Thanks for the quick replies. Hopefully my experiments will help other speex
users.

--Alex

Quoting Conrad Parker <conrad@metadecks.org>:
> On Tue, Feb 21, 2006 at 09:21:32AM +1100, Jean-Marc Valin wrote:
> > Have you thought of using jspeex (http://jspeex.sourceforge.net/)? The
> > other way I can think of is to do the same as the Annodex Firefox
plugin
> > (http://www.annodex.net) and use VLC. Conrad Parker might have some
more
> > info on how to do that. Conrad?
> 
> Hi,
> 
> AFE currently has a bug where it can't handle audio-only files.
> Hopefully we'll fix that soon.
> 
> Nevertheless, something like jspeex sounds better for this at the
> moment. Cooler would be a way of doing timed images + speex in ogg ...
> 
> Conrad.
> 
> > 	Jean-Marc
> > 
> > Le lundi 20 f?vrier 2006 ? 14:50 -0500, Alex S. Brown a ?crit :
> > > My apologies if this request is a little outside the scope of the
normal
> track
> > > of this discussion group. My question is more about the use of
speex as a
> web
> > > developer than about the internals of the codec. I searched all
over the
> web
> > > for this information, though, and am trying here as a last
resort.
> > > 
> > > I am trying to develop a way to offer slide shows with a
voice-over. I
> would
> > > like to offer speex as a low-bandwidth option in addition to MP3
and
> possibly
> > > WAV formats. I am struggling to figure out how to support the
> "audio/x-speex"
> > > mime type across browsers effectively.
> > > 
> > > Ironically, the one where I have had best success is with Windows
Media
> Player.
> > > Once the DirectShow filters are installed on a PC, I use the
<object> tag
> to
> > > invoke Windows Media Player, and it happily plays the speex file.
(Ironic
> that
> > > this is the least-standard-compliant, least-open-source
combination of
> web
> > > browser and OS, and the only one where I can get speex working!)
> > > 
> > > I would like to be able to bring up a player with the correct,
HTML 4.01
> > > approach, that should support any browser that recognizes the
MIME type
> and the
> > > correct use of the object tag. The tag looks like this:
> > > 
> > > <object type="audio/x-speex"
data="myaudio.spx">
> > > If your browser does not support a player object, <a
> href="myaudio.spx">download
> > > the speech</a> and play it separately.
> > > </object>
> > > 
> > > (The main object tag gives the mime type and file location. The
text
> between it
> > > and the close is an alternate rendering, for browsers that cannot
display
> the
> > > object tag.)
> > > 
> > > My problem is that I am not sure which speex players will
properly
> register the
> > > MIME type with the web browser and operating system, so that a
".spx"
> file will
> > > play and so that the "audio/x-speex" MIME type creates
a player object.
> > > 
> > > I have tried using Firefox under MS Windows, and Firefox does not
even
> recognize
> > > the MIME type at all, even after installing DirectShow filters.
It does
> not
> > > even know what to offer to download.
> > > 
> > > I am happy to give separate tech support instructions for
different
> browsers and
> > > operating systems, because my hope is that people will keep
coming back
> to my
> > > site for educational information. I may offer WAV or MP3 formats
for
> more
> > > casual users, or perhaps just short "teasers" to get
them to download
> the
> > > decoders for the more efficient speex format.
> > > 
> > > My hope is by getting an answer to this question, I can help
promote the
> use of
> > > speex on the web. I certainly plan to send any solutions to the
Firefox
> team,
> > > so that they recognize and offer to download players for the
speex MIME
> type in
> > > the future.

----------------------
Alex S. Brown, PMP
alexsbrown@alexsbrown.com
http://www.alexsbrown.com/

I spent some more time with the Ogg and Speex format specs, and I realized that
using the "application/ogg" MIME type is technically sound, since
Speex is
contained in an Ogg wrapper. To get full browser support, though, it is best to
rename it so its file extension is "ogg". Some browsers do not support
files
where the MIME type and file extension are different, based on security
concerns.

I also posted a request to the VLC forum to have their browser plug-in and
player support the "audio/x-speex" MIME type and the "spx"
file extension. I am
hoping they can do that quickly, since they can already play the format
properly. If anyone wants to see the request, it is at:
http://forum.videolan.org/viewtopic.php?p=54393#54393

I also looked into jspeex, and I think the best solution for me is a Java-based
player that uses jspeex codecs. It is jlGui, and it comes in standalone and
applet versions. It runs under any Java 1.3 or higher environment, so it is a
great cross-platform solution for any users who cannot download a native player
or plug-in for their browser. Here is a link to the player and applet:
http://www.javazoom.net/jlgui/jlgui.html
http://www.javazoom.net/applets/jlguiapplet/jlguiapplet.html

The applet supports Javascript automation, which is one of my requirements. Both
will play Ogg, Speex, and a wide variety of other formats.

I hope this helps. If anyone knows of other Ogg-capable browser plug-ins that
have not registered their support for the "audio/x-speex" MIME type,
let me
know. I am happy to log more feature requests! In the meantime, for other web
developers, using the "application/ogg" MIME type and renaming files
to an
"ogg" extension seems like a reasonable approach. Once more plug-ins
recognize
the Speex MIME type, we can start using it instead.

--Alex

Quoting "Alex S. Brown" <alexsbrown@alexsbrown.com>:
> Thanks for the two suggestions. I tried VLC, and that did help with Firefox
> support. Unfortunately, VLC registers itself as a player only for the
> "application/ogg" type, not for "audio/x-speex". If I
change my object code
> to
> request an application/ogg MIME type, it plays. I wish that it also showed
> player controls like QuickTime and other players do, but I am not
> complaining!
> VLC is Javascript capable, so I can drive the audio from the web page. Let
> me
> know if there are any potential problems with using application/ogg as the
> MIME
> type, since it may be better recognized.
> 
> Quoting Conrad Parker <conrad@metadecks.org>:
> 
> > On Tue, Feb 21, 2006 at 09:21:32AM +1100, Jean-Marc Valin wrote:
> > > Have you thought of using jspeex
(http://jspeex.sourceforge.net/)? The
> > > other way I can think of is to do the same as the Annodex Firefox
plugin
> > > (http://www.annodex.net) and use VLC. Conrad Parker might have
some more
> > > info on how to do that. Conrad?
> > 
> > Hi,
> > 
> > AFE currently has a bug where it can't handle audio-only files.
> > Hopefully we'll fix that soon.
> > 
> > Nevertheless, something like jspeex sounds better for this at the
> > moment. Cooler would be a way of doing timed images + speex in ogg ...
> > 
> > Conrad.
> > 
> > > 	Jean-Marc
> > > 
> > > Le lundi 20 f?vrier 2006 ? 14:50 -0500, Alex S. Brown a ?crit :
> > > > My apologies if this request is a little outside the scope
of the
> normal
> > track
> > > > of this discussion group. My question is more about the use
of speex as
> a
> > web
> > > > developer than about the internals of the codec. I searched
all over
> the
> > web
> > > > for this information, though, and am trying here as a last
resort.
> > > > 
> > > > I am trying to develop a way to offer slide shows with a
voice-over. I
> > would
> > > > like to offer speex as a low-bandwidth option in addition to
MP3 and
> > possibly
> > > > WAV formats. I am struggling to figure out how to support
the
> > "audio/x-speex"
> > > > mime type across browsers effectively.
> > > > 
> > > > Ironically, the one where I have had best success is with
Windows
> Media
> > Player.
> > > > Once the DirectShow filters are installed on a PC, I use the
<object>
> tag
> > to
> > > > invoke Windows Media Player, and it happily plays the speex
file.
> (Ironic
> > that
> > > > this is the least-standard-compliant, least-open-source
combination of
> > web
> > > > browser and OS, and the only one where I can get speex
working!)
> > > > 
> > > > I would like to be able to bring up a player with the
correct, HTML
> 4.01
> > > > approach, that should support any browser that recognizes
the MIME
> type
> > and the
> > > > correct use of the object tag. The tag looks like this:
> > > > 
> > > > <object type="audio/x-speex"
data="myaudio.spx">
> > > > If your browser does not support a player object, <a
> > href="myaudio.spx">download
> > > > the speech</a> and play it separately.
> > > > </object>
> > > > 
> > > > (The main object tag gives the mime type and file location.
The text
> > between it
> > > > and the close is an alternate rendering, for browsers that
cannot
> display
> > the
> > > > object tag.)
> > > > 
> > > > My problem is that I am not sure which speex players will
properly
> > register the
> > > > MIME type with the web browser and operating system, so that
a ".spx"
> > file will
> > > > play and so that the "audio/x-speex" MIME type
creates a player
> object.
> > > > 
> > > > I have tried using Firefox under MS Windows, and Firefox
does not even
> > recognize
> > > > the MIME type at all, even after installing DirectShow
filters. It
> does
> > not
> > > > even know what to offer to download.
> > > > 
> > > > I am happy to give separate tech support instructions for
different
> > browsers and
> > > > operating systems, because my hope is that people will keep
coming
> back
> > to my
> > > > site for educational information. I may offer WAV or MP3
formats for
> > more
> > > > casual users, or perhaps just short "teasers" to
get them to download
> > the
> > > > decoders for the more efficient speex format.
> > > > 
> > > > My hope is by getting an answer to this question, I can help
promote
> the
> > use of
> > > > speex on the web. I certainly plan to send any solutions to
the
> Firefox
> > team,
> > > > so that they recognize and offer to download players for the
speex
> MIME
> > type in
> > > > the future.
----------------------
Alex S. Brown, PMP
alexsbrown@alexsbrown.com
http://www.alexsbrown.com/