samba - Jun 2019 - Mac OS & Folder Timestamps

So this issue might not strictly a Samba problem, but it happens to be
where I found the issue and maybe there's a solution in the server or
someone who's familiar with the problem. Basically I'm using a Pi as a
small nas. I have a folder /media/ and a script that mounts usb drives
there automatically. So I shared /media/ with smb.conf. Windows & Linux had
no issue accessing the data, but Mac couldn't navigate into the folders
that had drives mounted on them. For example '/mnt/usb drive'
wouldn't
work. I'd click the folder and it'd say "The folder can't be
opened because
you don't have permission to view it's contents". Finally opened
Wireshark
to see what the difference was between the folder with a drive mounted and
a normal folder that I made with mkdir. Apparently all the timestamp
information is set to 0 on the mount point folders and Mac OS just assumes
a 0 time means it doesn't have permission to browse the folder. I manually
set the time on the folder with touch -t and suddenly my Mac can browse
those folders. Not sure what the proper or permanent solution is, but it's
not an issue I would've guessed. Is the case of zeroed timestamps covered
as a special case in any Samba specs or code? Maybe I just have to have the
mount script touch the time on those folders, possibly after the drive has
been mounted. I haven't determined exactly why the timestamps on those
folders are 0 to begin with.

Thanks,
David

On Sat, Jun 29, 2019 at 2:40 PM David Corrigan via samba
<samba at lists.samba.org> wrote:
>
> So this issue might not strictly a Samba problem, but it happens to be
> where I found the issue and maybe there's a solution in the server or
> someone who's familiar with the problem. Basically I'm using a Pi
as a
> small nas. I have a folder /media/ and a script that mounts usb drives
> there automatically. So I shared /media/ with smb.conf. Windows & Linux
had
> no issue accessing the data, but Mac couldn't navigate into the folders
> that had drives mounted on them. For example '/mnt/usb drive'
wouldn't
> work. I'd click the folder and it'd say "The folder can't
be opened because
> you don't have permission to view it's contents". Finally
opened Wireshark
> to see what the difference was between the folder with a drive mounted and
> a normal folder that I made with mkdir. Apparently all the timestamp
> information is set to 0 on the mount point folders and Mac OS just assumes
> a 0 time means it doesn't have permission to browse the folder. I
manually
> set the time on the folder with touch -t and suddenly my Mac can browse
> those folders. Not sure what the proper or permanent solution is, but
it's
> not an issue I would've guessed. Is the case of zeroed timestamps
covered
> as a special case in any Samba specs or code? Maybe I just have to have the
> mount script touch the time on those folders, possibly after the drive has
> been mounted. I haven't determined exactly why the timestamps on those
> folders are 0 to begin with.
You have a Mac. As much as I appreciate Samba's power and
sophistication, especially to replace Active Directory controllers
with a powerful service today, do you have a compelling reason to use
CIFS over NFS? NFS, as life turns out, may not be as performant. I
acknowledge that CIFS has improved over time. But NFS mixed case
filesystems correctly, which CIFS never will for legacy reasons. (You
can't put two files in the same directory, one named "makefile"
and
the other named "Makefile".) And it can be notably less complex to
administrate on the client for just such situations as this.

It may not be your long-term desired solution, but it may get you out
of this particular rut.

On 29/06/2019 19:38, David Corrigan via samba wrote:
> So this issue might not strictly a Samba problem, but it happens to be
> where I found the issue and maybe there's a solution in the server or
> someone who's familiar with the problem. Basically I'm using a Pi
as a
> small nas. I have a folder /media/ and a script that mounts usb drives
> there automatically. So I shared /media/ with smb.conf. Windows & Linux
had
> no issue accessing the data, but Mac couldn't navigate into the folders
> that had drives mounted on them. For example '/mnt/usb drive'
wouldn't
> work. I'd click the folder and it'd say "The folder can't
be opened because
> you don't have permission to view it's contents". Finally
opened Wireshark
> to see what the difference was between the folder with a drive mounted and
> a normal folder that I made with mkdir. Apparently all the timestamp
> information is set to 0 on the mount point folders and Mac OS just assumes
> a 0 time means it doesn't have permission to browse the folder. I
manually
> set the time on the folder with touch -t and suddenly my Mac can browse
> those folders. Not sure what the proper or permanent solution is, but
it's
> not an issue I would've guessed. Is the case of zeroed timestamps
covered
> as a special case in any Samba specs or code? Maybe I just have to have the
> mount script touch the time on those folders, possibly after the drive has
> been mounted. I haven't determined exactly why the timestamps on those
> folders are 0 to begin with.
>
> Thanks,
> David
known problem: https://bugzilla.samba.org/show_bug.cgi?id=13999

Rowland

On 6/30/19 9:21 AM, Rowland penny via samba wrote:
> known problem: https://bugzilla.samba.org/show_bug.cgi?id=13999
fwiw, that sounds completely unrelated.

-slow

-- 
Ralph Boehme, Samba Team                https://samba.org/
Samba Developer, SerNet GmbH   https://sernet.de/en/samba/
GPG-Fingerprint   FAE2C6088A24252051C559E4AA1E9B7126399E46

On 6/30/19 4:15 AM, Nico Kadel-Garcia via samba wrote:
> On Sat, Jun 29, 2019 at 2:40 PM David Corrigan via samba
> <samba at lists.samba.org> wrote:
>>
>> So this issue might not strictly a Samba problem, but it happens to be
>> where I found the issue and maybe there's a solution in the server
or
>> someone who's familiar with the problem. Basically I'm using a
Pi as a
>> small nas. I have a folder /media/ and a script that mounts usb drives
>> there automatically. So I shared /media/ with smb.conf. Windows &
Linux had
>> no issue accessing the data, but Mac couldn't navigate into the
folders
>> that had drives mounted on them. For example '/mnt/usb drive'
wouldn't
>> work. I'd click the folder and it'd say "The folder
can't be opened because
>> you don't have permission to view it's contents". Finally
opened Wireshark
>> to see what the difference was between the folder with a drive mounted
and
>> a normal folder that I made with mkdir. Apparently all the timestamp
>> information is set to 0 on the mount point folders and Mac OS just
assumes
>> a 0 time means it doesn't have permission to browse the folder. I
manually
>> set the time on the folder with touch -t and suddenly my Mac can browse
>> those folders. Not sure what the proper or permanent solution is, but
it's
>> not an issue I would've guessed. Is the case of zeroed timestamps
covered
>> as a special case in any Samba specs or code? Maybe I just have to have
the
>> mount script touch the time on those folders, possibly after the drive
has
>> been mounted. I haven't determined exactly why the timestamps on
those
>> folders are 0 to begin with.
> 
> You have a Mac. As much as I appreciate Samba's power and
> sophistication, especially to replace Active Directory controllers
> with a powerful service today, do you have a compelling reason to use
> CIFS over NFS? NFS, as life turns out, may not be as performant. I
> acknowledge that CIFS has improved over time. But NFS mixed case
> filesystems correctly, which CIFS never will for legacy reasons. (You
> can't put two files in the same directory, one named
"makefile" and
> the other named "Makefile".) And it can be notably less complex
to
> administrate on the client for just such situations as this.
> 
> It may not be your long-term desired solution, but it may get you out
> of this particular rut.
possibly, but you end up with a bunch of other issues. NFS for Macs is
third class. If you can, use AFP (sic!), SMB second, NFS last. As AFP is
EOL, SMB bet it.

-slow

-- 
Ralph Boehme, Samba Team                https://samba.org/
Samba Developer, SerNet GmbH   https://sernet.de/en/samba/
GPG-Fingerprint   FAE2C6088A24252051C559E4AA1E9B7126399E46

On Sat, Jun 29, 2019 at 10:15:03PM -0400, Nico Kadel-Garcia via samba
wrote:
> 
> You have a Mac. As much as I appreciate Samba's power and
> sophistication, especially to replace Active Directory controllers
> with a powerful service today, do you have a compelling reason to use
> CIFS over NFS? NFS, as life turns out, may not be as performant. I
> acknowledge that CIFS has improved over time. But NFS mixed case
> filesystems correctly, which CIFS never will for legacy reasons. (You
> can't put two files in the same directory, one named
"makefile" and
> the other named "Makefile".) And it can be notably less complex
to
Well, that's not true for the planned SMB3+ UNIX extensions,
which will allow this to work. There's a test tree on samba.org
that implenents this and Steve French's SMB3 kernel client is implementing
the client-side of things. Steve (Samba Team member) works for Microsoft
now, so whilst this isn't an official Microsoft endorsement of these
changes, it is certainly a positive step for Linux.

We're being much more careful than we were with the gung-ho SMB1
UNIX extensions, paying much more attention to correctness and
security, but it's a glimpse of where we're planning to get to.