alright, so maybe it wasn''t those handshake errors I posted before that are causing my pages to timeout... I was poking through httpd.conf and noticed this line was set: SetEnvIf User-Agent ".*MSIE.*" nokeepalive ssl-unclean-shutdown I wonder if anyone has any thoughts about taking that line out, or having it do that for every browser. Though one of my timeouts was with someone using IE so I''m not sure it did the right thing. Does anyone know which browsers for sure can deal with ssl-accurate-shutdown? thanks for any help. -aaron