What happened to the release???? -- Posted via http://www.ruby-forum.com/. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk+unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en.
+1 for any answer... On 19 Lug, 18:06, Ken Foust <li...-fsXkhYbjdPsEEoCn2XhGlw@public.gmane.org> wrote:> What happened to the release???? > -- > Posted viahttp://www.ruby-forum.com/.-- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk+unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en.
Real soon now. Pending a Bundler release candidate. jeremy On Thu, Jul 22, 2010 at 7:31 AM, Tex <giates2000-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> wrote:> +1 for any answer... > > On 19 Lug, 18:06, Ken Foust <li...-fsXkhYbjdPsEEoCn2XhGlw@public.gmane.org> wrote: >> What happened to the release???? >> -- >> Posted viahttp://www.ruby-forum.com/. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. > To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk+unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org > For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en. > >-- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk+unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en.
Probably too busy racing cars or posing for Men''s Book :-P -- Posted via http://www.ruby-forum.com/. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk+unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en.
Ken Foust wrote:> What happened to the release????And not a blog post since 8 June. Not impressed. Hey, core team: we understand that this is an open-source effort, but keep us updated when you miss your deadlines, ''K? Best, -- Marnen Laibow-Koser http://www.marnen.org marnen-sbuyVjPbboAdnm+yROfE0A@public.gmane.org -- Posted via http://www.ruby-forum.com/. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk+unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en.
Let them work, they also have lives. C''mon guys. On Thu, Jul 22, 2010 at 1:29 PM, Marnen Laibow-Koser <lists-fsXkhYbjdPsEEoCn2XhGlw@public.gmane.org> wrote:> Ken Foust wrote: >> What happened to the release???? > > And not a blog post since 8 June. Not impressed. Hey, core team: we > understand that this is an open-source effort, but keep us updated when > you miss your deadlines, ''K? > > Best, > -- > Marnen Laibow-Koser > http://www.marnen.org > marnen-sbuyVjPbboAdnm+yROfE0A@public.gmane.org > -- > Posted via http://www.ruby-forum.com/. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. > To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en. > >-- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en.
Marcelo de Moraes Serpa wrote:> Let them work, they also have lives. C''mon guys.Rails is not entirely a volunteer effort; my understanding is that at least some of the core team (such as DHH) are paid by 37signals for the specific purpose of working on Rails (am I wrong about this?). That being the case, "they also have lives" is a lame excuse. Besides, even if it were a volunteer effort, it''s a major project. When a blog post comes out on 2 June promising a release in a couple of days, and it''s now 24 July, I don''t think it''s inappropriate to get impatient for a release or an explanation of the delay. Heck, if they asked for help, they might get some, but this silence is bad if the core team want to keep their credibility. Why should I trust a core team that can''t get its act together to take 2 minutes to write a blog post explaining why the release was delayed? Best, -- Marnen Laibow-Koser http://www.marnen.org marnen-sbuyVjPbboAdnm+yROfE0A@public.gmane.org -- Posted via http://www.ruby-forum.com/. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk+unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en.
Marnen Laibow-Koser wrote:> Marcelo de Moraes Serpa wrote: >> Let them work, they also have lives. C''mon guys. > > Rails is not entirely a volunteer effort; my understanding is that at > least some of the core team (such as DHH) are paid by 37signals for the > specific purpose of working on Rails (am I wrong about this?). That > being the case, "they also have lives" is a lame excuse. > > Besides, even if it were a volunteer effort, it''s a major project. When > a blog post comes out on 2 June promising a release in a couple of days, > and it''s now 24 July,Oops, 8 June, not 2 June. Still bad. -- Posted via http://www.ruby-forum.com/. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk+unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en.
>Rails is not entirely a volunteer effort; my understanding is that at >least some of the core team (such as DHH) are paid by 37signals for the >specific purpose of working on Rails (am I wrong about this?). That >being the case, "they also have lives" is a lame excuse.>Besides, even if it were a volunteer effort, it''s a major project. When >a blog post comes out on 2 June promising a release in a couple of days, >and it''s now 24 July, I don''t think it''s inappropriate to get impatient >for a release or an explanation of the delay. Heck, if they asked for >help, they might get some, but this silence is bad if the core team want >to keep their credibility. Why should I trust a core team that can''t >get its act together to take 2 minutes to write a blog post explaining >why the release was delayed?Well, it might be just me -- I''m excited about Rails 3, but I don''t really need it right now. To be honest, I haven''t even been following closely, didn''t even know about the release dates, so maybe my judgement was too subjective. We probably won''t get any solid answers from this mailing list, as I rarely see core-members around. Best, Marcelo. On Thu, Jul 22, 2010 at 1:41 PM, Marnen Laibow-Koser <lists-fsXkhYbjdPsEEoCn2XhGlw@public.gmane.org> wrote:> Marnen Laibow-Koser wrote: >> Marcelo de Moraes Serpa wrote: >>> Let them work, they also have lives. C''mon guys. >> >> Rails is not entirely a volunteer effort; my understanding is that at >> least some of the core team (such as DHH) are paid by 37signals for the >> specific purpose of working on Rails (am I wrong about this?). That >> being the case, "they also have lives" is a lame excuse. >> >> Besides, even if it were a volunteer effort, it''s a major project. When >> a blog post comes out on 2 June promising a release in a couple of days, >> and it''s now 24 July, > > Oops, 8 June, not 2 June. Still bad. > -- > Posted via http://www.ruby-forum.com/. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. > To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en. > >-- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en.
On Thu, Jul 22, 2010 at 11:40 AM, Marnen Laibow-Koser <lists-fsXkhYbjdPsEEoCn2XhGlw@public.gmane.org> wrote:> Marcelo de Moraes Serpa wrote: >> Let them work, they also have lives. C''mon guys. > > Rails is not entirely a volunteer effort; my understanding is that at > least some of the core team (such as DHH) are paid by 37signals for the > specific purpose of working on Rails (am I wrong about this?). That > being the case, "they also have lives" is a lame excuse. > > Besides, even if it were a volunteer effort, it''s a major project. When > a blog post comes out on 2 June promising a release in a couple of days, > and it''s now 24 July, I don''t think it''s inappropriate to get impatient > for a release or an explanation of the delay. Heck, if they asked for > help, they might get some, but this silence is bad if the core team want > to keep their credibility. Why should I trust a core team that can''t > get its act together to take 2 minutes to write a blog post explaining > why the release was delayed?This should help clear things up: http://bit.ly/diXfGx But really. Real soon now. jeremy -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en.
Jeremy Kemper wrote:> On Thu, Jul 22, 2010 at 11:40 AM, Marnen Laibow-Koser > <lists-fsXkhYbjdPsEEoCn2XhGlw@public.gmane.org> wrote: >> and it''s now 24 July, I don''t think it''s inappropriate to get impatient >> for a release or an explanation of the delay. �Heck, if they asked for >> help, they might get some, but this silence is bad if the core team want >> to keep their credibility. �Why should I trust a core team that can''t >> get its act together to take 2 minutes to write a blog post explaining >> why the release was delayed? > > This should help clear things up: http://bit.ly/diXfGxOh, that was classy from a member of the core team. Not. That attitude could get me (and probably a lot of others) to quit using Rails. And I''m a Rabid Rails Fanboy [TM].> > But really. Real soon now. > > jeremyBest, -- Marnen Laibow-Koser http://www.marnen.org marnen-sbuyVjPbboAdnm+yROfE0A@public.gmane.org -- Posted via http://www.ruby-forum.com/. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en.
On Thu, Jul 22, 2010 at 12:21 PM, Marnen Laibow-Koser <lists-fsXkhYbjdPsEEoCn2XhGlw@public.gmane.org> wrote:> Jeremy Kemper wrote: >> On Thu, Jul 22, 2010 at 11:40 AM, Marnen Laibow-Koser >> <lists-fsXkhYbjdPsEEoCn2XhGlw@public.gmane.org> wrote: >>> and it''s now 24 July, I don''t think it''s inappropriate to get impatient >>> for a release or an explanation of the delay. �Heck, if they asked for >>> help, they might get some, but this silence is bad if the core team want >>> to keep their credibility. �Why should I trust a core team that can''t >>> get its act together to take 2 minutes to write a blog post explaining >>> why the release was delayed? >> >> This should help clear things up: http://bit.ly/diXfGx > > Oh, that was classy from a member of the core team. Not. > > That attitude could get me (and probably a lot of others) to quit using > Rails. And I''m a Rabid Rails Fanboy [TM].An attitude of entitlement just rubs everyone wrong and doesn''t move the project forward. Your annoyance is understandable but, alone, it is not constructive. Ultimately, your message is spot-on. It has been a while and many are on pins and needles waiting for a non-beta gem to munch on. Real soon now. We, too, are pretty annoyed that the release candidate has dragged on, but we want a candidate we''d feel comfortable deploying to production with our own apps. Thankfully, we''ve had tons of people testing the betas and bringing the polish up to release quality. That means a short RC cycle. Check out http://github.com/rails/rails/compare/v3.0.0.beta4...master for a sense of the work that has been going into this. This release is going to rock. jeremy -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en.
On Thu, Jul 22, 2010 at 2:11 PM, Jeremy Kemper <jeremy-w7CzD/W5Ocjk1uMJSBkQmQ@public.gmane.org> wrote:> This should help clear things up: http://bit.ly/diXfGxLol. Thanks, I needed that! -- Greg Donald destiney.com | gregdonald.com -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk+unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en.
On Thu, Jul 22, 2010 at 2:21 PM, Marnen Laibow-Koser <lists-fsXkhYbjdPsEEoCn2XhGlw@public.gmane.org> wrote:> Oh, that was classy from a member of the core team. Not.Get over it. No one wants to hear your bitching and moaning.> That attitude could get me (and probably a lot of others) to quit using > Rails. And I''m a Rabid Rails Fanboy [TM].So quit. No one is holding a gun to your head. I''m sure Rasmus and the Zend team would love to have you. -- Greg Donald destiney.com | gregdonald.com -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en.
Jeremy Kemper wrote:> On Thu, Jul 22, 2010 at 12:21 PM, Marnen Laibow-Koser > <lists-fsXkhYbjdPsEEoCn2XhGlw@public.gmane.org> wrote: >>> This should help clear things up: http://bit.ly/diXfGx >> >> Oh, that was classy from a member of the core team. Not. >> >> That attitude could get me (and probably a lot of others) to quit using >> Rails. And I''m a Rabid Rails Fanboy [TM]. > > An attitude of entitlement just rubs everyone wrong and doesn''t move > the project forward.What attitude of entitlement? I don''t think I have one here. What I *do* have, however, is an expectation that once a release estimate is made, either a release or a revised estimate should follow, not 6 weeks of silence. Is that unreasonable?> Your annoyance is understandable but, alone, it > is not constructive.Neither is your silence. And your insults certainly aren''t. Your latest message is, for which I thank you.> > Ultimately, your message is spot-on. It has been a while and many are > on pins and needles waiting for a non-beta gem to munch on. Real soon > now.I''m not so much impatient waiting for a release. Rather, I just think better communication would be helpful. I''m already sold on Rails -- I really, really love it. However, if I were sitting on the fence right now -- say, switching from PHP or Java, and evaluating Ruby, Rails, Sinatra, Python, Django, $RAILS_COMPETITOR... -- I''d think twice about adopting a technology that has this sort of support from its core team. In other words, I don''t fundamentally care that much whether Rails 3 is released in August or December. I just think that whatever is decided, it should be better communicated.> > We, too, are pretty annoyed that the release candidate has dragged on, > but we want a candidate we''d feel comfortable deploying to production > with our own apps.I appreciate that. Again, the time is not the problem. The lack of communication is.> Thankfully, we''ve had tons of people testing the > betas and bringing the polish up to release quality. That means a > short RC cycle. > > Check out http://github.com/rails/rails/compare/v3.0.0.beta4...master > for a sense of the work that has been going into this. This release is > going to rock.Who cares how much it rocks if it never sees the light of day?> > jeremyBest, -- Marnen Laibow-Koser http://www.marnen.org marnen-sbuyVjPbboAdnm+yROfE0A@public.gmane.org -- Posted via http://www.ruby-forum.com/. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en.
On Thu, Jul 22, 2010 at 3:58 PM, Marnen Laibow-Koser <lists-fsXkhYbjdPsEEoCn2XhGlw@public.gmane.org>wrote:> > > Who cares how much it rocks if it never sees the light of day? >I totally sold a client on Rails 3 for a major project 2 months ago, on the assumption its release was as immanent as promised, and (Go Figure!) I heard the very same concern from that client about their project just yesterday. I was looking at Padrino recently and rather like it. It''s a young framework, nowhere near as mature, but has an interesting architectural "value prop"... and at least so far I haven''t gotten any STFUs from the development team. :) - Bob> > > > > jeremy > > Best, > -- > Marnen Laibow-Koser > http://www.marnen.org > marnen-sbuyVjPbboAdnm+yROfE0A@public.gmane.org > -- > Posted via http://www.ruby-forum.com/. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. > To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > rubyonrails-talk+unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org<rubyonrails-talk%2Bunsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org> > . > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en. > >-- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk+unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en.
> Real soon now.This kind of answer is from whimps, not from successful business men. We want an accurate date i.e: 25th of July 2010 12am? Sooner? Later? At least keep us informed of what''s going on! RC is gonna be delayed? Not a big deal if you warn us about such delays. An no, switching is not that easy, having to learn a new language, a new framework, idioms, porting code, etc takes a lot of time. 37signals publishes books and articles on how to be a better coder, be successful, haha, you don''t seem to follow the principles you teach! -- Posted via http://www.ruby-forum.com/. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk+unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en.
Rails is Rails because of the attitude behind it. It is opinionated, not only the software, but the process behind it, too. Do we complain when Blizzard says a new title will be done ''when it''s done''? I would not promise anything to my clients based on unreleased software, by the way! We already have a track of releases for Rails, so I''m sure it won''t be a Rails Nuke''em forever. Just enjoy life and be more patient. On Thu, Jul 22, 2010 at 3:25 PM, Fernando Perez <lists-fsXkhYbjdPsEEoCn2XhGlw@public.gmane.org> wrote:>> Real soon now. > > This kind of answer is from whimps, not from successful business men. We > want an accurate date i.e: 25th of July 2010 12am? Sooner? Later? > > At least keep us informed of what''s going on! RC is gonna be delayed? > Not a big deal if you warn us about such delays. > > An no, switching is not that easy, having to learn a new language, a new > framework, idioms, porting code, etc takes a lot of time. > > 37signals publishes books and articles on how to be a better coder, be > successful, haha, you don''t seem to follow the principles you teach! > -- > Posted via http://www.ruby-forum.com/. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. > To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk+unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org > For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en. > >-- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk+unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en.
On Thu, Jul 22, 2010 at 3:25 PM, Fernando Perez <lists-fsXkhYbjdPsEEoCn2XhGlw@public.gmane.org> wrote:> An no, switching is not that easy, having to learn a new language,Rails release dates are in no way keeping you from learning Ruby or Rails 2. Stop whining.> a new > framework, idioms, porting code, etc takes a lot of time.Like I told the last guy, no one is holding a gun to your head. Go play with PHP or ASP if the Rails release dates don''t suite you. You won''t be missed, I promise. -- Greg Donald destiney.com | gregdonald.com -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk+unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en.
Ken Foust wrote:> What happened to the release????well i like it and it is working that is the important part. I will probably have a year at least on rail 3 before rails 4 so i am happy jumping in at the leading edge I just need a complex tutorial like a mini ebay -- Posted via http://www.ruby-forum.com/. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk+unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en.
> Rails release dates are in no way keeping you from learning Ruby or > Rails 2. Stop whining. > Like I told the last guy, no one is holding a gun to your head. Go > play with PHP or ASP if the Rails release dates don''t suite you.Release dates? There is no release date! And why are you talking about learning ruby and rails2? We are talking about rails3 here! Did you post to the wrong thread? Ever heard about barriers to exit at college? Paid professional work requires more than just "playing" with a new language like you suggest. -- Posted via http://www.ruby-forum.com/. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk+unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en.
On Thu, Jul 22, 2010 at 4:03 PM, Fernando Perez <lists-fsXkhYbjdPsEEoCn2XhGlw@public.gmane.org> wrote:> Release dates? There is no release date!I''m well aware of this fact. This thread is full of cry-babies who seem to think there is a release date, or that one has passed already.> And why are you talking about learning ruby and rails2? We are talking > about rails3 here! Did you post to the wrong thread?No. There is nothing wrong with learning Rails 2 if you don''t currently know Rails at all.> Ever heard about barriers to exit at college? Paid professional work > requires more than just "playing" with a new language like you suggest.I work in genetics research at a medical university. I am presently writing a Rails 3 application using Ruby 1.9.2-preview3. I am not playing with anything but your girlfriend. -- Greg Donald destiney.com | gregdonald.com -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk+unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en.
> I am not playing with anything but your girlfriend.Yeah that''s your dream! If only it could come true. Okay now go play with your chromosomes while we talk about customers falling on our back, and development being held back. Is the no release dates a habit in the ruby/rails ecosystem? Because the developer of TextMate fell into this trap and now he suffers from it. Even Debian is moving away from that paradigm! -- Posted via http://www.ruby-forum.com/. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk+unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en.
Marcelo de Moraes Serpa wrote:> Rails is Rails because of the attitude behind it. It is opinionated, > not only the software, but the process behind it, too.Opinionated is fine. Noncommunicative is not, in my opinionated estimation. :)> Do we complain > when Blizzard says a new title will be done ''when it''s done''?No. And I wouldn''t complain if the Rails team said that -- we all know that quality software takes time. But what was said was that there would be a release in "a couple of days", and then there was neither a release nor further communication (apparently, till now?).> I would > not promise anything to my clients based on unreleased software, by > the way!Nor would I.> We already have a track of releases for Rails, so I''m sure it > won''t be a Rails Nuke''em forever.I''m not.> Just enjoy life and be more patient.I do enjoy life. I''m very patient right up to the point where someone promises a specific timeframe. Best, -- Marnen Laibow-Koser http://www.marnen.org marnen-sbuyVjPbboAdnm+yROfE0A@public.gmane.org -- Posted via http://www.ruby-forum.com/. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk+unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en.
> Opinionated is fine. Noncommunicative is not, in my opinionated > estimation. :)Exactly we are talking about an error of communication. I would be fine if rubyonrails.org posted an article about why delays, how long it''s expected to take, etc. Lack of project planning is unacceptable in 2010. -- Posted via http://www.ruby-forum.com/. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk+unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en.
On Thu, Jul 22, 2010 at 4:30 PM, Fernando Perez <lists-fsXkhYbjdPsEEoCn2XhGlw@public.gmane.org> wrote:> Okay now go play with your chromosomes while we talk about customers > falling on our back, and development being held back.Again, no one is stopping you from creating a Rails3 app. There is a set of beta4 gems that are working fine for me and my colleagues. I have found no real show-stoppers.> Is the no release dates a habit in the ruby/rails ecosystem?It doesn''t matter. We have Rails2 and it works great. We have Rails3 beta4 and it works well enough to begin doing development. At some point the 3.0 will arrive, but it''s no big deal if it''s not today.> Because the > developer of TextMate fell into this trap and now he suffers from it. > Even Debian is moving away from that paradigm!Who cares? If you are unhappy with Rails then use something else. They don''t care about your "business schedule" or whatever, and no one here wants to hear you complain. -- Greg Donald destiney.com | gregdonald.com -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk+unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en.
Greg Donald wrote: [...]> They don''t care about your "business schedule" or whatever,You''re not on the core team last I heard, so I doubt that you can claim to speak for them.> and no one > here wants to hear you complain.You don''t speak for the whole list either. Best, -- Marnen Laibow-Koser http://www.marnen.org marnen-sbuyVjPbboAdnm+yROfE0A@public.gmane.org -- Posted via http://www.ruby-forum.com/. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk+unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en.
Marnen Laibow-Koser wrote:> Marcelo de Moraes Serpa wrote: >> Let them work, they also have lives. C''mon guys. > > Rails is not entirely a volunteer effort; my understanding is that at > least some of the core team (such as DHH) are paid by 37signals for the > specific purpose of working on Rails (am I wrong about this?). That > being the case, "they also have lives" is a lame excuse. > > Besides, even if it were a volunteer effort, it''s a major project. When > a blog post comes out on 2 June promising a release in a couple of days, > and it''s now 24 July, I don''t think it''s inappropriate to get impatient > for a release or an explanation of the delay. Heck, if they asked for > help, they might get some, but this silence is bad if the core team want > to keep their credibility. Why should I trust a core team that can''t > get its act together to take 2 minutes to write a blog post explaining > why the release was delayed?To paraphrase: What am I paying you guys for? I demand *my* money''s worth! -- Alan Gutierrez - alan-LPwGgQyxhUi+XT7JhA+gdA@public.gmane.org - http://twitter.com/bigeasy -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk+unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en.
Robert Calco wrote:> On Thu, Jul 22, 2010 at 3:58 PM, Marnen Laibow-Koser > <lists-fsXkhYbjdPsEEoCn2XhGlw@public.gmane.org <mailto:lists-fsXkhYbjdPsEEoCn2XhGlw@public.gmane.org>> wrote: > > > > Who cares how much it rocks if it never sees the light of day? > > > I totally sold a client on Rails 3 for a major project 2 months ago, on > the assumption its release was as immanent as promised, and (Go Figure!) > I heard the very same concern from that client about their project just > yesterday.What promise? Citation would be nice. -- Alan Gutierrez - alan-LPwGgQyxhUi+XT7JhA+gdA@public.gmane.org - http://twitter.com/bigeasy -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk+unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en.
Alan Gutierrez wrote:> Marnen Laibow-Koser wrote: >> and it''s now 24 July, I don''t think it''s inappropriate to get impatient >> for a release or an explanation of the delay. Heck, if they asked for >> help, they might get some, but this silence is bad if the core team want >> to keep their credibility. Why should I trust a core team that can''t >> get its act together to take 2 minutes to write a blog post explaining >> why the release was delayed? > > To paraphrase: > > What am I paying you guys for? I demand *my* money''s worth!Uh, what? That''s not what I meant at all. I''m not demanding my "money''s worth". In fact, I''m not *demanding* anything. I don''t see how it''s unreasonable to point out what I pointed out: that saying "we''ll have something in a couple of days" followed by 6 weeks of silence reflects poorly on the core team. The core team may do what they see fit with that information.> > -- > Alan Gutierrez - alan-LPwGgQyxhUi+XT7JhA+gdA@public.gmane.org - http://twitter.com/bigeasyBest, -- Marnen Laibow-Koser http://www.marnen.org marnen-sbuyVjPbboAdnm+yROfE0A@public.gmane.org -- Posted via http://www.ruby-forum.com/. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk+unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en.
> Again, no one is stopping you from creating a Rails3 app. There is a > set of beta4 gems that are working fine for me and my colleagues. I > have found no real show-stoppers.You obviously don''t code in Rails. Google "invalid multibyte char (US-ASCII)". Rails 3 beta 4 is not yet fixed.> It doesn''t matter. We have Rails2 and it works great. We have Rails3 > beta4 and it works well enough to begin doing development. At some > point the 3.0 will arrive, but it''s no big deal if it''s not today.It''s painful to start a rails2 app, if in "a few days" rails3 gets released, that will waste valuable time porting the new app to rails 3. Time is money, maybe not when you "work" in a university though.> Who cares? If you are unhappy with Rails then use something else. > They don''t care about your "business schedule" or whatever, and no one > here wants to hear you complain.As Marnen said don''t speak on behalf of the rails core team. I highly doubt they disregard customers/users feedback! And if they do, their business will collapse. Pop quiz: --------- Greg Donald''s statement "If you are unhappy with Rails then use something else [...] and no one here wants to hear you complain" is: 1. Anti-democratic 2. Against the 1st amendment of the United States Constitution 3. Against article #19 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights 4. All the above -- Posted via http://www.ruby-forum.com/. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk+unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en.
Fernando Perez wrote: [...]> Pop quiz: > --------- > Greg Donald''s statement "If you are unhappy with Rails then use > something else [...] and no one here wants to hear you complain" is: > > 1. Anti-democratic > 2. Against the 1st amendment of the United States Constitution > 3. Against article #19 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights > 4. All the aboveProbably 1 only (and inaccurate). Certainly none of the others. I''m as frustrated as anybody else here, but I don''t think I''m being repressed. Best, -- Marnen Laibow-Koser http://www.marnen.org marnen-sbuyVjPbboAdnm+yROfE0A@public.gmane.org -- Posted via http://www.ruby-forum.com/. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk+unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en.
I politely hinted at a similar question yesterday and got a similarly terse an answer. Growing pains. I think everyone appreciates the work that goes into Rails. Can I hear a "Hell yeah"? At this huge code factory place I used to work (I forgot the name, it''s been a while) we had three mailing lists where the devs were encouraged to announce new features, feature changes, and bug fixes. Just a short note like, "New Feature: Hal9000 can now read lips." Besides keeping everyone informed, it had the unexpected benefit giving the devs that illusive sense of accomplishment, like when you can check something off. A ton of "nice job" mails would come in and you felt good about your work, even while filling out those *&%$! TPS coversheets. Lighthouse alone doesn''t give us that. It''s good at tracking bugs/issue but it doesn''t allow someone to see what''s going on, have the pulse of the whole. If the status was communicated more clearly, more often in a single place, no one will care if it''s late as long as they have something to tell their dev-team, managers and clients. (Well, very few -- can''t please everybody.) Just a thought. Dee -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk+unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en.
Dee wrote:> I politely hinted at a similar question yesterday and got a similarly > terse an answer. Growing pains. I think everyone appreciates the work > that goes into Rails. Can I hear a "Hell yeah"?HELL YEAH! (Everything I''ve said here has been from the point of view of wanting Rails to keep kicking ass.) [...]> If the status was communicated more clearly, more often in a single > place, no one will care if it''s late as long as they have something to > tell their dev-team, managers and clients. (Well, very few -- can''t > please everybody.)Exactly. That''s what I meant about silence being more of an issue than lateness.> > Just a thought. > > DeeBest, -- Marnen Laibow-Koser http://www.marnen.org marnen-sbuyVjPbboAdnm+yROfE0A@public.gmane.org -- Posted via http://www.ruby-forum.com/. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk+unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en.
On Thu, Jul 22, 2010 at 6:39 PM, Marnen Laibow-Koser <lists-fsXkhYbjdPsEEoCn2XhGlw@public.gmane.org> wrote:> Exactly. That''s what I meant about silence being more of an issue than > lateness.They are in no way being silent and NOTHING is late. Take your whiny ass over to the dashboard and you can see EXACTLY what is going on: https://rails.lighthouseapp.com/dashboard Bunch of fucking cry-babies. geez. -- Greg Donald destiney.com | gregdonald.com -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en.
Greg Donald wrote:> On Thu, Jul 22, 2010 at 6:39 PM, Marnen Laibow-Koser > <lists-fsXkhYbjdPsEEoCn2XhGlw@public.gmane.org> wrote: >> Exactly. �That''s what I meant about silence being more of an issue than >> lateness. > > They are in no way being silent and NOTHING is late. Take your whiny > ass over to the dashboard and you can see EXACTLY what is going on: > > https://rails.lighthouseapp.com/dashboard > > Bunch of fuсking cry-babies. geez.If name-calling is the best you can do, please don''t bother.> > > -- > Greg Donald > destiney.com | gregdonald.com-- Marnen Laibow-Koser http://www.marnen.org marnen-sbuyVjPbboAdnm+yROfE0A@public.gmane.org Sent from my iPhone -- Posted via http://www.ruby-forum.com/. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en.
On Fri, Jul 23, 2010 at 3:23 PM, Marnen Laibow-Koser <lists-fsXkhYbjdPsEEoCn2XhGlw@public.gmane.org> wrote:> If name-calling is the best you can do, please don''t bother.Truth hurts. -- Greg Donald destiney.com | gregdonald.com -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk+unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en.
Just curious, does anyone know if 3.0RC milestone in lighthouse a correct list of the remaining bugs? I was watching it a few weeks ago and they removed the milestone, but they added it back a few days ago.. only 2 tickets in the milestone right now, so it looks like its close to finished. Maybe that will give you guys a warm fuzzy feeling about 3.0... I personally don''t care what the version tag says. I started converting my most complex app to Rails 3 about a month ago with the expectation that the code was almost ready based on the blog from dhh. I was planning on pulling the trigger for the production switchover when RC was available. But now that I have been running on beta4, I don''t see the point in waiting. My app has been tested extensively and is running great on rails 3, and it really doesn''t matter to me what the version label is if it works. There are going to be outstanding tickets regardless of what version they are on.. I mean hell, 2.3.9 has 52 open tickets right now in LH. In my experience (albeit, limited with one app on Rails 3), the code is solid and you can figure out workarounds for any minor bug that you might find. When RC or final 3.0 comes out I don''t really expect to have to change much (if anything). I understand the frustration since dhh said it would be ready in "days" ;-) And I felt some of that frustration until I finished the conversion and testing a few days ago. Start using Rails 3 now! You will not regret it... there are plenty of people using it with no problems including me. FYI.. I saw gemcutter just completed their conversion to Rails 3. On Jul 23, 4:05 pm, Greg Donald <gdon...-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> wrote:> On Thu, Jul 22, 2010 at 6:39 PM, Marnen Laibow-Koser > > <li...-fsXkhYbjdPsEEoCn2XhGlw@public.gmane.org> wrote: > > Exactly. That''s what I meant about silence being more of an issue than > > lateness. > > They are in no way being silent and NOTHING is late. Take your whiny > ass over to the dashboard and you can see EXACTLY what is going on: > > https://rails.lighthouseapp.com/dashboard > > Bunch of fucking cry-babies. geez. > > -- > Greg Donald > destiney.com | gregdonald.com-- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en.
On 23 July 2010 21:47, Greg Donald <gdonald-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> wrote:> On Fri, Jul 23, 2010 at 3:23 PM, Marnen Laibow-Koser > <lists-fsXkhYbjdPsEEoCn2XhGlw@public.gmane.org> wrote: > > If name-calling is the best you can do, please don''t bother. > > Truth hurts. > > > -- > Greg Donald > destiney.com | gregdonald.com > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. > To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > rubyonrails-talk+unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org<rubyonrails-talk%2Bunsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org> > . > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en. > > Sticks and stones may break my bones but whips and chains excite me.... Ooops, sorry. Wrong list :) (Probably going to get banned for that) -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk+unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en.
I think you are in wrong group. This is the one for masochists: http://groups.google.com/group/microsoft.public.dotnet.languages.csharp/topics On Fri, Jul 23, 2010 at 5:03 PM, Steve Spiller < rizsilverthorn-gM/Ye1E23mwN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> wrote:> > > On 23 July 2010 21:47, Greg Donald <gdonald-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> wrote: > >> On Fri, Jul 23, 2010 at 3:23 PM, Marnen Laibow-Koser >> <lists-fsXkhYbjdPsEEoCn2XhGlw@public.gmane.org> wrote: >> > If name-calling is the best you can do, please don''t bother. >> >> Truth hurts. >> >> >> -- >> Greg Donald >> destiney.com | gregdonald.com >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. >> To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> rubyonrails-talk+unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org<rubyonrails-talk%2Bunsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org> >> . >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en. >> >> Sticks and stones may break my bones but whips and chains excite me. > > > ... > > > Ooops, sorry. Wrong list :) > (Probably going to get banned for that) > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. > To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > rubyonrails-talk+unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org<rubyonrails-talk%2Bunsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org> > . > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en. >-- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk+unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en.
Greg Donald wrote:> On Fri, Jul 23, 2010 at 3:23 PM, Marnen Laibow-Koser > <lists-fsXkhYbjdPsEEoCn2XhGlw@public.gmane.org> wrote: >> If name-calling is the best you can do, please don''t bother. > > Truth hurts.Which is why your name-calling didn''t hurt. It just saddened me, because IMHO name-calling has no place on a forum such as this one -- it just cheapens the level of discourse and threatens the Rails community that I think we all love. And that''s as far as I''m going to take this issue. It''s off topic here, and it''s hijacking an important thread.> > > -- > Greg Donald > destiney.com | gregdonald.com-- Marnen Laibow-Koser http://www.marnen.org marnen-sbuyVjPbboAdnm+yROfE0A@public.gmane.org Sent from my iPhone -- Posted via http://www.ruby-forum.com/. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en.
On Jul 23, 1:47 pm, Greg Donald <gdon...-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> wrote:> Truth hurts.So does unnecessary rudeness. Don''t see any patches from you on the tracker by the way... -- miles -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en.
We all know how software engineering is, often we overestimate the amount of effort needed to complete a still abstract task. That''s why agility prays fast, simple iterations, say no, cut the bloat. In the case of Rails, it''s really more passion than deadlines involved, not to mention it is a collaborative remote effort from people around the world, the process will be kind of chaotic, in the good sense. Now, I''m not advocating the approach the core-team uses, sometimes they go over the edge with their arrogancy, although this is changing as more people get into the ''elite'' sphere (i.e getting more diverse), but I do think that this is a direct consequence of all the stupidity that you often see around a highly-hyped topic such as Rails and other IT topics. It is like selecting "friends". There are just too many people that want fast / magical results or nerds that love to troll. Marcelo. On Fri, Jul 23, 2010 at 3:48 PM, yannimac <john.mcaliley-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> wrote:> Just curious, does anyone know if 3.0RC milestone in lighthouse a > correct list of the remaining bugs? I was watching it a few weeks ago > and they removed the milestone, but they added it back a few days > ago.. only 2 tickets in the milestone right now, so it looks like its > close to finished. Maybe that will give you guys a warm fuzzy feeling > about 3.0... I personally don''t care what the version tag says. > > I started converting my most complex app to Rails 3 about a month ago > with the expectation that the code was almost ready based on the blog > from dhh. I was planning on pulling the trigger for the production > switchover when RC was available. But now that I have been running on > beta4, I don''t see the point in waiting. My app has been tested > extensively and is running great on rails 3, and it really doesn''t > matter to me what the version label is if it works. There are going > to be outstanding tickets regardless of what version they are on.. I > mean hell, 2.3.9 has 52 open tickets right now in LH. In my > experience (albeit, limited with one app on Rails 3), the code is > solid and you can figure out workarounds for any minor bug that you > might find. When RC or final 3.0 comes out I don''t really expect to > have to change much (if anything). > > I understand the frustration since dhh said it would be ready in > "days" ;-) And I felt some of that frustration until I finished the > conversion and testing a few days ago. Start using Rails 3 now! You > will not regret it... there are plenty of people using it with no > problems including me. FYI.. I saw gemcutter just completed their > conversion to Rails 3. > > On Jul 23, 4:05 pm, Greg Donald <gdon...-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> wrote: >> On Thu, Jul 22, 2010 at 6:39 PM, Marnen Laibow-Koser >> >> <li...-fsXkhYbjdPsEEoCn2XhGlw@public.gmane.org> wrote: >> > Exactly. That''s what I meant about silence being more of an issue than >> > lateness. >> >> They are in no way being silent and NOTHING is late. Take your whiny >> ass over to the dashboard and you can see EXACTLY what is going on: >> >> https://rails.lighthouseapp.com/dashboard >> >> Bunch of fucking cry-babies. geez. >> >> -- >> Greg Donald >> destiney.com | gregdonald.com > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. > To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en. > >-- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en.
Ops, I meant underestimate* Cheers, Marcelo. On Fri, Jul 23, 2010 at 4:29 PM, Marcelo de Moraes Serpa <celoserpa-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> wrote:> We all know how software engineering is, often we overestimate the > amount of effort needed to complete a still abstract task. That''s why > agility prays fast, simple iterations, say no, cut the bloat. In the > case of Rails, it''s really more passion than deadlines involved, not > to mention it is a collaborative remote effort from people around the > world, the process will be kind of chaotic, in the good sense. > > Now, I''m not advocating the approach the core-team uses, sometimes > they go over the edge with their arrogancy, although this is changing > as more people get into the ''elite'' sphere (i.e getting more diverse), > but I do think that this is a direct consequence of all the stupidity > that you often see around a highly-hyped topic such as Rails and other > IT topics. It is like selecting "friends". There are just too many > people that want fast / magical results or nerds that love to troll. > > Marcelo. > > On Fri, Jul 23, 2010 at 3:48 PM, yannimac <john.mcaliley-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> wrote: >> Just curious, does anyone know if 3.0RC milestone in lighthouse a >> correct list of the remaining bugs? I was watching it a few weeks ago >> and they removed the milestone, but they added it back a few days >> ago.. only 2 tickets in the milestone right now, so it looks like its >> close to finished. Maybe that will give you guys a warm fuzzy feeling >> about 3.0... I personally don''t care what the version tag says. >> >> I started converting my most complex app to Rails 3 about a month ago >> with the expectation that the code was almost ready based on the blog >> from dhh. I was planning on pulling the trigger for the production >> switchover when RC was available. But now that I have been running on >> beta4, I don''t see the point in waiting. My app has been tested >> extensively and is running great on rails 3, and it really doesn''t >> matter to me what the version label is if it works. There are going >> to be outstanding tickets regardless of what version they are on.. I >> mean hell, 2.3.9 has 52 open tickets right now in LH. In my >> experience (albeit, limited with one app on Rails 3), the code is >> solid and you can figure out workarounds for any minor bug that you >> might find. When RC or final 3.0 comes out I don''t really expect to >> have to change much (if anything). >> >> I understand the frustration since dhh said it would be ready in >> "days" ;-) And I felt some of that frustration until I finished the >> conversion and testing a few days ago. Start using Rails 3 now! You >> will not regret it... there are plenty of people using it with no >> problems including me. FYI.. I saw gemcutter just completed their >> conversion to Rails 3. >> >> On Jul 23, 4:05 pm, Greg Donald <gdon...-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> wrote: >>> On Thu, Jul 22, 2010 at 6:39 PM, Marnen Laibow-Koser >>> >>> <li...-fsXkhYbjdPsEEoCn2XhGlw@public.gmane.org> wrote: >>> > Exactly. That''s what I meant about silence being more of an issue than >>> > lateness. >>> >>> They are in no way being silent and NOTHING is late. Take your whiny >>> ass over to the dashboard and you can see EXACTLY what is going on: >>> >>> https://rails.lighthouseapp.com/dashboard >>> >>> Bunch of fucking cry-babies. geez. >>> >>> -- >>> Greg Donald >>> destiney.com | gregdonald.com >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. >> To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk+unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org >> For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en. >> >> >-- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en.
Guys. The name-calling, comparing of e-penises and general abusiveness stops now. You are mature members of the Ruby community and I would expect you to act that way. What ever happened to MINASWAN (Matz Is Nice Always So We Are Nice)? I''d expect this kind of behaviour from a PHP mailing list. I respect the fact that you''ve been told that the release is "Any Time Soon"(tm) and "Real Soon Now, Seriously!"(tm), but things come up that stop the release from happening and postpone it. If you want to know what''s holding up this release, check out the Rails lighthouse and the Bundler tracker. To the best of my knowledge, there will not be a Rails release candidate released until there is a Bundler release candidate. This is purely speculation on my part, but it makes perfect sense to me, and hopefully to you. We''ve all been waiting a while for this release to come out. But what is stopping you from using it right now? What makes the label of "release candidate" so much more appealing when the difference between it and right now could be 1 single documentation commit? There is absolutely nothing stopping you from using it. So I encourage all of you to: 1) Co-operate and act like respectable members of the community like you all really are, not shit-flinging monkeys. and 2) Try porting over one of your applications this weekend to Rails 3. It''s really not that difficult. I have a friend, Chris Darroch, who''s helping me port rboard http://github.com/radar/rboard to Rails 3. Check out the progress on the rails3 branch. As far as I know, we haven''t ran into a single Rails bug. All of our problems are because of something we''ve done or because we needed to use a newer version of a plugin (named_scope instead of just scope, for example). If you want Rails 3 to be the best it can be, you can help by doing this one small thing. Port your application and see if there''s any bugs with it and if they are, report them. I would hope the core team acts in a better attitude than seen in this thread (but it''s understandable, given the ungratefulness witnessed) and help you to help us help you. Enough fighting. I don''t want to be a part of a community where people fight over something so... irrelevant. We are *the best* community on the web. Let''s not tarnish that reputation by repeating the actions of this thread. -- Posted via http://www.ruby-forum.com/. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk+unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en.
I agree with Ryan. We all work in software, we understand that fixed timeframe''s don''t exist, and when they do we end up with Vista type scenarios. To the core team, take your time, get things right.. -- Posted via http://www.ruby-forum.com/. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk+unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en.
Greg, You have been around as long or longer than I have. I would have thought by now you would have risen above the name-calling and generally arrogant attitude. To me, you are a fellow senior member of the community and it greatly saddens me to see somebody of your level acting in such an immature fashion. Telling people to leave the community is one sure fire way for them to do that, and I''m sure deep down you don''t want that to happen because without people we are without community. I''d like to thank you for being one of the few people who are not only building a Rails 3 application, but also one of the few people using Ruby 1.9.2. Please consider the weight of your opinions before blasting those who do not deserve it. -- Posted via http://www.ruby-forum.com/. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk+unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en.
On Sat, Jul 24, 2010 at 8:33 PM, Ryan Bigg <lists-fsXkhYbjdPsEEoCn2XhGlw@public.gmane.org> wrote:> You have been around as long or longer than I have.Cry babies who think the Rails core or community owes them something can go cry somewhere else. Last I checked this is a place for technical discussions, not crying over mismanaged business plans. -- Greg Donald destiney.com | gregdonald.com -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk+unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en.
> Telling people to leave the community is one sure fire way for them to > do that, and I''m sure deep down you don''t want that to happen because > without people we are without community.Not everyone is good for community. I won''t be sad a bit if some leave. Regards, Rimantas -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk+unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en.
Greg Donald wrote:> Cry babies who think the Rails core or community owes them something > can go cry somewhere else.Must you be so arrogant? What gives you the "right" to dictate where people should go? Please act like a respectable member. -- Posted via http://www.ruby-forum.com/. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk+unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en.
> Must you be so arrogant? What gives you the "right" to dictate where > people should go? > > Please act like a respectable member.Care to elaborate why do you have a right to tell others how to act? Regards, Rimantas -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk+unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en.
Rimantas Liubertas wrote:>> Must you be so arrogant? What gives you the "right" to dictate where >> people should go? >> >> Please act like a respectable member. > > Care to elaborate why do you have a right to tell others how to act?I was not telling anybody else how to act. I was simply asking (indicated by the word "Please" at the start of the sentence) that he act like a "respectable member". **Please** do not misconstrue what I write. -- Posted via http://www.ruby-forum.com/. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk+unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en.
> I was not telling anybody else how to act. I was simply asking > (indicated by the word "Please" at the start of the sentence) that he > act like a "respectable member". > > **Please** do not misconstrue what I write.Cannot stop from telling (sorry, "asking") others what to do? When why do you misconstrue what others write? Let''s see: Greg:>> Cry babies who think the Rails core or community owes them something >> can go cry somewhere else.Ryan:>Must you be so arrogant? What gives you the "right" to dictate where >people should go?Nobody dictated anything. Merely a notion that cry babies CAN go cry somewhere else. Regards, Rimantas -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk+unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en.
Rimantas Liubertas wrote:>> Telling people to leave the community is one sure fire way for them to >> do that, and I''m sure deep down you don''t want that to happen because >> without people we are without community. > > Not everyone is good for community. I won''t be sad a bit if some > leave.So (and I guess it''s my turn to potentially misconstrue) what you''re saying is that the people who apparently are interested in the future of Rails should leave? I think this isn''t a very positive attitude to have. These people who are interested in Rails will be the people who tell their friends about it and then they''ll tell their friends about it. These are the people we should be **helping** rather than **berating**. Although I''ve been on that side of the fence too, but I realised it is the wrong side to be on. I understand their whinging is annoying, but acting in some of the ways we''ve seen in this thread is not appropriate, **especially** for core members. We need to work together as a community to make this release the best release it can be. If people want to know what''s holding up the release then we should be pointing them (in a positive fashion, a la Ruby community, not RTFBT (read the f*cking bug tracker) a la PHP/C community) to the Bundler tracker: http://github.com/carlhuda/bundler/issues which at the very top lists all the bugs that need to be fixed before a 1.0 release candidate comes out. I''ll reiterate my opinion: I think that there won''t be a Rails release candidate without a Bundler release candidate. As for the people who aren''t good for this community, I so far see two of them in this entire thread and let me tell you: they aren''t the people who are whining that Rails 3 isn''t out yet. They''re on the other side of that particular fence. Maybe they should leave? -- Posted via http://www.ruby-forum.com/. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk+unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en.
On Monday 26 July 2010, Ryan Bigg wrote:> As for the people who aren''t good for this community, I so far see > two of them in this entire thread and let me tell you: they aren''t > the people who are whining that Rails 3 isn''t out yet. They''re on > the other side of that particular fence. Maybe they should leave?To get an idea of the impact that certain people leaving would have on the community, I suggest writing a script to count the number of contributions to the mailing list that the people involved in this thread have made over the years. Michael -- Michael Schuerig mailto:michael-q5aiKMLteq4b1SvskN2V4Q@public.gmane.org http://www.schuerig.de/michael/ -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk+unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en.
Michael Schuerig wrote:> On Monday 26 July 2010, Ryan Bigg wrote: > >> As for the people who aren''t good for this community, I so far see >> two of them in this entire thread and let me tell you: they aren''t >> the people who are whining that Rails 3 isn''t out yet. They''re on >> the other side of that particular fence. Maybe they should leave? > > To get an idea of the impact that certain people leaving would have on > the community, I suggest writing a script to count the number of > contributions to the mailing list that the people involved in this > thread have made over the years.Again with the e-penis comparisons. Jeez. I personally couldn''t give a crap (and you shouldn''t either) about how many contributions they''ve made to the mailing list. The manner in which they are acting now is not beneficial to the community. If they were even decent members then they''d be decent *all the time*. Making x contributions to the mailing list doesn''t give you the right to act in the manner seen in this thread. If you don''t like that somebody is whinging because Rails 3 isn''t out yet, there are better ways of dealing with it than calling them crybabies, like not replying at all or, as I said earlier, pointing them in a professional manner at the relevant issue tracker. Before you point it out, yes I''ve done this too but I''ve seen the error of my ways and I''m looking to fix them. -- Posted via http://www.ruby-forum.com/. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk+unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en.
My best guess and a heavy dose of speculation for rails 3 rc1 1. Bundler needs to go to rc1 - maybe in a few days with no bugs - maybe in a couple weeks with lots of bugs. That may be all - but.....if that isn''t the last issue here are next couple of issues that seem important. 2. ActiveRecord is about half as fast as it was in rails 2.3.5 - it won''t remain that way. There is a lot of stuff and junk that has to be cleared out of it - it will probably be a couple of weeks before jose valim and possibly wycats turn their attention to a major clean up of active record to get old stuff out of the way. 3. Memory leaks......seems to me that you wouldn''t wan''t to deploy a high traffic site with beta4 and ruby 1.9.2 rc..x... until the memory issues are taken care of. That might be a ruby 1.9.2 issue...it might be a rails issue, that is beyond me at the moment. If I were a betting man, and I''m not, I''d bet we will see rails 3 rc1 within two weeks, and we may see it in the next 4 or 5 days (today being July 25, 2010) This is a (somewhat) educated guess after following the "f*cking bug tracker" (is there just a "bug tracker"?) and reading through what to me would be the most important issues. (And if a bug is on the "bug tracker" how does it get bumped up to the "f"cking bug tracer"??) My best guess at the silence about what is going on? I dunno.... Seems that one blog post or twitter post confirming the above would be all that it would take now and all that it would have taken a month ago just to let people who are interested what is going on. Part of the big push for rails 3 is to expand not only what experts can do with the system, but what beginners and intermediates can do, and to expand the total base of users. This has been the stated goal of the core team over and over. Not communicating is not the way you expand the total base of users. And while whining about "where is it?" doesn''t help, how exaclty does it hurt? To paraphrase New Jersey''s governor...."you must be some of the thinnest skinned people I''ve ever known". If you are on the core team, and you don''t get why people are excited and confused and a little bit irritated at the lack of communication....let me restate that, I don''t know how you could not understand after most of you have given presentation after presentation about what is coming. But this is an opportunity. You build a community by communicating.......see that the root of both words is the same? You build irritation by not communicating. And those of you who want the noobs to take a ticket and fix it and send the patch......how long have you been working in rails...a couple years?? As a member of the ruby and rails community you can''t give others a couple of years to catch up - and in some cases - surpass your ruby and rails skill? And rails itself.....it''s no accident that it took this long to re- factor it. Rails 3 really is a lot of merb, isn''t it? And only because it was rebuilt with lots of new outside blood will it be as good as it''s going to be. All the more to look to the future of what will rails 3 would have been without merb.....and what will rails 4 or 5 be without @whineynoobgenius4 sticking around? So listen up.....@dhh, @wycats, @josevalim, @spastorino etc. You have a giant opportunity to sooth the massive amount of people who have become interested, well, largely by your own efforts to attract their interest. Use that opportunity to communicate and set a foundation for some of the outside blood that is coming in. For every noob that you find irritating and will disappear in a couple of months because they can''t pay their dues, there are 5 others that are irritated and will pay their dues and may be on the rails 4 core team, if you are will to communicate. Just a blog post or twitter post a day from one of you will more than suffice. I''ve noticed a couple of those things in the last day or two and it really helps. And @jeremy/@bitsweet - good for you for speaking your mind, but the FU stuff has a way of coming back to haunt you in things like client negotiations. That post will be here for eons....and you have no idea of all of the people who have seen it and taken note. If I had done that it would keep me up at night. So yes....everybody remain calm. Our long community nightmare is almost over. A few days - couple of weeks at the outside, and people can finish their gems and plugins, and books, and ide''s and projects, and hosting platforms and.....well, you get the idea... There I''ve said it. I''ll go back to the shadows now.... -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk+unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en.
On Sun, Jul 25, 2010 at 5:10 PM, Ryan Bigg <lists-fsXkhYbjdPsEEoCn2XhGlw@public.gmane.org> wrote:> what you''re > saying is that the people who apparently are interested in the future of > Rails should leave?Cry babies who mismanaged their *cough* business plans, based on a never-officially-announced Rails 3 release date, SHOULD go cry somewhere else. This is a technical group and when someone starts crying about how Rails 3 isn''t out yet (oh woe is I), I will continue to remind them to stop crying. They can build their app in Rails 2 and bring it forward later. There''s an ebook for the transition: http://www.railsupgradehandbook.com/ They can build their app in Rails 3 beta 4 and will already be 99% ready for the 3.0 release. Either way, please stop acting like it''s OK for them to continue to cry. Remember: http://www.flickr.com/photos/urbanwide/244690884/ -- Greg Donald destiney.com | gregdonald.com -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk+unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en.
Hey, Thanks for your attempts to put together a coherent answer for what''s happening based upon reading our public utterances. Unfortunately, we don''t always realize that out comments on the bug tracker, on the Rails core list, on Twitter, etc. cannot easily be put together to form a coherent understanding of the current status of things. That said, as you have shown, there is sufficient public information for an enterprising person to figure out what''s happening. I say that purely because we don''t always realize that our scattered communications can come across as silence, and this is something we should work on improving. Comments inline. On Jul 25, 6:23 pm, Oldroy <roy.tsc...-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> wrote:> My best guess and a heavy dose of speculation for rails 3 rc1 > 1. Bundler needs to go to rc1 - maybe in a few days with no bugs - > maybe in a couple weeks with lots of bugs.We''re down to basically no bugs, but this analysis was basically correct. Keep an eye out for an announcement soon.> That may be all - but.....if that isn''t the last issue here are next > couple of issues that seem important. > 2. ActiveRecord is about half as fast as it was in rails 2.3.5 - it > won''t remain that way. There is a lot of stuff and junk that has to be > cleared out of it - it will probably be a couple of weeks before jose > valim and possibly wycats turn their attention to a major clean up of > active record to get old stuff out of the way.Aaron Patterson (of Nokogiri), José and to some degree I have been actively looking at the current state of performance in ActiveRecord. The important open ticket is at https://rails.lighthouseapp.com/projects/8994/tickets/5098-rails-3-beta-4-activerecord-5x-slower-than-rails-235 (which overstates the magnitude of the performance issue, but not the reality of it). I recently commented on the ticket (https:// rails.lighthouseapp.com/projects/8994/tickets/5098-rails-3-beta-4- activerecord-5x-slower-than-rails-235#ticket-5098-60). Aaron is spending some time with Arel, which seems to be the crux of the issue.> 3. Memory leaks......seems to me that you wouldn''t wan''t to deploy a > high traffic site with beta4 and ruby 1.9.2 rc..x... until the memory > issues are taken care of. That might be a ruby 1.9.2 issue...it might > be a rails issue, that is beyond me at the moment.Yes. The two important tickets are at https://rails.lighthouseapp.com/projects/8994/tickets/5042-memory-leak-with-ruby-192-rails-30-beta-4 and https://rails.lighthouseapp.com/projects/8994/tickets/4183-possible-memory-leak-in-rails-3. This is something we''re actively looking into. This is likely a problem in Ruby 1.9, but it may already be resolved (http:// redmine.ruby-lang.org/issues/show/3466#note-3). We''re working with Aman Gupta (memprof), and have so far been unable to reproduce this issue. We are actively trying though.> > If I were a betting man, and I''m not, I''d bet we will see rails 3 rc1 > within two weeks, and we may see it in the next 4 or 5 days (today > being July 25, 2010) > > This is a (somewhat) educated guess after following the "f*cking bug > tracker" (is there just a "bug tracker"?) and reading through what to > me would be the most important issues. (And if a bug is on the "bug > tracker" how does it get bumped up to the "f"cking bug tracer"??) > > My best guess at the silence about what is going on? I dunno.... Seems > that one blog post or twitter post confirming the above would be all > that it would take now and all that it would have taken a month ago > just to let people who are interested what is going on. Part of the > big push for rails 3 is to expand not only what experts can do with > the system, but what beginners and intermediates can do, and to expand > the total base of users. This has been the stated goal of the core > team over and over. Not communicating is not the way you expand the > total base of users. And while whining about "where is it?" doesn''t > help, how exaclty does it hurt? To paraphrase New Jersey''s > governor...."you must be some of the thinnest skinned people I''ve ever > known".Hehe. I think it''s perfectly fine for people to be asking what we''re up to. We may not always be able to give a satisfactory response (lately, it''s been "as soon as we stop getting so many darn bugs"), but it''s a perfectly valid question to ask as often as you''d like.> If you are on the core team, and you don''t get why people are excited > and confused and a little bit irritated at the lack of > communication....let me restate that, I don''t know how you could not > understand after most of you have given presentation after > presentation about what is coming.Yep. We get it loud and clear. We''ve spent a lot of time building something kick-ass, have talked a lot about it, and people want it. We understand that fully. Thanks to the efforts of the community, we''ve gotten a huge inflow of bugs, as well as feedback from plugin authors. This is why RSpec, DataMapper, Haml, etc. are working flawlessly on the Rails 3 betas. We''ve come a long way, and are closing in on the finish-line.> But this is an opportunity. You build a community by > communicating.......see that the root of both words is the same? You > build irritation by not communicating.Absolutely. Again, we''ve communicated in too scattered a fashion for people to put the pieces together reasonably. I''m going to try to resolve that in the weeks ahead.> And those of you who want the noobs to take a ticket and fix it and > send the patch......how long have you been working in rails...a couple > years?? As a member of the ruby and rails community you can''t give > others a couple of years to catch up - and in some cases - surpass > your ruby and rails skill?Absolutely. While I think it''s helpful for us to point people at the bug tracker if there''s interested in contributing, saying "it''ll be done when you start helping" is not actually that helpful. A lot of people on this list, and out there in the world, aren''t necessarily capable of contributing, especially at this stage. The Bugmash project (http://wiki.railsbridge.org/projects/1/wiki/BugMash), which RailsBridge puts on periodically, is extremely helpful at getting new contributors past the initial hurdles. Their contribution guidelines are quite helpful as well.> And rails itself.....it''s no accident that it took this long to re- > factor it. Rails 3 really is a lot of merb, isn''t it? And only because > it was rebuilt with lots of new outside blood will it be as good as > it''s going to be. All the more to look to the future of what will > rails 3 would have been without merb.....and what will rails 4 or 5 be > without @whineynoobgenius4 sticking around?Absolutely. Over the past year or so, we''ve added @tenderlove, @josevalim, and @spastorino and @xaviernoria to the group of people with commit access. Half a dozen or so more (Mikel Lindsaar, Neeraj Singh, Andrew White, Rohit Arondekar, and some others I''m forgetting atm) are actively participating in the day-to-day Rails 3 work. From my vantage point, we have far more activity and regular infusions of new blood today than we did when I started work on Rails 3 in January 2009. And I absolutely agree that continuing to support the participation of new, interested developers is critical to the progress of Rails in the years ahead.> So listen up.....@dhh, @wycats, @josevalim, @spastorino etc. You have > a giant opportunity to sooth the massive amount of people who have > become interested, well, largely by your own efforts to attract their > interest. Use that opportunity to communicate and set a foundation for > some of the outside blood that is coming in. For every noob that you > find irritating and will disappear in a couple of months because they > can''t pay their dues, there are 5 others that are irritated and will > pay their dues and may be on the rails 4 core team, if you are will to > communicate. Just a blog post or twitter post a day from one of you > will more than suffice. I''ve noticed a couple of those things in the > last day or two and it really helps.My own personal position (can''t speak for anyone else on Rails core) is that no noob is too irritating to spend time listening to. In fact, the perspective of new Rails developers is very important, since there are certainly irritations in the process that we can no longer see (as you have pointed out). I''ve said this before, and I''ll say it again: if you are interested in participating in the development of Rails, feel free to email me directly. I spend a fair amount of my day-to-day work communicating with community members, and I don''t mind helping people get up to speed.> And @jeremy/@bitsweet - good for you for speaking your mind, but the > FU stuff has a way of coming back to haunt you in things like client > negotiations. That post will be here for eons....and you have no idea > of all of the people who have seen it and taken note. If I had done > that it would keep me up at night. > > So yes....everybody remain calm. Our long community nightmare is > almost over. A few days - couple of weeks at the outside, and people > can finish their gems and plugins, and books, and ide''s and projects, > and hosting platforms and.....well, you get the idea...Many of those who are working on gems, plugins, books, IDEs and hosting platforms have taken the drawn-out process of the Rails 3 beta period to provide extremely useful feedback about the current state of things. The feedback of David Chelimsky (rspec, on exposed testing APIs), Nathan Weisenbaum (haml, on templating APIs), several people at New Relic (on instrumentation), the folks at Engine Yard and Heroku (on bundler) and Sam Ruby (Agile Web Development on Rails, on general backwards compatibility) have been critical to ensuring that the final release of Rails 3 is up to the level of polish that you''ve come to expect from Rails. Thank you all.> > There I''ve said it. I''ll go back to the shadows now....Thank you for your lengthy and articulate response. You are correct: we need to communicate with the community in a single, public place. This will be resolved. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en.
On Monday 26 July 2010, Ryan Bigg wrote:> Michael Schuerig wrote: > > On Monday 26 July 2010, Ryan Bigg wrote: > >> As for the people who aren''t good for this community, I so far see > >> two of them in this entire thread and let me tell you: they aren''t > >> the people who are whining that Rails 3 isn''t out yet. They''re on > >> the other side of that particular fence. Maybe they should leave? > > > > To get an idea of the impact that certain people leaving would have > > on the community, I suggest writing a script to count the number > > of contributions to the mailing list that the people involved in > > this thread have made over the years. > > Again with the e-penis comparisons. Jeez.I think you''re getting this wrong.> I personally couldn''t give a crap (and you shouldn''t either) about > how many contributions they''ve made to the mailing list. The manner > in which they are acting now is not beneficial to the community. If > they were even decent members then they''d be decent *all the time*. > Making x contributions to the mailing list doesn''t give you the > right to act in the manner seen in this thread.I''ll put it more plainly. I wouldn''t want people to leave who put a lot of effort into answering questions no matter how silly or misguided they are (the questions!). That doesn''t make what these people say and do right all the time and I don''t have to like it all the time.> If you don''t like that somebody is whinging because Rails 3 isn''t out > yet, [...]Don''t get me started whinging about things related to Rails. No matter, we all in here are apparently still using it. Michael -- Michael Schuerig mailto:michael-q5aiKMLteq4b1SvskN2V4Q@public.gmane.org http://www.schuerig.de/michael/ -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk+unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en.
Look, let''s just point out the elephant in the room. Most people think Jeremy is kind of a dick. He wrote a dickish post. We''re all still alive. Get over it. -- Posted via http://www.ruby-forum.com/. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk+unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en.