Rails spinoffs - Sep 2006 - Drop Zone Indicator with Scriptaculous

I see that the ticket is open for drop zone indicators on the rails
website, but was wondering if anyone has created a succesful
implementation.  I''ve been trying to work with the code and have been
continually frustrated with the implementation.  I have it
working...somewhat...but my dropzones still don''t exactly
"know" where
to go.  I compared implementation with dojo and scriptaculous doesn''t
do a very good job of having the draggable know what position its on
over a droppable.  If anyone has figured this out, I would be more than
greatful for the help.  Otherwise, if their are any entrepreneurs out
there, who can work quickly, I''d be more than willing to pay you
instead of a guy off rent a coder to implement this for me, and of
course give it back for free to scriptaculous.  I just really want this
functionality for my website and if someone can solve it to the level
of netvibes or google homepage (which I''m sure some of you can),
I''ll
offer up a good price.  If you''re interested, and looking to make some
extra money on the side, please send me an email.

PS I sent an email to the list as well, but am not sure if it made it,
excuse me if you get it on the list as well, thanks again!


--~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
"Ruby on Rails: Spinoffs" group.
To post to this group, send email to
rubyonrails-spinoffs-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
rubyonrails-spinoffs-unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org
For more options, visit this group at
http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-spinoffs
-~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---

On 9/6/06, souzha-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org
<souzha-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>
wrote:
>
> I see that the ticket is open for drop zone indicators on the rails
> website, but was wondering if anyone has created a succesful
> implementation.  I''ve been trying to work with the code and have
been
> continually frustrated with the implementation.  I have it
> working...somewhat...but my dropzones still don''t exactly
"know" where
> to go.
Are drop zones supposed to move?


Do you want the drop zones to be highlighted at the start of a drag?

Something like this?

http://peter.michaux.ca/examples/donut-dragdrop/donut-dragdrop.html

Peter

--~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
"Ruby on Rails: Spinoffs" group.
To post to this group, send email to
rubyonrails-spinoffs-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
rubyonrails-spinoffs-unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org
For more options, visit this group at
http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-spinoffs
-~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---

Peter - check out www.netvibes.com - thats kind of what I had in mind.
Do you think you could do something like that?

-Justin


--~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
"Ruby on Rails: Spinoffs" group.
To post to this group, send email to
rubyonrails-spinoffs-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
rubyonrails-spinoffs-unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org
For more options, visit this group at
http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-spinoffs
-~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---

Hi Justin,

[offlist]
> Peter - check out www.netvibes.com - thats kind of what I had in mind.
I''ve never looked at netvibes before. I like that interface.
> Do you think you could do something like that?
Yes I could build something like that. I wouldn''t want to use
Scriptaculous though. I don''t like it much or Prototype.js because
they have maintainance headaches and are very buggy. I virtually
rewrote the Scriptaculous dragdrop library and eventually gave up
because the dependance on Prototype.js is such a problem. Using
Scriptaculous would allow that type of interface to be written very
quickly but I think you wouldn''t be happy in the long run.

I would need to know more specifics about your application and
requirements to estimate the time to build something for you. Are you
on a deadline?

Peter



On 9/7/06, souzha-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org
<souzha-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>
wrote:
>
>
> -Justin
>
>
> >
>
--~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
"Ruby on Rails: Spinoffs" group.
To post to this group, send email to
rubyonrails-spinoffs-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
rubyonrails-spinoffs-unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org
For more options, visit this group at
http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-spinoffs
-~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---

Am 07.09.2006 um 20:05 schrieb Peter Michaux:
> . I wouldn''t want to use
> Scriptaculous though. I don''t like it much or Prototype.js because
> they have maintainance headaches and are very buggy.
That sounds like spreading ye good ol'' FUD.

How about sharing the headaches and we''ll look into it?

-Thomas

--~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
"Ruby on Rails: Spinoffs" group.
To post to this group, send email to
rubyonrails-spinoffs-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
rubyonrails-spinoffs-unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org
For more options, visit this group at
http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-spinoffs
-~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---

Agreed. Peter has done this before. Peter, I have also run into problems
with scripty in the past... performance issues with drag and drop. But when
I engineered my solutions to those problems I simply posted them here (lazy
loading techniques plus the ghosting/floating clone technique for making
Draggables be able to escape their scrollable containers)... (yes I
didn''t
submit properly to the patch channels but shared with the community
nontheless)... instead of doing nothing but gripe about having to solve some
issues I was having because of my project''s requirements.

The kicker is, this is the support list for scriptaculous and prototype.

If you want a better framework, either do your own original work and make
your own mailing list, or contribute constructively to this one.

Obviously you have something to offer along the lines of creative solutions.
But this framework is not nearly as bad as you are trying to make it out to
be, in fact as I''ve said before, many very intelligent people (and js
experts to boot) love the framework, myself included... hence the community
here.

And if it''s not perfect, it will only improve with constructive input
from
the community supporting it.

On 9/7/06, Thomas Fuchs <t.fuchs-moWQItti3gBl57MIdRCFDg@public.gmane.org>
wrote:
>
>
> Am 07.09.2006 um 20:05 schrieb Peter Michaux:
> > . I wouldn''t want to use
> > Scriptaculous though. I don''t like it much or Prototype.js
because
> > they have maintainance headaches and are very buggy.
>
> That sounds like spreading ye good ol'' FUD.
>
> How about sharing the headaches and we''ll look into it?
>
> -Thomas
>
> >
>

-- 
Ryan Gahl
Application Development Consultant
Athena Group, Inc.
Inquire: 1-888-919-8700 x2903
Blog: http://www.someElement.com


--~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
"Ruby on Rails: Spinoffs" group.
To post to this group, send email to
rubyonrails-spinoffs-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
rubyonrails-spinoffs-unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org
For more options, visit this group at
http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-spinoffs
-~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---

Hi Thomas,

On 9/7/06, Thomas Fuchs <t.fuchs-moWQItti3gBl57MIdRCFDg@public.gmane.org>
wrote:
>
> Am 07.09.2006 um 20:05 schrieb Peter Michaux:
> > . I wouldn''t want to use
> > Scriptaculous though. I don''t like it much or Prototype.js
because
> > they have maintainance headaches and are very buggy.
>
> That sounds like spreading ye good ol'' FUD.
It isn''t FUD and I think that term is overused now as a blanket way of
dismissing critisicm.

> How about sharing the headaches and we''ll look into it?

I think that prototype.js and scriptaculous have lots of good ideas
and information in them. They are also good because they move forward
into cool new features quickly. I use them as a reference to find some
tricky spots with browser incompatibiliies.

The heavy use of navigator.userAgent is my biggest concern with
maintainance problems. I avoid navigator.userAgent like the plague.
Using it usually means revisting code over and over again as different
browsers spoof as other browsers.
> How about sharing the headaches and we''ll look into it?
I believe 100% that is true for you. You are involved and friendly.
But prototype.js is developed in a very secretive way and I don''t know
if Sam every even looks at trac. I don''t trust the code in
prototype.js and that is based on experience using it and reading it.
It is fine if others want to use it but it just isn''t for me which is
all I said in the previous email. If tickets to prototype.js were
acted upon I would likely have sent in more. However they are not and
I''ve decided to leave prototype even for my Rails app development.

Peter

--~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
"Ruby on Rails: Spinoffs" group.
To post to this group, send email to
rubyonrails-spinoffs-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
rubyonrails-spinoffs-unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org
For more options, visit this group at
http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-spinoffs
-~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---

Hi Ryan,

On 9/7/06, Ryan Gahl <ryan.gahl-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>
wrote:
> Agreed. Peter has done this before.
And I regret that it caused such a commotion. I didn''t mean to do it
again today. I intended that email to be off list so that I wouldn''t
appear to be spreading negativity to the masses. I was just expressing
my opinion.

> instead of doing nothing but gripe about having to solve some
> issues I was having because of my project''s requirements.
The implication is I do nothing but gripe. I don''t think that is true
but you may see it that way.

> The kicker is, this is the support list for scriptaculous and prototype.
and rails.

> If you want a better framework, either do your own original work and make
> your own mailing list, or contribute constructively to this one.
Just yesterday I contributed a patch for prototype helpers in rails. I
don''t even use prototype. The patch wasn''t the work of genious
and
Thomas had to fix my patch up a bit but I did trigger action on
something that was going to break with the release of Rails 1.2. So
that could be counted as constructive contribution.

> But this framework is not nearly as bad as you are trying to make it out to
> be, in fact as I''ve said before, many very intelligent people (and
js
> experts to boot) love the framework, myself included... hence the community
> here.
I don''t think experts love the use of navigator.userAgent. If fact, it
is probably the one thing they all agree should never be used.

http://jibbering.com/faq/faq_notes/not_browser_detect.html
http://www.quirksmode.org/js/support.html

> And if it''s not perfect,
It probably isn''t even realisitic to shoot for perfect. But better is
a nice goal.

> it will only improve with constructive input from
> the community supporting it.
. . . and involvement from the developer with the community so that
input make it to the code base.

I''m sure I''ve seemed unfriendly to some on this list but it
isn''t
really the truth. I care about quality code in my projects and
prototype.js seem to be adding features instead of improving the ones
it already has.

Peter

--~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
"Ruby on Rails: Spinoffs" group.
To post to this group, send email to
rubyonrails-spinoffs-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
rubyonrails-spinoffs-unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org
For more options, visit this group at
http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-spinoffs
-~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---

On 9/7/06, Peter Michaux
<petermichaux-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>
wrote:
>
> On 9/7/06, Thomas Fuchs
<t.fuchs-moWQItti3gBl57MIdRCFDg@public.gmane.org> wrote:
>
> > How about sharing the headaches and we''ll look into it?
>
> The heavy use of navigator.userAgent is my biggest concern with
> maintainance problems. I avoid navigator.userAgent like the plague.
> Using it usually means revisting code over and over again as different
> browsers spoof as other browsers.
It has been two weeks since I posted this concern and DHH''s blog
article today inspired me to be persistant with what is good
criticism. I''m curious why there is a lack of interest in removing
navigator.userAgent from Scriptaculous. Is it because Scriptaculous
developers do not understand how unreliable this technique is? Is it
because working on some browsers for the time being is good enough?
This is "the low hanging fruit" to make Scriptaculous much better as
browser sniffing is the biggest no-no in creating good JavaScript.

http://jibbering.com/faq/faq_notes/not_browser_detect.html

http://www.quirksmode.org/js/support.html

Peter

--~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
"Ruby on Rails: Spinoffs" group.
To post to this group, send email to
rubyonrails-spinoffs-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
rubyonrails-spinoffs-unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org
For more options, visit this group at
http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-spinoffs
-~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---

Anything new on this topic? I am trying to have same behaviour.


--~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
"Ruby on Rails: Spinoffs" group.
To post to this group, send email to
rubyonrails-spinoffs-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
rubyonrails-spinoffs-unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org
For more options, visit this group at
http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-spinoffs
-~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---

I''m curious if you have submitted a patch to remove the use of
navigator.userAgent?

Brandon

On 9/20/06, Peter Michaux
<petermichaux-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>
wrote:
>
> On 9/7/06, Peter Michaux
<petermichaux-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> wrote:
> >
> > On 9/7/06, Thomas Fuchs
<t.fuchs-moWQItti3gBl57MIdRCFDg@public.gmane.org> wrote:
> >
> > > How about sharing the headaches and we''ll look into it?
> >
> > The heavy use of navigator.userAgent is my biggest concern with
> > maintainance problems. I avoid navigator.userAgent like the plague.
> > Using it usually means revisting code over and over again as different
> > browsers spoof as other browsers.
>
> It has been two weeks since I posted this concern and DHH''s blog
> article today inspired me to be persistant with what is good
> criticism. I''m curious why there is a lack of interest in removing
> navigator.userAgent from Scriptaculous. Is it because Scriptaculous
> developers do not understand how unreliable this technique is? Is it
> because working on some browsers for the time being is good enough?
> This is "the low hanging fruit" to make Scriptaculous much better
as
> browser sniffing is the biggest no-no in creating good JavaScript.
>
> http://jibbering.com/faq/faq_notes/not_browser_detect.html
>
> http://www.quirksmode.org/js/support.html
>
> Peter
>
> >
>
--~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
"Ruby on Rails: Spinoffs" group.
To post to this group, send email to
rubyonrails-spinoffs-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
rubyonrails-spinoffs-unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org
For more options, visit this group at
http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-spinoffs
-~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---

On 9/20/06, Brandon Aaron
<brandon.aaron-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>
wrote:
>
> I''m curious if you have submitted a patch to remove the use of
> navigator.userAgent?
Nope. I''d like to know if the patches will be considered first.

Peter

--~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
"Ruby on Rails: Spinoffs" group.
To post to this group, send email to
rubyonrails-spinoffs-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
rubyonrails-spinoffs-unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org
For more options, visit this group at
http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-spinoffs
-~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---

On 9/21/06, Peter Michaux
<petermichaux-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>
wrote:
>
> Nope. I''d like to know if the patches will be considered first.
I can understand that. However, you can guarantee that your patches
will not be considered by not writing them. It is obvious that you are
not going to get a very positive response from the list by just
bringing it up every so often. The SVN activity has picked up lately
and I would highly suggest adding a patch+tests. Even if it is just
removing one navigator.userAgnet sniff at a time.

Brandon

--~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
"Ruby on Rails: Spinoffs" group.
To post to this group, send email to
rubyonrails-spinoffs-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
rubyonrails-spinoffs-unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org
For more options, visit this group at
http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-spinoffs
-~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---

Am 20.09.2006 um 20:00 schrieb Peter Michaux:
> I''m curious why there is a lack of interest in removing
> navigator.userAgent from Scriptaculous. Is it because Scriptaculous
> developers do not understand how unreliable this technique is?
It''s because it just works the way it is-- it''s obvously not
causing
problems
in the "real world", or else we''d see tons of tickets on
this. As we
officially
support IE 6+, Firefox 1+ and Safari 1+ we don''t have the problem of
not
being able to sniff all browsers this way (as the main argument goes).
> This is "the low hanging fruit" to make Scriptaculous much better
as
> browser sniffing is the biggest no-no in creating good JavaScript.
Well, many things have been named the biggest no-no.
Give me a yes-yes (patch+tests) and we''ll all be happy. :)

-Thomas

--~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
"Ruby on Rails: Spinoffs" group.
To post to this group, send email to
rubyonrails-spinoffs-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
rubyonrails-spinoffs-unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org
For more options, visit this group at
http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-spinoffs
-~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---

On 9/22/06, Thomas Fuchs <t.fuchs-moWQItti3gBl57MIdRCFDg@public.gmane.org>
wrote:
>
> Am 20.09.2006 um 20:00 schrieb Peter Michaux:
>
> > I''m curious why there is a lack of interest in removing
> > navigator.userAgent from Scriptaculous. Is it because Scriptaculous
> > developers do not understand how unreliable this technique is?
>
> It''s because it just works the way it is-- it''s obvously
not causing
> problems
> in the "real world", or else we''d see tons of tickets on
this. As we
> officially
> support IE 6+, Firefox 1+ and Safari 1+ we don''t have the problem
of not
> being able to sniff all browsers this way (as the main argument goes).
>
> > This is "the low hanging fruit" to make Scriptaculous much
better as
> > browser sniffing is the biggest no-no in creating good JavaScript.
>
> Well, many things have been named the biggest no-no.
> Give me a yes-yes (patch+tests) and we''ll all be happy. :)
Hi Thomas,

Thanks for the information. This has been added to my todo list.

Peter

--~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
"Ruby on Rails: Spinoffs" group.
To post to this group, send email to
rubyonrails-spinoffs-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
rubyonrails-spinoffs-unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org
For more options, visit this group at
http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-spinoffs
-~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---

Here is my solution
http://tanrikut.blogspot.com/2006/09/scriptaculous-patch.html

But I recently saw a posting of a patch in this group.

Tankut


--~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
"Ruby on Rails: Spinoffs" group.
To post to this group, send email to
rubyonrails-spinoffs-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
rubyonrails-spinoffs-unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org
For more options, visit this group at
http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-spinoffs
-~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---