Rails core - Nov 2012 - Suggestion: `before_save on: :create` should either work or raise an exception

There''s a small inconsistency in ActiveRecord''s callback
syntax that has
tripped me up before. It wouldn''t be a big deal, but it can lead to a 
silent failure. I''d like to suggest that it either be made consistent
or be
made to fail loudly.

The issue is that to do something before validating, but only when 
creating, you use `before_validation on: :create`, but to do something 
before saving, but only when creating, you use `before_create`. 

I have tried to use `before_save on: :create`, and it does not produce an 
error, but it does something unexpected: it saves before create **and** 
before update. This isn''t really something an application''s
tests would
catch, I don''t think.

I propose one of the following changes:

1. `before_save on: :create` and `before_save on: :update` could be 
supported (and the same for `after_save` and `after_commit`)
2. Using `before_save on: :create` and the like could raise an exception 
saying either "this isn''t supported" or "this
isn''t supported but will be
eventually"
3. The `before_validation on: :create` syntax could be dropped in favor of 
`before_save_validation` and `before_create_validation`, so that all a 
user''s hook declarations are either successful or get `NoMethodError`

Thoughts?

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+1 for alternative 1, "`before_save on: :create` and `before_save on:
:update` could be supported (and the same for `after_save` and
`after_commit`)".


On 10 November 2012 11:51, Nathan Long <nathanmlong@gmail.com> wrote:
> There''s a small inconsistency in ActiveRecord''s callback
syntax that has
> tripped me up before. It wouldn''t be a big deal, but it can lead
to a
> silent failure. I''d like to suggest that it either be made
consistent or be
> made to fail loudly.
>
> The issue is that to do something before validating, but only when
> creating, you use `before_validation on: :create`, but to do something
> before saving, but only when creating, you use `before_create`.
>
> I have tried to use `before_save on: :create`, and it does not produce an
> error, but it does something unexpected: it saves before create **and**
> before update. This isn''t really something an
application''s tests would
> catch, I don''t think.
>
> I propose one of the following changes:
>
> 1. `before_save on: :create` and `before_save on: :update` could be
> supported (and the same for `after_save` and `after_commit`)
> 2. Using `before_save on: :create` and the like could raise an exception
> saying either "this isn''t supported" or "this
isn''t supported but will be
> eventually"
> 3. The `before_validation on: :create` syntax could be dropped in favor of
> `before_save_validation` and `before_create_validation`, so that all a
> user''s hook declarations are either successful or get
`NoMethodError`
>
> Thoughts?
>
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-- 
Allam Marcos Campanini Matsubara

skype: allam.matsubara
twitter: @allam_matsubara
Phone: +55 (41) 8847-8677

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What is the difference between before_create :foo and before_save :foo, on:
:create?

I think this is more a documentation issue and maybe (2.) can help to avoid
confusion.

I don''t like (1.) and (3.).

Rafael Mendonça França
http://twitter.com/rafaelfranca
https://github.com/rafaelfranca



On Tue, Nov 13, 2012 at 12:24 AM, Allam Marcos Campanini Matsubara <
allam.matsubara@gmail.com> wrote:
> +1 for alternative 1, "`before_save on: :create` and `before_save on:
> :update` could be supported (and the same for `after_save` and
> `after_commit`)".
>
>
> On 10 November 2012 11:51, Nathan Long <nathanmlong@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> There''s a small inconsistency in ActiveRecord''s
callback syntax that has
>> tripped me up before. It wouldn''t be a big deal, but it can
lead to a
>> silent failure. I''d like to suggest that it either be made
consistent or be
>> made to fail loudly.
>>
>> The issue is that to do something before validating, but only when
>> creating, you use `before_validation on: :create`, but to do something
>> before saving, but only when creating, you use `before_create`.
>>
>> I have tried to use `before_save on: :create`, and it does not produce
an
>> error, but it does something unexpected: it saves before create **and**
>> before update. This isn''t really something an
application''s tests would
>> catch, I don''t think.
>>
>> I propose one of the following changes:
>>
>> 1. `before_save on: :create` and `before_save on: :update` could be
>> supported (and the same for `after_save` and `after_commit`)
>> 2. Using `before_save on: :create` and the like could raise an
exception
>> saying either "this isn''t supported" or "this
isn''t supported but will be
>> eventually"
>> 3. The `before_validation on: :create` syntax could be dropped in favor
>> of `before_save_validation` and `before_create_validation`, so that all
a
>> user''s hook declarations are either successful or get
`NoMethodError`
>>
>> Thoughts?
>>
>> --
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
Groups
>> "Ruby on Rails: Core" group.
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>>
>
>
>
> --
> Allam Marcos Campanini Matsubara
>
> skype: allam.matsubara
> twitter: @allam_matsubara
> Phone: +55 (41) 8847-8677
>
>
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>
> I think this is more a documentation issue and maybe (2.) can help to 
> avoid confusion.

The downside of (2.) is committing to keep an inconsistent API. Rails is a 
large framework to learn already. It''s great to have documentation, but
it''s even better when things are so consistent and obvious that you
don''t
need the docs. That''s optimizing for programmer happiness. :)

A possible advantage of (1.) is that is that it could be extended to hook 
into user-defined events, like `before_save on: :archive`, or 
`before_validation on: :publish`. But that''s a separate discussion.

A possible advantage of (3.) is that it''s more discoverable: 
`before_save_validation` and `before_create_validation` would be listed in 
`@model.methods` and in Rdoc.

On Monday, November 12, 2012 9:47:43 PM UTC-5, Rafael Mendonça França
wrote:
>
> What is the difference between before_create :foo and before_save :foo, 
> on: :create? 
>
> I think this is more a documentation issue and maybe (2.) can help to 
> avoid confusion.
>
> I don''t like (1.) and (3.).
>
> Rafael Mendonça França
> http://twitter.com/rafaelfranca
> https://github.com/rafaelfranca
>
>
>
> On Tue, Nov 13, 2012 at 12:24 AM, Allam Marcos Campanini Matsubara <
> allam.m...@gmail.com <javascript:>> wrote:
>
>> +1 for alternative 1, "`before_save on: :create` and `before_save
on:
>> :update` could be supported (and the same for `after_save` and 
>> `after_commit`)".
>>  
>>
>> On 10 November 2012 11:51, Nathan Long <natha...@gmail.com
<javascript:>>wrote:
>>
>>> There''s a small inconsistency in ActiveRecord''s
callback syntax that has
>>> tripped me up before. It wouldn''t be a big deal, but it
can lead to a
>>> silent failure. I''d like to suggest that it either be made
consistent or be
>>> made to fail loudly.
>>>
>>> The issue is that to do something before validating, but only when 
>>> creating, you use `before_validation on: :create`, but to do
something
>>> before saving, but only when creating, you use `before_create`. 
>>>
>>> I have tried to use `before_save on: :create`, and it does not
produce
>>> an error, but it does something unexpected: it saves before create
**and**
>>> before update. This isn''t really something an
application''s tests would
>>> catch, I don''t think.
>>>
>>> I propose one of the following changes:
>>>
>>> 1. `before_save on: :create` and `before_save on: :update` could be
>>> supported (and the same for `after_save` and `after_commit`)
>>> 2. Using `before_save on: :create` and the like could raise an
exception
>>> saying either "this isn''t supported" or
"this isn''t supported but will be
>>> eventually"
>>> 3. The `before_validation on: :create` syntax could be dropped in
favor
>>> of `before_save_validation` and `before_create_validation`, so that
all a
>>> user''s hook declarations are either successful or get
`NoMethodError`
>>>
>>> Thoughts?
>>>
>>> -- 
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
>>> Groups "Ruby on Rails: Core" group.
>>> To view this discussion on the web visit 
>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rubyonrails-core/-/CU3L9lEhvTkJ.
>>> To post to this group, send email to
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>>> rubyonrails-co...@googlegroups.com <javascript:>.
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>>> http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-core?hl=en.
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -- 
>> Allam Marcos Campanini Matsubara
>>
>> skype: allam.matsubara
>> twitter: @allam_matsubara
>> Phone: +55 (41) 8847-8677
>>
>>
>>  -- 
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Groups
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>>
>
>
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The problem with (1.) is that before_save :foo, on: :create and before_create
:foo do the same thing. For me this cause more confusion.

About (3.) being listed in RDoc we can do the same right now and explicitly
say that before_save doesn''t accept :on option. Like a said this is
more a
documentation issue.

Rafael Mendonça França
http://twitter.com/rafaelfranca
https://github.com/rafaelfranca



On Tue, Nov 13, 2012 at 8:58 AM, Nathan Long <nathanmlong@gmail.com>
wrote:
> I think this is more a documentation issue and maybe (2.) can help to
>> avoid confusion.
>
>
> The downside of (2.) is committing to keep an inconsistent API. Rails is a
> large framework to learn already. It''s great to have
documentation, but
> it''s even better when things are so consistent and obvious that
you don''t
> need the docs. That''s optimizing for programmer happiness. :)
>
> A possible advantage of (1.) is that is that it could be extended to hook
> into user-defined events, like `before_save on: :archive`, or
> `before_validation on: :publish`. But that''s a separate
discussion.
>
> A possible advantage of (3.) is that it''s more discoverable:
> `before_save_validation` and `before_create_validation` would be listed in
> `@model.methods` and in Rdoc.
>
> On Monday, November 12, 2012 9:47:43 PM UTC-5, Rafael Mendonça França
> wrote:
>
>> What is the difference between before_create :foo and before_save :foo,
>> on: :create?
>>
>> I think this is more a documentation issue and maybe (2.) can help to
>> avoid confusion.
>>
>> I don''t like (1.) and (3.).
>>
>> Rafael Mendonça França
>> http://twitter.com/**rafaelfranca
<http://twitter.com/rafaelfranca>
>> https://github.com/**rafaelfranca
<https://github.com/rafaelfranca>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Nov 13, 2012 at 12:24 AM, Allam Marcos Campanini Matsubara <
>> allam.m...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> +1 for alternative 1, "`before_save on: :create` and
`before_save on:
>>> :update` could be supported (and the same for `after_save` and
>>> `after_commit`)".
>>>
>>>
>>> On 10 November 2012 11:51, Nathan Long <natha...@gmail.com>
wrote:
>>>
>>>>  There''s a small inconsistency in
ActiveRecord''s callback syntax that
>>>> has tripped me up before. It wouldn''t be a big deal,
but it can lead to a
>>>> silent failure. I''d like to suggest that it either be
made consistent or be
>>>> made to fail loudly.
>>>>
>>>> The issue is that to do something before validating, but only
when
>>>> creating, you use `before_validation on: :create`, but to do
something
>>>> before saving, but only when creating, you use `before_create`.
>>>>
>>>> I have tried to use `before_save on: :create`, and it does not
produce
>>>> an error, but it does something unexpected: it saves before
create **and**
>>>> before update. This isn''t really something an
application''s tests would
>>>> catch, I don''t think.
>>>>
>>>> I propose one of the following changes:
>>>>
>>>> 1. `before_save on: :create` and `before_save on: :update`
could be
>>>> supported (and the same for `after_save` and `after_commit`)
>>>> 2. Using `before_save on: :create` and the like could raise an
>>>> exception saying either "this isn''t
supported" or "this isn''t supported but
>>>> will be eventually"
>>>> 3. The `before_validation on: :create` syntax could be dropped
in favor
>>>> of `before_save_validation` and `before_create_validation`, so
that all a
>>>> user''s hook declarations are either successful or get
`NoMethodError`
>>>>
>>>> Thoughts?
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the
Google
>>>> Groups "Ruby on Rails: Core" group.
>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit
https://groups.google.com/d/**
>>>>
msg/rubyonrails-core/-/**CU3L9lEhvTkJ<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rubyonrails-core/-/CU3L9lEhvTkJ>
>>>> .
>>>> To post to this group, send email to
rubyonra...@googlegroups.**com.
>>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
rubyonrails-co...@**
>>>> googlegroups.com.
>>>>
>>>> For more options, visit this group at
http://groups.google.com/**
>>>>
group/rubyonrails-core?hl=en<http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-core?hl=en>
>>>> .
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Allam Marcos Campanini Matsubara
>>>
>>> skype: allam.matsubara
>>> twitter: @allam_matsubara
>>> Phone: +55 (41) 8847-8677
>>>
>>>
>>>  --
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>>> Groups "Ruby on Rails: Core" group.
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>>>
>>> For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/**
>>>
group/rubyonrails-core?hl=en<http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-core?hl=en>
>>> .
>>>
>>
>>  --
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validate :foo, presence: true
and
validate_presence_of :foo

Also do the same thing.  This is a slightly different use case but I''m
+1 for making before_save consistent with before_validation as far as an :on
option goes. This has tripped me up before as well.

Thanks,

Adam Hunter  

Sent from my iPhone

On Nov 13, 2012, at 7:38, Rafael Mendonça França <rafaelmfranca@gmail.com>
wrote:
> The problem with (1.) is that before_save :foo, on: :create and
before_create :foo do the same thing. For me this cause more confusion.
> 
> About (3.) being listed in RDoc we can do the same right now and explicitly
say that before_save doesn''t accept :on option. Like a said this is
more a documentation issue.
> 
> 
> Rafael Mendonça França
> http://twitter.com/rafaelfranca
> https://github.com/rafaelfranca
> 
> 
> 
> On Tue, Nov 13, 2012 at 8:58 AM, Nathan Long <nathanmlong@gmail.com>
wrote:
>>> I think this is more a documentation issue and maybe (2.) can help
to avoid confusion.
>> 
>> The downside of (2.) is committing to keep an inconsistent API. Rails
is a large framework to learn already. It''s great to have
documentation, but it''s even better when things are so consistent and
obvious that you don''t need the docs. That''s optimizing for
programmer happiness. :)
>> 
>> A possible advantage of (1.) is that is that it could be extended to
hook into user-defined events, like `before_save on: :archive`, or
`before_validation on: :publish`. But that''s a separate discussion.
>> 
>> A possible advantage of (3.) is that it''s more discoverable:
`before_save_validation` and `before_create_validation` would be listed in
`@model.methods` and in Rdoc.
>> 
>> On Monday, November 12, 2012 9:47:43 PM UTC-5, Rafael Mendonça França
wrote:
>>> What is the difference between before_create :foo and before_save
:foo, on: :create?
>>> 
>>> I think this is more a documentation issue and maybe (2.) can help
to avoid confusion.
>>> 
>>> I don''t like (1.) and (3.).
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Rafael Mendonça França
>>> http://twitter.com/rafaelfranca
>>> https://github.com/rafaelfranca
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Tue, Nov 13, 2012 at 12:24 AM, Allam Marcos Campanini Matsubara
<allam.m...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> +1 for alternative 1, "`before_save on: :create` and
`before_save on: :update` could be supported (and the same for `after_save` and
`after_commit`)".
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> On 10 November 2012 11:51, Nathan Long
<natha...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> There''s a small inconsistency in
ActiveRecord''s callback syntax that has tripped me up before. It
wouldn''t be a big deal, but it can lead to a silent failure.
I''d like to suggest that it either be made consistent or be made to
fail loudly.
>>>>> 
>>>>> The issue is that to do something before validating, but
only when creating, you use `before_validation on: :create`, but to do something
before saving, but only when creating, you use `before_create`.
>>>>> 
>>>>> I have tried to use `before_save on: :create`, and it does
not produce an error, but it does something unexpected: it saves before create
**and** before update. This isn''t really something an
application''s tests would catch, I don''t think.
>>>>> 
>>>>> I propose one of the following changes:
>>>>> 
>>>>> 1. `before_save on: :create` and `before_save on: :update`
could be supported (and the same for `after_save` and `after_commit`)
>>>>> 2. Using `before_save on: :create` and the like could raise
an exception saying either "this isn''t supported" or
"this isn''t supported but will be eventually"
>>>>> 3. The `before_validation on: :create` syntax could be
dropped in favor of `before_save_validation` and `before_create_validation`, so
that all a user''s hook declarations are either successful or get
`NoMethodError`
>>>>> 
>>>>> Thoughts?
>>>>> -- 
>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the
Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Core" group.
>>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rubyonrails-core/-/CU3L9lEhvTkJ.
>>>>> To post to this group, send email to
rubyonra...@googlegroups.com.
>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
rubyonrails-co...@googlegroups.com.
>>>>> 
>>>>> For more options, visit this group at
http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-core?hl=en.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> -- 
>>>> Allam Marcos Campanini Matsubara
>>>> 
>>>> skype: allam.matsubara
>>>> twitter: @allam_matsubara
>>>> Phone: +55 (41) 8847-8677
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> -- 
>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the
Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Core" group.
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>>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
rubyonrails-co...@googlegroups.com.
>>>> 
>>>> For more options, visit this group at
http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-core?hl=en.
>> -- 
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> 
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Rafael - Now I see what you mean; you don''t want two names for the same
thing. I agree.

What I was trying to say is let''s pick a consistent callback syntax, 
support that, and deprecate the others. This doesn''t have to be done 
quickly; I just think it''s a good direction to head.

On Tuesday, November 13, 2012 8:26:16 AM UTC-5, Adam
wrote:
>
> validate :foo, presence: true
> and
> validate_presence_of :foo
>
> Also do the same thing.  This is a slightly different use case but
I''m +1
> for making before_save consistent with before_validation as far as an :on 
> option goes. This has tripped me up before as well. 
>
> Thanks,
>
> Adam Hunter  
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Nov 13, 2012, at 7:38, Rafael Mendonça França
<rafael...@gmail.com<javascript:>>
> wrote:
>
> The problem with (1.) is that before_save :foo, on: :create and
before_create
> :foo do the same thing. For me this cause more confusion. 
>
> About (3.) being listed in RDoc we can do the same right now and 
> explicitly say that before_save doesn''t accept :on option. Like a
said
> this is more a documentation issue.
>
> Rafael Mendonça França
> http://twitter.com/rafaelfranca
> https://github.com/rafaelfranca
>
>
>
> On Tue, Nov 13, 2012 at 8:58 AM, Nathan Long
<natha...@gmail.com<javascript:>
> > wrote:
>
>> I think this is more a documentation issue and maybe (2.) can help to 
>>> avoid confusion.
>>
>>
>> The downside of (2.) is committing to keep an inconsistent API. Rails
is
>> a large framework to learn already. It''s great to have
documentation, but
>> it''s even better when things are so consistent and obvious
that you don''t
>> need the docs. That''s optimizing for programmer happiness. :)
>>
>> A possible advantage of (1.) is that is that it could be extended to
hook
>> into user-defined events, like `before_save on: :archive`, or 
>> `before_validation on: :publish`. But that''s a separate
discussion.
>>
>> A possible advantage of (3.) is that it''s more discoverable: 
>> `before_save_validation` and `before_create_validation` would be listed
in
>> `@model.methods` and in Rdoc.
>>
>> On Monday, November 12, 2012 9:47:43 PM UTC-5, Rafael Mendonça França 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> What is the difference between before_create :foo and before_save
:foo,
>>> on: :create? 
>>>
>>> I think this is more a documentation issue and maybe (2.) can help
to
>>> avoid confusion.
>>>
>>> I don''t like (1.) and (3.).
>>>
>>> Rafael Mendonça França
>>> http://twitter.com/**rafaelfranca
<http://twitter.com/rafaelfranca>
>>> https://github.com/**rafaelfranca
<https://github.com/rafaelfranca>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Nov 13, 2012 at 12:24 AM, Allam Marcos Campanini Matsubara
<
>>> allam.m...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> +1 for alternative 1, "`before_save on: :create` and
`before_save on:
>>>> :update` could be supported (and the same for `after_save` and 
>>>> `after_commit`)".
>>>>  
>>>>
>>>> On 10 November 2012 11:51, Nathan Long
<natha...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>  There''s a small inconsistency in
ActiveRecord''s callback syntax that
>>>>> has tripped me up before. It wouldn''t be a big
deal, but it can lead to a
>>>>> silent failure. I''d like to suggest that it either
be made consistent or be
>>>>> made to fail loudly.
>>>>>
>>>>> The issue is that to do something before validating, but
only when
>>>>> creating, you use `before_validation on: :create`, but to
do something
>>>>> before saving, but only when creating, you use
`before_create`.
>>>>>
>>>>> I have tried to use `before_save on: :create`, and it does
not produce
>>>>> an error, but it does something unexpected: it saves before
create **and**
>>>>> before update. This isn''t really something an
application''s tests would
>>>>> catch, I don''t think.
>>>>>
>>>>> I propose one of the following changes:
>>>>>
>>>>> 1. `before_save on: :create` and `before_save on: :update`
could be
>>>>> supported (and the same for `after_save` and
`after_commit`)
>>>>> 2. Using `before_save on: :create` and the like could raise
an
>>>>> exception saying either "this isn''t
supported" or "this isn''t supported but
>>>>> will be eventually"
>>>>> 3. The `before_validation on: :create` syntax could be
dropped in
>>>>> favor of `before_save_validation` and
`before_create_validation`, so that
>>>>> all a user''s hook declarations are either
successful or get `NoMethodError`
>>>>>
>>>>> Thoughts?
>>>>>
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>>>>> .
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -- 
>>>> Allam Marcos Campanini Matsubara
>>>>
>>>> skype: allam.matsubara
>>>> twitter: @allam_matsubara
>>>> Phone: +55 (41) 8847-8677
>>>>
>>>>
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>>>
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