On Mon, Feb 29, 2016 at 6:17 PM, John Chambers <jmc at r-project.org> wrote:> The Wikipedia statement may be a bit misleading. > > S was never open source. Source versions would only have been available with a nondisclosure agreement, and relatively few copies would have been distributed in source. There was a small but valuable "beta test" network, mainly university statistics departments.So it was free (or at least distribution cost only), but with a nondisclosure agreement? Did binaries circulate freely, legally or otherwise? Okay, guess I'll read the book. I'm sure I saw S source early in my career (1990 or so), possibly on an early Sun 3/60 system or even the on-the-way-out Whitechapel MG-1 workstations.> And two shameless plugs: > > 1. there is a chapter on the history of all this in my forthcoming book on "Extending R"That will sit nicely on the shelf next to "Extending The S System" that Allan Wilks gave me :)> PS: somehow "historical" would be less unnerving than "archeological"At least I didn't say palaeontological. Thanks for the response. Barry
> On 29 Feb 2016, at 20:54 pm, Barry Rowlingson <b.rowlingson at lancaster.ac.uk> wrote: > > On Mon, Feb 29, 2016 at 6:17 PM, John Chambers <jmc at r-project.org> wrote: >> The Wikipedia statement may be a bit misleading. >> >> S was never open source. Source versions would only have been available with a nondisclosure agreement, and relatively few copies would have been distributed in source. There was a small but valuable "beta test" network, mainly university statistics departments. > > So it was free (or at least distribution cost only), but with a > nondisclosure agreement? Did binaries circulate freely, legally or > otherwise? Okay, guess I'll read the book. >I don?t think I have seen S source, but some other Bell software has license of this type: C THIS INFORMATION IS PROPRIETARY AND IS THE C PROPERTY OF BELL TELEPHONE LABORATORIES, C INCORPORATED. ITS REPRODUCTION OR DISCLOSURE C TO OTHERS, EITHER ORALLY OR IN WRITING, IS C PROHIBITED WITHOUT WRITTEN PRERMISSION OF C BELL LABORATORIES. C IT IS UNDERSTOOD THAT THESE MATERIALS WILL BE USED FOR C EDUCATIONAL AND INSTRUCTIONAL PURPOSES ONLY. (Obviously in FORTRAN) So the code was ?open? in the sense that you could see the code, and it had to be ?open", because source code was the only way to distribute software before the era of widespread platforms allowing binary distributions (such as VAX/VMS or Intel/MS-DOS). However, the license in effect says that although you can see the code, you are not even allowed to tell anybody that you have seen it. I don?t know how this is interpreted currently, but you may ask the current owner, Nokia. Cheers, Jari Oksanen
> On 29 Feb 2016, at 19:54 , Barry Rowlingson <b.rowlingson at lancaster.ac.uk> wrote: > >> PS: somehow "historical" would be less unnerving than "archeological" > > At least I didn't say palaeontological.So John should feel more like stone age than dinosaur? (Some portion of this must be a fortune candidate!) -- Peter Dalgaard, Professor, Center for Statistics, Copenhagen Business School Solbjerg Plads 3, 2000 Frederiksberg, Denmark Phone: (+45)38153501 Office: A 4.23 Email: pd.mes at cbs.dk Priv: PDalgd at gmail.com
On Tue, 1 Mar 2016, peter dalgaard wrote:> >> On 29 Feb 2016, at 19:54 , Barry Rowlingson <b.rowlingson at lancaster.ac.uk> wrote: >> >>> PS: somehow "historical" would be less unnerving than "archeological" >> >> At least I didn't say palaeontological. > > So John should feel more like stone age than dinosaur? > > (Some portion of this must be a fortune candidate!):-) Unless anyone objects: R> fortune(373) Barry Rowlingson: I've been unable to locate any version of S online. Does anyone have a copy, somewhere, rusting away on an old hard disk or slowly flaking off a tape? [...] Obviously this would be for archaeological purposes. John Chambers: [...] somehow "historical" would be less unnerving than "archeological". Barry Rowlingson: At least I didn't say palaeontological. -- Barry Rowlingson and John Chambers (on the availability of the source code for early versions of S) R-devel (February 2016)> -- > Peter Dalgaard, Professor, > Center for Statistics, Copenhagen Business School > Solbjerg Plads 3, 2000 Frederiksberg, Denmark > Phone: (+45)38153501 > Office: A 4.23 > Email: pd.mes at cbs.dk Priv: PDalgd at gmail.com > > > > > > > > > >