Puppet users - May 2011 - "Open Source Team" planning meeting summary

As promised yesterday, here are the results of our first planning
meeting.

Right now, we''re loosely following a Scrum style of development. With
the current one-week iteration''s backlog outlined below.

 * #2128 - Allow arbitrary fact as node_name identifier

 * #7224 - Bad english: hostname was not match with the server
           certificate

 * #4416 - Resources cannot be used on the run where they are synced

 * Package type V2 (apt)

 * Package type V2 (dpkg)

 * Package type V2 (aptitude)

We''re trying to work on things that we know have annoyed people using
Puppet. We are very open to any suggestions on what to add to the
following iterations, so please vote on tickets in Redmine[1], and
comment on these updates.

The "Package type V2" items don''t currently have any tickets
in Redmine,
but the goal will be to clean up the current package type in the hopes
of having a clean, "modern" and well tested type, and set of providers
that people can use as a reference when writing their own.  If the
experiment in refactoring the package type, and the apt, aptitude, and
dpkg providers goes well, we plan on continuing on to the rest of the
providers.

In addition to the iteration backlog, #7670 and #7681 have become
priorities that we will be addressing as soon as we can.

 * #7670 - operatingsystem fact incorrect after clear on Ubuntu

 * #7681 - Regression, arrays and variables

[1] http://projects.puppetlabs.com

-- 
Jacob Helwig

On Thu, 26 May 2011 09:38:28 -0700, Jacob Helwig wrote:
> 
> As promised yesterday, here are the results of our first planning
> meeting.
> 
> Right now, we''re loosely following a Scrum style of development.
With
> the current one-week iteration''s backlog outlined below.
> 
>  * #2128 - Allow arbitrary fact as node_name identifier
> 
>  * #7224 - Bad english: hostname was not match with the server
>            certificate
> 
>  * #4416 - Resources cannot be used on the run where they are synced
> 
>  * Package type V2 (apt)
> 
>  * Package type V2 (dpkg)
> 
>  * Package type V2 (aptitude)
> 
> We''re trying to work on things that we know have annoyed people
using
> Puppet. We are very open to any suggestions on what to add to the
> following iterations, so please vote on tickets in Redmine[1], and
> comment on these updates.
> 
> The "Package type V2" items don''t currently have any
tickets in Redmine,
> but the goal will be to clean up the current package type in the hopes
> of having a clean, "modern" and well tested type, and set of
providers
> that people can use as a reference when writing their own.  If the
> experiment in refactoring the package type, and the apt, aptitude, and
> dpkg providers goes well, we plan on continuing on to the rest of the
> providers.
> 
> In addition to the iteration backlog, #7670 and #7681 have become
> priorities that we will be addressing as soon as we can.
> 
>  * #7670 - operatingsystem fact incorrect after clear on Ubuntu
> 
>  * #7681 - Regression, arrays and variables
> 
> [1] http://projects.puppetlabs.com
> 
Just a quick reminder that we''re going to have our planning meeting
tomorrow.  If you''d like to influence what we end up prioritizing for
ourselves for the coming week, please speak up.

#7670, and #7681 have both been fixed, and merged into the appropriate
branches to be released.

I''ve had one suggestion of working on #650 (Puppet replaces conf
directories when they are symlinks).

Right now, the back-log looks the same as it did last wednesday due to
the two "blockers" popping up, and the long holiday weekend here in
the
States.

-- 
Jacob Helwig

On Tue, May 31, 2011 at 5:08 PM, Jacob Helwig <jacob@puppetlabs.com>
wrote:
> On Thu, 26 May 2011 09:38:28 -0700, Jacob Helwig wrote:
> >
> > As promised yesterday, here are the results of our first planning
> > meeting.
> >
> > Right now, we''re loosely following a Scrum style of
development. With
> > the current one-week iteration''s backlog outlined below.
> >
> >  * #2128 - Allow arbitrary fact as node_name identifier
> >
> >  * #7224 - Bad english: hostname was not match with the server
> >            certificate
> >
> >  * #4416 - Resources cannot be used on the run where they are synced
> >
> >  * Package type V2 (apt)
> >
> >  * Package type V2 (dpkg)
> >
> >  * Package type V2 (aptitude)
> >
> > We''re trying to work on things that we know have annoyed
people using
> > Puppet. We are very open to any suggestions on what to add to the
> > following iterations, so please vote on tickets in Redmine[1], and
> > comment on these updates.
> >
> > The "Package type V2" items don''t currently have
any tickets in Redmine,
> > but the goal will be to clean up the current package type in the hopes
> > of having a clean, "modern" and well tested type, and set of
providers
> > that people can use as a reference when writing their own.  If the
> > experiment in refactoring the package type, and the apt, aptitude, and
> > dpkg providers goes well, we plan on continuing on to the rest of the
> > providers.
> >
> > In addition to the iteration backlog, #7670 and #7681 have become
> > priorities that we will be addressing as soon as we can.
> >
> >  * #7670 - operatingsystem fact incorrect after clear on Ubuntu
> >
> >  * #7681 - Regression, arrays and variables
> >
> > [1] http://projects.puppetlabs.com
> >
>
> Just a quick reminder that we''re going to have our planning
meeting
> tomorrow.  If you''d like to influence what we end up prioritizing
for
> ourselves for the coming week, please speak up.
>
I could be wrong, but I imagine people would quite like to see this issue
fixed:

http://projects.puppetlabs.com/issues/7127

where the prerun_command exiting non-zero doesn''t block the run, and I
believe the postrun_command doesn''t change the report status to failed.




>
> #7670, and #7681 have both been fixed, and merged into the appropriate
> branches to be released.
>
> I''ve had one suggestion of working on #650 (Puppet replaces conf
> directories when they are symlinks).
>
> Right now, the back-log looks the same as it did last wednesday due to
> the two "blockers" popping up, and the long holiday weekend here
in the
> States.
>
> --
> Jacob Helwig
>
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-- 
Nigel Kersten
Product, Puppet Labs
@nigelkersten

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On 5/31/2011 7:19 PM, Nigel Kersten wrote:
> 
> 
> On Tue, May 31, 2011 at 5:08 PM, Jacob Helwig <jacob@puppetlabs.com
> <mailto:jacob@puppetlabs.com>> wrote:
> 
>     On Thu, 26 May 2011 09:38:28 -0700, Jacob Helwig wrote:
>     >
>     > As promised yesterday, here are the results of our first planning
>     > meeting.
>     >
>     > Right now, we''re loosely following a Scrum style of
development. With
>     > the current one-week iteration''s backlog outlined below.
>     >
>     >  * #2128 - Allow arbitrary fact as node_name identifier
>     >
>     >  * #7224 - Bad english: hostname was not match with the server
>     >            certificate
>     >
>     >  * #4416 - Resources cannot be used on the run where they are
synced
>     >
>     >  * Package type V2 (apt)
>     >
>     >  * Package type V2 (dpkg)
>     >
>     >  * Package type V2 (aptitude)
>     >
>     > We''re trying to work on things that we know have annoyed
people using
>     > Puppet. We are very open to any suggestions on what to add to the
>     > following iterations, so please vote on tickets in Redmine[1], and
>     > comment on these updates.
>     >
>     > The "Package type V2" items don''t currently
have any tickets in
>     Redmine,
>     > but the goal will be to clean up the current package type in the
hopes
>     > of having a clean, "modern" and well tested type, and
set of providers
>     > that people can use as a reference when writing their own.  If the
>     > experiment in refactoring the package type, and the apt, aptitude,
and
>     > dpkg providers goes well, we plan on continuing on to the rest of
the
>     > providers.
>     >
>     > In addition to the iteration backlog, #7670 and #7681 have become
>     > priorities that we will be addressing as soon as we can.
>     >
>     >  * #7670 - operatingsystem fact incorrect after clear on Ubuntu
>     >
>     >  * #7681 - Regression, arrays and variables
>     >
>     > [1] http://projects.puppetlabs.com
>     >
> 
>     Just a quick reminder that we''re going to have our planning
meeting
>     tomorrow.  If you''d like to influence what we end up
prioritizing for
>     ourselves for the coming week, please speak up.
> 
> 
> I could be wrong, but I imagine people would quite like to see this
> issue fixed:
> 
> http://projects.puppetlabs.com/issues/7127
> 
> where the prerun_command exiting non-zero doesn''t block the run,
and I
> believe the postrun_command doesn''t change the report status to
failed.
> 
> 
> 
>  
> 
> 
>     #7670, and #7681 have both been fixed, and merged into the appropriate
>     branches to be released.
> 
>     I''ve had one suggestion of working on #650 (Puppet replaces
conf
>     directories when they are symlinks).
> 
>     Right now, the back-log looks the same as it did last wednesday due to
>     the two "blockers" popping up, and the long holiday weekend
here in the
>     States.
> 

Apologize for not having a bug number for this, but I recall that
web-of-trust (intermediate CAs) did not work with Puppet as is.  If
that''s true, that''s a long-standing one I''d like to
see fixed...
-Alan

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On Tue, 31 May 2011 20:56:47 -0600, Alan Sparks wrote:
> 
> > On Tue, May 31, 2011 at 5:08 PM, Jacob Helwig <jacob@puppetlabs.com
> > <mailto:jacob@puppetlabs.com>> wrote:
> > 
> >     Just a quick reminder that we''re going to have our
planning meeting
> >     tomorrow.  If you''d like to influence what we end up
prioritizing for
> >     ourselves for the coming week, please speak up.
> > 
> 
> Apologize for not having a bug number for this, but I recall that
> web-of-trust (intermediate CAs) did not work with Puppet as is.  If
> that''s true, that''s a long-standing one I''d like
to see fixed...
> -Alan
> 
I think you''re talking about #3143.

http://projects.puppetlabs.com/issues/3143

-- 
Jacob Helwig

On 5/31/2011 9:07 PM, Jacob Helwig wrote:
> On Tue, 31 May 2011 20:56:47 -0600, Alan Sparks wrote:
>>
>>> On Tue, May 31, 2011 at 5:08 PM, Jacob Helwig
<jacob@puppetlabs.com
>>> <mailto:jacob@puppetlabs.com>> wrote:
>>>
>>>     Just a quick reminder that we''re going to have our
planning meeting
>>>     tomorrow.  If you''d like to influence what we end up
prioritizing for
>>>     ourselves for the coming week, please speak up.
>>>
>>
>> Apologize for not having a bug number for this, but I recall that
>> web-of-trust (intermediate CAs) did not work with Puppet as is.  If
>> that''s true, that''s a long-standing one I''d
like to see fixed...
>> -Alan
>>
> 
> I think you''re talking about #3143.
> 
> http://projects.puppetlabs.com/issues/3143
> 
Looks right... we need that where I work, is a killer if that has to
wait for a 2.7ish.mumble release...
-Alan


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On Tue, 31 May 2011 22:01:15 -0600, Alan Sparks wrote:
> 
> On 5/31/2011 9:07 PM, Jacob Helwig wrote:
> > On Tue, 31 May 2011 20:56:47 -0600, Alan Sparks wrote:
> >>
> >>> On Tue, May 31, 2011 at 5:08 PM, Jacob Helwig
<jacob@puppetlabs.com
> >>> <mailto:jacob@puppetlabs.com>> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>     Just a quick reminder that we''re going to have
our planning meeting
> >>>     tomorrow.  If you''d like to influence what we end
up prioritizing for
> >>>     ourselves for the coming week, please speak up.
> >>>
> >>
> >> Apologize for not having a bug number for this, but I recall that
> >> web-of-trust (intermediate CAs) did not work with Puppet as is. 
If
> >> that''s true, that''s a long-standing one
I''d like to see fixed...
> >> -Alan
> >>
> > 
> > I think you''re talking about #3143.
> > 
> > http://projects.puppetlabs.com/issues/3143
> > 
> 
> Looks right... we need that where I work, is a killer if that has to
> wait for a 2.7ish.mumble release...
> -Alan
> 
Mind elaborating?  I have no idea which version we''ll end up targeting
for #3143 when we do end up working on it.

-- 
Jacob Helwig

Writing this is groups.google.com''s interface, pardon the formatting.

Some bugs that have been causing us a bit of pain that I would really be 
happy if they actually got fixed:

#3910 - Server is not authoritative over client environment when specified 
in an ENC

This particular bug has been open for a year, and it''s potentially
dangerous
bug (data disclosure, and indadvertantly deleting files). We''d like to
see
this one fixed since we can have about 20 environments going at a time and 
getting files from other environments is really quite annoying. At least 
it''s gotten some attention in the past month or so.

#5517 - behavior change within 2.6 makes it impossible to override class 
parameters of "included" parametrized classes

This bug is almost singlehandedly preventing us from using parameterized 
classes. We honestly can''t move to 2.7 (and the changes in scope)
without
this being fixed. Reason being, we cannot include a global class on all 
nodes that has settings for all nodes and then override the class with 
updated parameters to the class for a specific set of nodes. Parameterized 
classes, in theory are such a good idea, but the implementation and 
attention after the fact seems to be severely lacking. It seems to get 
pushed back every minor revision for some reason, but it would be great if 
it got fixed.


Would be happy to provide use-cases or clarification if necessary. 



-Andrew


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Andrew Forgue wrote:
> #5517 - behavior change within 2.6 makes it impossible to override class
> parameters of "included" parametrized classes
> 
> This bug is almost singlehandedly preventing us from using parameterized
> classes. We honestly can''t move to 2.7 (and the changes in scope)
> without this being fixed. Reason being, we cannot include a global class
> on all nodes that has settings for all nodes and then override the class
> with updated parameters to the class for a specific set of nodes.
> Parameterized classes, in theory are such a good idea, but the
> implementation and attention after the fact seems to be severely
> lacking. It seems to get pushed back every minor revision for some
> reason, but it would be great if it got fixed.
> 
I think Dan, Jeff et al and I would +1 #5517.

Regards

James


-- 
James Turnbull
Puppet Labs
1-503-734-8571

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On May 31, 2011, at 9:01 PM, Alan Sparks wrote:
> On 5/31/2011 9:07 PM, Jacob Helwig wrote:
>> On Tue, 31 May 2011 20:56:47 -0600, Alan Sparks wrote:
>>> 
>>>> On Tue, May 31, 2011 at 5:08 PM, Jacob Helwig
<jacob@puppetlabs.com
>>>> <mailto:jacob@puppetlabs.com>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>    Just a quick reminder that we''re going to have our
planning meeting
>>>>    tomorrow.  If you''d like to influence what we end
up prioritizing for
>>>>    ourselves for the coming week, please speak up.
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> Apologize for not having a bug number for this, but I recall that
>>> web-of-trust (intermediate CAs) did not work with Puppet as is.  If
>>> that''s true, that''s a long-standing one
I''d like to see fixed...
>>> -Alan
>>> 
>> 
>> I think you''re talking about #3143.
>> 
>> http://projects.puppetlabs.com/issues/3143
>> 
> 
> Looks right... we need that where I work, is a killer if that has to
> wait for a 2.7ish.mumble release...
> -Alan
I hope this gets resolved too, but the bug ticket says it was pushed to 2.8.x

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On Wed, Jun 1, 2011 at 1:20 AM, Patrick <kc7zzv@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> On May 31, 2011, at 9:01 PM, Alan Sparks wrote:
>
> > On 5/31/2011 9:07 PM, Jacob Helwig wrote:
> >> On Tue, 31 May 2011 20:56:47 -0600, Alan Sparks wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> On Tue, May 31, 2011 at 5:08 PM, Jacob Helwig
<jacob@puppetlabs.com
> >>>> <mailto:jacob@puppetlabs.com>> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>    Just a quick reminder that we''re going to have
our planning meeting
> >>>>    tomorrow.  If you''d like to influence what we
end up prioritizing
> for
> >>>>    ourselves for the coming week, please speak up.
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>> Apologize for not having a bug number for this, but I recall
that
> >>> web-of-trust (intermediate CAs) did not work with Puppet as
is.  If
> >>> that''s true, that''s a long-standing one
I''d like to see fixed...
> >>> -Alan
> >>>
> >>
> >> I think you''re talking about #3143.
> >>
> >> http://projects.puppetlabs.com/issues/3143
> >>
> >
> > Looks right... we need that where I work, is a killer if that has to
> > wait for a 2.7ish.mumble release...
> > -Alan
>
> I hope this gets resolved too, but the bug ticket says it was pushed to
> 2.8.x

I asked the core developers to spend some time investigating it a while ago
to see if we could fix it in 2.6.x, but the report was that this would
require significant enough plumbing changes that it needs to be done for a
feature release, and we didn''t get it into 2.7.x

If there''s an appropriate middle ground we can hit for a solution,
I''d love
to target it earlier if possible.

-- 
Nigel Kersten
Product, Puppet Labs
@nigelkersten

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I''d suggest looking into http://projects.puppetlabs.com/issues/3238 if
you
have a chance. It''s been open a long time and is an inconvenience when
using
stored configs.

--
Nathan Clemons
http://www.livemocha.com
The worlds largest online language learning community



On Tue, May 31, 2011 at 5:08 PM, Jacob Helwig <jacob@puppetlabs.com>
wrote:
> On Thu, 26 May 2011 09:38:28 -0700, Jacob Helwig wrote:
> >
> > As promised yesterday, here are the results of our first planning
> > meeting.
> >
> > Right now, we''re loosely following a Scrum style of
development. With
> > the current one-week iteration''s backlog outlined below.
> >
> >  * #2128 - Allow arbitrary fact as node_name identifier
> >
> >  * #7224 - Bad english: hostname was not match with the server
> >            certificate
> >
> >  * #4416 - Resources cannot be used on the run where they are synced
> >
> >  * Package type V2 (apt)
> >
> >  * Package type V2 (dpkg)
> >
> >  * Package type V2 (aptitude)
> >
> > We''re trying to work on things that we know have annoyed
people using
> > Puppet. We are very open to any suggestions on what to add to the
> > following iterations, so please vote on tickets in Redmine[1], and
> > comment on these updates.
> >
> > The "Package type V2" items don''t currently have
any tickets in Redmine,
> > but the goal will be to clean up the current package type in the hopes
> > of having a clean, "modern" and well tested type, and set of
providers
> > that people can use as a reference when writing their own.  If the
> > experiment in refactoring the package type, and the apt, aptitude, and
> > dpkg providers goes well, we plan on continuing on to the rest of the
> > providers.
> >
> > In addition to the iteration backlog, #7670 and #7681 have become
> > priorities that we will be addressing as soon as we can.
> >
> >  * #7670 - operatingsystem fact incorrect after clear on Ubuntu
> >
> >  * #7681 - Regression, arrays and variables
> >
> > [1] http://projects.puppetlabs.com
> >
>
> Just a quick reminder that we''re going to have our planning
meeting
> tomorrow.  If you''d like to influence what we end up prioritizing
for
> ourselves for the coming week, please speak up.
>
> #7670, and #7681 have both been fixed, and merged into the appropriate
> branches to be released.
>
> I''ve had one suggestion of working on #650 (Puppet replaces conf
> directories when they are symlinks).
>
> Right now, the back-log looks the same as it did last wednesday due to
> the two "blockers" popping up, and the long holiday weekend here
in the
> States.
>
> --
> Jacob Helwig
>
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Hi

First, I would like to thank for that open process and the commitment
you are putting into that. And I''m really excited that there is now a
team dedicated to address the things in core puppet. Awesome! Thanks!

However, as this thread seemed to become more and more a "Please, fix
that bug"-list, I would like to tell my story as well:
>> I hope this gets resolved too, but the bug ticket says it was pushed to
>> 2.8.x
> 
> 
> I asked the core developers to spend some time investigating it a while ago
> to see if we could fix it in 2.6.x, but the report was that this would
> require significant enough plumbing changes that it needs to be done for a
> feature release, and we didn''t get it into 2.7.x
> 
> If there''s an appropriate middle ground we can hit for a solution,
I''d love
> to target it earlier if possible.
in the last two days I was bootstrapping a new puppet environment at a
customer''s place and I ran into some wtf''s of problems I had
forgotten
or I haven''t encountered so far.

But for nearly every issue I could find a (long) outstanding bug report.
Most of them are about puppet acting in a unexpected way aka ignoring
the principle of last surprise. As usual there are people who started to
depend on that behavior and now we need to make it configurable and the
idea is to wait for a new major release so we can introduce a behavior
change while switching to the more expected way.

None of them seem to be fixed so far for 2.7, so my assumption is that
we have to wait till the next one. :/

Often there are workarounds available or they are not that severe, so
one can live with them. But still: things are broken.

I know we are a bit late to the 2.7 release game, but I still would like
to raise my concerns that to me it sometimes looks like a lot of these
bugs seem to get forgotten more and more and are getting burried within
progress and the available workarounds. But still: things are broken.

I''m going to comment on these bug reports.

One of the major ones I found is that filebucketing is broken (since a
year):

#5362 [1] & #3807 [2] - I really had to do the following to get
filebuckets to the master:

filebucket{main:
  path => false,
  server => puppet,
}
File{ backup => main }

filebucket''s got recently some improvements like getting a diff and
displaying the buckets in the dashboard is quite a nice feature. But the
underlying puppet feature is broken for over a year?

Imho this should get the attention it deserves for 2.7.

Actually, I wanted to do here another "rant" about ENC acting weird,
but
while doing more research I actually found a couple of other bug reports
all talking about the same and also one where it looks like this is
going to be fixed. But the history of back and forth is quite amazing :/ ...

So I will link all these bug reports together so you can decide which
one is actually still valid.

I hope you understand my point, otherwise please ask!

Thanks!

~pete

[1] http://projects.puppetlabs.com/issues/5362
[2] http://projects.puppetlabs.com/issues/3807
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