Nut upsuser - Jan 2020 - System with MGE UPS shuts down too early

On 1/25/20 10:53 AM, Georgi D. Sotirov wrote:
> OK, so yesterday evening I done a real test cutting of the power to 
> the UPS. And it went good... the UPS supported my server for 28:50 
> minutes (i.e. the expected runtime with this load), before forcing 
> shutdown. The batteries could still hold as charge was 30 % with about 
> 15 minutes run time. And the UPS did hold for another full 10 minutes 
> before powering off. These are the relevant lines from /var/log/ups:
>
> 20200124 201318 32 0.0 12 [OB] NA 0.0
> 20200124 201323 30 0.0 13 [ALARM OB LB] NA 0.0
> 20200124 201328 30 0.0 13 [FSD ALARM OB LB] NA 0.0
> 20200124 201333 30 0.0 13 [FSD ALARM OB LB] NA 0.0
> 20200124 201338 30 0.0 13 [FSD ALARM OB LB] NA 0.0
> 20200124 201340 30 0.0 13 [FSD ALARM OB LB] NA 0.0
that looks perfectly fine

>
> The server was shutdown properly, but for some reason it did not power 
> off. I saw an error from umount about busy file system, but I'm sure 
> this doesn't always happen.
the error is related to your linux system, not to nut

>
> With everything powered off, I extracted the original batteries to 
> check them and measure the voltage. The batteries are Leoch DJW12-9.0 
> with one of them at 12.57 V and the other at 12.64 V (measured without 
> load after the discharge).
That's... surprisingly well, assuming your multimeter indicates correct 
values. I would have expected values well below 12V


>
> And this morning there was again a short power failure (not more than 
> 30 minutes, because the router connected to the battery power from the 
> UPS did hold up). With batteries charged up to 91% the UPS supported 
> the server for just 07:10 minutes and forced shutdown with 69% battery 
> charge and over 20 minutes of run time...
>
> 20200125 021123 70 0.0 16 [OB] NA 0.0
> 20200125 021128 69 0.0 16 [FSD ALARM OB LB] NA 0.0
> 20200125 021133 69 0.0 16 [FSD ALARM OB LB] NA 0.0
> 20200125 021138 69 0.0 16 [FSD ALARM OB LB] NA 0.0
> 20200125 021143 69 0.0 16 [FSD ALARM OB LB] NA 0.0
> 20200125 021148 69 0.0 16 [FSD ALARM OB LB] NA 0.0
> 20200125 021150 69 0.0 16 [FSD ALARM OB LB] NA 0.0
>
> So, it seems to me that my UPS forces shutdown pretty randomly. Why 
> the UPS is not waiting for the preset low battery charge value of 15%? 
> What is actually driving this FSD ALARM and LB signal when batteries 
> for sure could hold up more?

Can you please show us all the configuration files ? I can only suspect 
that there is something wrong there because (from a hardware point of 
view) the UPS behaves very very well, according to your tests and logs.


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Hello.

I sometimes encountered batteries that were ok, but at times one of the
cells would develop a random short/open, therefore reducing the real
capacity even if voltage reading was ok. In the absence of a battery load
tester i would suggest running multiple tests with a load (car headlight
bulb or similar) on the battery outside the ups. This is to eliminate the
suspicion of a software or UPS unit fault.

Alex.

On Mon, 27 Jan 2020, 02:53 Manuel Wolfshant, <wolfy at nobugconsulting.ro>
wrote:
> On 1/25/20 10:53 AM, Georgi D. Sotirov wrote:
>
> OK, so yesterday evening I done a real test cutting of the power to the
> UPS. And it went good... the UPS supported my server for 28:50 minutes
> (i.e. the expected runtime with this load), before forcing shutdown. The
> batteries could still hold as charge was 30 % with about 15 minutes run
> time. And the UPS did hold for another full 10 minutes before powering off.
> These are the relevant lines from /var/log/ups:
>
> 20200124 201318 32 0.0 12 [OB] NA 0.0
> 20200124 201323 30 0.0 13 [ALARM OB LB] NA 0.0
> 20200124 201328 30 0.0 13 [FSD ALARM OB LB] NA 0.0
> 20200124 201333 30 0.0 13 [FSD ALARM OB LB] NA 0.0
> 20200124 201338 30 0.0 13 [FSD ALARM OB LB] NA 0.0
> 20200124 201340 30 0.0 13 [FSD ALARM OB LB] NA 0.0
>
> that looks perfectly fine
>
>
>
> The server was shutdown properly, but for some reason it did not power
> off. I saw an error from umount about busy file system, but I'm sure
this
> doesn't always happen.
>
> the error is related to your linux system, not to nut
>
>
>
> With everything powered off, I extracted the original batteries to check
> them and measure the voltage. The batteries are Leoch DJW12-9.0 with one of
> them at 12.57 V and the other at 12.64 V (measured without load after the
> discharge).
>
> That's... surprisingly well, assuming your multimeter indicates correct
> values. I would have expected values well below 12V
>
>
>
>
> And this morning there was again a short power failure (not more than 30
> minutes, because the router connected to the battery power from the UPS did
> hold up). With batteries charged up to 91% the UPS supported the server for
> just 07:10 minutes and forced shutdown with 69% battery charge and over 20
> minutes of run time...
>
> 20200125 021123 70 0.0 16 [OB] NA 0.0
> 20200125 021128 69 0.0 16 [FSD ALARM OB LB] NA 0.0
> 20200125 021133 69 0.0 16 [FSD ALARM OB LB] NA 0.0
> 20200125 021138 69 0.0 16 [FSD ALARM OB LB] NA 0.0
> 20200125 021143 69 0.0 16 [FSD ALARM OB LB] NA 0.0
> 20200125 021148 69 0.0 16 [FSD ALARM OB LB] NA 0.0
> 20200125 021150 69 0.0 16 [FSD ALARM OB LB] NA 0.0
>
> So, it seems to me that my UPS forces shutdown pretty randomly. Why the
> UPS is not waiting for the preset low battery charge value of 15%? What is
> actually driving this FSD ALARM and LB signal when batteries for sure could
> hold up more?
>
>
> Can you please show us all the configuration files ? I can only suspect
> that there is something wrong there because (from a hardware point of view)
> the UPS behaves very very well, according to your tests and logs.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Nut-upsuser mailing list
> Nut-upsuser at alioth-lists.debian.net
> https://alioth-lists.debian.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/nut-upsuser
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Hello Manuel,
> that looks perfectly fine
That one yes, but as I wrote, LB and FSD are happening on much higher 
battery charge values - 90% or more, which is not fine.
> That's... surprisingly well, assuming your multimeter indicates 
> correct values. I would have expected values well below 12V
My multimeter hasn't gone inspection recently, but I do not have reasons 
to believe that the readings are wrong :-)
> Can you please show us all the configuration files ? I can only 
> suspect that there is something wrong there because (from a hardware 
> point of view) the UPS behaves very very well, according to your tests 
> and logs.
Which configuration files you'd like to see exactly? I haven't made many
configuration changes anyway. Isn't the UPS that reports LB (Low 
Battery) and FSB (forcing shutdown of the machine)? I mean if this is a 
configuration issue, then why I did not have this problem before? Why 
the shutdown happens on different battery charge levels?


Regards,
--
Georgi

On 27.1.2020 at 2:53, Manuel Wolfshant wrote:
> On 1/25/20 10:53 AM, Georgi D. Sotirov wrote:
>> OK, so yesterday evening I done a real test cutting of the power to 
>> the UPS. And it went good... the UPS supported my server for 28:50 
>> minutes (i.e. the expected runtime with this load), before forcing 
>> shutdown. The batteries could still hold as charge was 30 % with 
>> about 15 minutes run time. And the UPS did hold for another full 10 
>> minutes before powering off. These are the relevant lines from 
>> /var/log/ups:
>>
>> 20200124 201318 32 0.0 12 [OB] NA 0.0
>> 20200124 201323 30 0.0 13 [ALARM OB LB] NA 0.0
>> 20200124 201328 30 0.0 13 [FSD ALARM OB LB] NA 0.0
>> 20200124 201333 30 0.0 13 [FSD ALARM OB LB] NA 0.0
>> 20200124 201338 30 0.0 13 [FSD ALARM OB LB] NA 0.0
>> 20200124 201340 30 0.0 13 [FSD ALARM OB LB] NA 0.0
>
> that looks perfectly fine
>
>
>>
>> The server was shutdown properly, but for some reason it did not 
>> power off. I saw an error from umount about busy file system, but
I'm
>> sure this doesn't always happen.
>
> the error is related to your linux system, not to nut
>
>
>>
>> With everything powered off, I extracted the original batteries to 
>> check them and measure the voltage. The batteries are Leoch DJW12-9.0 
>> with one of them at 12.57 V and the other at 12.64 V (measured 
>> without load after the discharge).
>
> That's... surprisingly well, assuming your multimeter indicates 
> correct values. I would have expected values well below 12V
>
>
>
>>
>> And this morning there was again a short power failure (not more than 
>> 30 minutes, because the router connected to the battery power from 
>> the UPS did hold up). With batteries charged up to 91% the UPS 
>> supported the server for just 07:10 minutes and forced shutdown with 
>> 69% battery charge and over 20 minutes of run time...
>>
>> 20200125 021123 70 0.0 16 [OB] NA 0.0
>> 20200125 021128 69 0.0 16 [FSD ALARM OB LB] NA 0.0
>> 20200125 021133 69 0.0 16 [FSD ALARM OB LB] NA 0.0
>> 20200125 021138 69 0.0 16 [FSD ALARM OB LB] NA 0.0
>> 20200125 021143 69 0.0 16 [FSD ALARM OB LB] NA 0.0
>> 20200125 021148 69 0.0 16 [FSD ALARM OB LB] NA 0.0
>> 20200125 021150 69 0.0 16 [FSD ALARM OB LB] NA 0.0
>>
>> So, it seems to me that my UPS forces shutdown pretty randomly. Why 
>> the UPS is not waiting for the preset low battery charge value of 
>> 15%? What is actually driving this FSD ALARM and LB signal when 
>> batteries for sure could hold up more?
>
>
> Can you please show us all the configuration files ? I can only 
> suspect that there is something wrong there because (from a hardware 
> point of view) the UPS behaves very very well, according to your tests 
> and logs.
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Nut-upsuser mailing list
> Nut-upsuser at alioth-lists.debian.net
> https://alioth-lists.debian.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/nut-upsuser
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Yes it could be problem with some of the cells. I consider going to the 
service, but I do not have another backup UPS and the service requires 
leaving the UPS for at least 3 days (I presume, so they could perform 
such tests). I'll try replacing the batteries and if it doesn't help, 
then I'll go to the service.


Regards,
--
Georgi

On 27.1.2020 at 10:38, nicolae788 wrote:
> Hello.
>
> I sometimes encountered batteries that were ok, but at times one of 
> the cells would develop a random short/open, therefore reducing the 
> real capacity even if voltage reading was ok. In the absence of a 
> battery load tester i would suggest running multiple tests with a load 
> (car headlight bulb or similar) on the battery outside the ups. This 
> is to eliminate the suspicion of a software or UPS unit fault.
>
> Alex.
>
> On Mon, 27 Jan 2020, 02:53 Manuel Wolfshant, <wolfy at
nobugconsulting.ro
> <mailto:wolfy at nobugconsulting.ro>> wrote:
>
>     On 1/25/20 10:53 AM, Georgi D. Sotirov wrote:
>>     OK, so yesterday evening I done a real test cutting of the power
>>     to the UPS. And it went good... the UPS supported my server for
>>     28:50 minutes (i.e. the expected runtime with this load), before
>>     forcing shutdown. The batteries could still hold as charge was 30
>>     % with about 15 minutes run time. And the UPS did hold for
>>     another full 10 minutes before powering off. These are the
>>     relevant lines from /var/log/ups:
>>
>>     20200124 201318 32 0.0 12 [OB] NA 0.0
>>     20200124 201323 30 0.0 13 [ALARM OB LB] NA 0.0
>>     20200124 201328 30 0.0 13 [FSD ALARM OB LB] NA 0.0
>>     20200124 201333 30 0.0 13 [FSD ALARM OB LB] NA 0.0
>>     20200124 201338 30 0.0 13 [FSD ALARM OB LB] NA 0.0
>>     20200124 201340 30 0.0 13 [FSD ALARM OB LB] NA 0.0
>
>     that looks perfectly fine
>
>
>>
>>     The server was shutdown properly, but for some reason it did not
>>     power off. I saw an error from umount about busy file system, but
>>     I'm sure this doesn't always happen.
>
>     the error is related to your linux system, not to nut
>
>
>>
>>     With everything powered off, I extracted the original batteries
>>     to check them and measure the voltage. The batteries are Leoch
>>     DJW12-9.0 with one of them at 12.57 V and the other at 12.64 V
>>     (measured without load after the discharge).
>
>     That's... surprisingly well, assuming your multimeter indicates
>     correct values. I would have expected values well below 12V
>
>
>
>>
>>     And this morning there was again a short power failure (not more
>>     than 30 minutes, because the router connected to the battery
>>     power from the UPS did hold up). With batteries charged up to 91%
>>     the UPS supported the server for just 07:10 minutes and forced
>>     shutdown with 69% battery charge and over 20 minutes of run time...
>>
>>     20200125 021123 70 0.0 16 [OB] NA 0.0
>>     20200125 021128 69 0.0 16 [FSD ALARM OB LB] NA 0.0
>>     20200125 021133 69 0.0 16 [FSD ALARM OB LB] NA 0.0
>>     20200125 021138 69 0.0 16 [FSD ALARM OB LB] NA 0.0
>>     20200125 021143 69 0.0 16 [FSD ALARM OB LB] NA 0.0
>>     20200125 021148 69 0.0 16 [FSD ALARM OB LB] NA 0.0
>>     20200125 021150 69 0.0 16 [FSD ALARM OB LB] NA 0.0
>>
>>     So, it seems to me that my UPS forces shutdown pretty randomly.
>>     Why the UPS is not waiting for the preset low battery charge
>>     value of 15%? What is actually driving this FSD ALARM and LB
>>     signal when batteries for sure could hold up more?
>
>
>     Can you please show us all the configuration files ? I can only
>     suspect that there is something wrong there because (from a
>     hardware point of view) the UPS behaves very very well, according
>     to your tests and logs.
>
>
>     _______________________________________________
>     Nut-upsuser mailing list
>     Nut-upsuser at alioth-lists.debian.net
>     <mailto:Nut-upsuser at alioth-lists.debian.net>
>     https://alioth-lists.debian.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/nut-upsuser
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Nut-upsuser mailing list
> Nut-upsuser at alioth-lists.debian.net
> https://alioth-lists.debian.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/nut-upsuser
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