llvm dev - Oct 2015 - RFC: Introducing an LLVM Community Code of Conduct

Am 14.10.2015 um 14:57 schrieb Krzysztof Parzyszek via
llvm-dev:
> Is there an ongoing problem with the types of discussions on this, and
> other LLVM-related lists?
Not currently.
> What problem is the proposed CoC trying to solve?
Stop possible future harrassment before it can happen.

It's a legitimate concern actually.

On 10/14/2015 8:22 AM, Joachim Durchholz via llvm-dev
wrote:
>
> Stop possible future harrassment before it can happen.
>
> It's a legitimate concern actually.
CoC is not going to stop or prevent any harassment.  It only defines 
what behaviors are considered "harassment", and that is something we
all
seem to have a good grasp of anyway.  The current administrators of the 
mailing lists, or the organizers of the LLVM conferences already have 
the means to deal with it.

-Krzysztof

-- 
Qualcomm Innovation Center, Inc. is a member of Code Aurora Forum, 
hosted by The Linux Foundation

On 14 October 2015 at 14:32, Krzysztof Parzyszek via llvm-dev
<llvm-dev at lists.llvm.org> wrote:
> CoC is not going to stop or prevent any harassment.
True.
> The current administrators of the mailing
> lists, or the organizers of the LLVM conferences already have the means to
> deal with it.
Not really.

We haven't had to ban anyone from the list or kick anyone from a
conference yet, but without some form of written agreement, it'd be
hard to get to any concrete solution if it were to happen.

I'm not saying the CoC is perfect, or is the best tool for the job,
but it's *a* tool, IFF there is agreement in the community about it,
and IFF the whole process is democratic, including future changes.
Like constitutions trump laws, I believe community pressure should
always trump committees and foundations.

cheers,
--renato

On Wed, Oct 14, 2015 at 6:32 AM Krzysztof Parzyszek via llvm-dev <
llvm-dev at lists.llvm.org> wrote:
> On 10/14/2015 8:22 AM, Joachim Durchholz via llvm-dev wrote:
> >
> > Stop possible future harrassment before it can happen.
> >
> > It's a legitimate concern actually.
>
> CoC is not going to stop or prevent any harassment.

Do you have any data to back up this claim? I don't have any *data* that
says anything conclusive about whether a code of conduct will stop or
prevent harassment in an open source community -- there are relatively few
such communities and not much time in order to collect such data.

However, several events and communities have reported that their problems
with these issues (and they had more problems largely due to being larger
communities) decreased.

And all of the expert recommendations on how to reduce or prevent these
things suggests having a code of conduct precisely *because* it defines
these things and spells everything out clearly.


> It only defines
> what behaviors are considered "harassment", and that is something
we all
> seem to have a good grasp of anyway.

There have been numerous research studies here, and peoples' views on what
constitutes this varies *very widely*. This is especially true across
cultures. I can try to dig up links to some of them if that is useful to
you.
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