llvm dev - Feb 2010 - [LLVMdev] [cfe-dev] Reminder: 2.7 code freeze in 1.5 weeks

On Feb 12, 2010, at 8:25 AM, David Greene wrote:
> On Thursday 11 February 2010 18:17:33 Tanya Lattner wrote:
>> Just a reminder that the 2.7 code freeze is on Feb 21st.
>> 
>> All major changes should be committed approximately 1 week before the
code
>> freeze to ensure adequate testing. Please do your part to keep the tree
>> stable in the days leading up to the code freeze.
> 
> Since the metadata stuff just settled recently, I like to ask for some time
to
> get the non-temporal stuff in.  This is really critical for our work here
and
> it would be nice to get this into 2.7.
Generally, I favor timed releases over feature releases, but... the Clang team
would also like a little more time to prepare for the 2.7 release. Specifically,
we propose to push back by 2 weeks, with the revised schedule being:

3/7 - Code Freeze (9PM PST)
3/13 - Pre-release1 released & community testing begins
3/20 - Pre-release1 testing ends
3/27 - Pre-release2 released & community testing begins 
4/3 - Pre-release2 testing ends
4/5 - Release

Why now?

Clang's C++ support is at an important transitional point: we can self-host
a Debug build, and are starting to build significant C++ open source projects
such as CMake, Firefox, Qt, and even parts of Boost. LLVM 2.7 is the perfect
opportunity to enable Clang C++ support by default and announce to the
open-source community that we now have something worth looking at. However, we
have several known semantic analysis bugs and miscompiles that prevent
self-hosting with optimization enabled, cause Firefox to crash on startup, etc.
To advertise Clang C++ widely as part of 2.7 while these bugs remain would be
embarrassing, but we feel that we can address the major problems with only a
two-week slip in the schedule.

Clang C++ only gets one big coming-out party (ever); a little more time will
make a big difference.

	- Doug
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On Friday 12 February 2010 17:02:41 Douglas Gregor wrote:
> Clang C++ only gets one big coming-out party (ever); a little more time
> will make a big difference.
Hooray!  Getting this into 2.7 would also be a great thing for OS 
distributions as they could package 2.7 as a real development package.
 I know it would help another project I'm working on.

                                            -Dave

I am definitely in favor of this if it is ok with Tanya.

I hope to spend some time in the next few weeks on tracking down
miscompiles, and it would be great to get Clang to the
"early-but-usable-beta" stage so it makes sense to roll binaries for
2.7.

Tanya, I can also do the x86-32-pc-linux release testing if no one
else steps up.

 - Daniel

On Fri, Feb 12, 2010 at 3:02 PM, Douglas Gregor <dgregor at apple.com>
wrote:
>
> On Feb 12, 2010, at 8:25 AM, David Greene wrote:
>
> On Thursday 11 February 2010 18:17:33 Tanya Lattner wrote:
>
> Just a reminder that the 2.7 code freeze is on Feb 21st.
>
> All major changes should be committed approximately 1 week before the code
>
> freeze to ensure adequate testing. Please do your part to keep the tree
>
> stable in the days leading up to the code freeze.
>
> Since the metadata stuff just settled recently, I like to ask for some time
> to
> get the non-temporal stuff in.  This is really critical for our work here
> and
> it would be nice to get this into 2.7.
>
> Generally, I favor timed releases over feature releases, but... the Clang
> team would also like a little more time to prepare for the 2.7 release.
> Specifically, we propose to push back by 2 weeks, with the revised schedule
> being:
> 3/7 - Code Freeze (9PM PST)
> 3/13 - Pre-release1 released & community testing begins
> 3/20 - Pre-release1 testing ends
> 3/27 - Pre-release2 released & community testing begins
> 4/3 - Pre-release2 testing ends
> 4/5 - Release
> Why now?
> Clang's C++ support is at an important transitional point: we can
self-host
> a Debug build, and are starting to build significant C++ open source
> projects such as CMake, Firefox, Qt, and even parts of Boost. LLVM 2.7 is
> the perfect opportunity to enable Clang C++ support by default and announce
> to the open-source community that we now have something worth looking
> at. However, we have several known semantic analysis bugs and miscompiles
> that prevent self-hosting with optimization enabled, cause Firefox to crash
> on startup, etc. To advertise Clang C++ widely as part of 2.7 while these
> bugs remain would be embarrassing, but we feel that we can address the
major
> problems with only a two-week slip in the schedule.
> Clang C++ only gets one big coming-out party (ever); a little more time
will
> make a big difference.
> - Doug
> _______________________________________________
> cfe-dev mailing list
> cfe-dev at cs.uiuc.edu
> http://lists.cs.uiuc.edu/mailman/listinfo/cfe-dev
>
>

On Fri, Feb 12, 2010 at 5:48 PM, Daniel Dunbar <daniel at zuster.org>
wrote:
> I am definitely in favor of this if it is ok with Tanya.
>
> I hope to spend some time in the next few weeks on tracking down
> miscompiles, and it would be great to get Clang to the
> "early-but-usable-beta" stage so it makes sense to roll binaries
for
> 2.7.
>
> Tanya, I can also do the x86-32-pc-linux release testing if no one
> else steps up.
I've access to several machines for pc-linux testing, 32bit and 64
bit, amd and intel, as well as several distributions.
>
>  - Daniel
>
> On Fri, Feb 12, 2010 at 3:02 PM, Douglas Gregor <dgregor at
apple.com> wrote:
>>
>> On Feb 12, 2010, at 8:25 AM, David Greene wrote:
>>
>> On Thursday 11 February 2010 18:17:33 Tanya Lattner wrote:
>>
>> Just a reminder that the 2.7 code freeze is on Feb 21st.
>>
>> All major changes should be committed approximately 1 week before the
code
>>
>> freeze to ensure adequate testing. Please do your part to keep the tree
>>
>> stable in the days leading up to the code freeze.
>>
>> Since the metadata stuff just settled recently, I like to ask for some
time
>> to
>> get the non-temporal stuff in.  This is really critical for our work
here
>> and
>> it would be nice to get this into 2.7.
>>
>> Generally, I favor timed releases over feature releases, but... the
Clang
>> team would also like a little more time to prepare for the 2.7 release.
>> Specifically, we propose to push back by 2 weeks, with the revised
schedule
>> being:
>> 3/7 - Code Freeze (9PM PST)
>> 3/13 - Pre-release1 released & community testing begins
>> 3/20 - Pre-release1 testing ends
>> 3/27 - Pre-release2 released & community testing begins
>> 4/3 - Pre-release2 testing ends
>> 4/5 - Release
>> Why now?
>> Clang's C++ support is at an important transitional point: we can
self-host
>> a Debug build, and are starting to build significant C++ open source
>> projects such as CMake, Firefox, Qt, and even parts of Boost. LLVM 2.7
is
>> the perfect opportunity to enable Clang C++ support by default and
announce
>> to the open-source community that we now have something worth looking
>> at. However, we have several known semantic analysis bugs and
miscompiles
>> that prevent self-hosting with optimization enabled, cause Firefox to
crash
>> on startup, etc. To advertise Clang C++ widely as part of 2.7 while
these
>> bugs remain would be embarrassing, but we feel that we can address the
major
>> problems with only a two-week slip in the schedule.
>> Clang C++ only gets one big coming-out party (ever); a little more time
will
>> make a big difference.
>> - Doug
>> _______________________________________________
>> cfe-dev mailing list
>> cfe-dev at cs.uiuc.edu
>> http://lists.cs.uiuc.edu/mailman/listinfo/cfe-dev
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> LLVM Developers mailing list
> LLVMdev at cs.uiuc.edu         http://llvm.cs.uiuc.edu
> http://lists.cs.uiuc.edu/mailman/listinfo/llvmdev
>

> Clang C++ only gets one big coming-out party (ever); a little
> more time will make a big difference. 
Hmm, wouldn't that speak against jamming this into 2.7 ?  Let 2.7 
go out and don't bark at it's C++ status. That gives you a full 
release-cycle to get C++ into some *REALLY* good state. For 
example, a state where you can not just say "Oh, Firefox doesn't 
crash anymore", but where are benchmarks for compilation time, 
compilation memory consumption and execution speeds exists.

So, if there's only one coming-out party, make it a real party, 
not some "me too" event!   :-)


-- 
http://www.holgerschurig.de

On Mon, Feb 15, 2010 at 9:30 AM, Holger Schurig <holgerschurig at
gmail.com>wrote:
> > Clang C++ only gets one big coming-out party (ever); a little
> > more time will make a big difference.
>
> Hmm, wouldn't that speak against jamming this into 2.7 ?  Let 2.7
> go out and don't bark at it's C++ status. That gives you a full
> release-cycle to get C++ into some *REALLY* good state. For
> example, a state where you can not just say "Oh, Firefox doesn't
> crash anymore", but where are benchmarks for compilation time,
> compilation memory consumption and execution speeds exists.
>
> So, if there's only one coming-out party, make it a real party,
> not some "me too" event!   :-)
>
>
I may have misunderstood, but I figured that Doug is suggesting to
get known issues fixed so that clang++ might be ready for
broader testing.
More test coverage will shake out a lot of the remaining issues
at a quicker rate.

If the community contributes by increasing the test coverage
for clang++ then the core clang team could concentrate on fixing the
real the community would report.

I think Doug is suggesting that a bit more time will enable more
community participation in shaking out remaining issues during
the next cycle.

Would clang++ not be ready sooner in this way?

Cheers,
Maurice
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On Feb 15, 2010, at 12:30 AM, Holger Schurig wrote:
>> Clang C++ only gets one big coming-out party (ever); a little
>> more time will make a big difference. 
> 
> Hmm, wouldn't that speak against jamming this into 2.7 ?  Let 2.7 
> go out and don't bark at it's C++ status. That gives you a full 
> release-cycle to get C++ into some *REALLY* good state.
Where's the excitement in that? Another release cycle is 6 months away, and
if past progress is any indication, we'll have gotten Clang C++ to the point
where it "just works" for the vast majority of C++ programs [1]. At
that point, it will also be 9 months after our first "self-host",
which is an eternity in open-source time.

No, 2.7 is the right time-frame for the Clang C++ announcement: we're not
done, but we have enough to show to gain attention and draw in contributors, and
we have some momentum now from having just announced a successful self-host.
> For 
> example, a state where you can not just say "Oh, Firefox doesn't 
> crash anymore", but where are benchmarks for compilation time, 
> compilation memory consumption and execution speeds exists.
Those benchmarks are trivial to produce, and while we won't have time to
further optimize for any of them, we will be able to establish a baseline [2] in
2.7 and improve from there.

	- Doug

[2] Compilation memory consumption and compilation time already look better than
GCC, along with clearer diagnostics and Clang's other benefits, so we'll
have something to say already.

On Feb 12, 2010, at 3:02 PM, Douglas Gregor wrote:
> 
> On Feb 12, 2010, at 8:25 AM, David Greene wrote:
> 
>> On Thursday 11 February 2010 18:17:33 Tanya Lattner wrote:
>>> Just a reminder that the 2.7 code freeze is on Feb 21st.
>>> 
>>> All major changes should be committed approximately 1 week before
the code
>>> freeze to ensure adequate testing. Please do your part to keep the
tree
>>> stable in the days leading up to the code freeze.
>> 
>> Since the metadata stuff just settled recently, I like to ask for some
time to
>> get the non-temporal stuff in.  This is really critical for our work
here and
>> it would be nice to get this into 2.7.
> 
> Generally, I favor timed releases over feature releases, but... the Clang
team would also like a little more time to prepare for the 2.7 release.
Specifically, we propose to push back by 2 weeks, with the revised schedule
being:
> 
> 3/7 - Code Freeze (9PM PST)
> 3/13 - Pre-release1 released & community testing begins
> 3/20 - Pre-release1 testing ends
> 3/27 - Pre-release2 released & community testing begins 
> 4/3 - Pre-release2 testing ends
> 4/5 - Release
After reading through the responses, I think that it makes sense to postpone
this for a couple weeks. I'll update the schedule.

I'd like to reiterate that we do not normally push back releases for new
features. However, Clang is on the verge of hitting a major milestone and
I'll make an exception in this case. I do not see any negatives to waiting a
couple extra weeks.

Thanks,
Tanya
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On Feb 15, 2010, at 11:19 AM, Tanya Lattner wrote:
> 
> On Feb 12, 2010, at 3:02 PM, Douglas Gregor wrote:
> 
>> 
>> On Feb 12, 2010, at 8:25 AM, David Greene wrote:
>> 
>>> On Thursday 11 February 2010 18:17:33 Tanya Lattner wrote:
>>>> Just a reminder that the 2.7 code freeze is on Feb 21st.
>>>> 
>>>> All major changes should be committed approximately 1 week
before the code
>>>> freeze to ensure adequate testing. Please do your part to keep
the tree
>>>> stable in the days leading up to the code freeze.
>>> 
>>> Since the metadata stuff just settled recently, I like to ask for
some time to
>>> get the non-temporal stuff in.  This is really critical for our
work here and
>>> it would be nice to get this into 2.7.
>> 
>> Generally, I favor timed releases over feature releases, but... the
Clang team would also like a little more time to prepare for the 2.7 release.
Specifically, we propose to push back by 2 weeks, with the revised schedule
being:
>> 
>> 3/7 - Code Freeze (9PM PST)
>> 3/13 - Pre-release1 released & community testing begins
>> 3/20 - Pre-release1 testing ends
>> 3/27 - Pre-release2 released & community testing begins 
>> 4/3 - Pre-release2 testing ends
>> 4/5 - Release
> 
> After reading through the responses, I think that it makes sense to
postpone this for a couple weeks. I'll update the schedule.
> 
> I'd like to reiterate that we do not normally push back releases for
new features. However, Clang is on the verge of hitting a major milestone and
I'll make an exception in this case. I do not see any negatives to waiting a
couple extra weeks.
Thank you!

	- Doug
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