I have a number of production servers that only have bge and I don't see that listed in either category. None of them are running FreeBSD 12 yet as it has not been released. Also there are some with rl. Those are add-on boards so they could be changed, but would require extensive effort as the machines are about a 4 hour drive from here and would require reconfiguration (an error prone process when you are tired). I also have two production machines with ue devices. There is no provision for replacing them. They are running an early version of 12 as 11 doesn't run on those machines. I don't see ue listed in either category. -- Doug> On 3 October 2018, at 14:05, Brooks Davis <brooks at freebsd.org> wrote: > >>>> Please direct replies to freebsd-arch <<< > > FCP-01010 (https://github.com/freebsd/fcp/blob/master/fcp-0101.md) > outlines a plan to deprecate most 10/100 Ethernet drivers in FreeBSD 12 > and remove them in FreeBSD 13 to reduce the burden of maintaining and > improving the network stack. We have discussed this within the > core team and intend to move forward as proposed. We are solictiting > feedback on the list of drivers to be excepted from removal. > > The current list of drivers slated for REMOVAL is: > > ae, bfe, bm, cs, dme, ed, ep, ex, fe, pcn, rl, sf, smc, sn, > ste, tl, tx, txp, vx, wb, xe > > The current list of drivers that will STAY in the tree is: > > dc, ffec, fxpl, hme, le, sis, vr, xl > > The criteria for exception are: > - Popular in applications where it is likely to be deployed beyond the > support lifetime of FreeBSD 12 (late 2023). > - 5 reports of uses in the wild on machines running FreeBSD 12 will be > deemed satisfy the "popular" > requirement. > - Required to make a well supported embedded or emulation platform usable. > - Ported to use iflib (reducing future maintenance cost.) > > Please reply to this message with nominations to the exception list. > > The full FCP-0101 is included below. > > -- Brooks > > --- > authors: Brooks Davis <brooks at freebsd.org> > state: feedback > --- > > # FCP 101: Deprecation and removal of 10/100 Ethernet drivers > > Deprecate most 10 and 10/100Mbps Ethernet drivers and remove them before > FreeBSD 13. > > ## Problem Statement > > Each network driver creates drag for the project as we attempt to > improve the network stack or provide new features such as expanded > 32-bit compatibility. For example, the author has edited every single > NIC driver more than once in the past year to update management (`ioctl`) > interfaces. We could improve this situation by converting drivers to > iflib, but each additional driver takes work. > > 10 and 100 megabit Ethernet drivers are largely irrelevant today > and we have a significant number of them in the tree. The ones that > are no longer used and/or are not known to be working need to be > removed due to the significant ongoing 'tax' on new development. > > For at least a decade, most systems (including small embedded > systems) have shipped with gigabit Ethernet devices and virtual > machines commonly emulate popular gigabit devices. We wish to > retain support for popular physical and virtual devices while > removing support for uncommon ones. With a few exceptions these > drivers are unlikely to be used by our user base by the time FreeBSD > 12 is obsolete (approximately 2024). > > ## Proposed Solution > > We propose to deprecate devices which are not sufficiently popular. This > will entail: > - (October 2018) Send this list to freebsd-net and freebsd-stable. > - (Before FreeBSD 12.0-RELEASE - October 2018) Update the manpages and > attach routines for each device to be removed and merge those changes > to FreeBSD 12. > - (One month after FreeBSD 12.0-RELEASE - January 2018) Remind > freebsd-net and freebsd-stable users of pending deletion. > - (Two months after FreeBSD 12.0-RELEASE - February 2019) Delete deprecated > devices. > > Through out this process, solicit feedback on additions to the exception > list and update this document as required. For a device to be placed on > the exception list the device must meet one of the following criteria: > - Popular in applications where it is likely to be deployed beyond the > support lifetime of FreeBSD 12 (late 2023). > - 5 reports of uses in the wild on machines running FreeBSD 12 will be > deemed satisfy the "popular" > requirement. > - Required to make a well supported embedded or emulation platform usable. > - Ported to use iflib (reducing future maintenance cost.) > > ### Exceptions to removal > > Device | Reason > -------|------------------------------------------------- > ffec | Onboard Ethernet for Vybrid arm7 boards > fxp | Popular device long recommended by the project. > dc | Popular device for CardBus card. > hme | Built in interface on many supported sparc64 platforms. > le | Emulated by QEMU, alternatives don't yet work for mips64. > sis | Soekris Engineering net45xx, net48xx, lan1621, and lan1641. > vr | Soekris Engineering net5501, some Asus motherboards. > xl | Popular device for CardBus card. > > Note: USB devices have been excluded from consideration in this round. > > ### Device to be removed > > ae, bfe, bm, cs, dme, ed, ep, ex, fe, pcn, rl, sf, smc, sn, > ste, tl, tx, txp, vx, wb, xe > > ## Final Disposition > > TBD
On 04/10/2018 20:54, Doug Hardie wrote:> I have a number of production servers that only have bge and I don't see that listed in either category. None of them are running FreeBSD 12 yet as it has not been released. Also there are some with rl. Those are add-on boards so they could be changed, but would require extensive effort as the machines are about a 4 hour drive from here and would require reconfiguration (an error prone process when you are tired). >bge is gigabit (I believe it actually stands for Broadcom Gigabit Ethernet) and thus wont be covered, as its only the 10/100 devices being propsed for removal. I too have a lot of machines with bge onboard, though we only use them on 100 meg ether in the main. -pete.
On Thu, Oct 4, 2018 at 12:55 PM Doug Hardie <bc979 at lafn.org> wrote:> > I have a number of production servers that only have bge and I don't see that listed in either category. None of them are running FreeBSD 12 yet as it has not been released. Also there are some with rl. Those are add-on boards so they could be changed, but would require extensive effort as the machines are about a 4 hour drive from here and would require reconfiguration (an error prone process when you are tired). >To this day servers ship with bge. My Talos 2 with 2x22x4 P9s has dual onboard bge. -M> I also have two production machines with ue devices. There is no provision for replacing them. They are running an early version of 12 as 11 doesn't run on those machines. I don't see ue listed in either category. > > -- Doug > > > On 3 October 2018, at 14:05, Brooks Davis <brooks at freebsd.org> wrote: > > > >>>> Please direct replies to freebsd-arch <<< > > > > FCP-01010 (https://github.com/freebsd/fcp/blob/master/fcp-0101.md) > > outlines a plan to deprecate most 10/100 Ethernet drivers in FreeBSD 12 > > and remove them in FreeBSD 13 to reduce the burden of maintaining and > > improving the network stack. We have discussed this within the > > core team and intend to move forward as proposed. We are solictiting > > feedback on the list of drivers to be excepted from removal. > > > > The current list of drivers slated for REMOVAL is: > > > > ae, bfe, bm, cs, dme, ed, ep, ex, fe, pcn, rl, sf, smc, sn, > > ste, tl, tx, txp, vx, wb, xe > > > > The current list of drivers that will STAY in the tree is: > > > > dc, ffec, fxpl, hme, le, sis, vr, xl > > > > The criteria for exception are: > > - Popular in applications where it is likely to be deployed beyond the > > support lifetime of FreeBSD 12 (late 2023). > > - 5 reports of uses in the wild on machines running FreeBSD 12 will be > > deemed satisfy the "popular" > > requirement. > > - Required to make a well supported embedded or emulation platform usable. > > - Ported to use iflib (reducing future maintenance cost.) > > > > Please reply to this message with nominations to the exception list. > > > > The full FCP-0101 is included below. > > > > -- Brooks > > > > --- > > authors: Brooks Davis <brooks at freebsd.org> > > state: feedback > > --- > > > > # FCP 101: Deprecation and removal of 10/100 Ethernet drivers > > > > Deprecate most 10 and 10/100Mbps Ethernet drivers and remove them before > > FreeBSD 13. > > > > ## Problem Statement > > > > Each network driver creates drag for the project as we attempt to > > improve the network stack or provide new features such as expanded > > 32-bit compatibility. For example, the author has edited every single > > NIC driver more than once in the past year to update management (`ioctl`) > > interfaces. We could improve this situation by converting drivers to > > iflib, but each additional driver takes work. > > > > 10 and 100 megabit Ethernet drivers are largely irrelevant today > > and we have a significant number of them in the tree. The ones that > > are no longer used and/or are not known to be working need to be > > removed due to the significant ongoing 'tax' on new development. > > > > For at least a decade, most systems (including small embedded > > systems) have shipped with gigabit Ethernet devices and virtual > > machines commonly emulate popular gigabit devices. We wish to > > retain support for popular physical and virtual devices while > > removing support for uncommon ones. With a few exceptions these > > drivers are unlikely to be used by our user base by the time FreeBSD > > 12 is obsolete (approximately 2024). > > > > ## Proposed Solution > > > > We propose to deprecate devices which are not sufficiently popular. This > > will entail: > > - (October 2018) Send this list to freebsd-net and freebsd-stable. > > - (Before FreeBSD 12.0-RELEASE - October 2018) Update the manpages and > > attach routines for each device to be removed and merge those changes > > to FreeBSD 12. > > - (One month after FreeBSD 12.0-RELEASE - January 2018) Remind > > freebsd-net and freebsd-stable users of pending deletion. > > - (Two months after FreeBSD 12.0-RELEASE - February 2019) Delete deprecated > > devices. > > > > Through out this process, solicit feedback on additions to the exception > > list and update this document as required. For a device to be placed on > > the exception list the device must meet one of the following criteria: > > - Popular in applications where it is likely to be deployed beyond the > > support lifetime of FreeBSD 12 (late 2023). > > - 5 reports of uses in the wild on machines running FreeBSD 12 will be > > deemed satisfy the "popular" > > requirement. > > - Required to make a well supported embedded or emulation platform usable. > > - Ported to use iflib (reducing future maintenance cost.) > > > > ### Exceptions to removal > > > > Device | Reason > > -------|------------------------------------------------- > > ffec | Onboard Ethernet for Vybrid arm7 boards > > fxp | Popular device long recommended by the project. > > dc | Popular device for CardBus card. > > hme | Built in interface on many supported sparc64 platforms. > > le | Emulated by QEMU, alternatives don't yet work for mips64. > > sis | Soekris Engineering net45xx, net48xx, lan1621, and lan1641. > > vr | Soekris Engineering net5501, some Asus motherboards. > > xl | Popular device for CardBus card. > > > > Note: USB devices have been excluded from consideration in this round. > > > > ### Device to be removed > > > > ae, bfe, bm, cs, dme, ed, ep, ex, fe, pcn, rl, sf, smc, sn, > > ste, tl, tx, txp, vx, wb, xe > > > > ## Final Disposition > > > > TBD > > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-stable at freebsd.org mailing list > https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-stable-unsubscribe at freebsd.org"
Doug Hardie wrote:> I have a number of production servers that only have bge and I don't see that listed in either category. None of them are running FreeBSD 12 yet as it has not been released. Also there are some with rl. Those are add-on boards so they could be changed, but would require extensive effort as the machines are about a 4 hour drive from here and would require reconfiguration (an error prone process when you are tired).bge is also used by my main laptop with current Oct 15 18:33 /boot/kernel/kernel bge0: flags=8843<UP,BROADCAST,RUNNING,SIMPLEX,MULTICAST> metric 0 mtu 1500 options=c019b<RXCSUM,TXCSUM,VLAN_MTU,VLAN_HWTAGGING,VLAN_HWCSUM,TSO4,VLAN_HWTSO,LINKSTATE> media: Ethernet autoselect (1000baseT <full-duplex>) Doug, I think bge must be safe as man 4 bge: "bge - Broadcom BCM57xx/BCM590x Gigabit/Fast Ethernet driver" & Brooks proposal was ... "a plan to deprecate most 10/100 Ethernet drivers" Cheers, Julian -- Julian Stacey, Computer Consultant, Systems Engineer, BSD Linux Unix, Munich. Brexit referendum stole 3,700,000 Brits votes abroad, inc. 700,000 in EU. Campaign lies, criminal funding, economy & pound down. Time for an honest ref. http://exitbrexit.uk https://www.peoples-vote.uk/petition https://eci.ec.europa.eu/002/public/#/initiative