I subscribe (pay) for a lot of things personally. Music, Movies, Anti Virus, VPN, Storage, etc. But for my business, I do not want to pay Red Hat, Zimbra, or Google Workspace. Why ? Because the general rule seems to be Oh! You are an individual, we will offer you affordable/free service What! You are a business, we will offer you extremely 'unaffordable' service. Because being a 'business' by default means you have a 'lot' of money to waste. Just my two cents. --- Lee On Fri, Jul 21, 2023 at 5:43?AM Gordon Messmer <gordon.messmer at gmail.com> wrote:> > On 2023-07-20 04:36, Itamar Reis Peixoto wrote: > > > > my predict is that they will continue as a #rebuilder / #freeloader, > > writing software is a hard work. > > #offensive terms to the community :-), hide hat wrote it. > > > No, they didn't. > > That term was bandied about on social media by people who were > speculating about the reasoning behind discontinuing the practice of > debranding and publishing packages from RHEL minor releases. > > Mike McGrath responded to the use of that term by social media > personalities to explain that the only group that Red Hat (for better or > worse) considers freeloaders are large businesses who keep a small > number of licensed RHEL systems so that when they have problems in their > production network (which isn't running RHEL), they can reproduce the > problem on RHEL and ask Red Hat for support. That practice is dishonest > and abusive. > > If you're not doing that specific thing, then Red Hat is not calling you > a freeloader. > > _______________________________________________ > CentOS mailing list > CentOS at centos.org > https://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Fwiw we pay for Google Workspace. I think there is a pricing issue though, but I guess changing it would affect their income from their bigger customers. We just have 5 servers, and don't want any personal support. We'd be fine to pay what we'd consider a reasonable fee I think. I contacted Redhat to ask about their licensing and if we could fit somehow into it (i.e the personal support & 16 machine type license), but they could never give us a straight answer, so the implication was we couldn't be certain we weren't breaking any t&cs. I also thought maybe they'd make an offer or something, but never did. The costs are just too high for some people for what they are offering. The problem now, is what I think people are happy to pay for is trust, which is gone. If we'd have known in advance, we'd have made other choices. Ian On Fri, Jul 21, 2023 at 8:31?AM Lee Thomas Stephen <lee.iitb at gmail.com> wrote:> I subscribe (pay) for a lot of things personally. Music, Movies, Anti > Virus, VPN, Storage, etc. > But for my business, I do not want to pay Red Hat, Zimbra, or Google > Workspace. > Why ? > Because the general rule seems to be > Oh! You are an individual, we will offer you affordable/free service > What! You are a business, we will offer you extremely 'unaffordable' > service. > Because being a 'business' by default means you have a 'lot' of money to > waste. > > Just my two cents. > > >
Sorry for being too critical. I hope we have a better understanding between us (customer and provider). Thanks --- Lee On Fri, Jul 21, 2023 at 1:00?PM Lee Thomas Stephen <lee.iitb at gmail.com> wrote:> > I subscribe (pay) for a lot of things personally. Music, Movies, Anti > Virus, VPN, Storage, etc. > But for my business, I do not want to pay Red Hat, Zimbra, or Google Workspace. > Why ? > Because the general rule seems to be > Oh! You are an individual, we will offer you affordable/free service > What! You are a business, we will offer you extremely 'unaffordable' service. > Because being a 'business' by default means you have a 'lot' of money to waste. > > Just my two cents. > > --- > Lee > > On Fri, Jul 21, 2023 at 5:43?AM Gordon Messmer <gordon.messmer at gmail.com> wrote: > > > > On 2023-07-20 04:36, Itamar Reis Peixoto wrote: > > > > > > my predict is that they will continue as a #rebuilder / #freeloader, > > > writing software is a hard work. > > > #offensive terms to the community :-), hide hat wrote it. > > > > > > No, they didn't. > > > > That term was bandied about on social media by people who were > > speculating about the reasoning behind discontinuing the practice of > > debranding and publishing packages from RHEL minor releases. > > > > Mike McGrath responded to the use of that term by social media > > personalities to explain that the only group that Red Hat (for better or > > worse) considers freeloaders are large businesses who keep a small > > number of licensed RHEL systems so that when they have problems in their > > production network (which isn't running RHEL), they can reproduce the > > problem on RHEL and ask Red Hat for support. That practice is dishonest > > and abusive. > > > > If you're not doing that specific thing, then Red Hat is not calling you > > a freeloader. > > > > _______________________________________________ > > CentOS mailing list > > CentOS at centos.org > > https://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
On 2023-07-21 00:30, Lee Thomas Stephen wrote:> But for my business, I do not want to pay Red Hat, Zimbra, or Google Workspace. > Why ? > Because the general rule seems to be > Oh! You are an individual, we will offer you affordable/free service > What! You are a business, we will offer you extremely 'unaffordable' service. > Because being a 'business' by default means you have a 'lot' of money to waste.I'm not a Red Hat employee, so I'm not positive how they would respond to that.? But, speaking as a customer who has worked with numerous enterprise support agreements over several decades, I want to suggest that the issue isn't that Red Hat assumes that businesses have a lot of money to spend, it's that they're targeting a set of the market that you might not be in right now. From my point of view, Red Hat doesn't really sell software. They give away software.? All of their software is available at no charge, typically in an unbranded release.? What Red Hat sells is support. I don't mean helpdesk style "support-me-when-something-breaks" support.? Support isn't something that exists only during incidents, support is a relationship. It's periodic meetings with your account manager and engineers. It's discussing your roadmap and your pain points regularly, and getting direction from them. It's the opportunity to tell Red Hat what your needs and priorities are, and helping them make decisions about where to allocate their engineers time to address the real needs of their customers. It's setting the direction for the company that builds the system that sits underneath your technical operations. That kind of support is what makes RHEL a valuable offering. If you don't need the kind of support that comes with enterprise offerings, then by all means, use the Free Software that Red Hat provides to the community.? But don't make the mistake of thinking that Red Hat is trying to mlik businesses simply because they're businesses.? Red Hat's offerings are expensive because they're enterprise-focused support plans.
On 21.07.2023 09:30, Lee Thomas Stephen wrote:> Because the general rule seems to be > Oh! You are an individual, we will offer you affordable/free service > What! You are a business, we will offer you extremely 'unaffordable' service.this is ok, but the worse thing is:? students and teachers get affordable/free service and other citizens had to pay unrealistic sums of money ...> Because being a 'business' by default means you have a 'lot' of money to waste.(a) talking about money to waste is nonsense (b) think of the fact that this way residents get something affordable, which is absolutely fair; e.g. residents get 200 Mbit down/20 Mbit up unlimited for 30 dollars a month, 'business' has to pay for the same more than 100 dollars a month;
On 21.07.2023 09:30, Lee Thomas Stephen wrote:> Because the general rule seems to be > Oh! You are an individual, we will offer you affordable/free service > What! You are a business, we will offer you extremely 'unaffordable' > service.this is ok, but the worse thing is:? students and teachers get affordable/free service and other citizens had to pay unrealistic sums of money ...> Because being a 'business' by default means you have a 'lot' of money > to waste.(a) talking about money to waste is nonsense (b) think of the fact that this way residents get something affordable, which is absolutely fair; e.g. residents get 200 Mbit down/20 Mbit up unlimited for 30 dollars a month, 'business' has to pay for the same more than 100 dollars a month;