On 2015-02-09, Always Learning <centos at u64.u22.net> wrote:> > On Mon, 2015-02-09 at 11:12 -0800, John R Pierce wrote: > >> On 2/9/2015 11:06 AM, Always Learning wrote: >> > The third item was a 16.1 MB PDF of 1,344 pages. A quick scan of the PDF >> > shows every page appears to be readable. 11 pages devoted to BASH. >> > Information on other interesting topics too. >> >> on a site hosted in Russia which appears to be FULL of copyright violations. > > Probably not really a software pirate but an individual (and a keen > cyclist) storing some old-ish PDFs on his own web site.The PDF *itself* is still pirated. It has nothing whatsoever to do with "software" piracy.> So there is little to fear from the web site of a Russian cyclist who > likes Linux.I don't even fully trust docs written by any third party until I can cross-check it against official documentation. So I definitely do not think it's okay to trust pirated documentation from a Russian site I will never be able to know anything about. --keith -- kkeller at wombat.san-francisco.ca.us
On Mon, February 9, 2015 3:28 pm, Keith Keller wrote:> On 2015-02-09, Always Learning <centos at u64.u22.net> wrote: >> >> On Mon, 2015-02-09 at 11:12 -0800, John R Pierce wrote: >> >>> On 2/9/2015 11:06 AM, Always Learning wrote: >>> > The third item was a 16.1 MB PDF of 1,344 pages. A quick scan of the >>> PDF >>> > shows every page appears to be readable. 11 pages devoted to BASH. >>> > Information on other interesting topics too. >>> >>> on a site hosted in Russia which appears to be FULL of copyright >>> violations. >> >> Probably not really a software pirate but an individual (and a keen >> cyclist) storing some old-ish PDFs on his own web site. > > The PDF *itself* is still pirated. It has nothing whatsoever to do with > "software" piracy. > >> So there is little to fear from the web site of a Russian cyclist who >> likes Linux. > > I don't even fully trust docs written by any third party until I can > cross-check it against official documentation. So I definitely do not > think it's okay to trust pirated documentation from a Russian site I > will never be able to know anything about. >Which should not reflect on the book I recommended: http://www.amazon.com/Linux-System-Administration-Handbook-Edition/dp/0131480057 (Neither should the fact that the one who recommended it - myself - has Russian origin too. I for one hate the fact that copyright - and decency - are so much violated on the territory of Russia). Still, as I stressed in my original suggestion: to get proficient in anything one has to learn fundamentals, so I would forget about blogs, web posts, and would begin with a really good book. Unless you are already an expert in a sense you know fundamentals (but this question is the one that one can only answer by himself). Valeri ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Valeri Galtsev Sr System Administrator Department of Astronomy and Astrophysics Kavli Institute for Cosmological Physics University of Chicago Phone: 773-702-4247 ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
On Mon, 2015-02-09 at 13:28 -0800, Keith Keller wrote:> > On Mon, 2015-02-09 at 11:12 -0800, John R Pierce wrote: > >> > >> on a site hosted in Russia which appears to be FULL of copyright violations.> On 2015-02-09, Always Learning <centos at u64.u22.net> wrote: > > > > Probably not really a software pirate but an individual (and a keen > > cyclist) storing some old-ish PDFs on his own web site.> The PDF *itself* is still pirated. It has nothing whatsoever to do with > "software" piracy.> I don't even fully trust docs written by any third party until I can > cross-check it against official documentation. So I definitely do not > think it's okay to trust pirated documentation from a Russian site I > will never be able to know anything about.Keith neither of us know whether or not the Russian man obtained his PDF copy of the book lawfully. In my book-publishing opinion, the PDF appears to have originated from the book's publisher, so the original source must have been *the* official source. Hence the book, in the PDF version, must have been written by the official authors. The existence of an alleged unpaid-for copy on a foreign web site can not, in any sense whatsoever, denigrate, diminish nor deprecate the official authors distinguished achievement. There are poor people all around the world who enjoy computers including Linux and whom would benefit from learning more about Linux. Some who can read English sufficiently proficiently to benefit from the book's text, may be too poor to afford the, to them in their country, "exorbitant" Western price for an "official" copy. Some publishers recognise this reality and sell in third-world countries at a small fraction of the "Western" price. In those circumstances selling PDFs for an extremely low price may be the source of this particular PDF especially as hardbacks and paperbacks could never economically be sold as low as a very low cost "official" PDF copy. Depriving people of learning (also known as education) keeps them in political and economic subjugation to the detriment of the Human race. Would be nice to gain some support for the Centos Learning mailing list suggestion :-) -- Regards, Paul. England, EU. Je suis Charlie.
On Mon, 2015-02-09 at 15:54 -0600, Valeri Galtsev wrote:> Still, as I stressed in my original suggestion: to get proficient in > anything one has to learn fundamentals, so I would forget about blogs, > web posts, and would begin with a really good book. Unless you are > already an expert in a sense you know fundamentals (but this question > is the one that one can only answer by himself).I agree with Valeri's assertion that fundamental knowledge is more important than web post or blog snippets. When building a house, it is important the foundations are perfect and solid otherwise - if there are gaps in the structure supporting the building - that building is likely to be unstable. This analogy also applies to computer operating systems. -- Regards, Paul. England, EU. Je suis Charlie.
On Mon, Feb 09, 2015 at 10:10:35PM +0000, Always Learning wrote:> Keith neither of us know whether or not the Russian man obtained his PDF > copy of the book lawfully. In my book-publishing opinion, the PDF > appears to have originated from the book's publisher, so the original > source must have been *the* official source. Hence the book, in the PDF > version, must have been written by the official authors.Unless the guy who is posting the pirated PDF downloaded it from a shady site that inserts PDF viruses and whatnot. The point is, it's neither ethical nor safe to use this pirated copy. One of the authors, Evi Nemeth, was a really great and interesting person who I've heard speak at conferences. She also co-wrote the Linux Administration Handbook, which I read both editions years ago, so I can vouch for their quality. However, as computer books are most likely to do, they are quickly made out of date by the rapid pace of linux development (even Enterprise linuxes like CentOS). I learned my trade mostly through doing, watching other people do things, reading lists, and attending conferences, Linux Users Groups and other meetings of Linux admins. I love books, and continue to buy reference books for languages and favorite software tools, but I don't have any recent Linux books. -- Jonathan Billings <billings at negate.org>