hi, imho this list getting unusable! first of all there is an announce list for announcement but it seems centos team don''t use it and doesn''t want. what''s more if there is an update then we got about a dozen of messages about it since different arch and release have different mails. so it become a challange to find the "real" mails between announcements. it''s a well known and accepted policy in all packages/distros that there is/are a different announce list(s) and those who are intrested about it subscribe to it. those who would like to read only the list subscribe only to the list and some people to both. it''s not something new this is the way it''s happend in the last 20-30 years even for one simple packages. why can''t we follow this good schema? or at least try to do only ONE announcement per packages (like redhat do) and include all arch and release in it. just my 2c. -- Levente "Si vis pacem para bellum!"
Farkas Levente <lfarkas@bppiac.hu> writes:> what''s more if there is an update then we got about a dozen of > messages about it since different arch and release have different > mails. so it become a challange to find the "real" mails between > announcements.While you''re waiting for the Centos team to start doing this the way you want, you could always set up your own email software to filter and sort the messages, you know. The "errata" announcements are very easy to recognize, both colletively and per architecture, simply from the subject header. -tih -- Don''t ascribe to stupidity what can be adequately explained by ignorance.
On Tue, 2005-03-29 at 13:08 +0200, Farkas Levente wrote:> hi, > imho this list getting unusable! first of all there is an announce list > for announcement but it seems centos team don''t use it and doesn''t > want. what''s more if there is an update then we got about a dozen of > messages about it since different arch and release have different mails. > so it become a challange to find the "real" mails between announcements. > it''s a well known and accepted policy in all packages/distros that there > is/are a different announce list(s) and those who are intrested about it > subscribe to it. those who would like to read only the list subscribe > only to the list and some people to both. it''s not something new this is > the way it''s happend in the last 20-30 years even for one simple > packages. why can''t we follow this good schema? or at least try to do > only ONE announcement per packages (like redhat do) and include all arch > and release in it. > > just my 2c. >We have several different people doing several different distros all over the world. Some are going to be done before others. When there is a security problem, I don''t think that you want to wait until the last distro is done to announce the problem ... or to upload the files. (At least I certainly don''t want to wait until the CentOS-3.x S390x emulator is finished building a week after the update {or 12 hours for daylight in Australia or in the USA, depending on when it is announced} to release an announcement). If we push the files and not the announcements, then people complain that something is changed, but they don''t know why. If we don''t push the files and wait for the last distro to get done, people complain that the updates take too long. If we say we want an announce only list, people complain that it needs to be in both places (main list and announce list). If we put it in both places, people complain that it need to be split. bitch ... bitch ... bitch ... bitch ... bitch I have already said that we are in the middle of moving all the mailing lists to a centos.org domain (and splitting all other shared resources with cAos) and pointed to the announcement. The announce-list _IS_NOT_ACTIVE_RIGHT_NOW_ ... it is not on the official CentOS.org website, and has never been announced by a member of the CentOS Development team. Why is this so hard to understand? I wish we had 1000 paid people to get things done right away ... and had 1000 machines of each type in a centralized place (where those 1000 people provided 24/7 support), so all updates could be built at the same time and pushed at the same time. We don''t have either. So, to get the updates out in a timely fashion (by several people, all over the world), they have to be done separately. I am sorry if this is an inconvenience. These people are volunteers and are busting their ass to get these updates and announcements built and out in a timely fashion so they can be downloaded for free ... I am personally spending an average of 6 hours every day doing CentOS related activities, and I am sure others are spending as much or more time. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part Url : http://localhost.localdomain/pipermail/centos/attachments/20050329/1c7efd25/attachment.bin
Johnny Hughes wrote:>If we say we want an announce only list, people complain that it needs >to be in both places (main list and announce list). If we put it in >both places, people complain that it need to be split. > >bitch ... bitch ... bitch ... bitch ... bitch > >I have already said that we are in the middle of moving all the mailing >lists to a centos.org domain (and splitting all other shared resources >with cAos) and pointed to the announcement. The announce-list >_IS_NOT_ACTIVE_RIGHT_NOW_ ... it is not on the official CentOS.org >website, and has never been announced by a member of the CentOS >Development team. Why is this so hard to understand? > > >Shades of Theo there Johhny ! ;-) Keep up the good work.
> > what''s more if there is an update then we got about a dozen of > > messages about it since different arch and release have different > > mails. so it become a challange to find the "real" mails between > > announcements. > > While you''re waiting for the Centos team to start doing this the way > you want, you could always set up your own email software to filter > and sort the messages, you know. The "errata" announcements are very > easy to recognize, both colletively and per architecture, simply from > the subject header.Under the circumstances, it seems to me that subscribing "Enterprise-Watch-List" from www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/enterprise-watch-list may be a good alternative instead, because important security fixes are supposed to be released within 24 hours and even if not you can get SRPMs, then rebuild them. Regards. - Green -
On Tue, 2005-03-29 at 06:22 -0600, Johnny Hughes wrote:> We have several different people doing several different distros all > over the world. Some are going to be done before others. > > When there is a security problem, I don''t think that you want to wait > until the last distro is done to announce the problem ... or to upload > the files. (At least I certainly don''t want to wait until the CentOS-3.x > S390x emulator is finished building a week after the update {or 12 hours > for daylight in Australia or in the USA, depending on when it is > announced} to release an announcement). > > If we push the files and not the announcements, then people complain > that something is changed, but they don''t know why. If we don''t push > the files and wait for the last distro to get done, people complain that > the updates take too long. > > If we say we want an announce only list, people complain that it needs > to be in both places (main list and announce list). If we put it in > both places, people complain that it need to be split. > > bitch ... bitch ... bitch ... bitch ... bitch > > I have already said that we are in the middle of moving all the mailing > lists to a centos.org domain (and splitting all other shared resources > with cAos) and pointed to the announcement. The announce-list > _IS_NOT_ACTIVE_RIGHT_NOW_ ... it is not on the official CentOS.org > website, and has never been announced by a member of the CentOS > Development team. Why is this so hard to understand? > > I wish we had 1000 paid people to get things done right away ... and had > 1000 machines of each type in a centralized place (where those 1000 > people provided 24/7 support), so all updates could be built at the same > time and pushed at the same time. We don''t have either. So, to get the > updates out in a timely fashion (by several people, all over the world), > they have to be done separately. I am sorry if this is an > inconvenience. > > These people are volunteers and are busting their ass to get these > updates and announcements built and out in a timely fashion so they can > be downloaded for free ... I am personally spending an average of 6 > hours every day doing CentOS related activities, and I am sure others > are spending as much or more time.I''ll apologize for the above comments ... we are working to split out an announce list and stand up a new mailman server. Expect an announcement soon concerning the new list addresses and the new announce list. That said, regardless of how we setup the new lists, everyone is not going to be happy. Please understand that we are trying to do these things as fast as possible and that this is a community / volunteer (and not a paid / supported) project. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part Url : http://localhost.localdomain/pipermail/centos/attachments/20050329/be0adab3/attachment.bin