asterisk users - Jun 2017 - OT: Explain where mailing list bouncing comes from ?

Another "me too" (also Gmail).

     I just received my 4th "account suspended, too many bounces"
email,
after having several days of lost mailing list content over a short
vacation break the last time.  When I notified the admin email account of
the failure, it seemed the responder missed the point about the emails,
saying the link had expired (it had been more than three days since I had
checked Gmail) - not seeming to notice that there was a problem with users
having errant email bounce account suspensions.

Whatever has been done, if anything, isn't working effectively.  At this
point I'd like to see some response from the mailing list admin about any
root-cause efforts, AFAIC this is starting to smear the Digium/Asterisk
brand's ability to handle IT related issues...  No response = no confidence
vote.

-Tim


On Tue, Jun 13, 2017 at 7:04 AM, Patrick L Archibald (PLA) ? ? <
patrick.archibald at gmail.com> wrote:
> Me too. Also gmail.
> R?ck on, PLA
>
> Patrick L Archibald
> http://PatrickArchibald.com
>
>
> On Mon, Jun 12, 2017 at 4:26 AM, Jonathan H <lardconcepts at
gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > Me too, also gmail. I emailed the list owner a couple of days ago, but
> no reply.
> >
> > Is everyone else affected also forwarding to another email address
> > (gmail or not)?
> >
> > Could be wrong, but I'm guessing there may be an incorrect DMARC
> > policy somewhere - although this is the only fail I could find in the
> > headers.
> >
> > bounces at lists.digium.com;
> >        dmarc=fail (p=NONE sp=NONE dis=NONE) header.from=gmail.com
> >
> >
> >
> > On 12 June 2017 at 09:12, Steve Davies <davies147 at gmail.com>
wrote:
> >> I am also getting this, three or four times in the last month
after
> years of
> >> no problems.
> >>
> >> I agree that Gmail is the likely common factor, but I would love
to have
> >> access to these bounce messages to know whether it is actually an
> >> overly-paranoid list server!
> >>
> >> Steve
> >>
> >> On Mon, 12 Jun 2017 at 09:09 Andrew Furey <andrew.furey at
gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Ditto; a Gmail issue?
> >>>
> >>> Andrew
> >>>
> >>> On 12 June 2017 at 16:00, Marcelo Terres <mhterres at
gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> It is happening the same with me.
> >>>>
> >>>> Regards,
> >>>> Marcelo H. Terres <mhterres at gmail.com>
> >>>> IM: mhterres at jabber.mundoopensource.com.br
> >>>> https://www.mundoopensource.com.br
> >>>> https://twitter.com/mhterres
> >>>> https://linkedin.com/in/marceloterres
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> On 12 June 2017 at 08:07, Olivier <oza.4h07 at
gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>> > Hello,
> >>>> >
> >>>> > I'm a faithful reader of this mailing list, for
several years now.
> >>>> >
> >>>> > Lately, I'm receiving emails asking me to
re-enable my list
> >>>> > subscription due
> >>>> > to "excessive bouncing".
> >>>> >
> >>>> > What does this exactly mean and why am I receiving
this ?
> >>>> > Beside re-enabling my subscription, what can I do to
improve things
> ?
> >>>> >
> >>>> > Regards
> >>>> >
> >>>> > --
> >>>> >
____________________________________________________________
> _________
> >>>> > -- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by
http://www.api-digital.com
> --
> >>>> >
> >>>> > Check out the new Asterisk community forum at:
> >>>> > https://community.asterisk.org/
> >>>> >
> >>>> > New to Asterisk? Start here:
> >>>> >      
https://wiki.asterisk.org/wiki/display/AST/Getting+Started
> >>>> >
> >>>> > asterisk-users mailing list
> >>>> > To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
> >>>> >   
http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
> >>>>
> >>>> --
> >>>>
_____________________________________________________________________
> >>>> -- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by
http://www.api-digital.com --
> >>>>
> >>>> Check out the new Asterisk community forum at:
> >>>> https://community.asterisk.org/
> >>>>
> >>>> New to Asterisk? Start here:
> >>>>      
https://wiki.asterisk.org/wiki/display/AST/Getting+Started
> >>>>
> >>>> asterisk-users mailing list
> >>>> To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
> >>>>    http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> Linux supports the notion of a command line or a shell for the
same
> >>> reason that only children read books with only pictures in
them.
> >>> Language, be it English or something else, is the only tool
flexible
> >>> enough to accomplish a sufficiently broad range of tasks.
> >>>                           -- Bill Garrett
> >>> --
> >>>
_____________________________________________________________________
> >>> -- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by
http://www.api-digital.com --
> >>>
> >>> Check out the new Asterisk community forum at:
> >>> https://community.asterisk.org/
> >>>
> >>> New to Asterisk? Start here:
> >>>      
https://wiki.asterisk.org/wiki/display/AST/Getting+Started
> >>>
> >>> asterisk-users mailing list
> >>> To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
> >>>    http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >>
_____________________________________________________________________
> >> -- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com
--
> >>
> >> Check out the new Asterisk community forum at:
> >> https://community.asterisk.org/
> >>
> >> New to Asterisk? Start here:
> >>       https://wiki.asterisk.org/wiki/display/AST/Getting+Started
> >>
> >> asterisk-users mailing list
> >> To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
> >>    http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
> >
> > --
> > _____________________________________________________________________
> > -- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com --
> >
> > Check out the new Asterisk community forum at:
> https://community.asterisk.org/
> >
> > New to Asterisk? Start here:
> >       https://wiki.asterisk.org/wiki/display/AST/Getting+Started
> >
> > asterisk-users mailing list
> > To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
> >    http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
>
> --
> _____________________________________________________________________
> -- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com --
>
> Check out the new Asterisk community forum at: https://community.asterisk.
> org/
>
> New to Asterisk? Start here:
>       https://wiki.asterisk.org/wiki/display/AST/Getting+Started
>
> asterisk-users mailing list
> To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
>    http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
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On Thursday 15 Jun 2017, Tim S wrote:
> Whatever has been done, if anything, isn't working effectively.  At
this
> point I'd like to see some response from the mailing list admin about
any
> root-cause efforts, AFAIC this is starting to smear the Digium/Asterisk
> brand's ability to handle IT related issues...  No response = no
confidence
> vote.
It's hardly Digium's fault, if Google have decided that playing nicely
with
syntactically-valid messages doesn't fit their business model  (which is to 
know everything about everyone; purely in order to push them the
"right"
advertisements, in spite of whatever uses less other actors with less benign 
intentions might make of this information, of course).  

The cure is to pay for a proper e-mail hosting service.  "Free"
services such
as Gmail are overpriced.

-- 
JM or AJS

Note:  Originating address only accepts e-mail from list!  If replying off-
list, change address to asterisk1list at earthshod dot co dot uk .

On 16 June 2017 at 08:38, J Montoya or A J Stiles
<asterisk_list at earthshod.co.uk> wrote:
> It's hardly Digium's fault, if Google have decided that playing
nicely with
> syntactically-valid messages doesn't fit their business model
Not really Gmail's fault, either.  Someone above said they had the
same problem with Comcast.net.

Gmail complies with the relevant RFCs just fine. It's most likely
simply because most people who use email, use Gmail.

In addition, gmail properly implement SPF and DMARC checking.

There's over 1 billion gmail account as of 2016, so that's why most
people who are bouncing would be gmail.

On Fri, Jun 16, 2017 at 08:38:59AM +0100, J Montoya or A J Stiles
wrote:
> > Whatever has been done, if anything, isn't working effectively. 
At this
> > point I'd like to see some response from the mailing list admin
about any
> > root-cause efforts, AFAIC this is starting to smear the
Digium/Asterisk
> > brand's ability to handle IT related issues...  No response = no
confidence
> > vote.
> 
> It's hardly Digium's fault,
Actually it is. They are pretending to send email from our/your/my
emailadresses without taking the proper steps how to do this in a modern
age.

[snip google rant]

DMARC reports inform me that most rejections come from Google (500+),
Microsoft has far far less rejection (less than 10 IIRC), then comcast
and some other mail providers. It is just that most people (choose) use
Google, get over it.

What Google (and many many others) is doing is for the benifit of reducing
email spoofing and spam. Proper SPF/DKIM/DMARC are a must if you want to
send mail to the big parties. The time you could simply run your own
smtpd without any cares are long since gone, you need to comply to
current SMTP related RFCs to get mail accepted.

I'm still maintaining the idea that simply enabling DKIM signing on this
list solves the problem. It is supported by the MTAs I can see in the
headers and I linked to a howto in the past.

But Digium doesn't need to have this kind of knowledge, their business
is not SMTP based but SIP based (and I think they are great at that
business). But since the mailinglists are supplemental support services
it would be in their best interest to fix this mess in some way.