I''ve been mulling over an idea for a book covering Ruby on Rails application deployment. Obvious topics include using Mongrel by itself and with Apache/Lighttpd, load balancers, memcached, and Capistrano. What other topics would you like to see covered in such a book? Cheers, -- Dave Murphy (Schwuk) http://schwuk.com
On 8/31/06, Dave Murphy <schwuk at gmail.com> wrote:> I''ve been mulling over an idea for a book covering Ruby on Rails > application deployment. Obvious topics include using Mongrel by itself > and with Apache/Lighttpd, load balancers, memcached, and Capistrano. > > What other topics would you like to see covered in such a book?Isn''t Ezra releasing a book like this soon? You might want to check out what''s covered there and see what''s missing. -- James
Dave... a few thoughts; Deployment architectures - logical - newtork - hardware Session management Performance tuning Problem solving in production Disaster recovery (or preparation for!) Deployment case studies e.g. - initial deployments - re-architecture - scaleing James --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
On 31/08/06, James Ludlow <jamesludlow-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> wrote:> Isn''t Ezra releasing a book like this soon? You might want to check > out what''s covered there and see what''s missing.Thank you - I wasn''t aware that one was already being authored. Guess mine will have to be a bit more specialised! Cheers, -- Dave Murphy (Schwuk) http://schwuk.com --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
On 31/08/06, J2M <james2mccarthy-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> wrote:> Dave... a few thoughts;Thank you. -- Dave Murphy (Schwuk) http://schwuk.com --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
2006/8/31, James Ludlow <jamesludlow@gmail.com>:> > I've been mulling over an idea for a book covering Ruby > > on Rails application deployment. Obvious topics include > > using Mongrel by itself and with Apache/Lighttpd, load > > balancers, memcached, and Capistrano. > > > What other topics would you like to see covered in such a book? > > Isn't Ezra releasing a book like this soon? You might want to check > out what's covered there and see what's missing.Jamie Buck, Aaron Huslage and Obie Fernandez are preparing also a book about Capistrano for Addison Wesley : http://jamis.jamisbuck.org/articles/2006/03/18/got-a-snazzy-capistrano-recipe -- Jean-François. -- À la renverse. --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-unsubscribe@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
rom: "Dave Murphy" <schwuk at gmail.com>>Reply-To: mongrel-users at rubyforge.org >To: mongrel-users at rubyforge.org, rubyonrails-talk at googlegroups.com >Subject: [Mongrel] Rails Deployment Book >Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2006 15:44:35 +0100 > >I''ve been mulling over an idea for a book covering Ruby on Rails >application deployment. Obvious topics include using Mongrel by itself >and with Apache/Lighttpd, load balancers, memcached, and Capistrano. > >What other topics would you like to see covered in such a book? > >Cheers, >-- >Dave Murphy (Schwuk) >http://schwuk.com >_______________________________________________ >Mongrel-users mailing list >Mongrel-users at rubyforge.org >http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/mongrel-usersIntegration/setup with Tomcat/Apache so you can run java webapps also..
On Thu, Aug 31, 2006 at 03:44:35PM +0100, Dave Murphy wrote:> What other topics would you like to see covered in such a book?More than anything else, what to do when things go wrong. This comes in two parts: The first is a concise overview of the model... of how the pieces interact. For example, what does pound do when the server it is talking to times out? Without a model in your head, diagnosing problems is just guesswork. And the second part: What do the experts do when it doesn''t work? Which log do you check first? What do you do to learn more when the log doesn''t make the problem obvious to you?
+1 -Michael http://javathehutt.blogspot.com On Aug 31, 2006, at 9:40 AM, Wayne Conrad wrote:> On Thu, Aug 31, 2006 at 03:44:35PM +0100, Dave Murphy wrote: >> What other topics would you like to see covered in such a book? > > More than anything else, what to do when things go wrong. > > This comes in two parts: > > The first is a concise overview of the model... of how the pieces > interact. For example, what does pound do when the server it is > talking to times out? Without a model in your head, diagnosing > problems is just guesswork. > > And the second part: > > What do the experts do when it doesn''t work? Which log do you check > first? What do you do to learn more when the log doesn''t make the > problem obvious to you? > _______________________________________________ > Mongrel-users mailing list > Mongrel-users at rubyforge.org > http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/mongrel-users
On Aug 31, 2006, at 7:57 AM, James Ludlow wrote:> On 8/31/06, Dave Murphy <schwuk at gmail.com> wrote: >> I''ve been mulling over an idea for a book covering Ruby on Rails >> application deployment. Obvious topics include using Mongrel by >> itself >> and with Apache/Lighttpd, load balancers, memcached, and Capistrano. >> >> What other topics would you like to see covered in such a book? > > Isn''t Ezra releasing a book like this soon? You might want to check > out what''s covered there and see what''s missing. > > -- James > _______________________________________________ > Mongrel-users mailing list > Mongrel-users at rubyforge.org > http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/mongrel-usersYeah guys my book will be out in beta around the end of this month. It covers mongrel in depth and also covers pretty much any viable option for deployment on other servers as well. Also covering the theory behind what makes rails tick and how to scale it in a sane way. Plus all the goodies like memcached and friends. Its been in the works for a long time but thats because I keep changing it to keep up with the times. Stay tuned, Dave Thomas already sent out the distributor info packet and stated that the printed book will ship in November so I guess I have a real deadline now ;) Cheers- -Ezra
Maybe I am a bit too new to the whole Rails scene (i.e. I am still getting my feet wet and I haven''t looked at Capistrano yet), but Rails appears to assume too much that you as a Rails developer also own and control/have access to the target system on which the Rails app will be installed. In enterprise software you are often making applications with Web interfaces that are installed on a corporate network by that companies staff. The application in this case needs to be self contained in an OS installer (MSI, RPM) and be able to update itself, or be updated. You also need to be able to install dependencies if unavailable (like Ruby and all the gems you need) and possibly interact with software firewalls. Rails seems to totally leave you out in the cold here. --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
On 8/31/06, Richard Conroy <richard.conroy-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> wrote:> > Maybe I am a bit too new to the whole Rails scene (i.e. I am still getting > my feet wet and I haven''t looked at Capistrano yet), but Rails appears > to assume too much that you as a Rails developer also own and > control/have access to the target system on which the Rails app will > be installed. > > In enterprise software you are often making applications with Web > interfaces that are installed on a corporate network by that companies > staff. > > The application in this case needs to be self contained in an OS > installer (MSI, RPM) and be able to update itself, or be updated. You > also need to be able to install dependencies if unavailable (like Ruby > and all the gems you need) and possibly interact with software > firewalls. > > Rails seems to totally leave you out in the cold here.Rails is developed by folks in small teams, so the tools tend to favor that mindset. I don''t think anyone in the core team would be a good fit to write deployment tools for enterprise railers. These tools need to be written by the very folks that need them. -- Rick Olson http://weblog.techno-weenie.net http://mephistoblog.com --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
If an in-depth book is due in the forseeable future, what about a cookbook then ? I would kill for a "Rails Deployment and Scaling Receipes" That would enable me to start from scratch from a bare hosted Linux Box and be up and running quickly. Being in harmony with the "Run first, understand later" that makes it so easy for people to gain a very posisitive first experience with RoR will take many enthousiasts past the Webrick stage. Anyway whatever book that may render RoR deployement less intimidating (more PHP-like) will be a significant accelerating factor for RoR adoption and is likely to become a best-seller. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://rubyforge.org/pipermail/mongrel-users/attachments/20060831/e97368de/attachment.html
On 8/31/06, Ezra Zygmuntowicz <ezmobius at gmail.com> wrote:> > Yeah guys my book will be out in beta around the end of this month. > It covers mongrel in depth and also covers pretty much any viable > option for deployment on other servers as well. Also covering the > theory behind what makes rails tick and how to scale it in a sane > way. Plus all the goodies like memcached and friends. Its been in the > works for a long time but thats because I keep changing it to keep up > with the times. > > Stay tuned, Dave Thomas already sent out the distributor info packet > and stated that the printed book will ship in November so I guess I > have a real deadline now ;)I''m looking forward to seeing the beta version. By any chance, do you specifically cover strategies for load-balanced web servers with apps that use file_column for uploads? Synchronization in general between load-balanced apps would be a good topic. -- James
@Richard: Slightly OT If a company is going to use Rails then they are going to invest in the infrastructure to deploy Rails applications which means they will install Ruby and dependencies. Specific gems and versions of Rails can be packaged (frozen) with the application. Applications can be distributed as GEMs or (much better in my opinion) distributed into production by automated builds from a version control system. Automatied processes are better because they''re less prone to error. The point is that in order for Rails to succeed, the PEOPLE and PROCESSES have to change. It''s not Rails'' fault that an organization has certain requirements on deployment. Rails can work very well in the enterprise and deployment is very easy once you lay the groundwork. On 8/31/06, Richard Conroy <richard.conroy-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> wrote:> > > Maybe I am a bit too new to the whole Rails scene (i.e. I am still getting > my feet wet and I haven''t looked at Capistrano yet), but Rails appears > to assume too much that you as a Rails developer also own and > control/have access to the target system on which the Rails app will > be installed. > > In enterprise software you are often making applications with Web > interfaces that are installed on a corporate network by that companies > staff. > > The application in this case needs to be self contained in an OS > installer (MSI, RPM) and be able to update itself, or be updated. You > also need to be able to install dependencies if unavailable (like Ruby > and all the gems you need) and possibly interact with software > firewalls. > > Rails seems to totally leave you out in the cold here. > > > >--~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
On Aug 31, 2006, at 11:12 AM, James Ludlow wrote:> On 8/31/06, Ezra Zygmuntowicz <ezmobius at gmail.com> wrote: >> >> Yeah guys my book will be out in beta around the end of >> this month. >> It covers mongrel in depth and also covers pretty much any viable >> option for deployment on other servers as well. Also covering the >> theory behind what makes rails tick and how to scale it in a sane >> way. Plus all the goodies like memcached and friends. Its been in the >> works for a long time but thats because I keep changing it to keep up >> with the times. >> >> Stay tuned, Dave Thomas already sent out the distributor >> info packet >> and stated that the printed book will ship in November so I guess I >> have a real deadline now ;) > > I''m looking forward to seeing the beta version. > > By any chance, do you specifically cover strategies for load-balanced > web servers with apps that use file_column for uploads? > Synchronization in general between load-balanced apps would be a good > topic. > > > -- JamesJames- Yeah I cover clustered setups and will cover the file_column or acts_as_attachment situation with asset hosts and all that jazz. Also the beta will be around 8-10 chapters and then the printed book will have 15 or so. So as soon as the beta is out I will be listening to my readers to see exactly what they want the rest of the book to cover. So if I miss anything, I will have some time to make sure it gets in to the final book. Gotta love the beta books from the Prag''s. Cheers- -Ezra
On Aug 31, 2006, at 11:10 AM, philippe lachaise wrote:> If an in-depth book is due in the forseeable future, what about a > cookbook then ? > > I would kill for a "Rails Deployment and Scaling Receipes" That > would enable me to start from scratch from a bare hosted Linux Box > and be up and running quickly. > > Being in harmony with the "Run first, understand later" that makes > it so easy for people to gain a very posisitive first experience > with RoR will take many enthousiasts past the Webrick stage. > > Anyway whatever book that may render RoR deployement less > intimidating (more PHP-like) will be a significant accelerating > factor for RoR adoption and is likely to become a best-seller. > _______________________________________________ > Mongrel-users mailing list > Mongrel-users at rubyforge.org > http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/mongrel-usersMy book has a chapter that will take you thru setting up a debian rails server from scratch. It tries to cover the theory along the way as you set things up but you can just use it without knowing what your doing if thats the way you want to go I guess ;) Also with the great beta book program from the Prag''s I will be able to make sure that the final printed book covers everything people want to see if I missed anything in the beta. Cheers- -Ezra
On Don 31.08.2006 10:41, Ezra Zygmuntowicz wrote:> > Yeah guys my book will be out in beta around the end of this >month. It covers mongrel in depth and also covers pretty much any >viable option for deployment on other servers as well. Also covering >the theory behind what makes rails tick and how to scale it in a sane >way. Plus all the goodies like memcached and friends. Its been in the >works for a long time but thats because I keep changing it to keep up >with the times.Do you cover only rails or also some other frameworks such as nitro ;-)?! Regrads Alex
Whoa... topic drift, I''ll get my skis... Rails is successful already, rails will be deployed. Good experiences are valuable to share as are bad experiences too; a streetmap of what is around now that works or doesn''t is incredibly valuable. Regarding big business, small business, mindsets and processes it isn''t worth speculating. If people want something bad enough they will build it and the process and practices and skills will spring up whether the core team are involved or even care. In the corner of an almost forgotten bit of my mind I have a recollection of people in large corporations saying Windows will never be used in here... there are no process and people to support that hobbyist toy! There was a time when Linux had no corporate supporters. History. Irrespective of how things appear now just watch it change. So if somebody wants to write a book on making this great framework work in the places people currently want to deploy it go for it... After all... tomorrow is another day.... --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
On 8/31/06, Richard Conroy <richard.conroy-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> wrote:> > Maybe I am a bit too new to the whole Rails scene (i.e. I am still getting > my feet wet and I haven''t looked at Capistrano yet), but Rails appears > to assume too much that you as a Rails developer also own and > control/have access to the target system on which the Rails app will > be installed. > > In enterprise software you are often making applications with Web > interfaces that are installed on a corporate network by that companies > staff. > > The application in this case needs to be self contained in an OS > installer (MSI, RPM) and be able to update itself, or be updated. You > also need to be able to install dependencies if unavailable (like Ruby > and all the gems you need) and possibly interact with software > firewalls. > > Rails seems to totally leave you out in the cold here. > > > >Richard, A recent post by Jamis discusses just this very thing... http://jamis.jamisbuck.org/articles/2006/08/30/the-future-of-capistrano -- Zack Chandler http://depixelate.com --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
Why not use gems? Use the fossilize plug in to pack up your rails app and voila Any corporate sys admin should be able to install that That .. or a live rails cd ;) -----Original Message----- From: rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org [mailto:rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Zack Chandler Sent: Thursday, August 31, 2006 2:07 PM To: rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org Subject: [Rails] Re: Rails Deployment Book On 8/31/06, Richard Conroy <richard.conroy-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> wrote:> > Maybe I am a bit too new to the whole Rails scene (i.e. I am still getting > my feet wet and I haven''t looked at Capistrano yet), but Rails appears > to assume too much that you as a Rails developer also own and > control/have access to the target system on which the Rails app will > be installed. > > In enterprise software you are often making applications with Web > interfaces that are installed on a corporate network by that companies > staff. > > The application in this case needs to be self contained in an OS > installer (MSI, RPM) and be able to update itself, or be updated. You > also need to be able to install dependencies if unavailable (like Ruby > and all the gems you need) and possibly interact with software > firewalls. > > Rails seems to totally leave you out in the cold here. > > > >Richard, A recent post by Jamis discusses just this very thing... http://jamis.jamisbuck.org/articles/2006/08/30/the-future-of-capistrano -- Zack Chandler http://depixelate.com --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
On Thu, 2006-08-31 at 15:44 +0100, Dave Murphy wrote:> I''ve been mulling over an idea for a book covering Ruby on Rails > application deployment. Obvious topics include using Mongrel by itself > and with Apache/Lighttpd, load balancers, memcached, and Capistrano.Dave, Ezra''s already got a book coming out on that topic and I''m supposed to be helping with a tiny one for just Mongrel tweaking. This duplication of course hasn''t stopped publishers from flooding the market with the exact same books anyway, so feel free to pitch your idea to one of them. :-) I do have some alternative suggestions though, based on what I think people need next: * Rails Security -- Just a book on the common web app security issues but focused on Rails, with a good section on auditing that we can make rails-core read. * Teaching Rails -- A "train the trainers" book, probably really small for people who are experienced in Rails and Ruby but must now teach a bunch of noobs. I will only buy this book if David A. Black writes it. * Database Design for Rails -- A basic theory book in ER design and how Rails does it, geared toward the mass of people who cowboy their databases with migrations until everything mostly works. * Search In Rails -- Small book on search using Hyper Estraier, Ferret, and other search frameworks and how to integrate with Rails easily. * The Other Frameworks -- Bad name, but basically Camping, Nitro, Wee, and IOWA. Heavy on their design and Ruby, less on using them. * The Tao of Modern System Management -- I am so sick and tired of lame system administrators who do not automate their management tasks and act as troll gatekeepers making it impossible for me to do my job. I''d love nothing more than a book and a bunch of software that puts a good 90% of these idiots out of work. It happened to developers with recent process improvement movements, it''s high time something similar happened to system administrators. Theme of this book would be "if you manually ssh into any machine YOU''RE FIRED!" * The Te of Performance Measurement -- I guess I have to write this one, but basically a book on modern statistically based performance measurement techniques from the perspective of Statistical Quality Control. * Rails on Win32 -- Windows is so painful for Rails, maybe a little PDF book would help. That should get people talking. -- Zed A. Shaw http://www.zedshaw.com/ http://mongrel.rubyforge.org/ http://www.lingr.com/room/3yXhqKbfPy8 -- Come get help.
I think I''ll write a book about how there seems to be too many Ruby/Rails books coming out, and the abundance of which is making it start to feel like Java (whose books can collapse book shelves). Joe __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
That''s the best one yet! On Aug 31, 2006, at 7:00 PM, Joe Ruby wrote:> I think I''ll write a book about how there seems to be > too many Ruby/Rails books coming out, and the > abundance of which is making it start to feel like > Java (whose books can collapse book shelves). > > Joe > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com > _______________________________________________ > Mongrel-users mailing list > Mongrel-users at rubyforge.org > http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/mongrel-users
> -------Original Message------- > From: Jamie Orchard-Hays <jamie at dangosaur.us> > Subject: Re: [Mongrel] Rails Deployment Book > Sent: Aug 31 ''06 17:08 > > That''s the best one yet! > On n 31, 2006, at 7:00 PM, Joe Ruby wrote: > > > I think I''ll write a book about how there seems to be > > too many Ruby/Rails books coming out, and the > > abundance of which is making it start to feel like > > Java (whose books can collapse book shelves). > > > > JoeWhat, are books about ruby on rails not web 2.0 enough? On a more serious note, I am very glad there is this level of documentation with rails. If anything, no one has yet written a good book on how to deploy a enterprise level application under rails. yes there is ruby in the enterprise. All that book acomplishes is showing one how to replace perl more then anything else. I am disapointed in the lack of libre documentation on rails in relation to !libre. BTW has anyone considered starting a wikibook on mongrel on the wikimedia foundation project? Andrew
I think there''s gonna be a good deal of overlap in the material, especially amongst different publishers. Ruby in the Enterprise? Can''t 37 Signals example be used? Can''t be that hard to figure out and setup... I don''t know what you mean by "not Web 2.0 enough." Joe ---> -------Original Message------- > From: Jamie Orchard-Hays <jamie at dangosaur.us> > Subject: Re: [Mongrel] Rails Deployment Book > Sent: Aug 31 ''06 17:08 > > That''s the best one yet! > On n 31, 2006, at 7:00 PM, Joe Ruby wrote: > > > I think I''ll write a book about how there seemsto be> > too many Ruby/Rails books coming out, and the > > abundance of which is making it start to feellike> > Java (whose books can collapse book shelves). > > > > JoeWhat, are books about ruby on rails not web 2.0 enough? On a more serious note, I am very glad there is this level of documentation with rails. If anything, no one has yet written a good book on how to deploy a enterprise level application under rails. yes there is ruby in the enterprise. All that book acomplishes is showing one how to replace perl more then anything else. I am disapointed in the lack of libre documentation on rails in relation to !libre. BTW has anyone considered starting a wikibook on mongrel on the wikimedia foundation project? Andrew __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
On 31/08/06, Zed Shaw <zedshaw at zedshaw.com> wrote:> I do have some alternative suggestions though, based on what I think > people need next:<snip /> Zed, Excellent suggestions. Thanks. -- Dave Murphy (Schwuk) http://schwuk.com
On 01/09/06, Joe Ruby <joeat303 at yahoo.com> wrote:> I think I''ll write a book about how there seems to be > too many Ruby/Rails books coming out, and the > abundance of which is making it start to feel like > Java (whose books can collapse book shelves).+1 Nicely put Joe! -- Dave Murphy (Schwuk) http://schwuk.com
On 31/08/06, Zed Shaw <zedshaw at zedshaw.com> wrote:> Ezra''s already got a book coming out on that topic and I''m supposed to > be helping with a tiny one for just Mongrel tweaking. This duplication > of course hasn''t stopped publishers from flooding the market with the > exact same books anyway, so feel free to pitch your idea to one of > them. :-)I was discussing the idea with a publisher when I discovered Ezra''s book. We''ve decided not to compete directly, but a more focused title (most likely around Mongrel) may still be in the works. -- Dave Murphy (Schwuk) http://schwuk.com
Link to info on Ezra''s book http://www.pragmaticprogrammer.com/titles/fr_deploy/index.html On 8/31/06, James Ludlow <jamesludlow-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> wrote:> > > On 8/31/06, Dave Murphy <schwuk-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> wrote: > > I''ve been mulling over an idea for a book covering Ruby on Rails > > application deployment. Obvious topics include using Mongrel by itself > > and with Apache/Lighttpd, load balancers, memcached, and Capistrano. > > > > What other topics would you like to see covered in such a book? > > Isn''t Ezra releasing a book like this soon? You might want to check > out what''s covered there and see what''s missing. > > -- James > > > >--~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
> Ruby in the Enterprise? Can''t 37 Signals example be > used? Can''t be that hard to figure out and setup...What? 37 Signals is an enterprise? Since when?!?!? I want book on Rails for COBOL programmers. Mostly for the museum. That''s where the enterprise belongs anyway :^) ~K
Okay, then what IS enterprise? Joe ---> Ruby in the Enterprise? Can''t 37 Signals example be > used? Can''t be that hard to figure out and setup...What? 37 Signals is an enterprise? Since when?!?!? __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enterprise_architecture http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enterprise_software On Aug 31, 2006, at 5:31 PM, Joe Ruby wrote:> Okay, then what IS enterprise?
Recovering from my eyes glazing over, a Rails in the Enterprise book seems silly since DHH and the rest of core have no aspirations to be "enterprise." Joe --- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enterprise_architecture http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enterprise_software On Aug 31, 2006, at 5:31 PM, Joe Ruby wrote:> Okay, then what IS enterprise?__________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
On 8/31/06, Joe Ruby <joeat303 at yahoo.com> wrote:> Okay, then what IS enterprise?For a StarTrek fan, not knowning what is Enterprise is blasfemy! ;-) Anyway, the "Enterprisy" thing is too hyped, Enterprise Edition, Business 2 Business, marketing bluf. What you need to know from a tool is: could I start form zero? I mean, with small things? It could be adaptable/scalable for greater things later during the process? Maybe 1 year from now, it could be maintainable? could be bug fixed? feature enhanced? THAT''s worth more than "Enterprise" labels.> > Joe > > --- > > Ruby in the Enterprise? Can''t 37 Signals example be > > used? Can''t be that hard to figure out and setup... > > What? 37 Signals is an enterprise? Since when?!?!? > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com > _______________________________________________ > Mongrel-users mailing list > Mongrel-users at rubyforge.org > http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/mongrel-users >-- Luis Lavena Multimedia systems - Leaders are made, they are not born. They are made by hard effort, which is the price which all of us must pay to achieve any goal that is worthwhile. Vince Lombardi
On 8/31/06, kigsteronline at mac.com <kigsteronline at mac.com> wrote:> > Ruby in the Enterprise? Can''t 37 Signals example be > > used? Can''t be that hard to figure out and setup... > > What? 37 Signals is an enterprise? Since when?!?!? > > I want book on Rails for COBOL programmers. Mostly for the museum. > That''s where the enterprise belongs anyway :^) >I actually taught a short Ruby and Rails class for COBOL and Algol programmers. Crazy stuff.
On Aug 31, 2006, at 10:16 PM, Wilson Bilkovich wrote:> On 8/31/06, kigsteronline at mac.com <kigsteronline at mac.com> wrote: >>> Ruby in the Enterprise? Can''t 37 Signals example be >>> used? Can''t be that hard to figure out and setup... >> >> What? 37 Signals is an enterprise? Since when?!?!? >> >> I want book on Rails for COBOL programmers. Mostly for the museum. >> That''s where the enterprise belongs anyway :^) >> > > I actually taught a short Ruby and Rails class for COBOL and Algol > programmers. > Crazy stuff.There needs to be one for PHP hand-written-SQL-at-the-top-of-views programmers. The subtitle should be ''Just because you can doesn''t mean you should'' Also, the book that Zed mentioned he was helping with was the one I am writing for Prentice Hall. It should be out by RubyConf. It will cover Mongrel, configuring, running and extending it, writing handlers and plugins, and some best practice configs for server setups. It will not have extensive deployment info, as that topic merits its own shelf. http://www.informit.com/shortcuts Matt> _______________________________________________ > Mongrel-users mailing list > Mongrel-users at rubyforge.org > http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/mongrel-users >==================Matt Pelletier EastMedia t. 212-921-8413 x3# m. 917-902-2525 f. 212-239-4114 w. www.eastmedia.com
>> What you need to know from a tool is: could I start form zero? I mean, >> with small things? >> It could be adaptable/scalable for greater things later during theprocess?>> Maybe 1 year from now, it could be maintainable? could be bug fixed? >> feature enhanced?This entirely describes my own expectations. Can anywone write the book that answers this set of questions ? Count me as a buyer. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://rubyforge.org/pipermail/mongrel-users/attachments/20060901/c3d7b6b2/attachment.html
On 8/31/06, Brian Hogan <bphogan-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> wrote:> @Richard: > Slightly OT > > If a company is going to use Rails then they are going to invest in the > infrastructure to deploy Rails applications which means they will install > Ruby and dependencies. Specific gems and versions of Rails can be packaged > (frozen) with the application.Brian, I probably wasn''t fully clear about what I meant. I am talking precisely about situations where a company manufactures software for general consumption, or for a specific company, and the technology that it is implemented in is practically invisible to the target consumer. -its got a web interface -you install it on a server Its highly desirable in these cases to minimally impact the user during setup, and quietly sort out the application dependencies. It may ultimately be a .NET, Java or Rails app, but the user just clicks through the install of the CLR, JRE or Ruby Interpreter and other binaries.> Applications can be distributed as GEMs or (much better in my opinion) > distributed into production by automated builds from a version control > system. Automatied processes are better because they''re less prone to error.I am talking about scenarios where the comsumer of the software doesn''t have access to your source. You also don''t want the customers first exposure to Ruby Gems to be in your install procedure.> The point is that in order for Rails to succeed, the PEOPLE and PROCESSES > have to change. It''s not Rails'' fault that an organization has certain > requirements on deployment. Rails can work very well in the enterprise and > deployment is very easy once you lay the groundwork.You shouldn''t have to boil the ocean. I don''t see why customers should shoulder the effort of getting our product to work, if we write it in Rails. But mostly I am trying to figure out why this is difficult to do or even contentious. Your application requires certain dependencies, so you wrap it all up in something that conveniently deploys them. Sure, deploying to the web requires specialist knowledge, and that kind of handholding is a nuisance there. My intended use of Rails (to make management software) is pretty remote from its original intended use. But I don''t think it is incompatible. There would be a higher proportion of pure Ruby code than a ''classic'' Rails app for example, but the performance requirements are much lower. But I need to get around this deployment hump. Good guidelines for doing this would really help: how to package your Rails app in a single setup (like a shrinkwrap or downloadable app) and how to update the setup would be good ideas for a Rails deployment book. --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
> Isn''t Ezra releasing a book like this soon? You might want to check > out what''s covered there and see what''s missing.Here''s the link: http://www.pragmaticprogrammer.com/titles/fr_deploy/index.html --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
@Richard: I see... you''re talking about things like Microsoft''s OWA, Sharepoint, things of that nature then. Not impossible at all... all of the pieces are there. On Windows, it''d be really easy with some simple scripts. Gems can be installed silently, Mongrel runs as a service, MySQL can be manually installed. You may even consider modifying InstantRails to include your application so it''s all a one-click installation. On Linux you could just distribute a package much in the same way. The thing is, a lot of companies I deal with don''t bother.... they want me to use *my* web server, *my* database server. When you pay $20,000 for a software package, they often times even come out and help with the installation as part of the price. Interesting topic though.... might warrant further investigation. Just keep in mind that if the need is actually there and enough people have the desire to do something similar, someone will devise a solution. Maybe it''s something you''re interested in organizing or contributing to. On 9/1/06, Richard Conroy <richard.conroy-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> wrote:> > > On 8/31/06, Brian Hogan <bphogan-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> wrote: > > @Richard: > > Slightly OT > > > > If a company is going to use Rails then they are going to invest in the > > infrastructure to deploy Rails applications which means they will > install > > Ruby and dependencies. Specific gems and versions of Rails can be > packaged > > (frozen) with the application. > > Brian, > I probably wasn''t fully clear about what I meant. I am talking precisely > about > situations where a company manufactures software for general consumption, > or for a specific company, and the technology that it is implemented in is > > practically invisible to the target consumer. > -its got a web interface > -you install it on a server > Its highly desirable in these cases to minimally impact the user during > setup, > and quietly sort out the application dependencies. It may ultimately be a > .NET, Java or Rails app, but the user just clicks through the install > of the CLR, > JRE or Ruby Interpreter and other binaries. > > > Applications can be distributed as GEMs or (much better in my opinion) > > distributed into production by automated builds from a version control > > system. Automatied processes are better because they''re less prone to > error. > > I am talking about scenarios where the comsumer of the software doesn''t > have access to your source. You also don''t want the customers first > exposure to Ruby Gems to be in your install procedure. > > > The point is that in order for Rails to succeed, the PEOPLE and > PROCESSES > > have to change. It''s not Rails'' fault that an organization has certain > > requirements on deployment. Rails can work very well in the enterprise > and > > deployment is very easy once you lay the groundwork. > > You shouldn''t have to boil the ocean. I don''t see why customers should > shoulder > the effort of getting our product to work, if we write it in Rails. > > But mostly I am trying to figure out why this is difficult to do or > even contentious. > Your application requires certain dependencies, so you wrap it all up > in something > that conveniently deploys them. > > Sure, deploying to the web requires specialist knowledge, and that kind of > handholding is a nuisance there. > > My intended use of Rails (to make management software) is pretty > remote from its original intended use. But I don''t think it is > incompatible. There would be a higher > proportion of pure Ruby code than a ''classic'' Rails app for example, > but the performance > requirements are much lower. > > But I need to get around this deployment hump. Good guidelines for doing > this > would really help: how to package your Rails app in a single setup > (like a shrinkwrap > or downloadable app) and how to update the setup would be good ideas for a > > Rails deployment book. > > > >--~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---