zfs discuss - Nov 2006 - Tired of VxVM - too many issues and too $$$$ - Maybe ZFS as alternative

I''ve got a question about using ZFS in an environment with the
following attributes:

* Thousands of LUNs visible to several hundred servers.  
* Each server typically has 3-4 unique file systems mounted.
* File system "failover" is controlled manually by administrators

Looking to get away from VxVM and use SVM on book disks, PowerPath will continue
to be used (EMC storage), and use ZFS on the SAN LUNs.

Looking to see what folks think about using ZFS as a replacement for VxVM.  I
understand ZFS performance would need to be evaluated - this question is more
about VxVM takeout in an environment with the above attributes.
 
 
This message posted from opensolaris.org

Correction on some facts:

* File system "failover" is controlled manually by administrators

The above is not correct.  VCS is being used to failover services between
servers including existing VxFS file systems.  So I guess some more questions
are in order:

* Is ZFS certified with VCS ?
* When is ZFS import/export feature set coming ?

Now that I''m reading a bit on ZFS - I get the feeling ZFS
isn''t yet ready for replacing VxVM/VxFS in a VCS environment.  Am I
reading this right ?
 
 
This message posted from opensolaris.org

zfs  is not cluster aware at this point. This includes VCS and SunCluster.

On 11/21/06, Sean O''Neill <sean.w.oneill at sun.com>
wrote:
>
> Correction on some facts:
>
> * File system "failover" is controlled manually by administrators
>
> The above is not correct.  VCS is being used to failover services between
> servers including existing VxFS file systems.  So I guess some more
> questions are in order:
>
> * Is ZFS certified with VCS ?
> * When is ZFS import/export feature set coming ?
>
> Now that I''m reading a bit on ZFS - I get the feeling ZFS
isn''t yet ready
> for replacing VxVM/VxFS in a VCS environment.  Am I reading this right ?
>
>
> This message posted from opensolaris.org
> _______________________________________________
> zfs-discuss mailing list
> zfs-discuss at opensolaris.org
> http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
>
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Nicholas Senedzuk wrote:
> zfs  is not cluster aware at this point. This includes VCS and SunCluster.
Neither is UFS, yet we use that quite often :-)
> On 11/21/06, *Sean O''Neill* <sean.w.oneill at sun.com 
> <mailto:sean.w.oneill at sun.com>> wrote:
> 
>     Correction on some facts:
> 
>     * File system "failover" is controlled manually by
administrators
I''ve lost some of the context here, but for "failover" file
systems,
sometimes called HA file systems, the failover can be automatic (by
policy) or manual.  Since the manual process is not very interesting,
we usually worry about the policies.  For both Sun Cluster and VCS,
several policy choices are available.
>     The above is not correct.  VCS is being used to failover services
>     between servers including existing VxFS file systems.  So I guess
>     some more questions are in order:
> 
>     * Is ZFS certified with VCS ?
This is a question for Symantec.  I did a search for ZFS on their
website, but got no hits.  Perhaps a VCS enthusiast is lurking who
can answer this question.
>     * When is ZFS import/export feature set coming ?
It already exists, see zpool(1m)
This is what Sun Cluster uses for implementing ZFS as a failover file
system.
>     Now that I''m reading a bit on ZFS - I get the feeling ZFS
isn''t yet
>     ready for replacing VxVM/VxFS in a VCS environment.  Am I reading
>     this right ?
For Sun Cluster fans, ZFS support is coming in release 3.2 which is due
RSN.
  -- richard

On 11/21/06, Richard Elling <Richard.Elling at sun.com>
wrote:
>
> Nicholas Senedzuk wrote:
> > zfs  is not cluster aware at this point. This includes VCS and
> SunCluster.
>
> Neither is UFS, yet we use that quite often :-)
>
> > On 11/21/06, *Sean O''Neill* <sean.w.oneill at sun.com
> > <mailto:sean.w.oneill at sun.com>> wrote:
> >
> >     Correction on some facts:
> >
> >     * File system "failover" is controlled manually by
administrators
>
> I''ve lost some of the context here, but for "failover"
file systems,
> sometimes called HA file systems, the failover can be automatic (by
> policy) or manual.  Since the manual process is not very interesting,
> we usually worry about the policies.  For both Sun Cluster and VCS,
> several policy choices are available.
>
> >     The above is not correct.  VCS is being used to failover services
> >     between servers including existing VxFS file systems.  So I guess
> >     some more questions are in order:
> >
> >     * Is ZFS certified with VCS ?
>
> This is a question for Symantec.  I did a search for ZFS on their
> website, but got no hits.  Perhaps a VCS enthusiast is lurking who
> can answer this question.

VCS does not support ZFS at this point as stated above.
>     * When is ZFS import/export feature set coming ?
>
> It already exists, see zpool(1m)
> This is what Sun Cluster uses for implementing ZFS as a failover file
> system.
>
> >     Now that I''m reading a bit on ZFS - I get the feeling ZFS
isn''t yet
> >     ready for replacing VxVM/VxFS in a VCS environment.  Am I reading
> >     this right ?
>
> For Sun Cluster fans, ZFS support is coming in release 3.2 which is due
> RSN.
>   -- richard
>
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Sean O''Neill wrote:
> Correction on some facts:
> 
> * File system "failover" is controlled manually by administrators
> 
> The above is not correct.  VCS is being used to failover services between
servers including existing VxFS file systems.  So I guess some more questions
are in order:
Sun Cluster 3.2 will manage ZFS as a fail-over file system.  It is due 
out in December this year.
-- 
	--Ed

> * When is ZFS import/export feature set coming ?
This has been in place for some time now. Are you sure it''s the
import/export functions you are thinking about?

Rainer
 
 
This message posted from opensolaris.org

Hello Sean,

Tuesday, November 21, 2006, 6:07:42 PM, you wrote:

SON> Correction on some facts:

SON> * File system "failover" is controlled manually by
administrators

SON> The above is not correct.  VCS is being used to failover
SON> services between servers including existing VxFS file systems. 
SON> So I guess some more questions are in order:

SON> * Is ZFS certified with VCS ?

No, it''s not.
There was manager responsible for VCS at one on the LISA''s BoF session
and while asked by me about VCS support for ZFS he said it would be
fairly easy to add but he didn''t offer any time frames. I also got
impression they are not actually working on it right now.

However as others pointed out Sun Cluster 3.2 will have ZFS support (I
do have already some SC3.2 beta installations with ZFS - works great).

However changing not only VxVM to ZFS but also VCS to SC would be too
much I guess :) I guess it would be the best to file RFE in Veritas
(sorry, Symantec) for ZFS support in VCS.


SON> * When is ZFS import/export feature set coming ?

????


SON> Now that I''m reading a bit on ZFS - I get the feeling ZFS
isn''t
SON> yet ready for replacing VxVM/VxFS in a VCS environment.  Am I reading
this right ?

Unfortunately you are correct.

-- 
Best regards,
 Robert                            mailto:rmilkowski at task.gda.pl
                                       http://milek.blogspot.com